Anyone here cheap?

[metalwater]

No, respectfully, you are very naive. Allow me to educate you. One cannot acquire real estate property or build a successful business without excellent credit. Example. With credit above 760, one can obtain a mortgage for 30 years on a single family, duplex, triplex or quadplex for under 2%. One lives in one unit and rents the others out. After one year, they can leave that building, rent their unit out and then repeat all over again.

It's how one builds wealth. You are greatly mistaken, so stop passing lies and misgivings.

actually calling a person naive twice on the same topic is not respectful, it is an attempt at something else.

you are wrong, and that is ok. we agree to disagree. the readers can figure out the truth from the info themselves.

one of my largest failings is a deep need, to tell the truth, to the nth degree. calling me a liar is not respectful or necessary, all you should do if being an educated debater or having a respectful different opinion is to present it, period.

I know what I tell on this topic is the truth. what you are telling apart from being disrespectful is also true. I don't discount that a credit score can be leveraged just as you tell. and wealth can be from real estate, I have done some so as to stay balanced. for the self-controlled and the patient person, it can be used to make money just like you tell. the mortgage rates you tell is now; remember the 16 and 18+ % in the past...

This guy explains the concepts better than I do and probably has more cash than many of us put together.
https://www.daveramsey.com/ I don't think you are interested to explore the ideas, but only to try to prevent others from learning the truth about this thing. This guy gets a lot of traction as organizations recommend him to help there teams because finacially stable ppl make better teams of any kind.

the way that the AVERAGE man can build stability and wealth is to control the money they touch and not let it control them, together with planned frugality anyone can advance, a lot. Living to a credit score is playing by rules that are designed for stability, not growth. I am and have not said to go not pay an agreement, I am saying don't live in a credit score as your budjet unless your one of the few that really get it (I think you might be one of those, but are not willing to consider others that don't have your ability).

Peace.. going once....

 

[metalwater]

Yeah Dave Ramsey is a pretty sharp guy. Banking likes to toenail The consumer into a system that is completely detrimental to their survival.

Being in the know how to manage money Is pretty simple when you throw out all the false beliefs they want you to live by.

right; red pill for catagory money.

 

[eli77]

bealls is my best friend

 

[RickTheToad]

The mortgage broker is getting paid by the lender on the back end, and that compensation is not required to be disclosed to you. It is certainly possible to give a broker a big pile of cash and come out with a better deal. He might drop the rate to as low as it gets, the level where the lender does not pay him on the back end. You'll never get that rate without paying up front.

When I first got started in 2012, I had no credit so I used a mortgage broker. CT law states they must disclose their fees at closing. It was a pretty penny plus my rate was 6.67%. After I built my credit I was able to receive mortgage offers from local banks in CT. My highest rate now is 4.17%; and I am selling that building shortly anyway and 1031ing into a different building. My bank doesn't charge any fees aside from underwriting and insurance, which is about 6k. In addition, most of that is credited back to me in incentives from the bank. So, it's a good deal for me.

 

[RickTheToad]

actually calling a person naive twice on the same topic is not respectful, it is an attempt at something else.

you are wrong, and that is ok. we agree to disagree. the readers can figure out the truth from the info themselves.

one of my largest failings is a deep need, to tell the truth, to the nth degree. calling me a liar is not respectful or necessary, all you should do if being an educated debater or having a respectful different opinion is to present it, period.

I know what I tell on this topic is the truth. what you are telling apart from being disrespectful is also true. I don't discount that a credit score can be leveraged just as you tell. and wealth can be from real estate, I have done some so as to stay balanced. for the self-controlled and the patient person, it can be used to make money just like you tell. the mortgage rates you tell is now; remember the 16 and 18+ % in the past...

This guy explains the concepts better than I do and probably has more cash than many of us put together.
https://www.daveramsey.com/ I don't think you are interested to explore the ideas, but only to try to prevent others from learning the truth about this thing. This guy gets a lot of traction as organizations recommend him to help there teams because finacially stable ppl make better teams of any kind.

the way that the AVERAGE man can build stability and wealth is to control the money they touch and not let it control them, together with planned frugality anyone can advance, a lot. Living to a credit score is playing by rules that are designed for stability, not growth. I am and have not said to go not pay an agreement, I am saying don't live in a credit score as your budjet unless your one of the few that really get it (I think you might be one of those, but are not willing to consider others that don't have your ability).

Peace.. going once....

Well, wasn't trying to offend, but you are relaying false information on building wealth. Truth hurts, but if I can help other people avoid bad advise and become financially self-sufficient, then I am good with that. Dave Ramsey is good for getting out of debt, but most people cannot buy homes, investment or otherwise, in cash. The man is worth near 100 million dollars, so I do not think he needs to take out mortgages. Average multi-family in Connecticut is 500k +, and there is no manual underwriting for investment properties.

However, you can believe what you like, but it is factually incorrect on many levels. Continue to have bad credit because you believe bad credit is red pill and good credit is blue pill.

I work as in the emergency room as an registered PA. I make enough off of rent to leave my day job and live off the rent. The depreciation on the investment properties bring my taxes down to basically nothing. So you continue to preach cash and no credit while just kickback and relax whenever I feel I've had enough of the ER (no time soon, but I like to have options).

I've been dirt poor before living in Queens, NY. I refuse to go back to that street mentality. The world runs off credit.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

Pay off one property.
Then pay off the next one.
Then pay off the third one.


you get the pattern....then, in these discussions, you partially agree based on action to reduce debt.

Real wealth=freedom from debt

I know this to be true but have not reached this myself yet, and I'm taking action to pay off debt permanently.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

If you are in debt. You are not free. But then you also have to come up with a different game once that is over.

The most important key here and this is the crux of the condition we all face.

The average person is trapped. Going back to the book “Rich Dad Poor Dad”.
If you get your money AFTER it’s taxed you are in trouble and will always be chasing the prize. You will die always on the edge of starvation. Even the 401K is a scam.

The key is to get your money before it’s taxed. You can use as much money as you want to move your life forward and it’s not taxed. Any of the money you use to survive and do things with is taxed.

Let’s say you buy or build your home. As long as you use it for your primary residence, after two years you can sell it and there is NO capitol gains tax.
Let’s say you build it then claim it as primary residence. As soon as I start a house, I put up a mailbox and go to the post office and have all my mail sent there. Even if it’s just still dirt.
I can sell it right after I get a “Certificate of Occupancy”. So I already have maybe 10-12 months of occupancy When done. So obviously I don’t have two years. I can be charged taxes on all the value I obtained.

so what do I do? I use the tax system. This is called a 1031 exchange. All the money I use for the next house is non taxable because I am exchanging one property for another as my primary residence.
Businessmen and companies use this all the time. It saves their capitol from taxation. A man just working a job is at a massive disadvantage. He can almost never win the game.

Keep your job and sink the hours and time into your game until you can mathematically eliminate your ridiculous job.
You are a worker. A craft skilled producer. You are way ahead of the game.

got a boost here...appreciate the knowledge sharing.

I am simply not used to thinking this way.....I get small flashes of thoughts like 'what do I do with my pays when all debt is gone(dave ramsey step 7; he suggests my income is my best wealth building tool, what does that translate to?)'

I also think about the time I want for myself and how I'm not inclined to run a business that is not passive or some type of angel investing.

Don't have the desire to commit to business and the only leadership I'm comfortable practicing is selfgovernance so being at the helm of a business is out for me.

I like these tax and profitsaving ideas, thanks. Its stimulating some creative problem solving.

 

[RickTheToad]

I think the distinction is how you leverage capital. I've seen both extremes work for those who employ their respective strategies. Some people are all cash, and pay-as-you-go, which is increasingly difficult to replicate, and others borrow everything they use, beat everyone out of every last cent possible, and pay all of their bills(including their employees, in some cases) at the last possible minute before legal action.

Personally, I overpay(not by much) and pay all of my bills early, but I only borrow for business, and primarily only for expansion. It's a slow strategy, somewhere in the middle. I know guys who refuse to ever borrow a penny for anything, and still have the first dollar they ever made, and others who'll probably pay for their own funerals on credit, and late. To each his own.

True on everything you say. However, someone saying that good credit is bad and "beta" is just wrong on so many levels. That is all I am trying to prove.

 

[RickTheToad]

If you are in debt. You are not free. But then you also have to come up with a different game once that is over.

The most important key here and this is the crux of the condition we all face.

The average person is trapped. Going back to the book “Rich Dad Poor Dad”.
If you get your money AFTER it’s taxed you are in trouble and will always be chasing the prize. You will die always on the edge of starvation. Even the 401K is a scam.

The key is to get your money before it’s taxed. You can use as much money as you want to move your life forward and it’s not taxed. Any of the money you use to survive and do things with is taxed.

Let’s say you buy or build your home. As long as you use it for your primary residence, after two years you can sell it and there is NO capitol gains tax.
Let’s say you build it then claim it as primary residence. As soon as I start a house, I put up a mailbox and go to the post office and have all my mail sent there. Even if it’s just still dirt.
I can sell it right after I get a “Certificate of Occupancy”. So I already have maybe 10-12 months of occupancy When done. So obviously I don’t have two years. I can be charged taxes on all the value I obtained.

so what do I do? I use the tax system. This is called a 1031 exchange. All the money I use for the next house is non taxable because I am exchanging one property for another as my primary residence.
Businessmen and companies use this all the time. It saves their capitol from taxation. A man just working a job is at a massive disadvantage. He can almost never win the game.

Keep your job and sink the hours and time into your game until you can mathematically eliminate your ridiculous job.
You are a worker. A craft skilled producer. You are way ahead of the game.

One, the 401k is not a scam. Most employers who offer it is giving the employee free money. Two, Robert Kiosaki, author of the Rich Dad Poor Dad, is a fraud and a fake. Go to the Bigger Pockets forums, a forum which focuses on real estate, and you can see he's a scam. Here's a CBC undercover video showing he's a scam. He's a marketer, not real estate investor.

I already talked about the 1031, and you do not have to wait 2 years to sell or transfer. Yes, you can sell your own private residence every 2 years and it's tax free up to 250k per person (500k for married couples). With a 1031, there is no requirement for this. We're talking two different animals here. I am talking multi-family properties, not single family properties. As for debt, this is all investment debt and I'm paying around inflation for the mortgage. It's little to no risk. I also live in a duplex and my second unit is paying for my rent and expenses for the entire building. I essentially live mort./rent free.

Cannot do this without being very rich or credit. Connecticut is a non-recourse state, so there is little risk. It's all in the buying of the real estate.

 

[RickTheToad]

Go with it. I support everyone in their pursuits. Everyone is entitled to their own mind.

NO. The world runs off of production. No production, no world. Someone must be producing the properties, stuff you buy. The producers make all things possible. Ideas are cheap until someone does the work.

The US used to produce a lot, however, over the past 30 years, the US has turned into a services oriented economy. Whether you build a house or rent out apartments, we provide a service. We do not produce many things for direct US consumption by the end user (consumer).

 

[RickTheToad]

I did not get that conceptual thought when I read it. You saw what you wanted to see because I’m sure you put a significant amount effort to keep your score high. You were invested.

I do not think in extremes. That is feminine. I think with an overall conceptual computation based on the knowledge that I presently have. Anything can change in the future. Good credit doesn’t hurt but a man pursuing good credit so he can buy things is in a trap.

I really do not do much. I have my bills on autopay and I do not even think about it. It's not really hard to keep good or excellent credit. Do not buy what a person cannot pay off in 30 days. It's pretty simple to keep good or excellent credit. Because that allows me to get super low rates and credit credit cards for bonuses are just icing on the cake.

Actual cash in rubber bands is no longer king.

Example. There is a multi-family property I want to buy for 1,000,000. Now, I do not have 1,000,000 in cash. In your cash rich ideal, how do I purchase it with no or bad credit?

 

[RickTheToad]

Oh for crying out loud. Hahahahaha
It is a total scam. A ROTH? Now you’re talking. No taxation. Taxation today before deposit will always be less than when you draw it out.

Don’t think it’s a scam for a good producer? Give me ten grand and watch what happens. The 401K is for the “job” oriented person. The one who will live and die in Their careers oprofession.
They don’t even know that a HUGE part of the return goes to the organization holding the money. It’s not their money.

Im starting to bore. You win. Go about your merry way.

This is not a contest or something to win. You, possibly unknowingly, are passing on incorrect information. My 403b that's is provided by the State of Connecticut has quadrulpled since I opened it many moons ago. My returns are over 87%. My own solo 401k and Roth IRA that I started from my rental side business are up over 60%. I only own Vanguard US Bond, Vanguard S & P Growth Fund and Vanguard International Fund. Nothing special. I am overweight on the S & P Growth Fund though.

I really think you are mistaken in your beliefs.

 

[RickTheToad]

Oh my god. You thought we were talking bands of money. We are talking the same things. Hahaha
You are debating over nothing except your personal opinions. Both sides are right. Different methodologies.

Not really, but it's all good. I was talking about cash in the bank, as in no leverage (mortgage). If you can answer my question on how I can afford to buy the 1,000,000 property using your method, I am all ears in learning something new.

 

[RickTheToad]

We disagree. Let it go. I’m successful and apparently so are you. Live and let live. It’s just your personal “education” that would tell me I’m wrong in a last dying act to be right. Go forth and flourish and prosper. Your goals aren’t anything like mine.

I'm not saying that you aren't. I am just trying to learn new ways to buy properties. Using your methodology, how would I be able to buy the 1,000,000 multifamily without a mortgage?

 

[RickTheToad]

Too simple. Build four at 250,000 profit margin a piece. Pay cash for the 1,000,000.00 house. Own the house outright.

That doesn't work in this scenario. One, the building is already built. Two, you would not be able to build a house for 250k in Connecticut. The land alone would be over 100k in most cases for a tear-down (not in a ghetto).

Your answer does not solve the issue with buying this 1,000,000 property.

Furthermore, a friend who is a builder, rebuilt a four unit building. It cost him 50k in land and for a tear-down building. To build the building cost another 600k in the State of New York. Your numbers do not add up.

 

[Bible_Belt]

When I first got started in 2012, I had no credit so I used a mortgage broker. CT law states they must disclose their fees at closing.

The fees that must be disclosed are the ones you pay on the front end. The lender conpensates the broker on the back end, and those fees are not required to be disclosed. My only point is that a loan app can look like it has no fees, yet the broker makes a nice paycheck off of it.

 

[RickTheToad]

Furthermore, a friend of my rebuilt a four unit building. It cost him 50k in land and for a tear-down building. To build the building cost another 600k in the Stt

The fees that must be disclosed are the ones you pay on the front end. The lender conpensates the broker on the back end, and those fees are not required to be disclosed. My only point is that a loan app can look like it has no fees, yet the broker makes a nice paycheck off of it.

Not talking about the loan app, talking about the closing statement and list of fees. Every state is different.

 

[RickTheToad]

Land here is 200,000.00 for 40 acres. I didn’t say location doesn’t matter. You make your own choices and parameters.
It will work there as well. Just inflate the numbers until it fits. You are your own limiting factor.

look you don’t want new ideas. You will shoot down every idea I bring up because your situation is snowflake special.

this conversation is over. There’s nothing you can learn from me. You already know it all. Go forth. Stop being a dik. I’m not your girlfriend or boyfriend. I’m sure the women you interact with just love that special trait of yours. Lol

I reject your reality. Nuff said.

Yea, I'm not sure where you can by 40 acres for 200k. Must be somewhere in the south or mid-west. I am local, so I do not invest outside of Greater Bridgeport. I know cities in Connecticut and New York, not rural stuff. But hey, if that works for you, then you are ahead of the game. I didn't shoot down your ideas, but they do not work with multi-family investing. No need to take it personally.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Furthermore, a friend of my rebuilt a four unit building. It cost him 50k in land and for a tear-down building. To build the building cost another 600k in the Stt


Not talking about the loan app, talking about the closing statement and list of fees. Every state is different.

We are talking about the same disclosures. Every state can be different, but they tend to follow the same model. What I keep trying to say is that the required disclosures are a joke, because most of the broker's pay check comes from the lender based upon how much above wholesale they quote you on the rate. And that wholesale rate is a secret that only the broker and lender get to know.

 

[RickTheToad]

I’m 30-40 minutes from a major city. People love acreages. Better schools. As I can only put two family dwellings per 40 acres (it’s a matter of water wells) that means it’s 100,000 per home just for the land. Same as you.

About the same for water hook-ups because I have to get the well drilled and them install a reverse osmosis system. you would probably pay between 30,000 to 50,000 for water and sewer hookups to the city systems.
The modern septic systems with aerobic bacteria instead of anerobic systems will last indefinitely with a responsible owner.

so your costs are the same as mine.

All good then. I honestly wish you nothing but the best in building your empire!