“the-power-to-walk-away-from-a-girl” myth…ghosting?

[Rodrigo]

Hey fellas,

I’m sure everyone here has heard of or read, or listened to a bunch of coaches and mentors from the PUA and red pill society and they all put a great emphasis on the importance of a man being really capable of turning his back on a girl and walk away if “the deal” doesn’t work in his favour or there won’t be any ‘deal” in the cards to begin with.

Now, while we all know this “skill” is vital for any man out there and while we all agree that it’s just a caring-for-your-own-interest type of thing, I’d still want to ask how and when walking away and especially ghosting a chick may work for enhancing or –at least- sparkling any attraction in her in case it has been medium (or low/none for that matter)?

We all know that – theoretically speaking- a dude has much greater chances of attracting a lady if he’d just deprive her of attention, compliments and validation, play some push-pull game on her etc., instead of showering her with the aforementioned and chasing her down desperately.

And while we can agree on the fact that most often than not, walking away on a girl means one has likely failed to score a home run and he just wants to not waste his time and go explore some other options, then how would you explain the fact that even if you’ve been with a chick (a few weeks/dates), even slept together and you suddenly decide to drop her (due to a better option or you just haven’t been attracted enough to her), cut any communication all of a sudden, yet she wouldn’t bother going after you and chasing you and trying to re-attract you to her? And I’m referring to plain mediocre girls, not the top chicks.

Do women do any chasing today at all? Even after she'd already spread your legs for a guy? Even if she is a 4 and the guy is a solid 7? Even if she is 10 years older than the guy?

What are we talking about here?

-too much woman’s pride;

-entitlement of a princess, even if she is (objectively) a 49-er (Oh, I’d never chase a dude – even the hottest one. Dudes are supposed to do the chasing instead);

-she’s fully aware of the fact that even if she “lets you slip away”, 5 others will be willing to come to her and start courting her, even if she is fat/divorced/mean/dumb/single mom etc;

-she was not that attracted to the guy in the first place but he was fine enough and she just needed to get some anyhow (especially valid for ones that are not so pretty and don’t have a flock of guys around them on a daily basis?

Is that a trend we can find here? Would women ONLY do some chasing for men that are 9s and 10s (tall+handsome+wealthy+famous+confident+fancy car and his own home)

 

[oldmanofthesea]

You don't walk away to create attraction. That's the wrong frame. You walk away when you no longer desire her due to her present actions. This will cause SOME women to pursue, but most won't. It can't and shouldn't be relied upon as a "tactic" to generate attraction, because that shouldn't be your goal.

The "tactic" of walking away is often preached to beginners to get them out of the dancing monkey mindset, the oneitis mindset, and the chasing mindset, and instead get them more into the mindset of a DJ with abundance. It's contrived at first, but through this, the man learns what it feels like so he can exude it naturally. It helps many men to follow the process of seeing, then emulating, then being.

 

[lamath]

Only in the very short term, like duct tape. In fact it can even make her see you as a bad long term investment

Walking away to create attention is fake and will do this indeed.

However imo walking away and meaning it is an other thing, it will let her know that you see yourself as higher value and that you have options.
Moo point anyway walking away and meaning it, there is no coming back.

 

[Rodrigo]

I never wanted to discuss this as though it might be some wicked little trick you can pull on a girl for regaining her attention/attraction. We are aware that a man should be walking away for his own good, because he's being smart and values his time and once he ejects, he should never look back.

I was more curious as to what exactly happens in a girl's head whenever she gets ghosted and the man goes cold on her out of nowhere as at the same time she's been with him for a while and they've ended up in bed at least once.

OK, let me try to paraphrase my question:

Which type of guy would a woman be inclined to chase more?

1) The narcissistic, sociopath ******* who won't pick up his phone for days, treats her like garbage but she knows she has the relationship status with him and she subconsciously enjoys such a treatment, deep down in her head because it "makes things interesting" rather than routine.

2) the perfect 9, full of confidence, manliness, assertiveness, decent home and income who has treated her well but she's only hooked up with him a couple times and knows full well he is desired by plenty of other women who won't mind locking him down.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I never wanted to discuss this as though it might be some wicked little trick you can pull on a girl for regaining her attention/attraction. We are aware that a man should be walking away for his own good, because he's being smart and values his time and once he ejects, he should never look back.

I was more curious as to what exactly happens in a girl's head whenever she gets ghosted and the man goes cold on her out of nowhere as at the same time she's been with him for a while and they've ended up in bed at least once.

OK, let me try to paraphrase my question:

Which type of guy would a woman be inclined to chase more?

1) The narcissistic, sociopath ******* who won't pick up his phone for days, treats her like garbage but she knows she has the relationship status with him and she subconsciously enjoys such a treatment, deep down in her head because it "makes things interesting" rather than routine.

2) the perfect 9, full of confidence, manliness, assertiveness, decent home and income who has treated her well but she's only hooked up with him a couple times and knows full well he is desired by plenty of other women who won't mind locking him down.

#1 insults her ego and she will chase the validation.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Which type of guy would a woman be inclined to chase more?

Why does that matter? Be honest. The only reason to ask that question is to try to mold yourself into the kind of persona that can attract women through ghosting.

It's not about the guy. There are many variables. Her chasing or not after a ghosting is way more about her than about the guy.

 

[Rodrigo]

Why does that matter? Be honest. The only reason to ask that question is to try to mold yourself into the kind of persona that can attract women through ghosting.

It's not about the guy. There are many variables. Her chasing or not after a ghosting is way more about her than about the guy.

Wrong! I'm too old to mold myself only now to gain certain interest that way. As I clearly stated, I raised that question because I was curious about what goes thru a chick's mind when she gets ghosted (usually it's the other way around 8 out of 10 times) and secondly, I wanted to check other people's opinion on the popular cliche that "the more you act as a jerk and not giving a damn about women, the more they'll run after you".

 

[lamath]

If she has lasting high interest she would never test fate like that. That's what I'm saying. Usually there is some other guy or some deep seeded unhappiness that caused her to react in a way that demanded you walk.

I agree on this, however depending on situation (jealous women for.example)walking away can be a big hit on her ego and make her chase your validation.

When things are bad and you are just dumping her because you are afraid she is going to dump you first. It will be obvious to her.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I was more curious as to what exactly happens in a girl's head whenever she gets ghosted and the man goes cold on her out of nowhere as at the same time she's been with him for a while and they've ended up in bed at least once.

That's like a Viking wondering about the soul of some poor fvcker he just killed.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Wrong! I'm too old to mold myself only now to gain certain interest that way. As I clearly stated, I raised that question because I was curious about what goes thru a chick's mind when she gets ghosted (usually it's the other way around 8 out of 10 times) and secondly, I wanted to check other people's opinion on the popular cliche that "the more you act as a jerk and not giving a damn about women, the more they'll run after you".

What goes through her mind depends on the girl. Girls who want want they can't have or have abandonment issues will chase. Others will roll their eyes and move on, even if they really like the guy. You have to understand that women think differently from men. They are highly emotion-based. They aren't going to break down the ghosting/chasing into two sides of a yellow legal notepad with pros and cons on each side like a man trying to solve an engineering problem. So best not to wonder what goes through their minds. It doesn't matter.

The jerk question has been debated infinitely here. The answer is that most women don't want a jerk (unless they are seriously broken and don't feel they deserve better). Most women want a nice guy who possesses a few key qualities that nearly all jerks have: Masculinity, confidence, ownership of frame, lack of supplicating to women, screening instead of being screened, abundance, non-neediness, and an IDGAF mentality on what others think about them. You can be nice and possess those key qualities. That's what most women want.

 

[Rodrigo]

@stormrider actually summed it up quite nicely. This is what I meant in the first place.

Let's put it once again plain and simple:

1) a guy can ghost because he's adequately estimated the situation and feels like his game was not strong enough, hence he's most likely to waste more time pushing and trying... to eventually yet again get rejected, so better off move on to another girl and save your pride (and time)

2) a guy can ghost a girl, trying to punish something bad she said/did, thinking this may sparkle some further interest in her and turn the tables - as stormrider said - this is reactive and works against the guy - rarely a game changer.

3) a guy can ghost for no reason, not punishing anything in her behavior, he simply lost interest/attraction at some point (or to quote one of my recent experiences - when clothes came off, I noticed she had some pretty visible hair on and above her breast -a total turnoff although she looked pretty with clothes on and make-up, plus I was seeing two other girls at the same time)

So....2 is definitely bad, 1) and 3) are fairly positive, 3) being probably the best and potentially showing some present abundance/options for the man.

So what happens? A woman won't chase and try to get a man back (despite ghosting not being exactly a break up per se) even if she senses the guy may have certain abundance? Didn't they say competition and abundance is what really motivates women to go after a man and/or try to keep one?

 

[guru1000]

Really it depends on (her perception of) your SMV relative to hers.

Generally, if you ghost lower SMV, they usually come back around. Simply because a man of your caliber doesn't come around that often.

At or higher, ghosting is usually the end because your validation is just not that important.

Not rocket science here.

When I ghost it's because I can. If I couldn't, I wouldn't.

 

[lamath]

I've ghosted plenty of women in my life. Most of the time for no reason whatsoever. They only reason why my ghosting women works (as in getting her to pursue even harder) in the first place is because I didn't ghost because she did something wrong. My ghosting is not a reaction to her. I just simply lost interest. When I find myself reacting to something "bad" that she did, it's only because I failed to mold her from the beginning - which rarely ever happens.

Women rarely act bad enough for me to ghost them. It's because in order for them to enter my reality in the first place, they had to mold themselves to me and surrender to my frame FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. Otherwise there is no romance.

A dominant man's version of ghosting = he simply lost interest.

Sosuave's version of ghosting = punishment for bad behavior....in hopes that she would correct herself and chase.

One is proactive the other reactive.

When you find yourself reacting, it means you failed to set the frame from the beginning.

Whenever you react to women as a tactic, it never works. In fact, nothing that isn't coming from a position of strength works.

In other word bad behavior from a women should make you lose interest.
Walking away is a result of ot.

 

[In2theGame]

You don't walk away to create attraction. That's the wrong frame. You walk away when you no longer desire her due to her present actions.

This right here.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

This power simply states you are aware and you own your balls at all times.

 

[nismo-4]

From one extreme to the other.

We used to try harder, now we turn aloofness and IDGAF stats up to eleven. It's annoying.

Walk away from a girl if she's not serving your needs, not as a game. This whole walking away sh*t is just bringing the classic stalemate of who calls first. Girl still wins if you didn't get laid. The girl won't call back unless it's to get you as some beta orbiter.

Walking away don't make you alpha automatically. It prevents you from being beta. But if she only saw you as beta, you're now useless or invisible.

Women have more options than ever. Even past 70.

Case closed.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

From one extreme to the other.

We used to try harder, now we turn aloofness and IDGAF stats up to eleven. It's annoying.

Walk away from a girl if she's not serving your needs, not as a game. This whole walking away sh*t is just bringing the classic stalemate of who calls first. Girl still wins if you didn't get laid. The girl won't call back unless it's to get you as some beta orbiter.

Walking away don't make you alpha automatically. It prevents you from being beta. But if she only saw you as beta, you're now useless or invisible.

Women have more options than ever. Even past 70.

Case closed.

Its better than serving her as a Beta. You walk away out of self respect and with the wisdom of knowing women make it Easy for men they desire.

 

[BeExcellent]

I never wanted to discuss this as though it might be some wicked little trick you can pull on a girl for regaining her attention/attraction. We are aware that a man should be walking away for his own good, because he's being smart and values his time and once he ejects, he should never look back.

I was more curious as to what exactly happens in a girl's head whenever she gets ghosted and the man goes cold on her out of nowhere as at the same time she's been with him for a while and they've ended up in bed at least once.

OK, let me try to paraphrase my question:

Which type of guy would a woman be inclined to chase more?

1) The narcissistic, sociopath ******* who won't pick up his phone for days, treats her like garbage but she knows she has the relationship status with him and she subconsciously enjoys such a treatment, deep down in her head because it "makes things interesting" rather than routine.

2) the perfect 9, full of confidence, manliness, assertiveness, decent home and income who has treated her well but she's only hooked up with him a couple times and knows full well he is desired by plenty of other women who won't mind locking him down.

Advice from the old lady:

A woman is no more likely to chase one over the other. Too many men here fail to see the greater point. The men in option 2 that you present are the men who the option 1 dudes are trying to emulate.

The narcissist is phony; a deciever and sometimes a highly skilled one who fools many women (and thereby garners real confidence through the presentation of his false self or facade.) Women may not see reality right away, in fact many will not. By the time they do they may be emotionally ensnared. This is by design.

The authentic man on his purpose will present in many instances very similarly to the narcissist but the authentic man is genuine and secure at his core.

A narcissist is insecure at his core, but may be a fabulous bullshjt artist. Caveat emptor.

The difficulty for a woman lies (pun intended) in distinguishing between what is real and what is illusion.

The flaw in your assumption exists in how you think a narcissist treats women. They are never ass holes initially. Not if they are skilled. They are charming, seem accomplished, warm...they know how to package themselves to sell the illusion. It is only later that the ass hole behavior surfaces.

Solid men don’t resort to such tactics. Solid authentic men simply exist as who they are in the world.

Also bear in mind that behaviors exist on a spectrum. There are plenty of high value sought after men who are successful but also happen to be narcissists or at least narcissistic. These matters are never black and white on opposite ends of the scale.

Life is far more nuanced than that. Which in turn creates the difficulty in discernment.

Women who would chase men who treat them poorly have issues. Just remember that.

 

[guru1000]

The problem with that approach is that you're making an empty threat, in hopes of a more desirable outcome. If that ever works, it will stop working there minute she figures out you were only bluffing, or she starts caring less than you do.

Never bluff. Never. And never be the one who cares more. When you walk, she's only a rapidly fading memory, nothing more. If she happens to beg you to take her back, and she's sufficiently contrite for whatever transgression she committed, and you still give enough of a fvck to give her another shot, that's up to your mercy. However, when you walk, you must intend for it to be final. Never bluff.

Yup. Bluffing is chick's game. As is in any manipulation. Which I'm really not against, but there just simply is no need.

Think about the history of manipulation for a second. Women learned to manipulate in the times where brute strength was the arbiter of power. Women unable to compete needed to manipulate to enforce their will else be subjugated entirely to men. And manipulate they did. Hence the story of Adam and Eve, as Eve manipulated Adam to eat the apple. That story predates over 5000 years. Whether fictional or not is irrelevant; it was the thinking of the time. Not much has changed huh?

So it is clear, that whom manipulates has a need, and generally that need is based in KNOWing he or she is in a weaker position in the "negotiation." Else why not just be straight?

So every time you manipulate, you are covertly acknowledging your weaker position.

Now on to tips and tricks: Ghosting to manipulate is a stratagem of the weaker party. As is any trick. If you are going to ghost, ghost for the following reason:

1) YOU desire to;

That's it. Really not else follows.

 

[nismo-4]

Its better than serving her as a Beta. You walk away out of self respect and with the wisdom of knowing women make it Easy for men they desire.

I do agree. But the fact remains she's not into you. Just what nonsexual attention or resources you can provide.

Still, you haven't done well on the high score list. Walking away is good, but only part of the solution. The other part is you improving yourself and becoming more desirable.

Face it, you walked away because she saw you were not enough or too much of some trait. Or you had X trait or you do have Y trait. It only takes one trait or action or inaction to turn a woman off. Preferring Playstation over Xbox or cheering for Clemson could do just that. Or wearing a certain color or brand name.

Above all, most walk-aways and ghosts are reactively done. Still, you fell out of first place and there's a better guy around. Why else the hell do men hurt when they lose a girl and get flaked on, yet girls get hurt when they lose orbiters and beta friends that feed them IG likes. You guys masturbate to IG likes and FB likes? I guaranf**kin' tee you don't.

Also, there's wisdom in knowing that if a woman desires you, ignoring and walking away works if you're seen as alpha. Hell, almost anything works if she sees you as alpha!