Anyone pull off LTR without marriage??

[kingvavy]

My LTR is my age and does not want kids. It’s different when your middle aged, divorced with kids vs having never been married, in your late 20s/early 30s in an LTR with a woman who wants kids. My situation works for me. Would not trade it.

Not every marriage ends in divorce but most do. We no longer live in a society that prioritizes the family unit so there you go. Some cultures still do, so if you want to be married, pick one from a conservative culture that values family above all, and for goodness sakes can the opposite sex friendships.

 

[RickTheToad]

What touched a nerve is you're the moderator! Your job is supposed to encourage the flow of conversation and ideas, not provide one word responses akin to what a pouty 12 year old would say. I'm certainly not asking you to agree with my point, but if you're going to shyt on what I say, at least critique it with reason, and in doing so, respond to what the OP is asking. OP was not asking if marriage was a good idea or not. OP was asking if there are ways to sustaining an LTR without having to get married.

This place is supposed to be a place where guys can get solid advice. If you weren't the moderator I wouldn't have given a second of my time replying to your one word, pre-teen response, but given that you bear a certain level of responsibility for how this place functions, you needed a bit of a smack. Stiff upper lip does not mean all the time "dude." There is a time and a place to get mad.

We don't hold people's hands here. We provide truth bombs on how life is. If it's too much for you, or too much in your face, we understand. Truth hurts.

 

[daproest1]

Not yet. The longest I got was 6 years. She pushed for it and the left. They’re brain washed. They don’t want YOU... they want... the thing. On THEIR time. Yours timeline doesn’t matter. The status of wife. The ring. The party. The respect. And then eventually the divorce.

 

[daproest1]

Have to bump this thread. Absolutely a great debate here with a lot of good information. I spent the last 2 hours trying to read through and didn't finish yet. I am exhausted though but I definitely want to keep this discussion going.

For now let me ask what I believe is a very important question and where I'd like to start from.... I believe starting here will allow us to start at the root and grow the discussion into whether or not the institution of marriage is prudent.

Let's put the concept of marriage aside for a moment and pretend it doesn't exist.

Are we as men meant to be with "1" woman for the rest of our lives? - Would love to hear everyone's views!

Naturally, no. But I think if u can pull it off, its worth it.

 

[kingvavy]

We don't hold people's hands here. We provide truth bombs on how life is. If it's too much for you, or too much in your face, we understand. Truth hurts.

Haha, you're pissing up the wrong tree brah. You wouldn't last two seconds living my life. I've lived to write the book on truth bombs. But hey, if you want to keep living at mommy's, and posting about how "all women are this," and "don't get married that," go for it. I've made my LTR 100% work for me (sex and food on demand, loyalty, respect) and made money in the process. Like I said, been married, been divorced, (with kids), and all the hell that that entails, way, way worse than your 'average' divorce. I've lived the darkest side of the 'fairer' sex in ways I hope you never, ever experience. Lost absolutely everything, but found a way to make it all back. Found a solution that works for me and my life. Not 'ridiculous.' Just outside the box thinking, hard life lessons, and hard work. Say hi to your Mom.

 

[RickTheToad]

Haha, you're pissing up the wrong tree brah. You wouldn't last two seconds living my life. I've lived to write the book on truth bombs. But hey, if you want to keep living at mommy's, and posting about how "all women are this," and "don't get married that," go for it. I've made my LTR 100% work for me (sex and food on demand, loyalty, respect) and made money in the process. Like I said, been married, been divorced, (with kids), and all the hell that that entails, way, way worse than your 'average' divorce. I've lived the darkest side of the 'fairer' sex in ways I hope you never, ever experience. Lost absolutely everything, but found a way to make it all back. Found a solution that works for me and my life. Not 'ridiculous.' Just outside the box thinking, hard life lessons, and hard work. Say hi to your Mom.

You bet. You da boss.. err King.

 

[kingvavy]

Now back to the thread...

For me, I managed to make it work by having my LTR live in my investment property. Granted, she's my age, she does not want kids, she's a career woman, and I am divorced with pre-teen kids...( and with a lunatic ex still hell bent on destroying me...) I've had to explain to my LTR from time to time that having separate spaces, but being walking distance away, is what works best for us, and...that it's a deal breaker. I have told her she is free to walk at anytime if she does not dig. We are going on seven years strong.

If your LTR is pushing for marriage, and you don't want to be married, immediately end the relationship for both your sakes. Marriage is the ultimate test of your ability to lead, and given the society we currently live in, it's akin to winning a one on one basketball game with both hands tied behind your back. If marriage is not something you 100% want, you will fail at it and end up miserably divorced.

However, if you truly want to start a family, and marriage is still something you absolutely want:

1. Man up (end your opposite sex friendships), and do not tolerate the same from your bride to be. However if you

2. only date women from conservative cultures that still value the family unit above all, the chances are she will likely only have a steady network of female friends and relatives to begin with. That is a healthy sign.

 

[RickTheToad]

Now back to the thread...

For me, I managed to make it work by having my LTR live in my investment property. Granted, she's my age, she does not want kids, she's a career woman, and I am divorced with pre-teen kids...( and with a lunatic ex still hell bent on destroying me...) I've had to explain to my LTR from time to time that having separate spaces, but being walking distance away, is what works best for us, and...that it's a deal breaker. I have told her she is free to walk at anytime if she does not dig. We are going on seven years strong.

If your LTR is pushing for marriage, and you don't want to be married, immediately end the relationship for both your sakes. Marriage is the ultimate test of your ability to lead, and given the society we currently live in, it's akin to winning a one on one basketball game with both hands tied behind your back. If marriage is not something you 100% want, you will fail at it and end up miserably divorced.

However, if you truly want to start a family, and marriage is still something you absolutely want:

1. Man up (end your opposite sex friendships), and do not tolerate the same from your bride to be. However if you

2. only date women from conservative cultures that still value the family unit above all, the chances are she will likely only have a steady network of female friends and relatives to begin with. That is a healthy sign.

In terms of marriage, this should be discussed in the beginning. Two people can have children without a marriage certificate. Females only push for the marriage certificate because of the extra hold it has on the person with the greater assets. As for having her live in your investment property while you cover the overhead is very blue pilled and beta game. It will not be successful in the end. Why wouldn't she want to stay there if you're covering all the expenses? Is she contributing to the carrying costs for the house? Who's paying the mortgage, property taxes, maintenance, insurance, etc.? Is this a MFH or a SFH?

 

[kingvavy]

Huh? Where do I say that I cover the overhead brah? She pays for everything. i.e mortgage, fees, taxes, insurance. All I do is sit back and make money while enjoying my own space that she visits when I want.

 

[kingvavy]

Have your LTR cover your costs (mortgage, fees, taxes and insurance) but don’t charge her any rent. You’re still making money off the appreciation

If I charge her rent above and beyond my costs, I have to pay tax on the rental income ergo I forgo the net rent...if she decides she does not want to be in an LTR, then yes, I will start charging her the current market rental rate, (and pay the tax...) It’s worked quite well now, going on seven years. She knows I’m giving her a break on the net rent, hence she plays ball. I’m wagering I’ve made more on the condo sitting on my ass than whatever you make in a year.

Like I said, you’re pissing up the wrong tree here pal, but I find it highly entertaining, even when your arguments aren’t even based on things I’ve said or posted.

Got to go, she is asking for sex.

 

[RickTheToad]

If I charge her rent above and beyond my costs, I have to pay tax on the rental income ergo I forgo the net rent...if she decides she does not want to be in an LTR, then yes, I will start charging her the current market rental rate, (and pay the tax...) It’s worked quite well now, going on seven years. She knows I’m giving her a break on the net rent, hence she plays ball. I’m wagering I’ve made more on the condo sitting on my ass than whatever you make in a year.

Like I said, you’re pissing up the wrong tree here pal, but I find it highly entertaining, even when your arguments aren’t even based on things I’ve said or posted.

Got to go, she is asking for sex.

What happens if/when things fall apart and she won't leave or pay the bills for the home? I assume the mort. is in your name. Also, how does one piss up a tree?

I think your responses are very entertaining by the way. Not rational or logical, but very entertaining.

 

[kingvavy]

If we break up and she does not pay, I can evict her. She’s my tenant, not my wife. Like I said, she knows the rent would be 4x what it is if we broke up, so she plays ball. That’s why I don’t charge her above and beyond my costs—leverage. That’s why there is a dinner on my table every night, and more sex than I can handle. That’s why there’s respect. When you get married, you lose the leverage, and with it, the respect.

Re: “piss up a tree”:

 

[Zontyy]

If we break up and she does not pay, I can evict her. She’s my tenant, not my wife. Like I said, she knows the rent would be 4x what it is if we broke up, so she plays ball. That’s why I don’t charge her above and beyond my costs—leverage. That’s why there is a dinner on my table every night, and more sex than I can handle. That’s why there’s respect. When you get married, you lose the leverage, and with it, the respect.

Re: “piss up a tree”:

For me this just seems very transactional like your paying for sex, I get your building equity and all which is a good thing but like you said you could making 4x the rent so all the extra money your losing out on is paying for pu$$y.

I have LTR relationship going with my mother of kid and we are not married, she doesn't want to be married because she lose out on her benefits while being a full time student. I imagine though in 5 more years when she making more money as a nurse practitioner she will push for marriage.

 

[kingvavy]

For me this just seems very transactional like your paying for sex

Sex, food, companionship, loyalty, respect, all while building equity. So what’s your alternative?

If you think marriage is anything but transactional, than you’ve clearly never been married. A man has zero leverage once married, so why do you think this forum is flooded with married guys whining about how she won’t have sex, and she keeps talking to her “guy friends.”

I’m not pulling this off some book written by some new age guru. I lived it man. Years of a sexless marriage, emotional distance followed by the inevitable...she took everything I had. No way I’m going back to that life.

You can talk about your blue and red pills all you want. At the end of the day $=power=respect. Lose the money, you lose the power, you lose the respect.

 

[SW15]

For my friend with the 7 years with the same woman with no marriage, the sex frequency has dropped a lot.

When I think about my social sphere, I'm seeing that it is difficult to go beyond 3-5 years in a relationship and not have at least an engagement in place.

The guy who has gone 7 years in a relationship with no marriage and no immediate indication of marriage is somewhat unusual. They moved in together around the 3 year mark. He wanted to do it sooner, but she postponed it about a year or so. They are renters though so it would be less complicated if things ended now. She's more unconventional about marriage and family than he is. I don't think that's a situation that most men can duplicate. That relationship has also gone down in quality since they moved in together. I often wonder why that's still going on. Inertia and laziness have something to do with it.

I know another man who got to 5 years in his relationship with no marriage. He moved in with her at the 5 year mark, proposed marriage 6 months after moving in, and then got married around their 7 year point in the relationship. They've been together 10 years and married 3 at this point. The most fun points of that relationship are long in the past. I think part of the reason he was able to go as long as he did without moving in or proposing is that they met around their junior-senior years of college, which is roughly age 21. Once they got to the 2nd half of their 20s, it was all about marriage, dogs, and planning to start a family (hasn't happened yet).

There's something I noticed that has happened with couples around ages 26-32 in bigger metro area when they are childless and the participants have a BA/BS degree or higher. Weddings start happening in flurries. There's other anxiety and unnerved feelings around those who aren't married when the marriages start piling up, which can often lead to those on the later end of the timing spectrum on marriages to get into bad marriages due to feelings of immense social pressure.

 

[Zontyy]

Sex, food, companionship, loyalty, respect, all while building equity. So what’s your alternative?

I was thinking about going the Islam approach to be fair. If I can be married to 2 or more women, I basically keep them in competition for my time and feelings etc.. Only one of the marriages is legally recognized in the US while she still needs to follow all the penchants of her home countries culture.

I can understand though from your line of reasoning you have the best for what you want.

 

[kingvavy]

Haha, marriage to two women? That would be a a challenge...I gave up alcohol almost 12 years ago. I’m Catholic, but sometimes I think I would have been a good Muslim. Good luck with your marriage(s). As-salamu alaykum.

 

[RickTheToad]

If we break up and she does not pay, I can evict her. She’s my tenant, not my wife. Like I said, she knows the rent would be 4x what it is if we broke up, so she plays ball. That’s why I don’t charge her above and beyond my costs—leverage. That’s why there is a dinner on my table every night, and more sex than I can handle. That’s why there’s respect. When you get married, you lose the leverage, and with it, the respect.

Re: “piss up a tree”:

You know there's a moratorium on evictions until the end of this year, will most likely be extended through mid-next year. Tread carefully my friend. She has more control over you than you think.

 

[kingvavy]

Thanks for the concern. Even with the moratorium I’m still making money off the appreciation of the condo as condo prices are soaring where I live for some weird reason.

There is no perfect solution. There is no perfect woman. Living and loving life is all about risk management.

 

[RickTheToad]

Thanks for the concern. Even with the moratorium I’m still making money off the appreciation of the condo as condo prices are soaring where I live for some weird reason.

There is no perfect solution. There is no perfect woman. Living and loving life is all about risk management.

I can agree to that.