Starting to disagree more and more with PUA tactics

[Infern0]

As I've gotten older and gained more experience, I've found that success with women tends to be an organic result of a life being well lived.

I see the following as the important areas which if they are out of balance will hold you back.

1. Healthy mind/inner peace

2. Career/Goals being focused on (AKA purpose)

3. Physical appearance being taken care of (Physically fit, healthy, well groomed and dressed)

4. Social life decent (getting out, being active, meeting new people)

I reckon if you have all these going decently well, it's not hard at all to meet women and have at least decent success with them. But if one of these pillars falls, it gets precarious, more than one and you are toast.

When I see a lot of PUA videos I shake my head, endless cold approaches, stupid "Drills", weird affirmations. A lot of the time it's embarrassing, cringeworthy. You see them taking out a badly dressed, out of shape loner and getting them to spam cold approach, stating that if they make better eye contact they will get success. Lol.

I saw a couple of guys at a house party recently, skinny fat type physiques, I'll fitting clothes from like 3-4 years ago fashion wise, standing in the corner just radiating beta energy, the exact guys you see in PUA videos, the other dudes at the party were in great shape, sharply dressed, I guarantee no matter what PUA tactics you got those first two to use they weren't getting anything. They'd be better off lifting for 6 months and getting a relevant wardrobe.

My point on it is these guys are a business at the end of the day, and I reckon they are marketing a "product" which you don't actually need. I relate it to a quack doctor prescribing insulin to a pre-diabetic who actually just needs to stop drinking 4 energy drinks a day.

"Game" comes naturally when you are "doing well". in your life.

 

[Spaz]

The balance is just 3.

1. Mentally
2. Spiritually
3. Physically

Those 3 must grow in harmony.

Only then can you have a strong sense of self that helps set a strong foundation for ur frame.

 

[characternote]

I have similar thoughts (although not identical) based on my experience

"Game" comes naturally when you are "doing well". in your life.

I'd say being 'happy' is almost enough in terms of 'game'. I know people who are FAR from 'doing well' in that they've never worked, don't drive and will never have any money etc etc, but they have impressive sex lives with pretty young girls that many are jealous of. They are happy and content to just make a few bucks selling drugs and they enjoy their lifestyles. Combine that with not being too 'weird' and being somewhat decent looking, and they bang tonnes of very hot young girls.

In terms of game and the technical side of things, i've had this feeling for a while that a lot of it really seems to do more harm than good! Lots of the techniques that are supposed to force attraction in some girl seem to just succeed in making you look a bit unusual! You see it in girls reactions in infields and stuff

''Make cold reads and statements instead of questions, bro! Questions make you look like an interviewer'' - I think this rule can make you look a bit odd, tbh. It's just not how normal people talk and makes you look a bit eccentric which will scare of young girls in particular. The goal is maybe to do nothing that can make you look remotely weird initlaly lol,

''DVH stories after the open'' - I think looks way too overfamiliar for one.

''Neg her and disqualify yourself after the open'' This can create an almost combative reaction. You need way more 'normal'/boring talk/rapport, before you can start negging girls and stuff here

When you break it down, most game techniques are really just FLIRITING! PUA's call it 'attraction building', though. But flirting with a girl doesn't make her attracted! It just shows her that you might be interested and gives her a chance to show her own interest without making it weird for her. It's good stuff. Flirting is good. But again, it doesn't make a girl attracted to you who isn't remotely attracted to you - and THAT is the lie we've been told about 'game'. That game is capable of this lol

I've always felt that 99% of successful infeilds were in spite of his lines and games as opposed to because of it. She was just into him and he had enough 'game' to not fuk it up

 

[MrWood]

goals when "flirting" are several-fold:
1. you are showing interest
2. you are trying to elevate "hi" into something interesting
3. you are bringing her into your frame
4. you are elevating her interest in you sexually by stimulating the interaction and causing reaction in her persona
5. you are literally hypnotizing her, creating trance... (why do you think her eyes dilate and things escalate toward sex?)

NLP and body language techniques (plus your game/frame) win out over PUA here, everytime
(PUA tried to incorporate the first two but got diluted into horrible "rules" and "routines" as OP described)

 

[Who Dares Win]

What do you mean, I tought the only thing we needed was "confidence"...

 

[Serenity]

Most people don't seem to notice this, but the basics of PUA just helps improve one single problem in some guys. That's being afraid of approaching women at all, that's all. If you don't have this problem then PUA won't do sh!t and will only seem like a money grabbing scam.

It works best on guys who otherwise have most of their sh!t together, but only have the one issue that they fear approaching women. It won't work that well for a completely out of touch nolifer.

The "routines" and silly affirmations they do is a bad crutch at best, it defeats the entire point. Guys who are struggling with this shouldn't find safety in planned routines and sh!t like that, they should learn to be comfortable with the unknown. Instead PUA tactics desperately attempt to reduce the unknown, essentially ruining any opportunity for surprises, both good and bad. I don't know about everyone else, but predictability is boredom and boredom is fvcking torture to me.

I'd rather improvise, explore uncharted terrain and get unique rewards. Anyone involved in PUA will probably die earlier from the boredom of their repetitive grind.

PUA's call it game, but it's more of a job, there's little fun in it. A fun game isn't pre-planned, it just unfolds as you go along and the unexpected is the whole fun of it.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

As I've gotten older and gained more experience, I've found that success with women tends to be an organic result of a life being well lived.

I see the following as the important areas which if they are out of balance will hold you back.

1. Healthy mind/inner peace

2. Career/Goals being focused on (AKA purpose)

3. Physical appearance being taken care of (Physically fit, healthy, well groomed and dressed)

4. Social life decent (getting out, being active, meeting new people)

I reckon if you have all these going decently well, it's not hard at all to meet women and have at least decent success with them. But if one of these pillars falls, it gets precarious, more than one and you are toast.

When I see a lot of PUA videos I shake my head, endless cold approaches, stupid "Drills", weird affirmations. A lot of the time it's embarrassing, cringeworthy. You see them taking out a badly dressed, out of shape loner and getting them to spam cold approach, stating that if they make better eye contact they will get success. Lol.

I saw a couple of guys at a house party recently, skinny fat type physiques, I'll fitting clothes from like 3-4 years ago fashion wise, standing in the corner just radiating beta energy, the exact guys you see in PUA videos, the other dudes at the party were in great shape, sharply dressed, I guarantee no matter what PUA tactics you got those first two to use they weren't getting anything. They'd be better off lifting for 6 months and getting a relevant wardrobe.

My point on it is these guys are a business at the end of the day, and I reckon they are marketing a "product" which you don't actually need. I relate it to a quack doctor prescribing insulin to a pre-diabetic who actually just needs to stop drinking 4 energy drinks a day.

"Game" comes naturally when you are "doing well". in your life.

A lot of pua is click bait and jargon now. There's guys who are lifting and or successful in the career life but don't pull. What amount of guys approach here? Most are getting cucked on tinder.

Self actualization is key. Red pill shows female nature. Pua pushes game and approaching. There's a puzzle to put together.

Its evident that few are handling their ****.

 

[illstep]

The question is whether it actually works or not! Seduction, I mean

Doesn't matter whether people disagree with it all - do the techniques/lines/tactis that 'coaches' are currently charging people crazy money for, actually 'work'

And by 'work', I mean, can an ugly little old man walk up too some stunning 18 year old in a bar and 'seduce' her (make her sexually attracted when to the point she wants to sleep with him depite her being repulsed at the idea when he opened her).

The general belief in the industry would have been a resounding ''of course!! learn game, bro!!!''' if that question was asked 15 years ago or so. (Peak mysterymethod days)

I get the feeling that nowadays, the general answer would be ''of course not, lol. In his case, he'd need to essentially 'buy' her if he wanted sex''

What's changed? Is it that people were more easily fooled into believing in magic back then, pre youtube days? Now we have more evidence to the contrary?

Is it that it DID used to work as advertised, but what with stuff like tinder and insta and social media, the landscape has changed to the point where the lines and techniques are just no match for a handsome face or whatever?

Something else??

I find the change interesting.

When I first joined rooshV - people got banned by him for suggesting that looks mattered. (reason: 'game denialism')
A few years later, he made a post that included the quote ''Game is just something to help you get laid with girls who like the way you look''. Quite the turn around, no? Then people WEREN'T getting banned for suggesting game isn't magic
Then people spoke less less about 'game' and more about, what was essentially 'sex tourism' lol. (travelling to poor countries as a wealthy white man and banging all the locals/low hanging fruit)
And eventually he went full nutbar, found 'god', and closed down the 'game' part of the forum

Even this forum has changed a lot in it's belief about 'game'. Take teh opening post for one lol

There's other examples, too - And I don't evne disagree. I just find it interesting how it's all changed, and i'm super curious as to why (obviously there are still 'coaches' out there who claim to get anyone laid with anyone they want with their 'game')

 

[skinnyguy]

I think the guys who pull the most don't think about it. They just pull.

Once you start pedestalizing the chick, thinking about how to get her into bed the best way, etc etc you mind fvck yourself into messing up and then as a result come to PUA forums in order to ensure a lay. But these tactics were designed to make money off guys who keep failing.

Yes, you need LMS. A guy with no LMS will struggle no matter what. But like someone said on here, being happy needs to come first before you fvck women.

I never believed in full out MGTOW because those guys are making their aura worse when in fact they still secretly want to get laid. Try just accepting everybody for who they are, and being your best self every day.

 

[Medina]

I know it's easy to write off PUA but I remember a time when online dating was viewed with absolute cringe yet now it's completely normal

Trends come and go. We men evolve. We adapt to Game. It's what we've always done , through out history

PUA was successful in the 90's & 00's when one night stands were big and people didn't get their social interactions from phones

In another 20 years online dating will bite the dust and a new tactic will emerge. You'll look back on these times of tinder with horror. Mark my words

 

[biggoal]

I know it's easy to write off PUA but I remember a time when online dating was viewed with absolute cringe yet now it's completely normal

Trends come and go. We men evolve. We adapt to Game. It's what we've always done , through out history

PUA was successful in the 90's & 00's when one night stands were big and people didn't get their social interactions from phones

In another 20 years online dating will bite the dust and a new tactic will emerge. You'll look back on these times of tinder with horror. Mark my words

Old is already starting to bite the dust. All the old apps seem to have less and less women on there and overall lower quality than even just a few years ago.

 

[Kotaix]

I think the guys who pull the most don't think about it. They just pull.

Once you start pedestalizing the chick, thinking about how to get her into bed the best way, etc etc you mind fvck yourself into messing up and then as a result come to PUA forums in order to ensure a lay. But these tactics were designed to make money off guys who keep failing.

There is a lot of truth to this. Yoda is actually very correct when he says "Do, or do not, there is no try."

The thing is though, learning to not try and simply DO something requires that you practice, a lot. Anyone who practices something long enough that they become excellent at it will eventually discover that the best way to do it is to just relax, do what they need to do and let the rest of it happen. Those of you who have achieved this will know what I'm saying, and those of you who haven't will have no idea what I'm talking about.

You don't need to practice pickup to learn this, any sufficiently difficult skill will teach you the same thing if you stick with it to the level of mastery. And it applies to everything in life, not just women.

In my case, I learned this from music: I always play better when I stop trying to play the right notes and trust myself to play them without trying, and it's at that point that you have fun and sound like a pro, because that's what pros do. I've also experienced it with motorcycles, relax and the bike will do exactly what you want, tense up and you're way more likely to crash.

This can't be learned from a book, it has to come from concerted effort where you confront your own failure and refuse to give up. PUAs make you practice because that's the only way you're going to realize that fact, but they're just providing you with an avenue to practice something which just so happens to be the thing you want. Paying for their service gets you skin in the game, and having coaches or mentors is very valuable in many aspects of life because of this, they will keep you accountable where you might have the urge to give up.

 

[zekko]

I'd say being 'happy' is almost enough in terms of 'game'. I know people who are FAR from 'doing well' in that they've never worked, don't drive and will never have any money etc etc, but they have impressive sex lives with pretty young girls that many are jealous of.

That's certainly true. But I don't think the OP's point is that you can't get women without having all those ducks in a row. He's saying guys with that all together should be able to get women without it being a major issue.

The general belief in the industry would have been a resounding ''of course!! learn game, bro!!!''' if that question was asked 15 years ago or so. (Peak mysterymethod days)

I get the feeling that nowadays, the general answer would be ''of course not, lol. In his case, he'd need to essentially 'buy' her if he wanted sex''

What's changed? Is it that people were more easily fooled into believing in magic back then, pre youtube days? Now we have more evidence to the contrary?

Yeah, in the early days of PUA there was a lot of blind faith in the concept. And people who questioned it tended to get shouted down. They used to delete posts here if someone said that looks mattered. Over time I think people saw that PUA really couldn't deliver on what it promised, although there are still some diehard supporters.

A lot probably depends on what your exact issue with women is, your sticking point. Some guys just need to be more proactive. They might try some techniques and think "Wow, this works great, those guys who said PUA doesn't work are full of sh!t". Those guys are probably more socially calibrated to begin with. But the more it doesn't work, the more the guy probably has to work on it, and the weirder his behavior gets lol.

 

[zinc4]

Looks triumph over our BS....just go out to a nightclub/disco with a very tall good looking guy if you don't believe it. He will get approached with all kinds of offers while you have to work for yours. I'm 6'2 by the way. I mean 6'6 and above plus good looking. The difference is mind boggling.

 

[biggoal]

Looks triumph over our BS....just go out to a nightclub/disco with a very tall good looking guy if you don't believe it. He will get approached with all kinds of offers while you have to work for yours. I'm 6'2 by the way. I mean 6'6 and above plus good looking. The difference is mind boggling.

But 98 percent of us are not over 6 6 lol. If so we wouldnt be here because if we were athletic or built wed be playing sports and stuff and would have no need to be here.

zdeno Chara is the tallest nhl player in history and is around 6 8 to 6 9.

When you get into 6 and a half feet range you just look clumsy and too tall. Just like 6 foot women just look too tall.

They used to make fun of chara for looking tall and goofy before he became a star.

 

[zinc4]

But 98 percent of us are not over 6 6 lol. If so we wouldnt be here because if we were athletic or built wed be playing sports and stuff and would have no need to be here.

zdeno Chara is the tallest nhl player in history and is around 6 8 to 6 9.

When you get into 6 and a half feet range you just look clumsy and too tall. Just like 6 foot women just look too tall.

They used to make fun of chara for looking tall and goofy before he became a star.

My wingmen are all around 6'6 and good looking not great I would say....they don't have to do much at all....women approach them. So...yeah...looks triumph over game unless you are just one of those super energetic life of the party type guys who become the most popular person in the room where ever they are I guess.

 

[zekko]

When you get into 6 and a half feet range you just look clumsy and too tall.

I have a friend who's 6'7", and when we were younger he would always get approached. In fact, when we got older he was a little lost when it came to women because he was used to being approached. Once that dried up, he wasn't sure what to do.

Some guys who are very tall will look awkward, but that's down to the individual. Some guys will just look awkward.

 

[Kotaix]

Looks triumph over our BS....just go out to a nightclub/disco with a very tall good looking guy if you don't believe it. He will get approached with all kinds of offers while you have to work for yours. I'm 6'2 by the way. I mean 6'6 and above plus good looking. The difference is mind boggling.

I've seen this happen, there's nothing to be done about it though, you are who you are and you can't change the hand you were dealt so best not to worry about it.

 

[AttackFormation]

This thing about getting approached if you have good enough looks and having to put in work if you don't that the last few posters have talked about. If that's a bit of an observation, think about this. For women, the other end of that equation is constantly watching their better looking friends get approached more and be treated better, while they are approached less and when they do guys treat them like it's implicit that they should be easier.

Once you think of it that way it's easy to see how a jaded, b1tchy exterior would be developed. Not that I see it in action anymore, I stopped going to bars and clubs many years ago.

Back to the OP, I think this thread is very, very old news preaching to the choir by this stage haha. We are all basically black pilled.

 

[biggoal]

I have a friend who's 6'7", and when we were younger he would always get approached. In fact, when we got older he was a little lost when it came to women because he was used to being approached. Once that dried up, he wasn't sure what to do.

Some guys who are very tall will look awkward, but that's down to the individual. Some guys will just look awkward.

I think the key is having muscle. If you're 6-6 and have pencil legs and arms then yea you will look awkward and super skinny like Slender Man character.