asking for advice about uninterested wife

[metalwater]

Progress and endurance continues. I think it is about 3 months since I first posted on this site, and I had the issues long before that. The value of the ideas and feed back from sosuave are priceless. And yes I can filter and translate the ones that are bitter vs helpful. Some of the more harsh ideas are in truth intended as helpful. This might end up as a case that is actually saved and improved

At this point I am working only on some minor disrespect, and the much larger problem of reducing masculinity in the girl. However to be sure the feminine and submissive can and does pop out loud and clear. Occasionally the masculine pops up still and I have to deal with it. But it is becoming more of a humor at it and or go do something else. Will need to see/experience this for several months for it to be sound. At some point in the last weeks changes started happening faster. In some way a switch was triggered. Yes I know it can flip back the other way.

She is now regularly checking if her dress is ok to go out. ( I appreciate this, but take it as somewhat show). This topic isn't perfect yet, but 90% improved to the point it does not feel disrespectful.

The flirting in front of me is maybe almost gone. There is still a friendly approach to others that I need to accept but the style is changing to something that I can accept and support. The key is for me to be/do the same and or better. I expect this subject to come back and forth a couple of times still. But maybe I will be surprised and it is already done. I know it is not fixed completely yet because she will not accept or admit that all the guys are interested in something...

Phone and accounts are now openly left available to me in case I would want to watch them. And yes, I know at this point if something was going on it would be much better hidden.

Response on txt or phone to me is now ok and usually in reasonable time(a priority).

--
I continue with the ME plan. the cheating or walk away will only happen in case there is a serious regression again. Or if I fail to accomplish to get her to show clear public interest in all venue including the one that my OP was referencing. This is something beyond what our original baseline was, so I expect it to take some time to get a root and grow. This will be the clear (no more problems) signal to me.
--

The things that I credit for the improvements.
1. lifting and running (her friends have taken note...). when she is running with me, I can easily run faster so it give a small chance to show some dominance.
2. a few interest checks from other girls.
3. some improvement on frame (my emotional control and presence). no way to describe the furnace of hell that does this. I guess many of you already know about it from personal experience.
4. letting her know that I now have a basic understanding of game and hypergamy. I think this is also key, as I have BRIEFLY taught her about some of her girl friends relationships and what is likely occurring. I guess she already knows, but now knows I know.
5. girl can have a better character than I perceived, with the problem more me than her (however there was for sure a problem 3 months ago).

couple of things I did recently to enforce (really soft...).
1. after good sex, she wants to play phone game, i want to have her cuddle... I will leave the room in case the phone game comes on. that quickly resulted in compliance and without any drama. only issue to me on this, is why it was needed for me to insist for this one.
2. at dinner she decided to take head of table position, I picked up the plate and glass and moved it to the side and took the proper position. she said.. oh.. and that was it, no more issue or noise about it.

small issues, but to me indicative of a mind set... and improvement yes/no ??

 

[BeExcellent]

Agree good progress. She is pleased a man has showed up in her husband. Keep up the good work.

 

[evan12]

I am glad to see how your woman have changed. And glad to know we are here really helping real people with real problems. Good luck my buddy and hope you recover your marriage , remember that even if you move to another woman the same issues with arise because it is your issues

 

[Ricky]

This is a good thread for some issues ive been having.

Havent been on here for several years but returner to read some advice for a friend getting a divorce

 

[metalwater]

How to convert anxiety and compliance to desire? I know... you can't negotiate desire. But can you trigger by anxiety. Isn't that the premise of red pill marriage ideas.

So it is really likely that the girl I have is a zero mileage when I met her. I can't say for sure, but 99% she was. Even if you doubt that, for the purpose of this questions lets assume it is true. That means she doesn't know or have practice with how to treat a man except for a couple early/young boy friend setups... That together with a guy(me) that was an idiot about how to train/take care of her and completely let her and even encouraged her to dominate the relationship and allowed myself to become beta or delta.. very weak? whatever, I am sure some of you get it as some of you described what was happening to me in the start of this thread better than even I could.

I completely get the error of my earlier ways... but I can't go back and fix it.

At this point compliance has still increased, so really everything in my view (what I can actually see) is as I want it.

**** tests or complaints have changed form but have intensity again, but not as often. The trigger points to start them can be really small so I think they are strategic not dynamic. But alas.. I don't really know.

The **** topic from her has migrated to something like;

• can you please go back to the old you.
  
• All you care about is looking good and being selfish.
  
• Why don't you just go get one of the other girls to phuck.
  
• I don't know you anymore.
  
• I have anxiety and do not feel safe that you will...
  
• And then if I listen to it for awhile the disrespectful your so bad type comments are included. Same or similar as before.

Any comments, suggestions about how to convert to desire ? I haven't went to the extreme of getting a mistress yet. And honestly, the wife takes care of me physically really well. I guess as good or better than most.

Now for a small tactical question also. I think the answer to this can be important for me.

Phone video games or messaging. If we are sitting or laying together for one on one time (not sex) is it ok for the girl to want to play with her phone at the same time? To me it feels disrespectful and that I am not a priority or that she has low interest. But maybe I am over the top on this one... She isn't at that time messaging some other guy.. it is just that she is maybe board with me and wants to do something else (check out) while I am there. What do you guys see in regards to the same thing? Or do you even care or worry about it?

Thanks.

 

[AJ84]

How to convert anxiety and compliance to desire? I know... you can't negotiate desire. But can you trigger by anxiety. Isn't that the premise of red pill marriage ideas.

So it is really likely that the girl I have is a zero mileage when I met her. I can't say for sure, but 99% she was. Even if you doubt that, for the purpose of this questions lets assume it is true. That means she doesn't know or have practice with how to treat a man except for a couple early/young boy friend setups... That together with a guy(me) that was an idiot about how to train/take care of her and completely let her and even encouraged her to dominate the relationship and allowed myself to become beta or delta.. very weak? whatever, I am sure some of you get it as some of you described what was happening to me in the start of this thread better than even I could.

I completely get the error of my earlier ways... but I can't go back and fix it.

At this point compliance has still increased, so really everything in my view (what I can actually see) is as I want it.

**** tests or complaints have changed form but have intensity again, but not as often. The trigger points to start them can be really small so I think they are strategic not dynamic. But alas.. I don't really know.

The **** topic from her has migrated to something like;

• can you please go back to the old you.
  
• All you care about is looking good and being selfish.
  
• Why don't you just go get one of the other girls to phuck.
  
• I don't know you anymore.
  
• I have anxiety and do not feel safe that you will...
  
• And then if I listen to it for awhile the disrespectful your so bad type comments are included. Same or similar as before.

Any comments, suggestions about how to convert to desire ? I haven't went to the extreme of getting a mistress yet. And honestly, the wife takes care of me physically really well. I guess as good or better than most.

Now for a small tactical question also. I think the answer to this can be important for me.

Phone video games or messaging. If we are sitting or laying together for one on one time (not sex) is it ok for the girl to want to play with her phone at the same time? To me it feels disrespectful and that I am not a priority or that she has low interest. But maybe I am over the top on this one... She isn't at that time messaging some other guy.. it is just that she is maybe board with me and wants to do something else (check out) while I am there. What do you guys see in regards to the same thing? Or do you even care or worry about it?

Thanks.

Your wife is telling you that you are selfish, giving her anxiety and to go f**k someone else. Doesn’t seem like whatever you are trying ‘train’ her to do is working. Seems like it’s having the opposite effect actually.

Female perspective tip: when she tells you to f**k some else, she no longer cares, and the one who cares less..

Would not be surprised if she dumped you for someone else.

 

[Epic Days]

I’ve read through this and am a bit reluctant to really weigh it.

Desire is a very precise thing. A woman can love you, respect you, care deeply for you and still sleep with another man or want to sleep with another man.
She may even feel guilty after, but it won’t stop her. If you suspect, she will take it further underground.

I will say this once and let you mill it over for a while. If you’ve been together for a while, LTR, married, whatever, if she starts to $hit test you heavily, and disrespect you...she’s already done the deed.

Recommending that you fuk another, is a tell tale sign that she already has. By you cheating on her, it alleviates her pressure. Do you understand this?

If both are engaged with another it removes responsibility and guilt. Eventually she will blow out of there. That pressure will become too great.

 

[AJ84]

A woman should be affectionate because she is genuinely into him that much, not because she is afraid she will lose him. Think about it: If the only time she ‘cares’ is when she thinks you will leave, then she doesn’t really care. And eventually, whatever dread game or anxiety game you are running will backfire when resentment builds and she decides that she has had enough, or when she meets someone else, and is totally ok with you leaving.

Once a woman’s desire is gone it’s hard to get back. More so if her respect is gone too. If she is sick of you, trying to be Dominating Dread Game Compliance Enforcer Alpha Man may work for a short time, but not for the reasons you want (refer to the first paragraph).

Sorry to be blunt about it, maybe you should take her up on that hall pass to f**k someone else.

 

[lgbs2004]

IMO this marriage is over for some time now, OP is only postponing the inevitable

 

[Epic Days]

The descending emotion.

If you really think about it, you will see it. This is something I have observed in other human beings. It’s pretty universal. Leading men can give a man insight.

You observed her not being enthusiastic about anything. She remains quiet a significant amount of time but has small bursts of interest. This is called boredom. When I see men like this I put their ase$ back on purpose. But let’s put this back onto women and a relationship.

She is suffering withdrawals from certain inspirations and drive associated with female hormonal chemicals. Ever notice when a woman is engaged with a new man how inspiring and full of energy she is? Chemicals. Her chemicals are the breath of life to her. Without them she is dead inside.

Next she falls to antagonism. Just in small carping ways. Nothing serious yet. But you are feeling it.

Next she falls to to resentment. Resenting you. Resenting most, if not all things about you. Her marriage crimes have taken over her emotional state.
You are blamed for everything about what she is feeling. It’s all you. She bounds back and forth between grief and resentment.

Her life is movement from one pleasure moment to the next. Some women chow down like a cow. Others spend every dime you have while fukking others.

Without her chemicals a woman is in really bad shape. She can survive years of marriage that way but she will always be unhappy. Husbands start to do anything to bring that woman back up. Death by a thousand cuts.

 

[metalwater]

A woman should be affectionate because she is genuinely into him that much, not because she is afraid she will lose him. Think about it: If the only time she ‘cares’ is when she thinks you will leave, then she doesn’t really care. And eventually, whatever dread game or anxiety game you are running will backfire when resentment builds and she decides that she has had enough, or when she meets someone else, and is totally ok with you leaving.

Once a woman’s desire is gone it’s hard to get back. More so if her respect is gone too. If she is sick of you, trying to be Dominating Dread Game Compliance Enforcer Alpha Man may work for a short time, but not for the reasons you want (refer to the first paragraph).

Sorry to be blunt about it, maybe you should take her up on that hall pass to f**k someone else.

It is why I was floating the question. No matter how silly it would sound. It will mean that the self improvement strategy does not work at all at least for me in this case. I really havn't done anything bad (in my opinion), and havn't lied or cheated. Just all presentation type stuff, includeing lots of physical training. All the things I was asking are just affection related. Maybe I can't get there from where I am. I have worked really hard in the last months to make a difference. If there was any spark, I would think that what I have done would have worked a lot better.

 

[metalwater]

I will say this once and let you mill it over for a while. If you’ve been together for a while, LTR, married, whatever, if she starts to $hit test you heavily, and disrespect you...she’s already done the deed.

Anyone want to disagree with this ?

With out physical proof, it is very difficult to get my head around this. It would mean that it was already when I first posted hear. Although my case fits into some of the exception cases; LTR, zero millage girl. But just tones of circumstantial evidence.

 

[Epic Days]

It is why I was floating the question. No matter how silly it would sound. It will mean that the self improvement strategy does not work at all at least for me in this case. I really havn't done anything bad (in my opinion), and havn't lied or cheated. Just all presentation type stuff, includeing lots of physical training. All the things I was asking are just affection related. Maybe I can't get there from where I am. I have worked really hard in the last months to make a difference. If there was any spark, I would think that what I have done would have worked a lot better.

The self improvement strategy works. Growth for men must be a deliberate act.
I wish it was simple but it’s not. In your case, restoring desire after the fact may be impossible given that there is no technology available to rectify this that is known.

Don’t believe any of that low mileage stuff. This is wishful thinking on the part of some men. A woman is a woman. The pursuit of masculinity, or more the restoration of said masculinity, is the goal. However, not even this can, IMO, maintain desire indefinitely in the woman who lives within the close proximity of being in the same household.

I do not wish this on an enemy or anyone. Not even cultural differences nullifies this.
This is why it’s a tough subject to tackle. I use to believe in the low milage thing. It’s a lie.

You may have to see it through to the end. A man makes his own decisions. I would not think ill of you if you did. Who knows.

 

[Epic Days]

I really havn't done anything bad (in my opinion), and havn't lied or cheated.

I believe this fully. This is why, when people say “Well men cheat too!!!”, I know what it is. A smokescreen. Women are notorious cheaters. Their drives are different than ours. Most men I know, do not cheat.
They are hard working and do much in a misguided attempt to make a woman happy and more specifically, desire them again. They associate her being happy with her then feeling desire for him again. It is also a fatal computation.

 

[AJ84]

Anyone want to disagree with this ?

With out physical proof, it is very difficult to get my head around this. It would mean that it was already when I first posted hear. Although my case fits into some of the exception cases; LTR, zero millage girl. But just tones of circumstantial evidence.

This zero mileage/ virgin = devoted loyal loving woman concept is a myth. I think your situation illustrates that. I’m not saying she is cheating but she’s not playing the doting wifey role you want her to play. She’s on a different script it seems.

Your wife was not created out of whatever red pill manual you are using to try to turn the tides. I feel like you are trying to apply a formula that always works on paper but not necessarily in the field especially in LTRs. Maybe if you started out that way in the beginning it would be different, I don’t know.

I admire you effort to improve your appearance and yourself, but you can only change yourself, you really can’t change who other people are fundamentally.

If you really feel like your needs are not being met in your marriage, then you need to call time of death on it. Someone else will appreciate the new you.

 

[Epic Days]

This zero mileage/ virgin = devoted loyal loving woman concept is a myth.

It’s criminal for men on here to put the idea of low milage women being more loyal or more emotionally available, into other men’s heads. The best for “marriage” lie is destructive.

This is another form of looking for the unicorn. Putting a particular type of woman on a pedestal. A woman’s body IS sexuality and longs for it to be desired. She was never pure in the sense that men would like to think. Never once in history. “Back in the day”, only applied to the in public facade. Behind doors in secret was something else.

 

[metalwater]

Your wife was not created out of whatever red pill manual you are using to try to turn the tides. I feel like you are trying to apply a formula that always works on paper but not necessarily in the field especially in LTRs. Maybe if you started out that way in the beginning it would be different, I don’t know.

Your words today are more kind.

What sort of man would I be if I did not try, do we just walk away if things are not perfect. I did not know how things work before, now it seems like a surreal world. I could find no other tools for this task, so I used this one. Apparently when God gave out the parts to make me, something is missing.

Forcing myself to be even/bland/stoic when inside my heart and spirit are raging and dying, everything else is actually easy by comparison.

I forced my way by will above the top 5% in US starting from a very unfair and restricted beginning, success should be equal to effort.

I can think of movies like forest gump or what dreams may come as reference to character.
--

As your a girl, maybe you can tell me, how do you spot the Chad or player in the social groups ? I can't see them and did not even know they are there. But they are and must be.. how can I see who they are?

 

[Epic Days]

Even though it wasn't directed at me, and never spoken of, it did make me want to "turn down the charm," and avoid certain situations. That's actually a big mistake, though. Keep her on her toes.

I have done this before. Not just with women. People become threatened due to their own fears. It is no service to turn your power down.

Basically this is the crux of the feminine imperative. Masculine being turned down. Limiting “imagined threat”.
It is a huge mistake. I don’t do this. Let others suffer their own fears. One must go against his own fear of persecutions at the social level to advance his own reality and personal growth.

Limiting one’s own power for peace and civility is no service to others.

OP, in the position you are in, I get that there are risks. Emotionally and economically. There is fear there. Do not do all of those things you are trying to do, to rekindle a woman’s desire. Do them to train yourself. To overcome those fears. Do them because that’s what a man would do.

 

[Epic Days]

Absolutely. Never give your power away to a woman, or to anyone else. I got to the point that I was just avoiding women or being intentionally rude. then, I just I said f*** that, and decided to just keep being myself.

To their credit women never accused me of any wrongdoing. Husbands and boyfriends are a different matter though. On that point, you shouldn't necessarily assume that just because your wife is giving f*** me eyes to some guy that he is necessarily doing anything to encourage it or reciprocate. It's entirely possible that he isn't even fully aware of it.

That brings me to this. I caught a piece of a documentary on incels yesterday, and there is apparently some deep dark creepy crap going on with those guys. I wonder how many of those guys were raised by single mothers, but I bet it's almost all of them. This is definitely the very worst element of men raised by single mothers, and is all the justification any father needs for wanting to salvage what he can of his marriage until his sons are grown.

ABSOLUTELY!! The guy could be completely innocent and even unaware that he is being sized up by a panther. In most cases he is because he can’t see it do to his warped reality.

Just yesterday I was standing in line at a grocery store and looked over to my left. A girl no more than 18, if that was staring at me and broke into a smile when I finally noticed her. There’s no mistake about what she was thinking. Cute little Hispanic girl.

INCELs are the low point of our civilization. Many are unrecoverable. Including some on here. They just can’t get past their programming.

 

[AJ84]

Your words today are more kind.

What sort of man would I be if I did not try, do we just walk away if things are not perfect. I did not know how things work before, now it seems like a surreal world. I could find no other tools for this task, so I used this one. Apparently when God gave out the parts to make me, something is missing.

Forcing myself to be even/bland/stoic when inside my heart and spirit are raging and dying, everything else is actually easy by comparison.

I forced my way by will above the top 5% in US starting from a very unfair and restricted beginning, success should be equal to effort.

I can think of movies like forest gump or what dreams may come as reference to character.
--

As your a girl, maybe you can tell me, how do you spot the Chad or player in the social groups ? I can't see them and did not even know they are there. But they are and must be.. how can I see who they are?

You can only try for so long. At some point id it’s not working yes, end it. We only get one life (as far as we know), why waste in on a relationship that depletes you? I get that there are kids and it’s not like she’s a plate but what is worse than a dead marriage? It’s not a good energy for you, your wife or your kids who will pick up on it.

I would think that the guy who is openly flirting with various women in one social setting could be seen as a player.