Trouble with building trust and rapport

sosumba

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I will cut straight to the chase:
I have trouble building some emotional connection and trust with women so that they could trust me and feel some sort of connection with me by the end of the date. Is there any good litterature, videos or just general tips on this topic that you could suggest?
 

mrgoodstuff

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I will cut straight to the case:
I have trouble building some emotional connection and trust with women so that they could trust me and feel some sort of connection with me by the end of the date. Is there any good litterature, videos or just general tips on this topic that you could suggest?
Should it happen that quickly?
 

Alvafe

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Should it happen that quickly?
she should at least feel like something is building, if he fails on that then he sure need to improve, problem is there is too little information from op to really coment on anything, we could tell him the basics, but that is already in the DJ bible
 

sosumba

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If you tell me your approach to your conversations, I can tell you where you're currently going wrong and how to fix it.
I mainly try to ask open questions and just listen while she talks and then chip in some joke or a comment about what she said here and there (her talking 80% me talking 20%) and steer the conversation away from complicated topics. When she says something I dont agree with I dont pretend I agree with her. I try to hold eye contact with her as much as possible. I usually dont compliment to not validate her for no reason. I am also quite reserved when it comes to kinoesthetics, many times I go straight for the kiss.
 

Kotaix

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You're trying, which is the problem. Don't try to remember a script of things to say or questions to ask, let the interaction flow naturally and see where it goes. That's how you know if you have real chemistry with her. And be unashamed of yourself.
 

sosumba

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The balance is you need to show interest in BOTH her generic qualities (sex appeal) AND her unique qualities (personality, vibe, etc).

It's not an either/or thing. It's both/and.
This is quite hard for me to do since some girls are not interesting at all, like they talk about Kardashian and whatnot. I am sure they would be interesting if we went on more dates but I dont have time to go on 50 dates to just be in the friend zone.

Some girls are indeed interesting and there your tips are very usefull. Thank you!
 

Visionist

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Social proof helps a girl feel "safe" around you even if you haven't hung out one on one yet. If others feel safe around you - especially other women - she will, by default. Remember that men lead and women follow.

A lot of guys think "feeling safe" around him means he's non-threatening and non-sexual, and will get him friendzoned. This might happen.

However if she feels safe around him and he makes a strong move he won't get friendzoned. He might still get rejected, but from an "I can't let him fück my brains to mush" angle and not an "oh he's such a nice guy" angle.

Women crave danger, but within a frame of safety, if not security. When you pull the lapbar shut on an Intamin you've never ridden, you might feel some delicious tingles of danger. Deep down you know the odds say that you'll 99.9999999999% survive this, so you feel comforted. Women often love horror movies for the same reason (and because they have an excuse to squeeze Chad's hand and taste his junk in the cinema's back row, but I digress...).

TLDR - be preselected. If others find you safe, she will.
 

sosumba

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Do you not talk about yourself and what's going on in your life at all? And if not, how can she get to know you and what you're all about if you don't?
The trouble is that I am trying not to reveal as much on purpose since women dont like stuff they know everything about (I am trying to be bit mysterious in a way).

What is the golden ratio here? I suppose I need to share more of myself with them but I dont know to what degree for me to stop being interesting.
 

FJA

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It think it´s a common mistake that men think that they should let her talk 80% en he only 20%. It´s about giving her the feeling that it´s cool to be around you, that you have a life and tell about it. She must notice that if she is around you, her life is of a higher quality than now, without you. So, in many cases, it´s maybe you talking 80% and she 20%, to give her this feeling, there´s no golden rule for it.
 

Visionist

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At the end of the day, talking is secondary to animal attraction.

A girl is physically drawn to us and by talking, we maintain her interest. But increase her interest? More likely we'll decrease it by saying something that slightly irritates her and she'll blow it out of all proportion the way women famously do. Never apologize in that case; own what you say proudly and if she doesn't like it, she doesn't get to ride the baloney express does she? It's her loss. I actually sh!t test women this way, saying something controversial and watching her squirm uncomfortably (she fails) or giggle naughtily (she passes).

In this metoo era, going caveman is more relevant than ever. Women are just as sick of the politically correct BS as men are, and a man who stirs her loins is not exactly going to put her off, whatever he says, and however he puts his hands on her.

Rather than seeking a connection through words, forge that same connection through energetic, masochistic sex. Wear yourself and her out. You can't talk when you're both knackered.

Just be aware that she'll start blowing up your phone after that.
 

sosumba

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I actually sh!t test women this way, saying something controversial and watching her squirm uncomfortably (she fails) or giggle naughtily (she passes).
Very good points! Can you please give some examples? Should it be nonPC about feminism for instance or like maybe about women in general?
 

Visionist

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It's always sexual, and that means often going against feminist imperative.

It doesn't even have to be controversial. All too often, I simply explain traditional male - female dynamics, pointing them out to her as I'm carrying them out. So for example I'll mention that women communicate their desire indirectly - and I'll subtly compliment her here by saying that this is positive feminine behaviour - whilst men are much more direct, mentioning "us masculine men enjoy strong eye contact" - whilst looking her intently in the eyes.

Edit: often when getting a drink with a girl, I'll nonchalantly order two pineapple juices, without asking her what she wants first. I'll then tell her that pineapple juice makes your cüm taste better (true for a man at least) whilst we drink.
 
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oldmanofthesea

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The trouble is that I am trying not to reveal as much on purpose since women dont like stuff they know everything about (I am trying to be bit mysterious in a way).

What is the golden ratio here? I suppose I need to share more of myself with them but I dont know to what degree for me to stop being interesting.
It's a really good question actually.

On one hand, people are told to let the woman do most of the talking, remain mysterious, and don't validate her.
On the other hand, people are told not to turn the conversation into an interview and to build connection.

You can apply a framework at first until you get used to how it looks/feels. I will give you a framework to use.

The important things are that you need to lead the conversation, you need to get her emotions involved because women are emotional, you need to share something relateable about yourself, and you ONLY give praise when it is deserved.

Start with a general high-level question, then drill down to something more specific, then make it personal and then relate something about yourself to it.

Here is an example:
You (leading, and being general): Are you into music?
Her: Yeah, I listen to it a lot and I even play an instrument
You (getting specific): Oh yeah? What instrument do you play?
Her: I play classic rock that I adapt to be played on pipe organs
You (validating because it's deserved, and now getting personal): Wow, that's really unique! How does it feel to play that kind of music on such an unusual instrument?"
Her: "Oh it's incredible because on one hand, you have this massive instrument that was made hundreds of years before rock came and on the other hand.... etc etc etc"
You (if you didn't validate in the previous step, if her last response was worthy of it, you could validate here. otherwise here is where relate): I played the trumpet when I was young. I was good too.... I should have kept it up but I guess I had other things on my mind when I got to high school ;)

Note that to make it personal - you want to try to ask her how something makes her FEEL. Another example is:
Do you have a big family?
Yeah it's huge?
How many siblings do you have?
6!
That's a lot! I grew up with only one sibling.... I can't imagine having 6! Tell me what that was like for you! <--- this is where her emotions get involved.

This isn't "how to get girls". This is normal conversation framework that you probably already apply when you talk to people you know and are comfortable with. But thanks to biology, men forget how to think, talk, walk, breathe, and swallow when around an attractive woman, so using this framework to get you in the groove with women in conversation helps put you at ease in order to push past the barrier you have. Once you do it a handful of times, it will become second-nature again. You can use this framework when talking to anyone, male friends, parents, store clerks. Try it and see.
 

Visionist

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^ I would add to this framework by always framing my questions as statements, keeping them funny and teasing her, and using this approach to subtly compliment her if it calls for it.

So for instance rather than asking her what music she likes, say "you look like you're into illegal raves".
 
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