Today at the full assembly of the european parliament, they discussed the biggest concern for the union...

[AttackFormation]

Inflation favours debtors, deflation favours creditors and this happens both in micro and macro economy.

With one caveat: the debtors have to actually receive enough of a share of the inflation. If the flow of money only gets sucked up by creditors then the inflation just keeps making them richer, this is the logic behind the QE bailouts for bankers and financial holders. If there is virtually no economic democracy with a population that lives like economic serfs, then the economy favors creditors no matter what.

 

[AttackFormation]

In my opinion a certain degree of inflation is necessary especially when its old retired people who owns their own house and have access to healthcare to be the main holder of liquidity.

Promoting speculation as society's way of saving for social necessities is bad in general (it raises the cost of survival for businesses because they both have to pay more themselves and pay people more to stay alive, and this both reduces the money they can spend on other parts of their budget, reduces their income since other people have less spending power now too, and undercuts them if trade is allowed from economies that aren't based on speculation) and unsustainable over a long enough time scale.

But the real main reason why a certain degree of inflation is necessary, is because private debt created by commercial banks is unsustainable once it gets to a certain % of GDP. If private debt is say 150% of GDP, with a 5% interest rate, and inflation is 2% - that means all the inflation is absorbed just by the interest, the principal can't even begin to be paid off, and the economy is actually deflating towards a greater polarization between creditors and debtors. You have what's called debt deflation.

Today's economic system is based on sucking assets and the flow of money upwards to finance capital through economic rent. If you ended the money creation ability of commercial banks and converted them into what their propaganda says they are, just credit unions, you would solve a great deal of economic problematics.

Now for anyone interested in watching.....

Steve Baker discusses it here in Britain's parliament:

Again here years later:

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Inflation is preferred to its alternative (deflation). It’s hedged in asset holdings (stocks, real estate) which all of us should own. Why do you fear it so much?

Inflation is only ‘preferred’ in the sense that it’s a side effect of pumping more money into the system. But if the economy is doing well, you’d want deflation. And if all of the money being pumped into the system goes into stocks, etc. then that simply means all the money the government is putting into the system goes to the rich (corporate owners), while everything else slowly gets more expensive for the rest of us. You’re being scammed. But if you want to be a slave, by all means, go ahead and support your own enslavement. It’s no wonder why you’re politically blue. Abolish the Gettysburg Address too while you’re at it, too, I think they’d really appreciate that.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

With one caveat: the debtors have to actually receive enough of a share of the inflation. If the flow of money only gets sucked up by creditors then the inflation just keeps making them richer, this is the logic behind the QE bailouts for bankers and financial holders. If there is virtually no economic democracy with a population that lives like economic serfs, then the economy favors creditors no matter what.

Which is exactly what’s been happening for the last 100 or so years (in the US). Inflation always favors the rich, never the poor. I’d imagine inflation would be good in a socialist/communist economy since money is all equal, but that type of setup is trash to begin with. @Mike32ct said it best that the problems with the world right now are mostly due to human greed. Capitalism would work if people weren’t so greedy bc then we’d have true mercantilism.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Capitalism would work if people weren’t so greedy

Or if any government could regulate capitalism without becoming corrupt. The problem is that the capitalists buy the politicians and we devolve into an oligarchy/sham democracy.

 

[Mike32ct]

I’m obviously not an economist. I certainly understand price increases as resources become more scarce. The remaining buyers have to bid higher. Fair enough.

But isn’t there also a greed-based component of price increases where a business raises prices ONLY to eek out more profit (with the hopes of not losing too many customers despite pissing them off lol)? You can call it “charging what the market will bear,” but that sounds like a euphemism lol.

I’m no communist. I’m pro capitalism. Just a critique of capitalism.

 

[EyeBRollin]

@Mike32ct said it best that the problems with the world right now are mostly due to human greed. Capitalism would work if people weren’t so greedy bc then we’d have true mercantilism.

You summed it all up correctly right here. Capitalism does not work because of greed. Unfortunately, human greed is the rule - not the exception. Capitalism by (human) nature is a system doomed to failure.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Or if any government could regulate capitalism without becoming corrupt. The problem is that the capitalists buy the politicians and we devolve into an oligarchy/sham democracy.

And that’s why there needs to be certain limits imposed. Those capitalists wouldn’t have enough money to bribe the politicians by if they weren’t so greedy lol. If those people didn’t have billions to their name, they wouldn’t be able to bribe to begin with. And the thing is, they got that much money because of greed and monopoly.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

You summed it all up correctly right here. Capitalism does not work because of greed. Unfortunately, human greed is the rule - not the exception. Capitalism by (human) nature is a system doomed to failure.

So then what do you propose? Socialism/communism doesn’t work because then there would be no more incentive to become doctors or engineers or biochemists, etc. since a janitor and a doctor live exactly the same even though the doctor works harder and does more. People making $500,000 a year aren’t the problem here. It’s those that make millions upon millions a year and work for huge investment firms and massive conglomerates like Walmart and McDonald’s and Monsanto that are the problem.

 

[Bible_Belt]

This is a big problem, too:

Citizens United v. FEC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

 

[AttackFormation]

So then what do you propose? Socialism/communism doesn’t work because then there would be no more incentive to become doctors or engineers or biochemists, etc. since a janitor and a doctor live exactly the same even though the doctor works harder and does more

What's socialism to you, and how have you learned about it?

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

This quote is flames. Bravo, sir.

 

[AttackFormation]

This is a big problem, too:

Citizens United v. FEC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Corporations, and ever more powerful corporations, are the natural tendency of capitalism - and of human behavior more generally. There is a capitalist myth that it's based on competition, with little artisans competing in some market fair to sell products that they produced and took there from beginning to end by themselves, and they can only make money in some utilitarian exchange where both parties think it's a good deal. In reality, cooperation is so much more efficient than competition that states have to create laws to prevent people from cooperating, like antitrust laws and laws that say investment banks and commercial banks have to be "separate". And it's not necessary for both parties to think it's a good deal in order for transfers of money to take place, just ask victims of conquest, robbery, fraud, racketeering, and so on.

A corporation leverages division of labor and economies of scale first of all, to be more efficient than sole proprietors who do everything by themselves. This is so obvious that we don't even think about it. Then they leverage anticompetitive practices, barriers to entry, network effects and platform monopolies, patent laws, privatization of natural monopolies, cornering the market, and mergers and acquisitions to either exclude competition and grow, or absorb other economic assets into itself. They then cooperate (again, not competing) with politicians through revolving doors/kickbacks/regulatory capture. This may even allow them to commit criminal activities like fraud and merely be slapped on the fingers for it, making it a net gain. Because of that and since the state has a monopoly on what is legal ("licensing" when the state does it, "racketeering" if not) and sets tax policy, buying control of it is one of the highest rates of return on investment that a rich entity can make.

All of these factors in the paragraph above (as well as inheritance) is how big money is really made, not by "hard work" and "producing value". That's just public relations.

You will never eliminate "crony capitalism" because cronyism is capitalism. And nepotism more generally is natural human behavior. The only way to mitigate it is radical democracy (see economic democracy) as in libertarian socialism, so that economic or political power is not concentrated in any authoritarian oligarchy either economically or politically. But then you have the Iron Law of Oligarchy that Robert Michels coined..... we can only strive to minimize it.

 

[AttackFormation]

Without economic democracy, you won't have democracy. Without democracy, you will have oligarchy and all the effects that a high power distance and lack of accountability entails.

Why is real estate the default way to get rich? Because valuable land has a finite supply, a value that can increase by itself due to positive externalities, you can corner the market for land, you have favorable tax legislation that doesn't tax land, and banks are constantly pumping credit into real estate inflating the prices because the more debt there is the more money they make and land is a fixed asset that they can create debt against. Not because you "worked hard to produce value". Why are rents increasing? because these kinds of factors and cronyism combine to squeeze you for all you've got, not because any technical cost of production has really increased.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

What's socialism to you, and how have you learned about it?

Much higher taxes to the point you hardly earn a whole lot, but also the majority of goods and services are free (up to a certain point anyway), or at the very least reduced a lot.

 

[AttackFormation]

Much higher taxes to the point you hardly earn a whole lot, but also the majority of goods and services are free (up to a certain point anyway), or at the very least reduced a lot.

Where/how did you get that definition?

 

[EyeBRollin]

Where/how did you get that definition?

U.S. corporate propaganda (media).

 

[AttackFormation]

U.S. corporate propaganda (media).

This is where I'm trying to gently lead.

America was the homeland of modern propaganda, with Woodrow Wilson's Committee of Public Relations and Edward Bernays the Father of Propaganda. People elsewhere aren't enlightened buddhas, but in my internet experience, America stands out as the place with the most propagandized population who simultaneously zealously and proudly believe that their opinions are their own. It really is awe inspiring as a work of propaganda.

ImTheDoubleGreatest has performed zero research on socialism or its history, but yet he has a doubt-free opinion most of all of what it comprehensively is and also what its effects must be. I would bet he hasn't so much as opened the wikipedia page on "socialism" a single time. It isn't really his fault as he has grown up in that environment, just like some kid growing up in the american south and being fed the Lost Cause mythology by relatives and school boards captured by the United Daughters of the Confederacy. From his other posts I know he can do research if he thinks he needs to, but like that kid, it just never occurs. If someone had performed zero research about chemistry but yet had a doubt-free opinion of how to operate a laboratory and what the effects of some compound is, you would think they are crazy, but that is exactly the state of mind that very well performed propaganda has created. It is marvelous on one hand and tragic on the other.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Where/how did you get that definition?

School books, very mild reading, communist manifesto, and hearing proponents of socialism talk about socialism. Mostly the last one. Everything else just used double-speak and broad words to make it seem like it’s better than it is, i.e. “the production and distribution of goods and services should be regulated by the people of a community”. Lol. Sounds better than it is. Some socialized programs are great, and honestly well-needed (schools, roads, street lights, etc.) but unfortunately the quality goes down dramatically a lot of times.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

This is where I'm trying to gently lead.

America was the homeland of modern propaganda, with Woodrow Wilson's Committee of Public Relations and Edward Bernays the Father of Propaganda. People elsewhere aren't enlightened buddhas, but in my internet experience, America stands out as the place with the most propagandized population who simultaneously zealously and proudly believe that their opinions are their own. It really is awe inspiring as a work of propaganda.

ImTheDoubleGreatest has performed zero research on socialism or its history, but yet he has a doubt-free opinion most of all of what it comprehensively is and also what its effects must be. I would bet he hasn't so much as opened the wikipedia page on "socialism" a single time. It isn't really his fault as he has grown up in that environment, just like some kid growing up in the american south and being fed the Lost Cause mythology by relatives and school boards captured by the United Daughters of the Confederacy. From his other posts I know he can do research if he thinks he needs to, but like that kid, it just never occurs. If someone had performed zero research about chemistry but yet had a doubt-free opinion of how to operate a laboratory and what the effects of some compound is, you would think they are crazy, but that is exactly the state of mind that very well performed propaganda has created. It is marvelous on one hand and tragic on the other.

I get it, you’re from Sweden and feel insulted by what I’ve said. Boohoo. I still don’t like socialism that much lol