Lowering standards for release.

[EyeOnThePrize]

Well, you're assuming a lot about the OP, but a DJ mindset means fvck all if you're sitting around alone all the time. You're well spoken here, but you say nothing.

I said he should go out and uphold his standards. If he can't do that then going out is a cover up for deeper issues that he should address, otherwise he's putting the cart before the horse.

I asked you what more he should be giving. That's an odd idea of taking, you have. I thought you were going to say her sanctity or something. I would have respected that more, to be honest.

what kind of woman would be happy with a man that isn't happy with himself? Even for NSA sex.

You're assuming he's banging 2s.

I have no idea how low he intends to swing, the number is irrelevant. The interesting part is his standards most likely won't go completely out the window, they'll simply adjust to a new tolerance proportional to his level of self neglect.

Too many guys focus on theory, and inner game, rather than getting out and making an effort with women.

outer game is a reflection of inner game. unless you want to fortify false confidence, then sure ignore inner game.

It's easy to quote self-help books and preach about inner strength, but that isn't actually helping anyone.

au contraire, inner strength is the seed of liberation for everyone.

 

[user43770]

I said he should go out and uphold his standards. If he can't do that then going out is a cover up for deeper issues that he should address, otherwise he's putting the cart before the horse.

Yeah, your original paragraph was verbose. But you can't make reality conform to your own expectations. That's absurd. You said nothing.

what kind of woman would be happy with a man that isn't happy with himself? Even for NSA sex.

Not for you to judge is it? Are you the dispenser of women now? Plenty of women will fvck a man that isn't happy with himself.

I have no idea how low he intends to swing, the number is irrelevant. The interesting part is his standards most likely won't go completely out the window, they'll simply adjust to a new tolerance proportional to his level of self neglect.

Maybe for you. Have you ever heard of a slump-buster? I've lowered my standards in the past, and then raised them again. I think it's common amongst men.

outer game is a reflection of inner game. unless you want to fortify false confidence, then sure ignore inner game.

Fortify false confidence? Isn't that what you're doing with no-fap?

With a couple of successful attempts, false confidence could easily become real confidence.

I never said ignore inner-game. I don't like how the term is used constantly these days. It's always some distant destination that a man must strive for. Fvck that, I want it today. Like most men. Get out there and speak to women. Leave the self-help talk to theorists.

au contraire, inner strength is the seed of liberation for everyone.

This I can agree with.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

Yeah, your original paragraph was verbose. But you can't make reality conform to your own expectations. That's absurd. You said nothing.

you're saying if i expect a clean room that i can't clean my room? or if i expect to have polite friends that i can't find polite friends? or if i expect to have money, or start a business, or become fit, or wear nicer clothes and develop a sense of fashion, or learn any skill on the face of the planet, or manifest anything into my life that i want, that i can't? that if i expect to date respectful 8s, 9s, and 10s that i can't? THAT'S absurd. you choose to believe what you want. your life is a self fulfilling prophecy.

Not for you to judge is it? Are you the dispenser of women now? Plenty of women will fvck a man that isn't happy with himself.

to what end?

Maybe for you. Have you ever heard of a slump-buster? I've lowered my standards in the past, and then raised them again. I think it's common amongst men.

the question is WHY did you lower them and WHY did you raise them again?

Fortify false confidence? Isn't that what you're doing with no-fap?

i'm not sure i see the connection.

With a couple of successful attempts, false confidence could easily become real confidence.

I never said ignore inner-game.

too many guys focus on theory, and inner game, rather than getting out and making an effort with women.

i agree some guys don't get out enough, but seems you agree that inner game comes first.

I don't like how the term is used constantly these days. It's always some distant destination that a man must strive for. Fvck that, I want it today. Like most men. Get out there and speak to women. Leave the self-help talk to theorists.

ideals are like stars for the seafaring man. he can never touch them, but they show him the way.

to get back on topic, why lower your standards?

 

[lamath]

Personaly i rather fap that bang a women im not feeling like banging.

My standars are women id **** and women i would never ****.

 

[user43770]

You're being very unoriginal now, prize. This is why I responded to you:

That's arguable worse than fapping since you'll be screwing some chick up for the next guy, and diminishing yourself by only taking rather than giving.

See, I expected you to say something worthwhile after that, but you came at me with a meaningless word salad. You gave me your usual self-help bullsh1t.

I expected you to say that women are a treasure, and that by desecrating them further, you will only contribute to their ruin with a future partner. I would have respected you if you had said that.

Instead, how about you answer my initial question: what more should he be giving?

 

[user43770]

you're saying if i expect a clean room that i can't clean my room? or if i expect to have polite friends that i can't find polite friends? or if i expect to have money, or start a business, or become fit, or wear nicer clothes and develop a sense of fashion, or learn any skill on the face of the planet, or manifest anything into my life that i want, that i can't? that if i expect to date respectful 8s, 9s, and 10s that i can't? THAT'S absurd. you choose to believe what you want. your life is a self fulfilling prophecy.

You're talking about obvious tasks that everybody has to do, except for the outlier of starting a business. You sound like Jordan Peterson.

You can't WILL any outside product into your life, as someone else had to create it and therefore it has value. If it was so easy, we would all be wealthy beyond belief.

to what end?[

What is ever the end? Why meet women at all? Why wake up in the morning? These are questions that every man must answer for himself.

the question is WHY did you lower them and WHY did you raise them again?

As I said, to bust a slump. After doing so, I regained much needed confidence and was back on my game.

I'm not sure i see the connection.

You want to believe that you have control over your own self, but you don't even have that; none of us do. So you regurgitate mantras that you've read somewhere, hoping that they will help you. They won't. You can only play the game within nature's limits.

ideals are like stars for the seafaring man. he can never touch them, but they show him the way.

I like that.

 

[guru1000]

I do agree with @EyeOnThePrize’s assessment of taking as opposed to giving.

Within outward appearances, it does appear that you are giving TO her, as opposed to taking FROM her. After all, you are giving her great sex and a great time, right? However, after the dirty deed, when reality sets in, what you really did is alpha-widow her, that is create an ideal image of a man she now “thinks” she can attract. You set a new bar and she now goes on thinking that she can find such a man while she declines all suitable contenders if they don’t match up. She will inevitably end up alone or more than likely have to “settle” for a man she now views as sub-par to you and be unhappy and thus make her new man unhappy.

Not very different than a woman who uses you for attention and validation until she finds a man she desires.

Actually it’s very much the same.

Unfortunately, I’ve done this many times to many girls, some of whom are even married today and still call me.

It’s just not good practice overall.

Am I an angel? No. Do I still do it? Yes. But having traveled down this road quite often, I don’t like aftermath.

This is the behind-the-scenes of giving vs. taking.

 

[user43770]

I do agree with @EyeOnThePrize’s assessment of taking as opposed to giving.

His idea of taking, was loose, at best. He never expanded on the giving, which is all I wanted to hear.

 

[user43770]

Here's my $.02 on slump busters.

A while back I banged one. I won't feed you excuses for why I went dry because then there'll be slings and arrows (NO EXCUSES!) headed for me. But anyway I met a girl, read her attraction, and in a day or two we banged. She was my type except that she was older (39) and with a few extra pounds. Anyway I never had any other intention for her than sex. She was nice, good in bed, and it was a good experience.

Another time, my friends introduced me to a girl who was definitely DTF. She too had a few extra pounds. More than the previous one. While I liked her vibe and face and tawny skin, in the end I declined to make a move or ask her out. The reason is simple: My friends would know. I'm not ashamed to admit that when my SMV is on display, I'm going to protect it. Also, I wasn't in a slump per se, but really it was about lowering my SMV.

Now, you'll probably tell me I should have been like that when NOBODY was watching. Maybe you're right. But I was in that spot and you weren't, and I was cool with the cost/benefit calculus. No regrets. I think slump busters can be helpful, but every man has to make that call for himself.

As for no-fapping, to each his own on that. I don't find that it makes much of a difference other than not wearing out the skin and affecting the sensation. I've tried no-fap and it does not give me some magical shot of testosterone. The body is self-governing, it's not going to over-produce. However the truth is I've been so busy that I just haven't found time to jerk off very often...when it does occur to me I'm usually tired or hungry or something. But if the urge does come over me and I have the time, sure, why not.

Sleeping with a fat girl is like riding a moped; It's all fun and games until your friends see you on it.

 

[user43770]

As for no-fapping, to each his own on that. I don't find that it makes much of a difference other than not wearing out the skin and affecting the sensation. I've tried no-fap and it does not give me some magical shot of testosterone. The body is self-governing, it's not going to over-produce. However the truth is I've been so busy that I just haven't found time to jerk off very often...when it does occur to me I'm usually tired or hungry or something. But if the urge does come over me and I have the time, sure, why not.

I'm usually no-fap, but I always jack-off before a date. Not because I'm worried about my mental state - though some guys definitely should - but because I want to last longer in bed, if it comes to that.

 

[user43770]

I do agree with @EyeOnThePrize’s assessment of taking as opposed to giving.

Within outward appearances, it does appear that you are giving TO her, as opposed to taking FROM her. After all, you are giving her great sex and a great time, right? However, after the dirty deed, when reality sets in, what you really did is alpha-widow her, that is create an ideal image of a man she now “thinks” she can attract. You set a new bar and she now goes on thinking that she can find such a man while she declines all suitable contenders if they don’t match up. She will inevitably end up alone or more than likely have to “settle” for a man she now views as sub-par to you and be unhappy and thus make her new man unhappy.

Not very different than a woman who uses you for attention and validation until she finds a man she desires.

Actually it’s very much the same.

Unfortunately, I’ve done this many times to many girls, some of whom are even married today and still call me.

It’s just not good practice overall.

Am I an angel? No. Do I still do it? Yes. But having traveled down this road quite often, I don’t like aftermath.

This is the behind-the-scenes of giving vs. taking.

This is the direction I thought Eye was going in, but he wondered off.

If your reason for not fvcking women is for a greater good, and for the benefit of your fellow man, then I respect you more than I could put into words. Personally, I'm going to keep sexing women, but you have my respect.

If your reason is because you want to ride on a high horse around sosuave, then I'm going to challenge you.

 

[guru1000]

This is the direction I thought Eye was going in, but he wondered off.

If your reason for not fvcking women is for a greater good, and for the benefit of your fellow man, then I respect you more than I could put into words. Personally, I'm going to keep sexing women, but you have my respect.

If your reason is because you want to ride on a high horse around sosuave, then I'm going to challenge you.

Don’t get me wrong. I still do. But I’m aware of the underlying dynamic and consequence thereof. I put that out there so readers understand fully what they are doing before they do it.

As to me personally, lowering my standard is still not dumpster diving. I might lower to be with a 7 while my preference is a 9. But even that 7 has potential for something greater IF she plays her cards right. She’d just get no leeway in her game and get the boot after first mess up lol

 

[user43770]

Don’t get me wrong. I still do. But I’m aware of the underlying dynamic and consequence thereof. I put that out there so readers understand fully what they are doing before they do it.

As to me personally, lowering my standard is still not dumpster diving. I might lower to be with a 7 while my preference is a 9. But even that 7 has potential for something greater IF she plays her cards right. She’d just get no leeway in her game and get the boot after first mess up lol

Whenever anybody mentions lowering their standards, the convo inevitably turns to dumpster diving.

Obviously that's not the case for most of us.

Edit - though I've banged some fatties in my day

 

[guru1000]

Whenever anybody mentions lowering their standards, the convo turns to dumpster diving.

Obviously that's not the case for most of us.

I would go even further to state in my example lowering to a 7 is not even lowering standards at all, as these 7s are often better women than 9s, having less trauma, less insecurities, more professional jobs, better educated, more developed personalities and less red flags overall.

In such a context, the 9 would be lowering my standard as she often does not carry the same attributes as the 7.

Most of these discussions are moot due to lack of clarity and context given. But the input on both sides of the discussion are valuable to the readers.

As to dumpster diving, that’s just not necessary overall. Plenty of women around a man’s SMV (give or take) for him to choose.

 

[user43770]

I would go even further to state in my example lowering to a 7 is not even lowering standards at all, as these 7s are often better women than 9s, having less trauma, less insecurities, more professional jobs, better educated, more developed personalities and less red flags overall.

In such a context, the 9 would be lowering my standard as she often does not carry the same attributes as the 7.

Most of these discussions are moot due to lack of clarity and context in the discussions given. But the input on both sides of the discussion are valuable to the readers.

As to dumpster diving, that’s just not necessary overall. Plenty of women around a man’s SMV (give or take) for him to choose.

Your standards are probably higher than mine, as you're better looking and live in NYC, but I never bang women that aren't attractive to me. And even when I lower my standards, most guys on sosuave would pound in a heartbeat.

As I've gotten older, I've realized what I'm capable of. I don't believe that I can WILL 9s and 10s like @EyeOnThePrize laughably suggested.

Life is what it is. Make the best of what you have to work with. Positive thinking is good, but it will only take you so far.

 

[guru1000]

Your standards are probably higher than mine, as you're better looking and live in NYC, but I never bang women that aren't attractive to me. And even when I lower my standards, most guys on sosuave would pound in a heartbeat.

As I've gotten older, I've realized what I'm capable of. I don't believe that I can WILL 9s and 10s like Eye laughably suggested.

Life is what it is. Make the best of what you have to work with. Positive thinking is good, but it will only take you so far.

I know men at the bottom of DNA pool LTR model-types repeatedly. They just build a quasi-celebrity status and seemly joined celebrity circles via their business, Instagram-ed their “friends,” and BOOM, now they are swimming in models.

Really there are no restrictions in what one can attain despite their genetic shortcomings. It's just a question of desire and what one is willing to do to get there.

I'm not advocating one should or should not do this. Rather, just lifting the veil of restrictions for anyone who chooses to.

 

[user43770]

I know men at the bottom of DNA pool LTR model-types repeatedly. They just build a quasi-celebrity status and seemly joined celebrity circles via their business, Instagram-ed their “friends,” and BOOM, now they are swimming in models.

Really there are no restrictions in what one can attain despite their genetic shortcomings. It's just a question of desire and what one is willing to do to get there.

I'm not advocating one should or should not do this. Rather, just lifting the veil of restrictions for anyone who chooses to.

I'm not a fake-ass b1tch, though. I've thought about trying to fake an online personality. Just can't do it. I'm willing to sacrifice women for it.

I have a strong frame. I.e no man or woman is going to push me around.

For instance, if you, guru, came to my place of living, you would be viewed as a Yankee. And rightly so. That isn't to say that you couldn't still get laid, just that you've entered my frame.

 

[guru1000]

I'm not a fake-ass b1tch, though. I've thought about trying to fake an online personality. Just can't do it. I'm willing to sacrifice women for it.

I have a strong frame. I.e no man or woman is going to push me around.

For instance, if you, guru, came to my place of living, you would be viewed as a Yankee. And rightly so. That isn't to say that you couldn't still get laid, just that you've entered my frame.

They’re not fake individuals. They are financially successful and do business with high profile individuals to whom they leverage as social proof.

One can say social proof in itself is fake as it fails to describe the individual outside of the social group. Irregardless, social proof is effective. Results in your desire (as long as you are not hurting others in the process) is what matters. All other reasoning to the contrary are ego rationals and thus excuses to fail.

 

[user43770]

They’re not fake individuals. They are financially successful and do business with high profile individuals to whom they leverage as social proof.

One can say social proof in itself is fake as it fails to describe the individual outside of the social group. Irregardless, social proof is effective. Results in your desire (as long as you are not hurting others in the process) is what matters. All other reasoning to the contrary are ego rationals and thus excuses to fail.

No offense, but I think that anyone with a social media presence is insecure, unless for business marketing. I'm obviously a weird guy in that regard, but I'm comfortable with it.

 

[user43770]

You can't will them, but you can work on them as goals. I remember reading in that old book How To Seduce Women, "if you want to become a doctor and you go through all of the steps in the process, eventually you will become one" or something like that, then adding "and if you want to seduce beautiful women, by taking the steps and working at it, you will do that too." So it's more about personal willpower than willing someone else.

My problem in the past is backing into things or taking low-hanging fruit. I'm not saying I haven't been with some beautiful and amazing women. I most certainly have. But you know how it goes with the path of least resistance. This year I decided to recalibrate my goals and go after the women I truly want. (Kind of contradicts my earlier post but that was a slump buster, lol.) A couple of weeks ago I had one in the palm of my hand and I fumbled. Live and learn but it was worth taking the shot such, as it was.

I think most men - especially on Sosuave - don't realize their potential. Ross Perot said once that most people give up on the 1-yard line.

You're so money and you don't even know it.