An Alternative View on Confidence

[In2theGame]

Confidence is something that is both built up from high self esteem and historical accomplishments.

If it was built into you from childhood - Say you have a Father, Uncle or older Brother who from the time you were a child, taught you and kept your self esteem high all your young life. Once you become a young Man of 18+, you're view of things are from a high point already and thus confidence and self esteem has become a part of you because that's how you were raised.

It was learned through experiences - Let's say you grew up in a small town and you were more of a chubby introvert that not many, if any, girls payed any attention to. Then when you got to the age of 21, you got really into nutrition and working out. by the time you were 23, you're ripped, muscular and lean. Your facial features are now showing and all of a sudden Women left and right are trying to talk to you but you're not that confident in yourself because history as taught you that "no girls used to talk to me". Your mind adjusts once this keeps on happening over and over and ultimately your mind is transformed from thinking"No girls talk to me" to "All these Girls want me". NOW you have developed the confidence to approach girls, talk to them have sex with them and the confidence grows further from there because again, history has shown that girls DO want you and find you attractive.

It's a snowball effect and this is why things like self talk and repetitive success affirmations are popular because your mind needs to "find the data" in order for you to perceive things a certain way. This is also why there is no substitute for real life experience, this is what shapes your mind and confidence in anything you do.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Confidence comes from the fact that you have the tools and that when you previously made attempts, they succeeded.

Take 3 guys that never played basketball and put them on court to play...one is 6feet tall while the others 5'2, whos gonna be more confident?

Take 3 guys who never studied maths, two work as food deliveries while the third has 2 degrees in other non connected subjects...which one is gonna feel more confident about succeeding to learn?

Im not talking about final outcomes, Im talking about initial confidence.

Confidence grows from within but initially comes from outside.

I understand "building confidence", I mean that's my thing! I was just saying some guys have another type of confidence that is just a extreme high level of belief, that was never earned. That extreme high level of belief makes growth much easier. In the face of extreme confidence, you will focus on the task, you won't have anxiety, you won't have fear, and you won't listen to thoughts that will distract or minimize you.

And I can describe "building confidence" and "prevent things from STRIPPING your confidence" nearly like a science, I believe in it fully. I was just saying there is a different kind.

So say, due to your background, your passions and interests, you have much MORE confidence than the group, and it's visible like "light"... Should the group be allowed to adjust your confidence level downward to match their "pecking order" and should you listen?

One of the greatest things we do to kill or minimize confidence is to speak of it and where it is coming from. People use those clues and keys to bring you down and for control.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Confidence is something that is both built up from high self esteem and historical accomplishments.

If it was built into you from childhood - Say you have a Father, Uncle or older Brother who from the time you were a child, taught you and kept your self esteem high all your young life. Once you become a young Man of 18+, you're view of things are from a high point already and thus confidence and self esteem has become a part of you because that's how you were raised.

It was learned through experiences - Let's say you grew up in a small town and you were more of a chubby introvert that not many, if any, girls payed any attention to. Then when you got to the age of 21, you got really into nutrition and working out. by the time you were 23, you're ripped, muscular and lean. Your facial features are now showing and all of a sudden Women left and right are trying to talk to you but you're not that confident in yourself because history as taught you that "no girls used to talk to me". Your mind adjusts once this keeps on happening over and over and ultimately your mind is transformed from thinking"No girls talk to me" to "All these Girls want me". NOW you have developed the confidence to approach girls, talk to them have sex with them and the confidence grows further from there because again, history has shown that girls DO want you and find you attractive.

It's a snowball effect and this is why things like self talk and repetitive success affirmations are popular because your mind needs to "find the data" in order for you to perceive things a certain way. This is always why there is not substitute for real life experience, this is what shapes your mind and confidence in anything you do.

What if you just grew up in a irrationally "proud" family? And what if you grew up in the opposite, a extremely non controversial "HUMBLE" family. "HUMBLE" to the point to attempt to stay small to stay out of conflict. You will know what you saw. So some "inherit" confidence and the pride of the family and those who they are around.

 

[In2theGame]

What if you just grew up in a irrationally "proud" family? And what if you grew up in the opposite, a extremely non controversial "HUMBLE" family. "HUMBLE" to the point to attempt to stay small to stay out of conflict. You will know what you saw. So some "inherit" confidence and the pride of the family and those who they are around.

Well i think what you're saying is you become a product of your environment which is true. The person that grows up in an irrational proud family is likely to succeed at certain things due to them having a higher perception of themselves. Maybe Sure, they'll get humbled by a few life lessons but ultimately they're starting out on a higher mindset.

The other who grows up in a humble, quiet family will need to get out there and experience things in life that will boost them up somehow. They need to get away from those "humble" quiet environments and mix with those who have a mindset or else their mind, experience and perception of things stay small.


I'll tell you a quick story, I mostly had serious girlfriends when i was young and the thought of me going to bars/lounges/clubs on Saturday night used to make me nervous. i would think "I'm going to look stupid in the bars" "What am i going to do in there" "i dont know if i feel like dancing in front of people".

over the years going through a lot of bullsh*t with my ex girlfriends and heartbreak.. Once i became single, I changed my physique and with it my mindset, perception and confidence dramatically changed. I absolutely love going to bars/lounges on Saturday nights. I love to dance with different girls, I love to approach and flirt with Women.

You see how far apart those two things are? it's like two different people yet the same person that went through different experiences and mindsets.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Well i think what you're saying is you become a product of your environment which is true. The person that grows up in an irrational proud family is likely to succeed at certain things due to them having a higher perception of themselves. Maybe Sure, they'll get humbled by a few life lessons but ultimately they're starting out on a higher mindset.

The other who grows up in a humble, quiet family will need to get out there and experience things in life that will boost them up somehow. They need to get away from those "humble" quiet environments and mix with those who have a mindset or else their mind, experience and perception of things stay small.


I'll tell you a quick story, I mostly had serious girlfriends when i was young and the thought of me going to bars/lounges/clubs on Saturday night used to make me nervous. i would think "I'm going to look stupid in the bars" "What am i going to do in there" "i dont know if i feel like dancing in front of people".

over the years going through a lot of bullsh*t with my ex girlfriends and heartbreak.. Once i became single, I changed my physique and with it my mindset, perception and confidence dramatically changed. I absolutely love going to bars/lounges on Saturday nights. I love to dance with different girls, I love to approach and flirt with Women.

You see how far apart those two things are? it's like two different people yet the same person that went through different experiences and mindsets.

How do people who "framed" your original confidence act? They don't get angry?

Body game and a few improvements raise your confidence a ton. And some guys had that "stupid" confidence where they had that belief before and it was unearned.

 

[GrowingPains]

Hm...

I think the majority of the posts here say one of two things:

1. Confidence can come from within - fake it till you make it
2. Confidence can come from success - success breeds confidence

I think both are true. Polarizing and saying one is absolute is simply incorrect. Many of the examples here try to simplify and show that 'here's this example, see how simple it is and how clearly it depicts what I'm trying to get across?' But there are also other factors contributing to the fact that the example works. I was gonna type up some dissection of one of the examples given here but... fvckallthat.

This post made me think about something else I've been thinking lately. I hope I'm not derailing the conversation because I think it's highly related. Some people will tell you things - your parents... your friends... SoSuave - but you just might not get it in the moment. And later down the line it clicks for you after you've experienced something that allows you to internalize what that person was trying to tell you is truth. But it's only until you experience it that it can become your truth... That's unfortunate because that means that we often aren't ready for the advice that's given to us. We may miss out on many opportunities just because it didn't make sense to us at the time - because we hadn't experienced it. But what if we simply analyzed what the advice was saying. Thought of the action it required of us and propagated it forward. Then we can analyze - what happens if I do this versus this. That'd allow a lot more logical analysis which would enable us to take the advice and use it to our advantage even if it didn't truly resonate with us at that time.

This is like believing you can walk. Or believing that you can get girls. You must convince yourself along the way that whatever advice or actions you decide to take are going to get you the desired outcome. That requires belief and conviction.

Confidence comes from acting with your logical mind. Whether it's that you see that some action can take you to a desired destination that you've never been before. Or if it's that you did something in the past and it's repeatedly produced a desired outcome.

Use logic to breed conviction. Use discipline to foster said conviction. Get results. Solidify the conviction as truth.
Use logic to breed confidence. Use discipline to foster said confidence. Get results. Solidify the confidence as truth.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

But even an irrational belief is a quality. Look at Adam Neumann, Weworks, Elizabeth Holmes, Theranos. Do you think they would have raised so much money if they didn’t have irrational belief.

Theranos is a great example of it. Con men and con women have this type of confidence in abundance.

 

[Lookatu]

It comes from a massive amount of guys messaging her on dating apps "Hey Cutie" with an Inbox of 200+ unopened messages.

I agree. Totally forgot the social media aspect of all the orbiters, likes, messages, so on... Although this could be more ego than confidence...

 

[zekko]

That extreme high level of belief makes growth much easier. In the face of extreme confidence, you will focus on the task, you won't have anxiety, you won't have fear, and you won't listen to thoughts that will distract or minimize you.

Something else that gives a similar effect is if you have a big passion and have strong determination that you are going to learn everything about that subject and accomplish your goal, and not let anything stand in your way. I guess this creates confidence in how determined you are.

I do know people who were inexplicably confident about themselves, and it baffled me as to why. And I admit they had some success because of this. I put it down to the power of positive thinking (which is almost always better than negative thinking), and because their confidence gave them the boldness to take action.

Once i became single, I changed my physique and with it my mindset, perception and confidence dramatically changed. I absolutely love going to bars/lounges on Saturday nights. I love to dance with different girls, I love to approach and flirt with Women.

You see how far apart those two things are? it's like two different people yet the same person that went through different experiences and mindsets.

Sounds like originally you didn't even really want to go into a bar, it wasn't something you were interested in doing. And later it sounds like you became confident through experience. Which is usually how confidence works, you have experience with something, and you know you've had success with it. You became successful at something you didn't even really know that you wanted to do in the first place.

 

[In2theGame]

I agree. Totally forgot the social media aspect of all the orbiters, likes, messages, so on... Although this could be more ego than confidence...

Women have very fragile egos so the constant attention they get from Men either on the street or (mostly) on dating apps/Instagram/facebook/snapchat etc. that's where they get their confidence from. They take pictures with various filters on them and get excited when they upload them on the app to see just how much "Likes", "Hearts"and "You're so sexy" comments they can get.

Some Girls/Women literally can't sleep if they don't get attention on the social media apps. it's that bad. Other's could develop mild depression if they don't feel "wanted". I'm tellin you, Women have very sensitive ego's.

 

[Visionist]

In 1999, I rode my first rollercoaster, a humble Pinfari Zyklon. It was unnerving to me at ten years old, but no big deal. It was scrapped the next year and I never got another ride.


(Not the Zyklon I rode on. Next to no images exist of it.)

In 2007 I rode Kraken at SeaWorld Orlando. I wasn't even on the front or back row but I was scared shìtless on the way up the lift hill, holding my head back, gritting my teeth and gripping the restraint's handles for dear life.

I certainly had no idea that I'd just discovered my passion.

The next day I rode Hulk at Islands of Adventure and something clicked. I wasn't sticking my arms up but I was cheering instead of clamping my mouth shut in fear.



Already I was much more confident. I also rode the ice side of Dueling Dragons, Blizzrock (Rest In Pieces) and the near misses were exhilarating.

Two years later, I visited Thorpe Park near London, and aimed straight for front row of the tallest, fastest ride there, Stealth. An Intamin Rocket model hydraulic launch coaster, and then possessor of the world's second highest acceleration (third today). Again, I didn't put my arms up.

Fast forward nine years, I had developed a coaster obsession, despite having never ridden any since 2009. Maybe being trapped in a chemo ward for months had me yearning for a release. I planned and executed visits to Alton Towers and Blackpool Pleasure Beach. I had to fly over a thousand miles and drive over half that many again, but my confidence was now unshakeable. I had to ride as many coasters as possible, whatever the cost.

I started with Oblivion, a B&M Dive Machine, the world's first vertical drop coaster. I was suddenly nervous again. I didn't put my arms up as I plunged deep underground. It was quite the rush after nine years of coaster inceldom.



I very briefly had doubts. Was this hobby really for me? I rode it again and, sat next to me was a girl in her early twenties. I told her to put her arms up as we hung briefly over the black pit of Oblivion. She did. I didn't. Down we went.

I had great fun on that trip, and I was happy to have found a calling of sorts. Never a social person, and absorbed until then in my "indoor" hobbies, I had finally found something that promised to take me across the planet.

And it did.

I now put my arms and legs up on every ride, however fast, tall, or intense. I suffer great physical pain on rough older coasters (cough cough Vekoma) but I refuse to be daunted by any of it. I also easily convert the less daring when waiting in ride queue lines. I have convinced many strangers to give a coaster a shot. Afterwards they loved it.

So about that whole confidence thing; it comes from your steadfast determination to see something through. Others can help you if they have the best intentions for you, but it has to come from you. My family hates rollercoasters, and ridicules me for flying thousands of miles away on my own to ride them. I pity them.

 

[In2theGame]

Sounds like originally you didn't even really want to go into a bar, it wasn't something you were interested in doing. And later it sounds like you became confident through experience. Which is usually how confidence works, you have experience with something, and you know you've had success with it. You became successful at something you didn't even really know that you wanted to do in the first place.

I guess but i think maybe i felt insecure about myself around a lot of hot girls. Thoughts running through my mind would range from "They're gonna think im ugly" to "I'm just going to look stupid just hanging around". I went from that mindset when i was much much younger to being probably the biggest Womanizer many of my friends know. I became well known at many bars because how much ass I was pulling. Once I developed my physique and i started getting a **** ton of attention from Women, it started building my confidence over time till i got to the point where i loved opening up to groups of sexy Women.

 

[Kotaix]

Yeah I've been playing guitar for three months now. My fingers are good and blistered and I can play a number of songs better than I could when I started. Of course I have a long ways to go. But I can say I'm more confident in my ability than I was then. I wasn't embarrassed to show people what I could do three months ago, but I know I'm better now. So it goes with most things.

I think you can start with the inner confidence in knowing you have the ability to learn and master something with practice. And then the growing confidence that comes with practice. Case in point, most pro athletes are confident/c0cky, but as rookies they realize that alone won't get it done. They go through growing pains to reach the top. They key is not being afraid to suck at first.

How this translates to attraction...well, the whole fake-it-til-you-make-it advice is more about getting the reps in, like anything else. If you haven't been doing it, you've gotta start somewhere. And even men who are naturals and started out easily attracting women as teens still learn and adjust. Nothing is static. I've had many men tell me "Man I just don't have the confidence to do that" and I tell them that it has little to do with it...it's more a matter of experience and comfort.

Music is an amazing way to get confidence in yourself, and it all comes from you. In music you have to learn to just go for it instead of trying, it always sounds better, which translates perfectly into everything in life.

To be confident you have to stop second guessing yourself and take the action you want to take, because this is your life to live according to your rules. If you are unappologetically honest, people who want to be around you will gravitate toward you because everyone likes a genuine person.

 

[Lookatu]

Women have very fragile egos so the constant attention they get from Men either on the street or (mostly) on dating apps/Instagram/facebook/snapchat etc. that's where they get their confidence from. They take pictures with various filters on them and get excited when they upload them on the app to see just how much "Likes", "Hearts"and "You're so sexy" comments they can get.

Some Girls/Women literally can't sleep if they don't get attention on the social media apps. it's that bad. Other's could develop mild depression if they don't feel "wanted". I'm tellin you, Women have very sensitive ego's.

I agree and that's why dating apps are messed up because half the girls on there have no interest in actually dating. They just use it to validate and inflate their egos.

I gotta wonder what the fallout would be like if this Coronavirus lockdown happened and if the internet was also knocked out. LOL
That I would like to see...

 

[Lynx nkaf]

In 1999, I rode my first rollercoaster, a humble Pinfari Zyklon. It was unnerving to me at ten years old, but no big deal. It was scrapped the next year and I never got another ride.

View attachment 4171
(Not the Zyklon I rode on. Next to no images exist of it.)

In 2007 I rode Kraken at SeaWorld Orlando. I wasn't even on the front or back row but I was scared shìtless on the way up the lift hill, holding my head back, gritting my teeth and gripping the restraint's handles for dear life.

I certainly had no idea that I'd just discovered my passion.

The next day I rode Hulk at Islands of Adventure and something clicked. I wasn't sticking my arms up but I was cheering instead of clamping my mouth shut in fear.

View attachment 4172

Already I was much more confident. I also rode the ice side of Dueling Dragons, Blizzrock (Rest In Pieces) and the near misses were exhilarating.

Two years later, I visited Thorpe Park near London, and aimed straight for front row of the tallest, fastest ride there, Stealth. An Intamin Rocket model hydraulic launch coaster, and then possessor of the world's second highest acceleration (third today). Again, I didn't put my arms up.

Fast forward nine years, I had developed a coaster obsession, despite having never ridden any since 2009. Maybe being trapped in a chemo ward for months had me yearning for a release. I planned and executed visits to Alton Towers and Blackpool Pleasure Beach. I had to fly over a thousand miles and drive over half that many again, but my confidence was now unshakeable. I had to ride as many coasters as possible, whatever the cost.

I started with Oblivion, a B&M Dive Machine, the world's first vertical drop coaster. I was suddenly nervous again. I didn't put my arms up as I plunged deep underground. It was quite the rush after nine years of coaster inceldom.

View attachment 4173

I very briefly had doubts. Was this hobby really for me? I rode it again and, sat next to me was a girl in her early twenties. I told her to put her arms up as we hung briefly over the black pit of Oblivion. She did. I didn't. Down we went.

I had great fun on that trip, and I was happy to have found a calling of sorts. Never a social person, and absorbed until then in my "indoor" hobbies, I had finally found something that promised to take me across the planet.

And it did.

I now put my arms and legs up on every ride, however fast, tall, or intense. I suffer great physical pain on rough older coasters (cough cough Vekoma) but I refuse to be daunted by any of it. I also easily convert the less daring when waiting in ride queue lines. I have convinced many strangers to give a coaster a shot. Afterwards they loved it.

So about that whole confidence thing; it comes from your steadfast determination to see something through. Others can help you if they have the best intentions for you, but it has to come from you. My family hates rollercoasters, and ridicules me for flying thousands of miles away on my own to ride them. I pity them.

What a fantastic story to share in approaches.
You make the reader want to go on coasters with you. Cool, unique hobby Visionist.
Having these pics as screensavers on your phone when you pass it to the girl so she can input her number(the 'assumed close' from The Game book) would be a memorable conversation item and would demonstrate risktaking and yes, confidence. Some great posts I'm reading here today on Sosuave.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Success breeds success.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I agree on some part, but i think confidence from some aspect can be transferred to other aspect.

This is why imo things like working out is so important.
You can never be fully confident in something if you lack experience but you can compensate.

I think the gym is one of the, if not the most important aspect of the self improvement.

 

[nicksaiz65]

First of all, I'm very glad to hear of your progress.

I agree that you've discovered the key to confidence.

One only needs to look at a baby to learn about how to attain confidence. One step, and fall. One step, and fall. One step, and fall. Two steps and fall. Two steps and fall. Three steps and fall.

Fast-forward 20 years, and we see an Olympic medal. All true inner-core confidence comes from tiny baby steps, but that must be accompanied by ignoring the emotional stress of many failures and the resulting necessity slight adjustments. Most people fail to gain confidence because unlike the infant, they cry and say "poor me" every time they fall down.

Thanks Atom Smasher, I appreciate it.

You're a really smart guy, so it makes me feel good that you agree about the "key to confidence."

 

[nicksaiz65]

How do people who "framed" your original confidence act? They don't get angry?

Body game and a few improvements raise your confidence a ton. And some guys had that "stupid" confidence where they had that belief before and it was unearned.

"Body game" is one of the easiest ways to gain confidence imo. AMS and Locario say that if you really get your body game on point, you don't even need quite as much normal game.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Hm...

I think the majority of the posts here say one of two things:

1. Confidence can come from within - fake it till you make it
2. Confidence can come from success - success breeds confidence

I think both are true. Polarizing and saying one is absolute is simply incorrect. Many of the examples here try to simplify and show that 'here's this example, see how simple it is and how clearly it depicts what I'm trying to get across?' But there are also other factors contributing to the fact that the example works. I was gonna type up some dissection of one of the examples given here but... fvckallthat.

This post made me think about something else I've been thinking lately. I hope I'm not derailing the conversation because I think it's highly related. Some people will tell you things - your parents... your friends... SoSuave - but you just might not get it in the moment. And later down the line it clicks for you after you've experienced something that allows you to internalize what that person was trying to tell you is truth. But it's only until you experience it that it can become your truth... That's unfortunate because that means that we often aren't ready for the advice that's given to us. We may miss out on many opportunities just because it didn't make sense to us at the time - because we hadn't experienced it. But what if we simply analyzed what the advice was saying. Thought of the action it required of us and propagated it forward. Then we can analyze - what happens if I do this versus this. That'd allow a lot more logical analysis which would enable us to take the advice and use it to our advantage even if it didn't truly resonate with us at that time.

This is like believing you can walk. Or believing that you can get girls. You must convince yourself along the way that whatever advice or actions you decide to take are going to get you the desired outcome. That requires belief and conviction.

Confidence comes from acting with your logical mind. Whether it's that you see that some action can take you to a desired destination that you've never been before. Or if it's that you did something in the past and it's repeatedly produced a desired outcome.

Use logic to breed conviction. Use discipline to foster said conviction. Get results. Solidify the conviction as truth.
Use logic to breed confidence. Use discipline to foster said confidence. Get results. Solidify the confidence as truth.

That struck a chord for me... I know exactly what you mean. I can't even count how many times I don't get something in the moment, and then months later I'm like "ohhhhhh, I see what they were saying now." I'm starting to think that's one of the quirks of life tbh.