Priorities in Marriage & Why Marriages Fail

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

So I got to contemplating something I read several days ago, and it really resonated with me. I didn’t piece it all together immediately in my mind because I was being intellectually lazy lol but I knew rather quickly that it was truth:

Here’s the very most basic thing you look for.

A woman who you find sexually attractive who is into you and understands the following:

Top Priority is to be your LOVER
Second Priority is WIFE/PARTNER to you.
Third Priority is MOTHER to your children

You can lay out those priorities and dictate them in fact but that’s the correct order.

As told to me by my grandmother, who was born in 1909 and was happily married twice & widowed twice. God rest her wise soul.

Lover...Wife...Mother.

No exceptions

Now I’m sure all you jackasses know that I’m probably the biggest nuisance in regards to arguing with BeExcellent, but this was still something that really made sense to me when I read it because it perfectly made out what people get wrong about marriage and why they fail. Here’s the breakdown:

If you want to have a successful marriage,
you have to get your priorities straight. Your top 3 priorities should be:

1) Being a good lover
2) Being a good partner/spouse
3) Your kids

In that order.

And yes, you read that correctly—your kids do NOT come first. There are many reasons for this, the first of which is to give them some freedom/autonomy so that they have room to **** up, so-to-speak, at a young age. This is important because ****ing up as a kid isn’t as detrimental to your entire life as it is when you’re 40. Not to mention, experience is the best teacher; as much as would want to help and protect your child, you’ll have to realize that by watching over them all the time, you’re not letting them grow and develop as a person of their own.

Which leads me to my next point: giving them autonomy along with them learning from experience will indirectly cause them to develop a stronger sense of self and grant them personal sovereignty over themselves at an earlier age. In doing so, they will grow and develop more as human beings overall because of it. It will also prevent them from having to rely on mommy and daddy all the time, and it teaches them responsibility and how to take care of themselves. In other words, they mature more than they would have otherwise. This is important to do while they’re still young because their brains are still developing. The things they learn now will be forever cemented into who they are when they become adults, and that’s why them having experience is so important.

Another reason for your priorities to be in this order is because you and your spouse MUST be sexually attracted to each other so that both of you are satisfied with each other and do not look elsewhere, as that would break the marriage (which would be stressful for your kids as well). And yet another reason is so that you don’t use your kids as an excuse to neglect your partner. That will cause said partner to build up resentment towards you AND the kids which isn’t even their fault really. Plus, let’s face it—kids suck sometimes. In fact, not sometimes but a lot of times. That stress will go ahead and weigh on you (both of you), and then you’ll start to blame your partner for it since they are technically his/her kids too.

In reality it isn’t their fault, it’s just that being a parent is stressful. If you prioritize being a lover to your partner (while they also prioritize being a lover to you too), you guys will just naturally care about each other. And on top of that, sex relieves a lot of the stress. So by prioritizing being a good lover and being a good partner over kids, not only do you not have the stress that you otherwise would have had, but you are also relieving more stress at a higher rate than you would have too.

~~~

Now, this is NOT an excuse to neglect your kids. You do not be selfish about yourself and your own wants and desires. YOUR needs go way down to the bottom of the list. In fact, YOUR needs are pretty much nonexistent at this point since your hands will be full. Once you start a family, you no longer have any needs because you need to focus on the family and on your marriage now. You had all the time in the world for your selfish wants and desires back when you were single. Now is the time to put all that aside because you have the lives of others resting on your shoulders.

~~~

There’s more. A problem that many couples have is that once they move in together, they stop going out on dates, stop flirting with each other, and they stop trying to court each other entirely. Not just that, but they lose themselves. They lose their looks and their passion for life along with the passion they had for each other; they just lose the passion that they had before. Like the game just stops for them. And that’s not good at all. Exercise should be mandatory for pretty much everyone, and you and your partner should still be willing to try new things together. Now, you might be thinking “but wait, you just said that your own personal priorities are practically non-existent, yet now you’re saying not to lose your passion for life/yourselves”.

Well, that’s exactly why you still need to court each other, i.e. mess around with each other, flirt with each other, go out on dates together, etc. This way, you are not only meeting priorities #1 and #2, but you are also ensuring that you do not lose yourselves nor your passion for life. You and her are doing what originally attracted you two to each other. And that is key.

As for your own needs—your partner should be taking care of you, and you should be taking care of them. The reason why this is better than normal is because it also means you will bond with each other more than you would otherwise, which will strengthen your relationship/marriage with each other, and when that happens, you WILL also care about your kids more too just as a side effect of your better relationship/bond/love for your significant other. It’s all just one big feedback loop. The only problem with this is that it does require a lot of energy, both mental and physical, and you cannot fall short. If one person slacks just a little bit, it throws everything out of place. You have to be proactive and cannot be lazy. You AND your partner. Otherwise, stress will build up much like how it does in other marriages. And while it may require less energy to not be as proactive, your life will be a lot more stressful and a LOT less fulfilling. And when that happens, things become much more daunting, which will cause you to just not want to deal with anything. Then you’ll slack off even more, which only worsens the daunting-ness and the stress, etc. It will end up becoming one big negative feedback loop.

So yeah, don’t slack off and don’t fall short. You’re gonna have to always put in energy and effort, but in the end, it’ll be that much more rewarding because of it.

~~~

So what do you guys think? Am I talking out of my ass or am I onto something? I’d like to hear it.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

good rationale; this is what my parents did, both grandparents

 

[RickTheToad]

So I got to contemplating something I read several days ago, and it really resonated with me. I didn’t piece it all together immediately in my mind because I was being intellectually lazy lol but I knew rather quickly that it was truth:


Now I’m sure all you jackasses know that I’m probably the biggest nuisance in regards to arguing with BeExcellent, but this was still something that really made sense to me when I read it because it perfectly made out what people get wrong about marriage and why they fail. Here’s the breakdown:

If you want to have a successful marriage,
you have to get your priorities straight. Your top 3 priorities should be:

1) Being a good lover
2) Being a good partner/spouse
3) Your kids

In that order.

And yes, you read that correctly—your kids do NOT come first. There are many reasons for this, the first of which is to give them some freedom/autonomy so that they have room to **** up, so-to-speak, at a young age. This is important because ****ing up as a kid isn’t as detrimental to your entire life as it is when you’re 40. Not to mention, experience is the best teacher; as much as would want to help and protect your child, you’ll have to realize that by watching over them all the time, you’re not letting them grow and develop as a person of their own.

Which leads me to my next point: giving them autonomy along with them learning from experience will indirectly cause them to develop a stronger sense of self and grant them personal sovereignty over themselves at an earlier age. In doing so, they will grow and develop more as human beings overall because of it. It will also prevent them from having to rely on mommy and daddy all the time, and it teaches them responsibility and how to take care of themselves. In other words, they mature more than they would have otherwise. This is important to do while they’re still young because their brains are still developing. The things they learn now will be forever cemented into who they are when they become adults, and that’s why them having experience is so important.

Another reason for your priorities to be in this order is because you and your spouse MUST be sexually attracted to each other so that both of you are satisfied with each other and do not look elsewhere, as that would break the marriage (which would be stressful for your kids as well). And yet another reason is so that you don’t use your kids as an excuse to neglect your partner. That will cause said partner to build up resentment towards you AND the kids which isn’t even their fault really. Plus, let’s face it—kids suck sometimes. In fact, not sometimes but a lot of times. That stress will go ahead and weigh on you (both of you), and then you’ll start to blame your partner for it since they are technically his/her kids too.

In reality it isn’t their fault, it’s just that being a parent is stressful. If you prioritize being a lover to your partner (while they also prioritize being a lover to you too), you guys will just naturally care about each other. And on top of that, sex relieves a lot of the stress. So by prioritizing being a good lover and being a good partner over kids, not only do you not have the stress that you otherwise would have had, but you are also relieving more stress at a higher rate than you would have too.

~~~

Now, this is NOT an excuse to neglect your kids. You do not be selfish about yourself and your own wants and desires. YOUR needs go way down to the bottom of the list. In fact, YOUR needs are pretty much nonexistent at this point since your hands will be full. Once you start a family, you no longer have any needs because you need to focus on the family and on your marriage now. You had all the time in the world for your selfish wants and desires back when you were single. Now is the time to put all that aside because you have the lives of others resting on your shoulders.

~~~

There’s more. A problem that many couples have is that once they move in together, they stop going out on dates, stop flirting with each other, and they stop trying to court each other entirely. Not just that, but they lose themselves. They lose their looks and their passion for life along with the passion they had for each other; they just lose the passion that they had before. Like the game just stops for them. And that’s not good at all. Exercise should be mandatory for pretty much everyone, and you and your partner should still be willing to try new things together. Now, you might be thinking “but wait, you just said that your own personal priorities are practically non-existent, yet now you’re saying not to lose your passion for life/yourselves”.

Well, that’s exactly why you still need to court each other, i.e. mess around with each other, flirt with each other, go out on dates together, etc. This way, you are not only meeting priorities #1 and #2, but you are also ensuring that you do not lose yourselves nor your passion for life. You and her are doing what originally attracted you two to each other. And that is key.

As for your own needs—your partner should be taking care of you, and you should be taking care of them. The reason why this is better than normal is because it also means you will bond with each other more than you would otherwise, which will strengthen your relationship/marriage with each other, and when that happens, you WILL also care about your kids more too just as a side effect of your better relationship/bond/love for your significant other. It’s all just one big feedback loop. The only problem with this is that it does require a lot of energy, both mental and physical, and you cannot fall short. If one person slacks just a little bit, it throws everything out of place. You have to be proactive and cannot be lazy. You AND your partner. Otherwise, stress will build up much like how it does in other marriages. And while it may require less energy to not be as proactive, your life will be a lot more stressful and a LOT less fulfilling. And when that happens, things become much more daunting, which will cause you to just not want to deal with anything. Then you’ll slack off even more, which only worsens the daunting-ness and the stress, etc. It will end up becoming one big negative feedback loop.

So yeah, don’t slack off and don’t fall short. You’re gonna have to always put in energy and effort, but in the end, it’ll be that much more rewarding because of it.

~~~

So what do you guys think? Am I talking out of my ass or am I onto something? I’d like to hear it.

You make a point by, putting your spouse on a higher level than your offspring, but the problem may not be the dude, it could be the lady. When they have offspring, they go into mom mode and the hubby is kicked to the side. It is probably not intentional, but it happens. So the kids are priority # 1 for the mom. The hubby may also bring the kids as priority # 1 in order to keep the peace in the marriage. Thus, you now have the slow decline in the marriage. So, it generally works like this, they get married, then within 2 years, they have a kid or two, five years later the epiphany stage starts and that is when the divorce is around the corner.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

You make a point by, putting your spouse on a higher level than your offspring, but the problem may not be the dude, it could be the lady. When they have offspring, they go into mom mode and the hubby is kicked to the side. It is probably not intentional, but it happens. So the kids are priority # 1 for the mom. The hubby may also bring the kids as priority # 1 in order to keep the peace in the marriage. Thus, you now have the slow decline in the marriage. So, it generally works like this, they get married, then within 2 years, they have a kid or two, five years later the epiphany stage starts and that is when the divorce is around the corner.

I’m aware of this, I’m just saying this is what should be used for a successful marriage. She should understand this concept as well. Unfortunately, that may not be the case the vast majority of times. But it’s good to keep in mind overall.

 

[Roober]

Agreed. The dynamic is certainly challenged in the early years of child rearing where the little monsters require such an enormous amount of time and resources.

However, this should last no more than 2-3 years. The problem arises when bad habits develop during that period and the couple is unable to return to their previous state, albeit slightly altered with a child, but you can certainly resume it. From what I've witnessed, it's usually a combination of...

-Men letting women take the lead, a product of the feminist idea that "women knows what best for the child"

-Men not chasing their purpose, or becoming complacent for the sake of security

-Men using distractions (work, games, sports, alcohol) to distance himself from his family

A good woman will give him a swift kick in the @$$ to get his act together. The other side of that coin is divorce and child support.

 

[RickTheToad]

I’m aware of this, I’m just saying this is what should be used for a successful marriage. She should understand this concept as well. Unfortunately, that may not be the case the vast majority of times. But it’s good to keep in mind overall.

Not all ladies think like that. Ladies have logic, but when their emotions and maternal instinct take over, logic goes out the window. You can ask @BeExcellent her opinion. She seems pretty logical at times. I do not know if we have any other female posters still at SS. Seems AJ and Sazc are MIA.

 

[BeExcellent]

So I got to contemplating something I read several days ago, and it really resonated with me. I didn’t piece it all together immediately in my mind because I was being intellectually lazy lol but I knew rather quickly that it was truth:


Now I’m sure all you jackasses know that I’m probably the biggest nuisance in regards to arguing with BeExcellent, but this was still something that really made sense to me when I read it because it perfectly made out what people get wrong about marriage and why they fail. Here’s the breakdown:

If you want to have a successful marriage,
you have to get your priorities straight. Your top 3 priorities should be:

1) Being a good lover
2) Being a good partner/spouse
3) Your kids

In that order.

And yes, you read that correctly—your kids do NOT come first.

Which leads me to my next point: giving them autonomy along with them learning from experience will indirectly cause them to develop a stronger sense of self and grant them personal sovereignty over themselves at an earlier age. In doing so, they will grow and develop more as human beings overall because of it.

Another reason for your priorities to be in this order is because you and your spouse MUST be sexually attracted to each other so that both of you are satisfied with each other and do not look elsewhere, as that would break the marriage

In reality it isn’t their fault, it’s just that being a parent is stressful. If you prioritize being a lover to your partner (while they also prioritize being a lover to you too), you guys will just naturally care about each other. And on top of that, sex relieves a lot of the stress.

~~~

Now, this is NOT an excuse to neglect your kids.

~~~

you still need to court each other, i.e. mess around with each other, flirt with each other, go out on dates together, etc. This way, you are not only meeting priorities #1 and #2, but you are also ensuring that you do not lose yourselves nor your passion for life. You and her are doing what originally attracted you two to each other. And that is key.

As for your own needs—your partner should be taking care of you, and you should be taking care of them.

So yeah, don’t slack off and don’t fall short. You’re gonna have to always put in energy and effort, but in the end, it’ll be that much more rewarding because of it.

~~~

So what do you guys think? Am I talking out of my ass or am I onto something? I’d like to hear it.

I had to shorten your quote as I was over character limit...Here are some thoughts:

Marriage, done properly, is until death do us part. Now I and many here have fallen short of that in first marriages (and perhaps some in subsequent marriages as well) but until death is the idea.

My grandmother lived by those priorities and taught my sisters and I the wisdom therein. As parents you raise children only for a season. You are a lover and spouse for the rest of your life. These priorities reflect that.

There is another important implication inherent in these priorities. That is to model for your children what a successful marriage relationship looks like so your kids know and have a template to follow. My parents divorced when I was 16, and had a dead marriage for years preceding the divorce, their split was a relief in some ways...and their example of a marriage relationship was poor.

But I saw parents of people I was close to who did exhibit great marriage relationships. One couple I knew regularly went country dancing together. They knew each other's moves as though two bodies were moving at the directive of one mind, and it was always beautiful to see them dance together. They were always sweet toward one another, always in love (even through trying times). Another couple escaped the fall of the Iron Curtain in Eastern Europe as teens before they were married. They made it to Austria together on foot through a mine field, were refugees in England where they spoke no English, and eventually they immigrated to the US where he became a renowned physician and she his devoted wife...they had 4 children, who were friends of mine...I used to see them out for walks together in the evenings. He in his suspenders and dress shoes and shirt, she with her hand entwined in his, strolling and chatting together.

I know there are some around here who do aspire to marriage at some point. A stable family is still possible if you choose your woman wisely and keep your priorities straight. The priorities my grandmother espoused were for the female. Lover, Wife/Partner, Mother...

For the male its a little different IMO:

1. Leader (of the Marriage and the Family)
2. Lover
3. Husband/Partner and Provider* (*if you want a traditional family where your wife can focus on nurturing children as part of her duties to you and the Family)
4. Father

You do not neglect the children. Rather the children learn their place in the family and the world through correct priorities existing in the marriage. As ITDG noted this establishes greater responsibility, maturity and independence in the children. It avoids entitlement.

Even though I am a divorced mother, the relationship with my ex husband is close such that the children see they must differentiate for themselves and must think about how to manage life for themselves in adulthood. They see my ex and I as adults first and parents second. They know our lives do not revolve around them and this teaches them not to expect handouts. They know effort and achievement is important. That is what we stress to them as parents. So far they are growing into well adjusted young adults with their own ambitions and desires. And my ex and I advise them as best we are able to accomplish these things. But we lead our own lives as well.

I know many couples who married in their youth, and who are happy together and whose marriages are robust and beautiful. Some married only a short time, others over 60 years. Happy marrieds exhibit a lightness of being between them, a charming acceptance of one another and a love that radiates outward and shines to others around them. It is a beautiful thing to see and something worth aspiring to.

ITDG, I am pleased my grandmother's wisdom resonates with you as it has with me. Look for a woman who has this kind of character and you may just find something that is truly worth having. I have no doubt of your ability to lead well and be a masculine man. You will find someone who is worthy. Just keep asking the right questions and exploring while keeping your eyes and ears wide open.

Cheers, BE

 

[BeExcellent]

Don't know if we can summon her, but paging @penkitten who married a man from right here on SS and has raised children with him...

Her input would be valuable for the thread.

 

[Spaz]

The more steps or details you create to have a successful marriage or LTR, the more likely you'll fail.

There's only 1 step or process you need to know and that supercedes everything.

I have used it to remain in an LTR with 2 women that has lasted longer then most marriages here.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Men, do not delude yourselves.

Females of all species are wired, from a DNA and genetic standpoint, to put offspring above all else. It ensures the survival of our or any species. The male's goal of any species, per their DNA and genetic wiring, is to spread as much of their DNA in the species population as possible. Hence, women nest and men roam.

You cannot un-wire and change 100,000+ years of DNA coding based on a few years of recent dating trends, technology, and social media.

Certainly there are exceptions to every rule, and women have become more independent and promiscuous, but every SS member on this board who has an modicum of common sense will also agree that they are always looking for that one DJ/Alpha/Real Man to sweep her off her feet so she can be done with the dating merry go round, hence "nest.". Women have "biological clocks" for a reason. Most men try to f*uck as many women as possible. It's ALL in our wiring.

The main reason for divorce among couples with kids is that they do spend so much time rearing and raising them that they do not spend enough time nurturing and growing their own relationship. So at some point they find themselves living with a stranger or with someone they don't even really care for anymore because the relationship died at the expense of raising the kids, working two jobs, managing a household, having a social life, caring for aging parents, etc., etc. It's almost like when you decide to marry and have kids, you know at some point it's going to end. The goal wasn't really the happy marriage, but raising happy, healthy productive kids/young adults--and that SHOULD be the goal. So at some point, usually the man, must pay punitive damages (child support, alimony, loss of property and $) for this "privilege."

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Females of all species are wired, from a DNA and genetic standpoint, to put offspring above all else. It ensures the survival of our or any species. The male's goal of any species, per their DNA and genetic wiring, is to spread as much of their DNA in the species population as possible. Hence, women nest and men roam.

You cannot un-wire and change 100,000+ years of DNA coding based on a few years of recent dating trends, technology, and social media.

I am beginning to challenge this concept. You’re only young/strong from about the ages of 15-40 years old. That’s 25 years. Sure you can bag some younger women, but they all have severe daddy issues and/or are just using you.

Furthermore, married women with kids will cheat. Even pregnant women. They will cheat with the right man. This alone negates the whole ‘evolutionary theory’ argument at least to a degree. What I’m saying is that you should ALWAYS be that man. Even if you’re in a relationship.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

1. Leader (of the Marriage and the Family)
2. Lover
3. Husband/Partner and Provider* (*if you want a traditional family where your wife can focus on nurturing children as part of her duties to you and the Family)
4. Father

Interesting. The thing is, being a good lover isn’t just in the bedroom, it’s also outside of the bedroom, and leadership is apart of that. It should be something engrained within yourself regardless of marriage or anything like that. That’s why I didn’t put specifics.

You do not neglect the children. Rather the children learn their place in the family and the world through correct priorities existing in the marriage.

As parents you raise children only for a season. You are a lover and spouse for the rest of your life. These priorities reflect that.

These are gold.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

Don't know if we can summon her, but paging @penkitten who married a man from right here on SS and has raised children with him...

Her input would be valuable for the thread.

where is she?(not specifically but as in can she come back posting please?)

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

where is she?(not specifically but as in can she come back posting please?)

Doing other stuff. She married the ‘legendary’ Giovanni Casanova from the DJ Bible. Pretty cool tbh

 

[Lynx nkaf]

Doing other stuff. She married the ‘legendary’ Giovanni Casanova from the DJ Bible. Pretty cool tbh

oh ok. Maybe in the future then. Maybe this forum is outside their frame now.

 

[penkitten]

Hey everyone. Sorry it's been so long since I checked in. This was a great post. It's also the post to tell you all that we grew apart and even though we were under the same roof, we just weren't spending any time together. We didn't have the wisdom of this thread from the beginning. We decided to get divorced 3 years ago. Since then, I have remarried and he is about to remarry.

 

[BeExcellent]

Nice to see you and glad you are both doing well. I’ve always appreciated your perspective here.

Cheers, BE

 

[HyenaPrince]

The men who do this end up with to do lists and pain. Effeminate men.
The trick is to learn how to read the emotional intellect but stay in your masculine.
You cannot fight the emotional logic. Eventually it will blow up if you try to control it. Ignoring their emotions in an LTR is just as destructive.
Awareness and reading were she is emotionally is key.
Then you can lead from there.

How she gets in state A might seem eradic and illogical to you as a man but she dont give a fck how she got there.
Except it.

Ever here women say. "Just listen and try not to figure it out"

Exactly. You have to be emotionally aware, but not give in to her way of thinking. Read between the lines and adapt your language to her state of mind. She'll love you for it. We're men, not her female friends.

 

[TonyTenner]

Interesting read. Obviously I am new here. There’s all kinds of stuff in there. I’ve been kind of lurking around for a while.
I’m curious about this post though...



See, I’m of the opinion that even committing to a woman, let’s say a marriage, in itself, shifts a lot of things from the man to the woman.

take @BeExcellent and her numerous marriages despite her grandmother’s philosophy. I read a post a few days back where she loves players. This makes much more sense. My question would be, did she marry players? Or did she marry good men (by weird social standards) and keep bouncing back to players?

Im curious what the one thing this guy @Spaz wrote about. Numerous men have spoken about wanting a family in a couple of threads. I can see where and why they say that.

With the huge shift towards the woman after getting married, and make no mistake it’s huge and don’t underestimate it. It will spin nearly all men into the ground like a shot down jet.

It is unrealistic to think that dates with a wife will prolong a marriage or even make it a good one. I’ve known many a man to do this. Is going out dancing in bars and clubs with the wife the glue? I have not observed this to be true. In fact, just the opposite.
Entertaining her for 40 or 50 years just so she won’t blast out of there chasing a new shiny thing that entertains her is a bit nuts.

Once the time where you can’t keep your hands off each other turns to something else, what is her incentive? It’s like the whole think is about benefiting her and keeping her happy. True a man is born to progress and continue to improve. Better hunter. Better warrior. Better provider etc.

In a supposed civilized world, its all leaning to her. Are you seeing it? It’s like a man is buying a relationship with a woman and the payments never end. How could a man ever hope to be himself in that world of perpetual payments of entertainment and leaning into a woman’s existence? I just don’t see it.

It’s really hard for me to buy into the idea that man exists to serve a woman’s emotional states And that he needs to keep her on cloud nine when in fact, that is impossible give the emotional nature of a woman. A man’s purpose is servitude? Since when does a man build a life for them both within the context of this discussion and still be a protector, her safe zone, her rock? This is all wrong and full a shyt.

My own parents' marriage is proof it is possible. Married for 48 years. I only ever saw them have one fight, about 30 years ago. It was a huge one. But that was it, none before, or since. It's tricky to distill down why they have had such a successful marriage. But I'll try. My father's sole focus, his entire life, has been his job (he's a farmer). Me, my siblings and my mother always came second. When we would go on holidays once a year, he would come for the first day, then go back to the farm. 364 days of farming 16 hours a day. My Mum was the one who did 99% of the parenting. But she never neglected him. She naturally defaulted to him, and still does. But not in a supplication way. They call each others bull****. If my Dad has had one too many drinks, and starts rambling, she'll shut him down. The same as true if my Mum is making a mountain out of a molehill.

So my Dad did what is advised here, and he did it without thinking. Complete obsession with his job (and by default, bettering himself), which made him a better provider, a better husband, and my Mum a better wife. I'm seeing them later today and they'll be sitting around the kitchen table, chatting amicably about the days political events, as they have done for 48 years. I've never seen him make any effort to entertain her. He is just naturally very good at being a Man, and everything else fell into place.

 

[TonyTenner]

I understand. So can you reconstruct that? Your father most likely has no inkling of any or this red pill stuff. Would you say he’s operating on natural instincts or learned masculinity?
If so...who is missing what? Men missing masculinity is a given.

It's completely natural to him. You have to be a very capable Man to be a farmer. You need to be an electrician, an engineer, a carpenter, a herdsman, a vet. That day to day work fosters more masculinity. They both naturally fell into very traditional roles of the husband and the wife. They are quite an extraordinary fit. Can you reconstruct it? I think so, though it's obviously more difficult with both parties having so many more options these days.