Is this still salvageable?

[halfguard]

47 - divorced. Been OLD for the last 5 years. I woke up one morning recently and realized that's not real. Banging fat 5's is failure. Always worked on myself but not Game. After reading Rational Male (among other books) my mind was blown. Started dressing better and being bolder.

I work remotely so I usually end up in this one Starbucks in my neighborhood. About 4 weeks ago I saw a mom with her two sons. Thought nothing of it. The two boys were doing their homework while she was either helping them or on her phone. I passively blew it off like she was a tutor. She was cute but it was 4 weeks ago. Although still clueless, I was even more clueless 4 weeks ago. Didn't even consider her a potential target. And I think I had seen them even a few weeks before that. All passive fleeting thoughts at the time.

Then this Monday - they were in Starbucks again. I was walking back from the bathroom and we held eye contact and smiled. Still didn't think much of it. I get alot of "friendly" smiles. I took her smile just like I would a 75 year old lady or the barrista behind the register. But I was sitting at the window and when she left they walked passed the window and we both held eye contact until she was out of my peripheral vision - that was a solid 3 to 5 seconds I guess, not sure. At the time I took it as a win and said next time she's in here I'll talk to her.

So I walk in tonight, laptop bag, dressed pretty good since I had a meeting earlier and I've learned not to dress like a herb. And we make immediate eye contact and she smiles and I smile. But dumbass me doesn't recognize her. She looked different and I didn't notice who she was sitting with. The other times she was in business casual clothes and it was the afternoon - after school. Tonight she was in jeans and sweatshirt, no makeup. Still cute. But it didn't register.

So the place is crowded. And I sit at a table perpendicular to hers. About 12 feet away separated by an aisle and another table. If I looked straight ahead I was looking at her profile. Not much eye contact since #1 I didn't realize it was her yet, but I did think she was cute anyway. #2 I thought the dude sitting next to her was her boyfriend or husband. She was being playful with the person. (It was her older son but I couldn't see him at that point so I didn't put 2 and 2 together).

Caught her looking maybe two times over an hour. In my pessimistic mind I figured she was just looking around and 2 times in an hour is not exactly alot. However, I did notice her at one point shift in her chair and sort of "face" me while she was on her phone. Like "opened" up to me sort of without doing a complete 90 degree. Like her body was not turned away from me but facing out into the room. Like instead of seeing her profile or back, she stayed in a position where I could see her front. If that makes sense. Remember, I still don't realize it is the same girl as the last two times so I just figure this is some other girl I am seeing for the first time. There was no "history".

Anyway - she gets up to leave and it is at that moment I realize it's her. I see her older son who was tucked into the corner. And the realization hits. This whole time it was the same girl I had seen two other times. We make quick eye contact but I look away because I am recovering from my F - up. I try and make eye contact again and she avoids mine as she walks by. And leaves with her two boys not taking a second look.

I figured I blew it. Like she is like "you p*ssy, you had multiple opportunities to escalate".

Now, this is not ONE-itis. I am still learning so I just want to know if this is still workable - And I am reading this right? Do I talk with her kids there? Assuming I am not delusional are my assumptions correct - that she seems interested and open for me to open a convo since this is like the 3rd or 4th time we've seen each other over like a month or two?

Also - sort of related - how do you know when you get an "immediate smile" from someone as opposed to they are interested smile. Some people's default is to just smile when they make eye contact. How do you discern both?

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

You have no idea what she's thinking. Even if you talk to her and she's pleasant, she could still secretly hate you. It's best not to read into things so heavily, or if you do remember that it's all speculation, a story you're making up and choosing to believe, meaningless.

Keep your analysis topical, it'll help foster a care free playful mood. Next time you see her open her up, be pleasant, and see if she's receptive. Since you both go to the same spot just feel her out, don't be outcome focused. Have a short convo and see how you feel about her. Women are completely disarmed when you're charming and aren't actively pushing to sex or close. They're forced to show their personality because that's all you're showing interest in(in the very beginning, you're qualifying her to see if she's worth more investment). If you don't like it or she mistakes your convo for advances and pushes you away it's her loss.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

You are over-analyzing so many things. I don't mean it as an insult. Most of us did in the beginning.

You can't always tell an interested smile from an immediate smile, so the proper course of action is to talk to any girl you want to regardless of whether you think she will be receptive. Trying to ensure she is going to be receptive before you approach is only an attempt to protect your ego from possible rejection - you shouldn't care about that in the first place, and secondly, you can get a really warm smile from a girl who will reject you very quickly if you talk to her, so don't worry about it. Approach whoever you want.

Second, if you are going to hold eye contact with a girl more than once, you had better approach her soon after that if you intend on ever approaching her. The longer you wait, the more she can tell you aren't confident.

Approaching around her kids is a bad idea in my book. I can't imagine anything more humiliating than being c*ck-blocked by a woman's teenage son hahaha. I mean, unless you are so socially skilled that you could play around with that whole situation and have them both laughing in the end but that's going to be tough if not impossible. Plus put yourself in her shoes.... if I were a woman I don't think I'd want to be flirting with strangers in front of my kids. But that's just me, and I'm also not a woman. Others may have a different opinion. You saw her when she was alone - that was the time to talk to her.

Don't worry so much about all that body language stuff, where she is facing, etc. That can be used to fine-tune your interactions but I wouldn't analyze it so much. Just shoot your shot. But having said that, it's great that you are paying attention to how women perceive you and act around you. Do keep noticing these things, and do keep holding eye contact with women but don't base your decision to talk to them around it.

Some of the best cold approaches I've ever had were with women who pretended they weren't interested in talking to me before I said anything to them. It mad such an impression on me that I'm unphased by it anymore and I actually purposely try to talk to any woman (hot or ugly - for practice) who appears to be avoiding my presence. Most times it's not that they don't want to talk - it's that they are really shy - either in general or because they think you are hot and are intimidated. For example, I sit down at a bar and the girl I sit down next to turns her body so it's facing a few degrees away from me instead of straight ahead. Every time I talk to a girl who does that, it turns into a great conversation. Or I'm at the grocery store and pull up to the tomato bin next to a girl at the avocado bin right next to me - she quickly scoots over to the next bin over. I chat her up and what do you know, she's really into talking to me. A girl walks by me, doesn't look directly at me but can sense I am looking at her so she looks away as she passes me. I happen by her later and talk to her, get her number, and we go on a date and make out.

My point is, again, you can't always tell so just shoot your shot.

 

[Serenity]

Seriously. All you've been doing is looking at her and your mind is going crazy. There's only one way to answer your questions, you walk up to her and start talking.

No amount of trying to figure out her head from inside your own head is going to get you anywhere closer to answering these questions. Stop analyzing and start taking action, it's way more effective.

 

[Black Widow Void]

You mentioned kids.... did you check her ring finger? I realize that this doesn't matter to some, but figured that I'd mention it.

You have to approach her next time. I say this because you've previously locked eye contact. If you don't make a move, she''ll either think of you as too shy or it'll eventually put her in a bad state of wondering why you stare.

Here's a couple of non-threatening approaches.

You: You must be a stockholder at this place.
Her: What?
You: Kidding of course. I seem to run into you a lot here. I'm _____ (insert name)

or

Start the conversation by acknowledging her drink.
If it's hot: "that coffee sure smells good. What type is it?"
If it's cold: "that drink looks delicious. What is it?"

or

You: You must have ridden the short bus to school.
Her: What?!
You: What do you mean ... "what?" You sure look special to me.

Okay, the last one was a joke. I'd stick to the first two.

 

[halfguard]

So you made 4-5 second eye contact with her a couple of times and then didn't recognize her in jeans and a sweatshirt?
???

Yeah. The other times were afternoon. Totally different vibe in the place. This time it was at night and unexpected I guess? Plus I'm new at this so I'm in my own head overthinking everything.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Way too much analyzing. Way too little action. You need to accept that in the beginning you are going to probably F up a lot of interactions with women you are very interested in dating. Just the way its going to work. Can't get better without failing a bunch of times to do it when you are starting from ground zero.

 

[andreihaha]

Seriously. All you've been doing is looking at her and your mind is going crazy. There's only one way to answer your questions, you walk up to her and start talking.

No amount of trying to figure out her head from inside your own head is going to get you anywhere closer to answering these questions. Stop analyzing and start taking action, it's way more effective.

Exactly.
Just a quick talk, like a min should help you undertand if she feels any attraction to you.
If she does, good, you know and can take further action. If she doesn't, you don't bother with her no more and look for someone else. Either way, this is the way to go. Nothing to lose.

 

[Glassguy]

@Black Widow Void has a good opener in his first one.

Another quick and easy thing to do is the next time you see her (like as soon as you know she is there...none of this waiting around BS) ask her to come over. When she gets to you just say:

You: We are going to have to stop meeting like this- with a smile
Her: blah blah
You: Im Glassguy. Whats your name?
Her: Blah blah
You: Maybe we should go in together and invest in Starbucks stocks and at least be making some profit off this place

Then just go into a small conversation. If at any point she has to get back to her table, OR after a few minutes of chit chat, tell her you want to put your number in her phone and you can resume the conversation later.

Take her phone, enter your number and save it as "Attractive starbucks guy". Then send yourself a text from her phone to yours so you have her number.

Then chill out. Call her the next day and ask her to join you for a DRINK not Starbucks.

Michael Jordan- I missed 100% of the shots I didnt take.

Shoot your shot kid.

 

[lgbs2004]

Take her phone, enter your number and save it as "Attractive starbucks guy". Then send yourself a text from her phone to yours so you have her number.

This is golden!