Passive vs. Active game

[maverickbh]

Hi guys,

I am contemplating the effectiveness of passive and active game for my personality.

I am more of an introvert (INTJ personality type), so passive game is convenient. Additionally, I am tall, muscular and many girls told me that I am very good looking. In the past I have relied on having girls approach me. They come to me with a very high attraction and all I gotta do is just do me and things work out. I enjoy the power of being the object of their desire, as opposed to me trying to seduce them. They come to me wanting my attention and my approval and they do whatever I want them to do just to please me. When it works, it works perfectly. However, as you might guess, my volume of sex is very minimal. Only a certain type of girl comes to me: very active, bold and manipulative. Makes sense given my exclusively passive game.

There's a huge mismatch between my SMV and my sexual activity. This is the problem that I need help with.

Given my personality type (INTJ), I suck at small talk. I can't succeed at forced conversations. I am the best version of myself when I just be and do me, without putting pressure on myself to say X or do Y. I tried PUA for a year in the past and it was a total disaster. It comes off very unnatural, because it is. When I don't try, I naturally do everything PUA guys do without even consciously realizing it.

So what to do now? Is there a way for me to access more girls without trying to force things? How can I live up to my SMV? How can I increase my sexual interactions? If active game is what I need to pursue, how can that be modeled for my personality type?

Thanks!

 

[Prettyboy Dee]

You answered your own question

Be more active, be aggressive, be bold, make moves

Dont sit around nd be passive waiting on girls to come to you......

If your are as good looking as you say then it should be easy, what good is being attractive if you dont have the balls to make a move.

Your personality is not the problem so dont use that as a excuse

 

[maverickbh]

I can smell the helplessness and low self belief/low self esteem in your post. You don’t genuinely believe that women will seduce you, that’s why it doesn’t happen. There is a massive incongruency between what you say your SMV is and your results.

Maybe something happened to you when you were a kid that ruined your self esteem.

A tall handsome guy cannot go through high school and college and not be bombarded without chicks trying to fvck him. Unless he has crippling insecurity/or something is seriously wrong with him to the point he needs therapy.

You want us to believe that you lived in a vacuum your whole life and never got any socialization from chicks - which would have massively increased your confidence and experience with women.

High SMV guys don’t come here with your problems. You have incel problems.

Why don’t you try again and re-introduce yourself– and this time be honest.

Why are you so insecure?

I would give myself a 7 looks wise and I see a million ioi’s when I go out. Chicks open themselves as if seducing guys never went out of style. And it’s not just me. Chicks are literally leaving home with any guy who seems borderline cool.

I have no incentive to lie. This is an anonymous post at an online forum. It's in my best interest to present reality as I see it to be true, and I fully acknowledge that my subjective perception may not represent "objective" reality but it is at least my best attempt.

My problem was never to have girls notice me or be attracted to me. I consistently attract the hottest girls in every environment I have been to. I lived in 3 countries: cultures were different, but girls were the same. This is how I infer my high SMV. The problem I suffer is finishing, not generating attraction. My problem is translating attraction to sex.

I don't think that it has anything to do with insecurities or confidence. I am a very confident person.

However, I should have clarified earlier that I grew up in a very conservative environment where sex is a taboo and I was not allowed to interact with girls. At least in the beginning of my relationships with girls, it felt foreign. All hedonistic activities to this day feel foreign to me. I had to learn female nature, attraction dynamics and game on my own instead of living it as a natural part of growing up.

Frankly speaking, I have no idea what's wrong. I can try to suggest possibilities, but I can't speak with certainty about why it's just not working out. I am not trying to blame my upbringing or my personality or anything else. I just want to understand what's wrong so I can work on it.

 

[Prettyboy Dee]

The problem I suffer is finishing, not generating attraction. My problem is translating attraction to sex.

Because you sit and wait for girls to translate to sex and I guarantee that's your issue, I know because I been there done that.

If you have no problem getting them attracted and getting there attention then after that it's your job to escalate it to sex.

Women will do there job by presenting themselves to you(which you claim you have no issue with) then it's your job to be a man and lead it to sex after that.

A women's only job is to get your attention or present themselves, the rest is up to you.

 

[Alvafe]

simple put you can't wait for a girl go after you, at most woman will make it easy, give hints, but its up to you to go after, if you aren't means you are afraid of being refused, and that make you lose.

she will go after you AFTER you started, woman can't stand rejection, so when a guy is afraid of rejection he is acting like a woman, hence why you need to make the effort first then collect the fruits, hence why you need to go foward.

reading the DJ bible and tohers topics will give you a start

 

[Kotaix]

"To command the spontaneous is the fundamental contradiction"

You suck at small talk because you're trying to find something to talk about. You're breaking frame. You violate your own principle of just being you, but you at least have the clarity to see this already.

Small talk is female/beta behavior, you're mirroring female behavior and it turns women off. Women talk enough on their own, let them do all the talking. The more you keep quiet, the more mysterious you will be. Answer her questions when she asks them and chip into the conversation when you feel like it. If her mouth making noise gives you an urge to reach for duct tape, then find another woman who doesn't.

There is no difference between the confidence you feel when a woman approaches you and treats you like a god vs the confidence you need to approach women. If you project the same energy, women will react the same way. You already know how this feels, so you're at a massive advantage over anyone who has never been fawned over before as you describe.

Your problem is lack of action. Whenever you feel the urge to approach a woman, you should do it without any care for the outcome. If you repress that spontaneity it's the same sin as trying to force small talk.

 

[Hal9000]

Focus on getting what you want from them, whether thats a date, or sex, or a casual friend. Small talk achieves none of these things so don't do it. Just as your actions should have a purpose, so should your words. Small talk is for small minds.

 

[Alvafe]

When she makes an effort to flirt with you long enough and you feel it is at the high point of the interaction, give her “plausible deniability.”

Plausible deniability is an excuse to be alone without saying “Let’s have sex.”

For example, “Yeah we should watch a movie together sometime,” or “You wanna go grab a bite to eat?” It could be anything.

What I would do is I would base the plausible deniability on an activity that we already talked about.

One time a woman I met at the clubs straight up said “You are not coming in” and I tossed aside her token resistance and said “You know that book we were talking about earlier, the one that changed my life?” Let’s go read it. Do you have internet?” We walked into her apartment and the clothes came off immediately.

There have been times where I would be hanging out in my social circles and a female friend would ask me something like “Hey do you like lasagna? I’m making some tonight. You can come over if you want.” And next thing you know we are hooking up.

Plausible deniability is universal code for “Let’s get together and have some fun but at the same time, pretend we are just hanging out”.

It’s happened to me hundreds of times throughout high school, college, the real world, etc. Since you said you missed out on socialization, this is the one thing to look for or create yourself when the interaction hits a high point. I say look for it because 75% of the time, if the chick is digging you, SHE would be the one who would try to give you plausible deniability. And if you act like you have no idea what she is talking about, the window will close.

Mostly women do it so that they don't risk rejection. If you don't take the hint, they can still move on in a civil manner. Usually when women seduce you, it is subtle to the point where guys with zero experience will weed themselves out.

but also you did scaled there right? I think it what some guys who come asking for help are struggling.

I remember one thing I had problem before, I was too naive and direct, I hardly read the non said working of this kind of interantion, and I could say I lost some opportunitys because of this.

i'm thinking most guys are struggling with the whole concept of being the prize and let her to pursue with doing what you have to do to hook up with girls

 

[maverickbh]

"To command the spontaneous is the fundamental contradiction"

You suck at small talk because you're trying to find something to talk about. You're breaking frame. You violate your own principle of just being you, but you at least have the clarity to see this already.

Small talk is female/beta behavior, you're mirroring female behavior and it turns women off. Women talk enough on their own, let them do all the talking. The more you keep quiet, the more mysterious you will be. Answer her questions when she asks them and chip into the conversation when you feel like it. If her mouth making noise gives you an urge to reach for duct tape, then find another woman who doesn't.

There is no difference between the confidence you feel when a woman approaches you and treats you like a god vs the confidence you need to approach women. If you project the same energy, women will react the same way. You already know how this feels, so you're at a massive advantage over anyone who has never been fawned over before as you describe.

Your problem is lack of action. Whenever you feel the urge to approach a woman, you should do it without any care for the outcome. If you repress that spontaneity it's the same sin as trying to force small talk.

You are truly a wise man - thanks so much for the advice!

It never occured to me to approach women with the same energy as when I know that the girl is into me. I also faultily thought that spontaneity and approaching women are mutually exclusive, so when I followed an exclusively passive approach I thought that I was being authentic and putting forth my natural self.

I highly appreciate your analysis - quite eye opening for me!

 

[maverickbh]

When she makes an effort to flirt with you long enough and you feel it is at the high point of the interaction, give her “plausible deniability.”

Plausible deniability is an excuse to be alone without saying “Let’s have sex.”

For example, “Yeah we should watch a movie together sometime,” or “You wanna go grab a bite to eat?” It could be anything.

What I would do is I would base the plausible deniability on an activity that we already talked about.

One time a woman I met at the clubs straight up said “You are not coming in” and I tossed aside her token resistance and said “You know that book we were talking about earlier, the one that changed my life?” Let’s go read it. Do you have internet?” We walked into her apartment and the clothes came off immediately.

There have been times where I would be hanging out in my social circles and a female friend would ask me something like “Hey do you like lasagna? I’m making some tonight. You can come over if you want.” And next thing you know we are hooking up.

Plausible deniability is universal code for “Let’s get together and have some fun but at the same time, pretend we are just hanging out”.

It’s happened to me hundreds of times throughout high school, college, the real world, etc. Since you said you missed out on socialization, this is the one thing to look for or create yourself when the interaction hits a high point. I say look for it because 75% of the time, if the chick is digging you, SHE would be the one who would try to give you plausible deniability. And if you act like you have no idea what she is talking about, the window will close.

Mostly women do it so that they don't risk rejection. If you don't take the hint, they can still move on in a civil manner. Usually when women seduce you, it is subtle to the point where guys with zero experience will weed themselves out.

Thanks, stormrider. This explains a lot of my past missed opportunities. Now it makes sense.

I had so many girls come to me with a high attraction and send signals but I missed them out of ignorance of their subtle language. They must've either internalized rejection or thought I was weak. Eventually they all just avoid me because it gets awkward. I just didn't know at the time that they wanted escalation...

Such a small window of actualizing the sexual possibility. Either boldly pick up on it when it's there or it's lost forever.

 

[maverickbh]

Why are you even thinking about this??
Just be you is the biggest bullshyt trap of all time.
How will you as a man take on different situations in your life??
What if your boss approached you tmmr and asked you to give a short intro presentation to a group of 50 ppl about a random topic??

Just be you??

Then I figure out who my audience are and tailor a business presentation to that end. I don't have to negate myself to operate in business, or really to do anything.

Each scenario/environment will require some unique set of knowledge and behavior, true, but you never have to negate who you are to fulfill them. It comes down to choosing what aspects of yourself to leverage to meet the goal at hand.

I believe that anything that is unnatural is unsustainable. Even if there are more girls to be had if I followed an unnatural, scripted game, I don't want it. The end wouldn't justify the mean for me. If it does for you, I respect that but it won't work for me.

 

[maverickbh]

Then I figure out who my audience are

And what if the audience and subject is something you don't know anything about?

If I can acquire the specialized knowledge in a timely fashion that wouldn't upself my client, then I do it. If not, then it's more efficient to have an expert do it and not me. I will volunteer to find an expert in the subject and collaborate with him. Point is, if I'm not fit for the task and I can't be fit for it in the window of time that I have, I will concede my lack of expertise to my boss and my client and do my best to find an alternative solution.

 

[Kotaix]

Why are you even thinking about this??
Just be you is the biggest bullshyt trap of all time.
How will you as a man take on different situations in your life??
What if your boss approached you tmmr and asked you to give a short intro presentation to a group of 50 ppl about a random topic??

Just be you??

Yes, you just be you. If you sucks, then you need to fix it.

If your boss approaches you and asks you to give a presentation about a random topic tomorrow to 50 people, you can choke up, be a nervous wreck and suck ass; or you can be confident, do your research and try your best. Even if you fail, you still gave it your best. And that is enough.

If you are occupying your mind worrying about saying the right thing at the right time, you're not being yourself because you aren't even halfway present. You miss out on life when you do this. You don't see what is right in front of your eyes because you're not paying attention. How many times has someone been talking to you and you didn't hear a word they said because you were busy thinking? Or driven miles without being aware of anything around you?

In the case of a date, you can try some c0cky funny PUA technique, or you can look her in the eyes thinking about how you want to push her up against a wall and give it to her hard. The former is a con, the latter is the honest to god truth. Guess which approach she's going to respond to, assuming she's into you.

 

[zekko]

Yes, you just be you. If you sucks, then you need to fix it.

Agree, this is where self improvement comes in. There's an old PUA saying: "The self is always coming through". Your best bet is to be authentic. Be the person you aspire to be. Anything else is kind of like posting a catfish picture, except you're doing it with your personality.