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[Black Widow Void]

But some of my favorite posters only became that after they challenged me directly.

They called me out personally, and showed a set of nuts. I respect that more than any generic game advice.

I wish that more people shared this mindset. We all (self included) can become full of ourselves and have our own personal set of bias's. How else do we learn, evolve and grow... if not being called out.

It's no secret that I do a bit of calling out on this forum. When doing so, I cite previous examples of behavior. If someone simply shoots off simpleton phrases toward someone like "you're an idiot" etc... they've failed to prove their case and become their own worst liability.

 

[user43770]

I wish that more people shared this mindset. We all (self included) can become full of ourselves and have our own personal set of bias's. How else do we learn, evolve and grow... if not being called out.

It's no secret that I do a bit of calling out on this forum. When doing so, I cite previous examples of behavior. If someone simply shoots off simpleton phrases toward someone like "you're an idiot" etc... they've failed to prove their case and become their own worst liability.

I like to challenge manhood on this forum for no reason. Only the most prominent posters, of course. I don't pick on newbies.

Most of them respond in kind. Some of them I PM with. Some of them also put me on ignore.

If they put you on ignore, you know they're soft in the middle.

 

[Atom Smasher]

But some of my favorite posters only became that after they challenged me directly.

They called me out personally, and showed a set of nuts. I respect that more than any generic game advice.

No one ever got banned for challenging anyone directly. That's called discussion.

 

[user43770]

No one ever got banned for challenging anyone directly. That's called discussion.

Right. So I can hardly figure what spaz did, as he was never one for base insults.

 

[user43770]

@Atom Smasher @Who Dares Win

You know, one time i tried to hurt his feelings by making fun of his ancestors or something like it.

Didn't phase him.

I took something personal about him that I'd picked up off the forum, because he posts a lot, and attacked him with it. Water off his fvcking back.

And i'm a good troll...

So to tell me that you have a good reason to ban a guy like that?

 

[Black Widow Void]

Right. So I can hardly figure what spaz did, as he was never one for base insults.

I'd beg to differ on this one. Usually, I'd cite reasons to substantiate my claim. However... because he's banned, this means that he could read this posting, but be unable to respond and defend himself. Therefor, I'll just say that I won't miss him.

 

[TheProspect]

You can challenge someone and call out their ideas or behaviour without disparaging and personally attacking them.

You can also exercise discipline when dealing with hostility and personal attacks are thrown your way by de-escalation. A skill that many here seem to either lack or simply appear uninterested in learning.

We have choices:

a) We can artfully criticize ideas. This promotes constructive discourse.

b) We can also choose to instead attack character. This causes defensiveness and high school drama ensues.

One choice requires maturity, the other a fragile ego. One choice requires poise, the other a lack of tact and self-restraint.


Often times, we react emotionally to what we read on here. As a result, we respond emotionally. Our responses conflate ideas with character, and our criticisms of ideas include well-dressed personal attacks of character.

A lot of times there is no ill-intention deep down in us, and it's merely an inability to articulate are own ideas and perhaps we never learned how to communicate effectively...

Luckily, this is an internet forum, not a high school...

There is a buffer between what we read and how we choose to respond. Our first gut response likely won't be our most effective one.

In-person we lack the buffer and discretion to craft an eloquent response. Here, we have more space to moderate our reactions and subsequent behaviours and, therefore, less excuses when we fail to do so.

If we repeatedly demonstrate we are unable or unwilling to moderate our own behaviours on this forum, the moderators will have to step in and do the moderating on our behalf.

 

[user43770]

I'd beg to differ on this one. Usually, I'd cite reasons to substantiate my claim. However... because he's banned, this means that he could read this posting, but be unable to respond and defend himself. Therefor, I'll just say that I won't miss him.

Well, I just mentioned how I hit him below the belt, probably worse than you could.

So feel free

 

[TheProspect]

To build upon my last post and to add another perspective,

Again, this is an internet forum, not a high school.

We should remember that most people reading this forum aren’t registered members, rather just lurkers who visit for the content.

This means when we engage in discussion with other members, our conversations are not strictly an isolated dialogue without external eyes. Instead, there are observers –– a spectating audience.

When an audience observes a discussion or a debate, it is fairly easy for them to pick up on emotional language and hostility.

In the eyes of an audience, nothing hurts the persuasiveness of our arguments more than us showing a lack of composure via personal insults aimed at our opponent.

Even if we feel like we can’t break through to the person we are aiming our response at, we should avoid personalizing our responses out of frustration. Instead, we should look at the bigger picture and understand that our sphere of influence extends beyond just that of who we are responding to, it extends to all readers of this forum — to our audience.

This means acknowledging your part in recognizing hostility not only in yourself, but also in the other, and attempting to de-escalate situation for the sake of civil discourse and a fruitful conversation for all readers.

I find the following quote holds a lot of truth,

“Insults are the last resort of insecure people with a crumbling position trying to appear confident.”

 

[TheProspect]

I didn't realized Spaz got banned. Is it permanent? I think the timing is kind of odd. But now out of nowhere he's banned.

His ban is not permanent.

Before I was a moderator, I used to think the timing of many bans were odd myself and seemingly out of nowhere too.

However, I learned there is actually a lot of discussion between the moderators that goes on before anyone is actually banned. We wait for input from ALL moderators before making a final decision. This process can take awhile, even weeks, and is why there is usually a gap between the latest offence and the actual banning itself.

Before any established member is banned, they are warned MULTIPLE times before a ban is issued.

People may not agree with the interpretation and enforcement of the rules by some or all of the moderation team, but they can rest assure no established member is hastily banned without being given multiple chances to reform the offending behaviour.

 

[user43770]

You can challenge someone and call out their ideas or behaviour without disparaging and personally attacking them.

You can also exercise discipline when dealing with hostility and personal attacks are thrown your way by de-escalation. A skill that many here seem to either lack or simply appear uninterested in learning.

We have choices:

a) We can artfully criticize ideas. This promotes constructive discourse.

b) We can also choose to instead attack character. This causes defensiveness and high school drama ensues.

One choice requires maturity, the other a fragile ego. One choice requires poise, the other a lack of tact and self-restraint.


Often times, we react emotionally to what we read on here. As a result, we respond emotionally. Our responses conflate ideas with character, and our criticisms of ideas include well-dressed personal attacks of character.

A lot of times there is no ill-intention deep down in us, and it's merely an inability to articulate are own ideas and perhaps we never learned how to communicate effectively...

Luckily, this is an internet forum, not a high school...

There is a buffer between what we read and how we choose to respond. Our first gut response likely won't be our most effective one.

In-person we lack the buffer and discretion to craft an eloquent response. Here, we have more space to moderate our reactions and subsequent behaviours and, therefore, less excuses when we fail to do so.

If we repeatedly demonstrate we are unable or unwilling to moderate our own behaviours on this forum, the moderators will have to step in and do the moderating on our behalf.

Is this copy and pasted from the HR department?

You're obviously Alan.

I'd like to thank you for keeping this forum open. I've tried to offer you money before, but you refused it through you people.

I wish I had something bad to say about the mods, while I have your ear.

But I don't.

 

[user43770]

@TheProspect While I have your ear, why did spaz get banned?

 

[TheProspect]

Right. So I can hardly figure what spaz did, as he was never one for base insults.

@TheProspect While I have your ear, why did spaz get banned?

Spaz has been banned before. He has also been warned at least a half dozen times since then.

Spaz knows the rules. Spaz also knows the intention of many of his posts are to get a rise out of people.

He is usually very subtle with his attacks, but they are attacks nonetheless.

Being clever with your bullying doesn’t make you fly under the mod’s radar.

Following around other members in multiple threads in order to bait them into reactive bickering is harassment, not to mention it derails the thread.

Spaz has been a provocateur, albeit a sly one.

However, being slick doesn't make you above the rules.

Per the forum rules:

* If you insult, harass, or disrespect any member of this forum, you will be banned from the forum.

* Please do not reply to insulting, harassing, or disrespectful posts from another member -- this simply escalates the problem. Contact a moderator who will review the offending message and take the appropriate action.

Hope that wasn't unclear.

 

[user43770]

Spaz has been banned before. He has also been warned at least a half dozen times since then.

Spaz knows the rules. Spaz also knows the intention of many of his posts are to get a rise out of people.

He is usually very subtle with his attacks, but they are attacks nonetheless.

Being clever with your bullying doesn’t make you fly under the mod’s radar.

Following around other members in multiple threads in order to bait them into reactive bickering is harassment, not to mention it derails the thread.

Spaz has been a provocateur, albeit a sly one.

However, being slick doesn't make you above the rules.

Per the forum rules:



Hope that wasn't unclear.

Really?

Come on, bro.

Most times with younger posters you have to give them the cold shoulder. Just so they can get in check.

This is par for the course. And if you want to ban someone, might as well ban all the seasoned vets, because none of them are prim and proper.

And if they're worth a sh2t, they haze newbies to a certain degree

 

[TheProspect]

@samspade , you made a lot good of points that I agree with.

Yeah he got under my skin once or twice, but I see it as more my fault than his if I got into a pissing match with him. Really he's just testing everyone's frame - but some guys think their internet forum honor is at stake and get into it with him.

Very well put. I think that's exactly it.

On this forum, if you are being provoked by an instigator the best thing you can do is ignore them via the ignore feature or using some discipline by restraining yourself from being pulled into a trivial and off-topic squabble.

As you pointed out, some guys get absorbed in their online identities and how others perceive them –– despite the dynamic being an online internet forum with rules and not a college fraternity in the flesh.

I don't see the quintessential Don Juan hazing others and provoking flame wars on the internet.

To be frank, personally, I wasn't fond of Spaz at first, but he's grown on me over the years and I don't mind him at all now.

 

[TheProspect]

I also agree that Spaz does have a knack for testing the frame of others, and I think there can be utility in doing so in some cases.

However, we need to be mindful not to look at the behaviour of Spaz from a single perspective.

Let's for a moment grant that his hazing and frame-testing can provide some form of benefit for his target.

Perhaps there can be value in his behaviour if it causes introspection in his target, or his target gets an opportunity to practice holding frame.

If true, does this hazing behaviour still offer a net benefit or net positive contribution to the forum overall?

I would argue no.

For 3 reasons,

1) It's off-topic, derails the thread, and offers no contribution to the original post. Think of the audience and posters actually interested in the discussion and not the bickering.

2) If his targets fail to introspect or hold frame, it hurts the forum. Not everyone is going to respond the same when Spaz harasses them. In other words, his behaviour will not provide utility for everyone, and it hurts the forum when it fails to do so. See point #1.

3) It's against the forum rules. Being intentionally more clever and discreet with breaking the rules does not mean they don't apply to Spaz. Breaking the rules in order to teach someone a lesson or give them value in an unorthodox way does not make Spaz an exception to those rules.

Just my 2 cents, I'm sure both mods and members alike may feel differently.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Right. So I can hardly figure what spaz did, as he was never one for base insults.

How is this any of your business? You are completely in the dark about how and why Spaz got himself banned. Are you somehow special in that you have a right to demand to know what happened with Spaz and the mods so that you can pass a judgment as to whether the mods made a proper decision or not?

Some of you guys need to pick yourselves up by your bootstraps, lose your obsession with how and why any member has been banned, and participate productively in the forum.

By the way, I get the sense that a lot you haven’t yet realized that I stepped down from modding. Everything is fine... I just need to devote more time to other aspects of life.

I myself have no idea under the sun why Spaz was banned. He and I always get along just fine, but I trust that the mods had to deal with a situation and that they carefully discussed said situation and made the best decision for the benefit of the forum.

 

[user43770]

How is this any of your business? You are completely in the dark about how and why Spaz got himself banned. Are you somehow special in that you have a right to demand to know what happened with Spaz and the mods so that you can pass a judgment as to whether the mods made a proper decision or not?

Some of you guys need to pick yourselves up by your bootstraps, lose your obsession with how and why any member has been banned, and participate productively in the forum.

By the way, I get the sense that a lot you haven’t yet realized that I stepped down from modding. Everything is fine... I just need to devote more time to other aspects of life.

I myself have no idea under the sun why Spaz was banned. He and I always get along just fine, but I trust that the mods had to deal with a situation and that they carefully discussed said situation and made the best decision for the benefit of the forum.

What business is it of yours what business it is of mine?

Spaz is a long-time poster that has benefited the forum more than you or Alan ever have, to be honest; he pretty much carried the forum for about a year........ @TheProspect

I didn't know you weren't a mod anymore. That sucks. You were a good one.

But you were no @Spaz

 

[user43770]

I also agree that Spaz does have a knack for testing the frame of others, and I think there can be utility in doing so in some cases.

However, we need to be mindful not to look at the behaviour of Spaz from a single perspective.

Let's for a moment grant that his hazing and frame-testing can provide some form of benefit for his target.

Perhaps there can be value in his behaviour if it causes introspection in his target, or his target gets an opportunity to practice holding frame.

If true, does this hazing behaviour still offer a net benefit or net positive contribution to the forum overall?

I would argue no.

For 3 reasons,

1) It's off-topic, derails the thread, and offers no contribution to the original post. Think of the audience and posters actually interested in the discussion and not the bickering.

2) If his targets fail to introspect or hold frame, it hurts the forum. Not everyone is going to respond the same when Spaz harasses them. In other words, his behaviour will not provide utility for everyone, and it hurts the forum when it fails to do so. See point #1.

3) It's against the forum rules. Being intentionally more clever and discreet with breaking the rules does not mean they don't apply to Spaz. Breaking the rules in order to teach someone a lesson or give them value in an unorthodox way does not make Spaz an exception to those rules.

Just my 2 cents, I'm sure both mods and members alike may feel differently.

I don't think you realize how important divisive posters are.

When the forum becomes a boring circle jerk, I bet you see a drop in hits.

I'm sure you're having to weigh this against being considered a "red-pill" forum, which is taboo.

I don't envy you, by any means

 

[Atom Smasher]

What business is it of yours what business it is of mine?

Spaz is a long-time poster that has benefited the forum more than you or Alan ever have, to be honest; he pretty much carried the forum for about a year........ @TheProspect

I didn't know you weren't a mod anymore. That sucks. You were a good one.

But you were no @Spaz

Gentlemen, I think we are witnessing a bromance here.