If I don't make my intentions clear, I'm a friend. If I do, I'm a creep. What the hell is going on?

[andreihaha]

OP you are stressing yourself too much. And that is why you fail.
If you're naturally direct be direct. Make your intentions clear. If a woman is blaming you for being direct, she wasn't interested in the first place.
But don't confuse blaming with teasing. Most women I meet tell me I'm direct, but they like it.
So stop caring so much, be yourself but with a little bit of diplomacy. Remember you are still a stranger to them.

Leaving that aside, I agree with stormrider on this, you're better off meeting women naturally in your environment. You gotta work a bit to get there, but it's all easy after that. Your decision.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

You haven't answered the questions some others have asked, specific to exactly what you are doing on a cold approach so it's difficult to give you specific advice. But in that void, and assuming you are truly asking the question in hopes of improving, here is my input.

Cold approaching is not normal for women. It is always strange for them when a man approaches her out of the blue and starts talking to her. She will always be on edge. You must be aware of this, and communicating to her that you are aware of this immediately takes the pressure off and increases the chances of having a good interaction with her. The biggest thing women don't like is not knowing why you are talking to her - is he going to ask me for money, is he a freak who's going to say he wants to eat whip cream out of my a$$, is he just plain retarded, what's going on here? The worst is when the man is attracted to her but just starts random conversation looking for an invitation. Inside she is hoping he gets to the point so she knows how to process the interaction.

If a girl is in a hurry or the situation is one in which it just wouldn't make normal sense to start a conversation with a stranger, I will be direct. "Hey, I know this is a bit weird to walk up to a stranger like this, but you looked so cute in that jacket and boots that I just had to come and meet you." They will likely look at you wide-eyed in sheer terror during the first few words, as they would to any strange man who marched right up to them out of the blue, but you can literally see their eyes melt and their shoulders lower and their lips crack a smile as they breathe a sigh of relief when you quickly explain that you A: Know this IS unusual and B: Think they are hot and are trying to have a conversation with them for that reason. If they aren't into it and think you are a "creep", it doesn't mean you are a creep it simply means they aren't attracted to you. Creep is a really sad word that women use to insult a man for doing nothing wrong. Actually it used to mean a man who wouldn't take no for an answer but now it's been expanded to mean a man who had the audacity to hit on a girl who thinks she is way out of his league. Her problem, not yours.

If a girl is in a situation where conversation doesn't seem like that strange of a deal, it's ok to be indirect. Two examples where I went indirect:
1. At the grocery store looking at the high-end organic nut-butters. Obviously we are both health conscious so we have that in common so I said, "It's so hard to find ones without sugar in them" and she agreed and then started up a great conversation with me. After 10 long but fun minutes, I asked her out to coffee and we exchanged numbers. Dated her for several months. 23 years old. Beautiful.
2. Waiting on the train platform, saw a 25yo girl reading a book. Walked up to her and asked her about the book she was reading. She was a captive audience, bored waiting for the train. Nowhere to go. Plenty of people around to provide comfort. Had a great conversation until the train came, and then sat next to her and continued the conversation for another half hour. We connected on FB and a couple hours later she DM'd me thanking me for approaching her and talking to her and that it made her whole day.


The more specifics you can share about what you are doing on your cold approaches, where you are doing it, what you are saying, what you are like generally (looks and style and demeanor), and what the women look like and their age, the more we will be able to help - assuming you actually want it.

 

[sangheilios]

@oldmanofthesea Brings up some valid points about cold approaching. It is in fact a bit unnatural, men and women never really met each other this way. I've asked women about this and they said that being cold approached by a man makes them feel a bit uneasy simply because he is a stranger and they know nothing of his intentions. It's not necessarily creepy to approach an attractive woman sitting on a bench eating lunch at the mall, but from her perspective she's in an uncomfortable situation with this stranger.

I think a lot of this will revolve around how you go about cold approaching, there is most certainly a right and wrong way to do this. I think when it does come across as creepy is when the man is approaching her in an inappropriate manner, perhaps in an environment or setting where it is uncalled for. I think the best way to describe this would more or less imply being socially awkward. I'm not going to go into more obvious situations, like not approaching a woman sitting at the bus stop at night.

Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but you need to realize that cold approaching is going to have a much lower success rate compared to meeting women in a more natural manner. Again, there is nothing wrong with cold approaching, but if this is really your only means of meeting women you are going to be striking out A LOT.

 

[SW15]

@oldmanofthesea Brings up some valid points about cold approaching. It is in fact a bit unnatural, men and women never really met each other this way. I've asked women about this and they said that being cold approached by a man makes them feel a bit uneasy simply because he is a stranger and they know nothing of his intentions. It's not necessarily creepy to approach an attractive woman sitting on a bench eating lunch at the mall, but from her perspective she's in an uncomfortable situation with this stranger.

I think app swiping is more unnatural than walking up to someone in person and starting a conversation. Cold approaching existed many centuries before app swiping existed. Yet now there's a perception that app swiping is normal and cold approaching is weird and creepy.

I think a lot of this will revolve around how you go about cold approaching, there is most certainly a right and wrong way to do this. I think when it does come across as creepy is when the man is approaching her in an inappropriate manner, perhaps in an environment or setting where it is uncalled for. I think the best way to describe this would more or less imply being socially awkward. I'm not going to go into more obvious situations, like not approaching a woman sitting at the bus stop at night.

Social skills and understanding social dynamics are huge assets in cold approaching.

Also, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but you need to realize that cold approaching is going to have a much lower success rate compared to meeting women in a more natural manner. Again, there is nothing wrong with cold approaching, but if this is really your only means of meeting women you are going to be striking out A LOT.

Yes, cold approaching will not work as well as having a social circle through meeting people in activities or through mutual friends/acquaintances. If you are in the same fitness class or co-ed sports league, you're going to have to walk up to a woman and break the ice. Even at a private residence party when people know each other, the man will still need to break the ice and make the introduction in a lot of cases.

COVID has ruined a lot of these options at the moment.

 

[Deep State]

Yes, cold approaching will not work as well as having a social circle through meeting people in activities or through mutual friends/acquaintances. If you are in the same fitness class or co-ed sports league, you're going to have to walk up to a woman and break the ice. Even at a private residence party when people know each other, the man will still need to break the ice and make the introduction in a lot of cases.

Exactly. This is why guys need to learn cold approach.
1) if you do it right, you may have more successes and fewer rejections than you might think
2) more importantly, you'll gain experience and confidence so that everything will feel and be natural when you talk to that girl in your yoga class or at the house party

oldmanofthesea has two nice examples above, the nut butter and book on a train approaches are great. If you can handle approaches like those, you'll do just fine once you find some nice social circles.

also, be sure to read this to understand what cold approaches should look like:
Rejection collection: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/rejection-collection.16725/

 

[bat soup]

If you don't make your intentions clear, you're wasting your own time. Women will use your hesitancy to string you along and take advantage of you. If you do make your intentions clear and escalate, you'll find out whether or not she's interested and if she's not interested (for example, she calls you a creep) you'll be able to quickly ditch her and move on to the next woman.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yeah not only fvcks. Being pushy and ****y made them act more feminine/compliant. Or maybe the **** tests i passed made them act like this.
Not all girls throw themselves at you if you aren't a model or something.

A model or socially proofed. They see and value those social matrices. It's like a drug.

 

[bat soup]

I think app swiping is more unnatural than walking up to someone in person and starting a conversation. Cold approaching existed many centuries before app swiping existed. Yet now there's a perception that app swiping is normal and cold approaching is weird and creepy.

Social skills and understanding social dynamics are huge assets in cold approaching.

Yes, cold approaching will not work as well as having a social circle through meeting people in activities or through mutual friends/acquaintances. If you are in the same fitness class or co-ed sports league, you're going to have to walk up to a woman and break the ice. Even at a private residence party when people know each other, the man will still need to break the ice and make the introduction in a lot of cases.

COVID has ruined a lot of these options at the moment.

The app swiping culture really does more harm than good, in my opinion. It gives women attention and makes them feel that they have infinite options, without them having to do anything (such as develop a personality and some attractive traits, for example). For men it makes them feel like they're taking action and getting continuously rejected, when in reality they're not taking any action and most of the women they swipe on don't even see them.

The ability to be able to talk to women and be able to face rejection is more important than anything else for a man. For women, it's easy mode until they're 30 and then downhill from there.

 

[zinc4]

PUA is mostly dead. Girls have 100's of guys in their phones who are better looking than you & socially verified

The Internet gives them all the validation they need. So you being forward with her only confirms what she already knows

Couple that, with street interactions now deemed as sexual harassment issues in the MeToo era, you'll start to understand the game is totally rigged towards the women

They do the choosing now, not you. All you can do, is learn to become their best choice

Agreed 100 percent. Cold approach is nothing like it was even 10 years ago much less 15 or 20.

Cold approaching was pretty epic back in the days before social media.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You haven't answered the questions some others have asked, specific to exactly what you are doing on a cold approach so it's difficult to give you specific advice. But in that void, and assuming you are truly asking the question in hopes of improving, here is my input.

Cold approaching is not normal for women. It is always strange for them when a man approaches her out of the blue and starts talking to her. She will always be on edge. You must be aware of this, and communicating to her that you are aware of this immediately takes the pressure off and increases the chances of having a good interaction with her. The biggest thing women don't like is not knowing why you are talking to her - is he going to ask me for money, is he a freak who's going to say he wants to eat whip cream out of my a$$, is he just plain retarded, what's going on here? The worst is when the man is attracted to her but just starts random conversation looking for an invitation. Inside she is hoping he gets to the point so she knows how to process the interaction.

If a girl is in a hurry or the situation is one in which it just wouldn't make normal sense to start a conversation with a stranger, I will be direct. "Hey, I know this is a bit weird to walk up to a stranger like this, but you looked so cute in that jacket and boots that I just had to come and meet you." They will likely look at you wide-eyed in sheer terror during the first few words, as they would to any strange man who marched right up to them out of the blue, but you can literally see their eyes melt and their shoulders lower and their lips crack a smile as they breathe a sigh of relief when you quickly explain that you A: Know this IS unusual and B: Think they are hot and are trying to have a conversation with them for that reason. If they aren't into it and think you are a "creep", it doesn't mean you are a creep it simply means they aren't attracted to you. Creep is a really sad word that women use to insult a man for doing nothing wrong. Actually it used to mean a man who wouldn't take no for an answer but now it's been expanded to mean a man who had the audacity to hit on a girl who thinks she is way out of his league. Her problem, not yours.

If a girl is in a situation where conversation doesn't seem like that strange of a deal, it's ok to be indirect. Two examples where I went indirect:
1. At the grocery store looking at the high-end organic nut-butters. Obviously we are both health conscious so we have that in common so I said, "It's so hard to find ones without sugar in them" and she agreed and then started up a great conversation with me. After 10 long but fun minutes, I asked her out to coffee and we exchanged numbers. Dated her for several months. 23 years old. Beautiful.
2. Waiting on the train platform, saw a 25yo girl reading a book. Walked up to her and asked her about the book she was reading. She was a captive audience, bored waiting for the train. Nowhere to go. Plenty of people around to provide comfort. Had a great conversation until the train came, and then sat next to her and continued the conversation for another half hour. We connected on FB and a couple hours later she DM'd me thanking me for approaching her and talking to her and that it made her whole day.


The more specifics you can share about what you are doing on your cold approaches, where you are doing it, what you are saying, what you are like generally (looks and style and demeanor), and what the women look like and their age, the more we will be able to help - assuming you actually want it.

The problem with cold approaching is most guys are so nervous because in their mind they know what they are wanting to do so it makes things awkward and they likely come off a little weird...

If you just simply went up and started a random conversation with a woman about anything and let it build from there people would likely find a lot more success because THAT type of thing is completely normal.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

The problem with cold approaching is most guys are so nervous because in their mind they know what they are wanting to do so it makes things awkward and they likely come off a little weird...

If you just simply went up and started a random conversation with a woman about anything and let it build from there people would likely find a lot more success because THAT type of thing is completely normal.

Well, I both agree and disagree. I definitely agree with your comment about being nervous and coming off weird. There is nothing worse than someone who seems nervous, approaching a stranger. The stranger will absorb that nervousness and will be 10x more nervous.

As for starting random conversations with women about anything being completely normal, that's where I may disagree a bit. It depends on a lot of factors including where you are. For example, certain cities and certain countries have social norms where strangers almost never talk or make eye contact. In other places, it is the opposite. It also depends on many circumstances such as - what is the woman doing and what are her actions and movements conveying? Does she look like she is in a hurry? Annoyed? Distracted or focused on something?

I've done a LOT of cold approaching and generally speaking, the initial start of the conversation usually comes as a surprise to the woman. She just isn't used to that. But how much of a surprise depends on circumstances - where you are, what you are each doing, and what you say to her. And it isn't always what you think it will be. For example, I was once at an outdoor patio bar on a Sunday afternoon where people were there for a late brunch and drinking. No tables or chairs - just people standing around. This is exactly the kind of environment where people are expected to talk to strangers and interact with members of the opposite sex. I saw a group of 7 or so early 20-something girls talking to each other with no guys around. I look like I'm around 28-30 in a good way, so did not seem out of place if I approached them. I snuck out of the mixed-gender group I was there with, and walked over to the other side of the patio where the girls were. I just walked straight up to them without hesitation and as they noticed me enter their physical space, they stopped talking, their eyes opened really wide like they were shocked and concerned about what was going to happen (really? at a patio bar on a summer afternoon?) and they all just stopped talking and stood there staring at me like deer in the headlights. Given that this was there reaction, I smiled and calmly said, "Excuse me ladies, I don't mean to interrupt your conversation but I couldn't help noticing how cute you all were and I just had to come over here and meet you." They immediately smiled, relaxed, and started flirting with me and pulling me into their conversation. After the conversation got flowing, they were competing for my attention by talking over one another to me. Then they started telling me who in their group was single and trying to set me up with them (I wasn't interested). When I said I had to get back to my friends, two of the girls said, "Hey, thank you for coming over and talking to us - you were really cool to talk to. Usually the only time a guy comes up to talk to us is when he's blind drunk and not even making sense and it's totally awkward." So it really varies from situation to situation.

The girl in the nut-butter isle was a Southern Belle to the core. Loved to jaw. Found out she had just moved to the area for school and had no friends yet so all this worked together in favor of her being extremely receptive. I've had other girls at the grocery store give me one word answers and seem annoyed so I ended the dialogue quickly.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Well, I both agree and disagree. I definitely agree with your comment about being nervous and coming off weird. There is nothing worse than someone who seems nervous, approaching a stranger. The stranger will absorb that nervousness and will be 10x more nervous.

As for starting random conversations with women about anything being completely normal, that's where I may disagree a bit. It depends on a lot of factors including where you are. For example, certain cities and certain countries have social norms where strangers almost never talk or make eye contact. In other places, it is the opposite. It also depends on many circumstances such as - what is the woman doing and what are her actions and movements conveying? Does she look like she is in a hurry? Annoyed? Distracted or focused on something?

I've done a LOT of cold approaching and generally speaking, the initial start of the conversation usually comes as a surprise to the woman. She just isn't used to that. But how much of a surprise depends on circumstances - where you are, what you are each doing, and what you say to her. And it isn't always what you think it will be. For example, I was once at an outdoor patio bar on a Sunday afternoon where people were there for a late brunch and drinking. No tables or chairs - just people standing around. This is exactly the kind of environment where people are expected to talk to strangers and interact with members of the opposite sex. I saw a group of 7 or so early 20-something girls talking to each other with no guys around. I look like I'm around 28-30 in a good way, so did not seem out of place if I approached them. I snuck out of the mixed-gender group I was there with, and walked over to the other side of the patio where the girls were. I just walked straight up to them without hesitation and as they noticed me enter their physical space, they stopped talking, their eyes opened really wide like they were shocked and concerned about what was going to happen (really? at a patio bar on a summer afternoon?) and they all just stopped talking and stood there staring at me like deer in the headlights. Given that this was there reaction, I smiled and calmly said, "Excuse me ladies, I don't mean to interrupt your conversation but I couldn't help noticing how cute you all were and I just had to come over here and meet you." They immediately smiled, relaxed, and started flirting with me and pulling me into their conversation. After the conversation got flowing, they were competing for my attention by talking over one another to me. Then they started telling me who in their group was single and trying to set me up with them (I wasn't interested). When I said I had to get back to my friends, two of the girls said, "Hey, thank you for coming over and talking to us - you were really cool to talk to. Usually the only time a guy comes up to talk to us is when he's blind drunk and not even making sense and it's totally awkward." So it really varies from situation to situation.

The girl in the nut-butter isle was a Southern Belle to the core. Loved to jaw. Found out she had just moved to the area for school and had no friends yet so all this worked together in favor of her being extremely receptive. I've had other girls at the grocery store give me one word answers and seem annoyed so I ended the dialogue quickly.

That is awesome on the patio...a few times in the grocery store I have walked up to a woman in the produce aisles and just grabbed the front of their carts and started walking with me after I struck up a convo...they cracked up laughing and thought it was hilarious...dated one for a few months but she ended up not really being what I was looking for at the time but it definitely can work if you just approach it as having some fun and not worry about the outcome.

 

[Baibars]

Some women are going to be a definite yes. Some a definite no. Most are somewhere between the two.

Every woman is different in what works and what doesn't. Some will even have sex with you even though they aren't really interested. It all depends on the woman and your abilities.

I sent her a quick text a few hours ago to confirm time and place tomorrow. Still no reply from her. This girl is constantly on her phone whenever i see her this must be a sign of low interest. Almost any girl checks her phone every few minutes and she's definitely such a girl. Is this a reason to next or should i just wait and see?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I sent her a quick text a few hours ago to confirm time and place tomorrow. Still no reply from her. This girl is constantly on her phone whenever i see her this must be a sign of low interest. Almost any girl checks her phone every few minutes and she's definitely such a girl. Is this a reason to next or should i just wait and see?

A few hours means low interest? Good lord...settle down. I have a plate that takes 5 or 6 hours at times to get back to me if she is busy at work and there are times I do the same thing. It's called being busy and having other things to do. In her case it is definitely not low interest.

It's prior to a first date so it COULD mean that but why would you automatically jump to that conclusion?

Have you been in contact with her at all prior to today?

 

[Baibars]

A few hours means low interest? Good lord...settle down. I have a plate that takes 5 or 6 hours at times to get back to me if she is busy at work and there are times I do the same thing. It's called being busy and having other things to do. In her case it is definitely not low interest.

It's prior to a first date so it COULD mean that but why would you automatically jump to that conclusion?

Have you been in contact with her at all prior to today?

I dont know her. She is in my class and we exchanged a few words. I asked her out and i set up the date via text that's it. I didnt text her anything than that

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I dont know her. She is in my class and we exchanged a few words. I asked her out and i set up the date via text that's it. I didnt text her anything than that

Not my style and I've always found that my flake rate was a lot higher if I just went ghost til the date.

I typically will send a text here and there throughout the day and it's usually fun and interesting stuff. Flake rate is near zero for me.

 

[Baibars]

Not my style and I've always found that my flake rate was a lot higher if I just went ghost til the date.

I typically will send a text here and there throughout the day and it's usually fun and interesting stuff. Flake rate is near zero for me.

ok.. i guess i try to act alpha btw she just replied '' ok, see you tomorrow '' no smileys nothing.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

ok.. i guess i try to act alpha btw she just replied '' ok, see you tomorrow '' no smileys nothing.

Honestly that stuff is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is getting her in front of you and in today's climate it wil happen far more often if you stay in contact than if you don't. That's just what works for me.

Others might be able to pull it off by going ghost prior to the date but that has never worked well for me. In fact, I fly in the face of many "rules" here because in my experimentation I have found that things work better for ME, by going against many of them. And that is what you need to remember...it doesn't matter what works for someone else, you need to do what works for YOU.

Alpha/beta stuff is way overblown and texting or not texting someone hs nothing to do with that. In addition doing something to try and be alpha is actually beta.

OK, well I guess you will see if she actually meets up with you.

 

[BadBoy89]

I'm a fairly straightforward, "shoot from the hip" kind of person. Always have been.

I would think that with all this "confidence" and "alpha male" gibberish, that that would be a strength. Then why the **** is it more of a hindrance?

Shooting from the hip does not mean a man is alpha. Alpha means living on your own terms.

You have to establish a connection with the girl first, unless you are in a bar and just want to hook up.

I don't think I'm aggressive, I don't think I'm awkward.. or at least any more awkward than anyone else would be on a cold approach (that's what this is about btw.. cold approach). I suppose I'm just.. intense? Is it really bad to be intense?

Its good to be intense with a 30 something year old American woman doctor who hates men. Not good to be intense with a 20 something year old Chinese woman working at a clothing store looking to get married.

In other words, you can’t step to Beyoncé the same way you would step to Lil Kim.

Know your audience.