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[EyeOnThePrize]

Brooks your insecurity bleeds through your words. You keep asking if she's going to dump you. Why are you waiting for her to do it? YOU should do it for yourself. Where is your self respect? Why are you putting up with this? There's a chance you two will work it out but not if you continue to worry about losing her. You have to be willing to walk. If she has any power over you in that regard, if she can knock you off center just by mentioning breaking up then she's losing respect for you. She should be able to say literally anything and it shouldn't hurt. If it's disrespectful you walk. She needs to feel that power, that you can walk away from disrespect, otherwise she'll lose respect because you're not standing up for yourself. When she mentions not feeling it or feeling doubts, say 'well I love you but if you want to go then go'. If she comes back and says she's unsure then tell her to get in touch when she figures it out. If she's into you(which it sounds like she is) she'll come running back with crazy feelings. But you can't bank on that. You have to walk because you value yourself and know that you're lovable. You don't have to convince someone or prove to someone that you're lovable, you just are. You need to stand up for yourself dude. Putting up with half ass attraction is weak. You're demeaning yourself and disrespecting yourself by trying to attract her if you're coming from neediness. Attraction isn't a choice. Be fun, be playful, that's what love is. If you can't be fun naturally you need to be single until you can. If she walks let her go. If you can't stand the thought of being without her then you need to break it off until you grow your balls back. I know the guys are being tough but if I were you I'd put my foot down. Say what you expect and what you find disrespectful about her actions. 'if you're going to storm out and go cold then I don't want to do this. Either you open up to me and tell me what's wrong and we work through it by taking calmly like adults, or we can stop wasting our time.' even THAT is soft. Even THAT is really cutting her a lot of slack. The point again is to let her walk and be willing to leave a situation where someone doesn't have feelings for you and isn't showing respect. Once you are completely ok with her walking and completely willing to walk from her without hesitation if she disrespects you, THEN you can work on reattracting her by going on dates. But don't lie to yourself. Listen to your feelings. If you feel weak as hell then you need to break it off and grow your balls back first. You won't have any game until you do.

 

[Brooks]

I don't even read that you two are still sleeping with each other by this point.

Well, the last time we slept with each other was the night we had the fight. Since then I’ve only seen her once. And on that interaction we made out twice.
I see her tomorrow and we will see what happens. She just said she wasn’t going to sleep over. However, who knows about what tomorrow will look like.

Dude stop chatting with her. Rule number one, you cannot negotiate desire. She cant be talked into falling for you again.

But she’s still my girlfriend? And she called me on Thursday night. I’m not just going to ignore the person who I want. I would cease chatting with her if her and I actually broke up, but we didn’t.

Brooks your insecurity bleeds through your words. You keep asking if she's going to dump you. Why are you waiting for her to do it? YOU should do it for yourself. Where is your self respect? Why are you putting up with this?

I have been insecure, you’re right. I’m not really asking her if she’s going to dump me. I asked her when she put that thought forward if she was 100% sure and she wasn’t certain. I’ve just communicated my wrong-doings and what I want for us and where I want to improve. Which is a positive.
And I don’t want to walk away from her because it’s genuinely NOT what I want. So I’m not going to walk away just to create a break that I don’t know if I personally would be able to come back from. My self respect prior to this argument was lower forsure. And it took me this incident to see that. Sucks, but I can course correct while still being with her.

There's a chance you two will work it out but not if you continue to worry about losing her. You have to be willing to walk. If she has any power over you in that regard, if she can knock you off center just by mentioning breaking up then she's losing respect for you.

This is what I do think also. I do believe we can work. But not with how I’ve been currently conducting myself by being overly sensitive and such. It’s caused a great loss of respect on her end for me, and even me for myself. I know I have to stop being fearful of losing her.

If it's disrespectful you walk. She needs to feel that power, that you can walk away from disrespect, otherwise she'll lose respect because you're not standing up for yourself.

This is one thing I wasn’t able to do in the past.

If she's into you(which it sounds like she is) she'll come running back with crazy feelings. But you can't bank on that. You have to walk because you value yourself and know that you're lovable.

I do really believe she is in to me. Not just with me cause I’m there or a filler. There have been aspects where I’ve caused a loss of attraction and reacted in a poor manner. I know it’s about self value and be able to leave a moment, rather than thinking of it as leaving the relationship.

If you can't stand the thought of being without her then you need to break it off until you grow your balls back.

It does make me a little sick to be without her. To break up and potentially have her go on dates and that. Because it’s not what I even want. I just want her. But I truly do believe I can just work through some of my issues whilst still being in a relationship with her. The biggest thing has been me pestering her with questions during arguments, always asking her what her feelings are rather than stating mine, and becoming needy when she goes to leave. I can change that instantly. I just didn’t realize I was doing it before.

Once you are completely ok with her walking and completely willing to walk from her without hesitation if she disrespects you, THEN you can work on reattracting her by going on dates. But don't lie to yourself. Listen to your feelings. If you feel weak as hell then you need to break it off and grow your balls back first. You won't have any game until you do.

Once again, I do think I can develop game while still being with her and not needing to end it all. I think it’s just a matter of standing up for myself and being okay with either of us walking away for the moment.

 

[Brooks]

I should also mention..

When we made plans today on the phone for our hangout tomorrow..
I mentioned I was going to my friends party tonight. She said “you never mentioned anything about this” and I said “oh it was last minute I guess”

Anyways, after I told her that I noticed she became quite quiet and short. It bothered her; me going to a party where there would obviously be other women.

Throughout our relationship I haven’t done this yet as many of my friends have been away. So I think this caused an emotional reaction which normally I would feel bad about. But I can sense it has gotten her hampster spinning.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Never forget that women are cats.

What happens when you chase a cat? It runs away. What happens when you ignore a cat? It comes up to you, seeking affection.

When a woman pulls away, the man must pull away farther. This creates tension within her which can only be alleviated by pursuing you.

I have done that in my own relationship. In previous relationships, if I perceived a woman pulling away or becoming distant, I would internally panic and try to pursue and “fix” the problem. The operative word is “perceived”. Sometimes they pull back and there is nothing wrong at all. It is female nature to ebb and flow like the ocean.

In this relationship (I just got engaged a couple weeks ago), if ever I perceived her becoming more distant, I myself became distant and this would cause her to pursue me aggressively. She knows full well that I can live just fine without her, although I would rather her be with me.

When a cat pulls away, try as you might to cajole it into coming to you, it will not. To bring a cat to you, you must detach and ignore it. Women are cats. Believe it.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

I have been insecure, you’re right. I’m not really asking her if she’s going to dump me.

you're asking us, as if you don't have the power to end it right now, which shows that you're worried about it. you fear it. a man doesn't fear that dude. you're dragging it out cuz you're scared of losing her but she's basically telling you she's not interested or her interest is super low. you're acting as if you can't get a girl that likes you more, like this is all you can get. do you think that's attractive to her?

I asked her when she put that thought forward if she was 100% sure and she wasn’t certain. I’ve just communicated my wrong-doings and what I want for us and where I want to improve. Which is a positive.

has she communicated her wrong doing?

I do really believe she is in to me.

then why are you asking us if she's breaking up with you? why are you reciting every little detail of your interaction as if one wrong move could end it all? if you really believed this she would not be giving you these doubts dude, don't lie to yourself. she wouldn't be compounding your insecurity and testing you so hard.

It does make me a little sick to be without her. To break up and potentially have her go on dates and that. Because it’s not what I even want. I just want her. But I truly do believe I can just work through some of my issues whilst still being in a relationship with her.

this is what you're not understanding. do you know what will make you stronger? focusing on yourself. do you know the best way to do that? being by yourself. it's possible when you're with a woman but it is crazy hard my dude, especially when you're more in love with her than she is with you. you have to basically stop reaching out and let her do all of the reaching out and all of the setting up dates. if she ever bitches about it you have to say something like "i've been feeling really weird lately and think i really need to focus on myself. i love you and love spending time with you, but i've been feeling disrespected and don't want to see you unless you're into this and want to work it out." you need to keep all your contact with her short but nice. you need to put yourself first again. she's going to test and try to get your attention by any means necessary. if you withstand all those tests eventually she'll come around and be nice. or she might be nice right away, or she might leave for good.

I can change that instantly. I just didn’t realize I was doing it before.

you can instantly change your confidence permanently? then you wouldn't be here asking us this stuff dude. you're lying to yourself. it takes time and effort working on yourself to build up yourself. rome wasn't built in a day.

I think it’s just a matter of standing up for myself and being okay with either of us walking away for the moment.

again more bs. not walking away for the moment, walking away for GOOD. you have to be ok with THAT. until you are ok with that you will not be able to win her heart dude. she'll drag it out until she sees an exit, then she'll take it.

Throughout our relationship I haven’t done this yet as many of my friends have been away. So I think this caused an emotional reaction which normally I would feel bad about. But I can sense it has gotten her hampster spinning.

this is good, having fun for yourself. if she acts bitchy about this later you need to calmly and politely call her out. if she keeps acting bitchy you need to tell her to talk to you when she decides to be nice, and WALK.

 

[Mazer]

At the end of the day, you are set on doing what you want. I would only suggest getting a head start, read through a couple of old threads on here, absorbing a lot of the information provided, specifically the “oneitis” thread. It will only help you, if it doesn’t work out between the two of you. I wish you the best, but at least when things go south, you will have had a head start on the healing process and understand how most women operate.

 

[Brooks]

Never forget that women are cats.

What happens when you chase a cat? It runs away. What happens when you ignore a cat? It comes up to you, seeking affection.

When a woman pulls away, the man must pull away farther. This creates tension within her which can only be alleviated by pursuing you.

I have done that in my own relationship. In previous relationships, if I perceived a woman pulling away or becoming distant, I would internally panic and try to pursue and “fix” the problem. The operative word is “perceived”. Sometimes they pull back and there is nothing wrong at all. It is female nature to ebb and flow like the ocean.

In this relationship (I just got engaged a couple weeks ago), if ever I perceived her becoming more distant, I myself became distant and this would cause her to pursue me aggressively. She knows full well that I can live just fine without her, although I would rather her be with me.

When a cat pulls away, try as you might to cajole it into coming to you, it will not. To bring a cat to you, you must detach and ignore it. Women are cats. Believe it.

So I just have to implement being more cool when she goes to walk. And during this phase I’m in now, keep my distance, but when she reaches out plan a date of sorts?

What’s your take on the situation?

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

So I just have to implement being more cool when she goes to walk. And during this phase I’m in now, keep my distance, but when she reaches out plan a date of sorts?

What’s your take on the situation?

Only take her on dates if you're emotionally sound

 

[Brooks]

you're asking us, as if you don't have the power to end it right now, which shows that you're worried about it. you fear it. a man doesn't fear that dude. you're dragging it out cuz you're scared of losing her but she's basically telling you she's not interested or her interest is super low. you're acting as if you can't get a girl that likes you more, like this is all you can get. do you think that's attractive to her?

Yes her interest is super low right now. But last week it was high. She was thinking about our future together - imagining my ring on her finger, moving in, etc.
I know I could get a girl who likes me more. But I want this girl. I think a man should fight for what he wants. Especially when it was him that screwed up.
Just because there was a fight and close call doesn’t mean one should fold the cards.. in my mind. Once something breaks, it’s broken.

has she communicated her wrong doing?

Yes. It’s not just about this fight we had. We had the fight because of a build up of other things that were affecting me. She never explicitly apologized for the fight, but she said she had a part to play in all of it too. Her emotional unavailability in the start. She knows it’s not just on me and she understands why some of the things have bothered me.

then why are you asking us if she's breaking up with you? why are you reciting every little detail of your interaction as if one wrong move could end it all? if you really believed this she would not be giving you these doubts dude, don't lie to yourself. she wouldn't be compounding your insecurity and testing you so hard.

I think she’s testing me so hard because now she’s unsurenor maybe has been for awhile. Because I’ve been letting the smaller things effect me. She’s going to test me harder now also because of the fight and all that. Her tests are coming from the fact that I donshow affection and dontell her how much I like her often. But obviously she doesn’t like me if we usually spend our weekends together and there is solid effort made on her end. And there is a lot of sex going on, and is going on a summer trip together and her talking about the future together.

this is what you're not understanding. do you know what will make you stronger? focusing on yourself. do you know the best way to do that? being by yourself. it's possible when you're with a woman but it is crazy hard my dude, especially when you're more in love with her than she is with you.

Every relationship needs to have this. Two people who focus on themselves. It’s a little ridiculous to say you need to just end something to focus purely on yourself.
I think it’s abkut recognizing which weak things one has been doing and then correct them; that takes refelction and a forum such as this. So one is able to have the awareness.

And in any other sense of self improvement it’s just about cutting down time spent on other things while buikdingnones purpose, friends, hobbies. All can be done whilst still in a relationship. Is it easier single? Yes majorly and obviously.

If she asks why so much is different I can tell her the truth; that I wasn’t prioritizing me so we can have a better relationship.

you can instantly change your confidence permanently? then you wouldn't be here asking us this stuff dude. you're lying to yourself. it takes time and effort working on yourself to build up yourself. rome wasn't built in a day.

Can’t instantly change much in life. If I’m here that means I want to build my confidence further and see the areas I went wrong so I don’t keep repeating. I am a pretty confident person, but I have some insecurities in relationships when people walk away. I care tooooo much. And sometimes I think small things are bigger than they are. No one is perfect. No man is going to get this 100% right when his emotions are involved.

again more bs. not walking away for the moment, walking away for GOOD. you have to be ok with THAT. until you are ok with that you will not be able to win her heart dude. she'll drag it out until she sees an exit, then she'll take it.

She’s not the type that needs an exit. She could have easily dropped me on Wednesday and been okay. She thought we were going to actually break up but we didn’t. She was going to maybe go to some BBQ, but she didn’t. I do understand what you’re saying about having that ability. And it’s about recognizing total value within your own self.l and yes, that’s something I need to build more of.

this is good, having fun for yourself. if she acts bitchy about this later you need to calmly and politely call her out. if she keeps acting bitchy you need to tell her to talk to you when she decides to be nice, and WALK.

So I’ve already changed something and it’s had an effect. Seemingly one that would make her upset at the outset but surely she sees that I can get out there very fast if I wanted. But this is the thing that will drive up her interest because it plays on her emotions. So more of this, more of me living my life. Right?

 

[Brooks]

At the end of the day, you are set on doing what you want. I would only suggest getting a head start, read through a couple of old threads on here, absorbing a lot of the information provided, specifically the “oneitis” thread. It will only help you, if it doesn’t work out between the two of you. I wish you the best, but at least when things go south, you will have had a head start on the healing process and understand how most women operate.

Well I do believe my adjustments are simple. With or without her. If she doesn’t eject from our relationship it’s tealky just about letting her go if she wants to go, not being aleffected by her words, and building my life which is separate from her. I think I’m putting too much emphasis and responsibility on her and she knows it. So the weight of the relationship is more than it should be.

 

[Spaz]

Never forget that women are cats.

What happens when you chase a cat? It runs away. What happens when you ignore a cat? It comes up to you, seeking affection.

When a woman pulls away, the man must pull away farther. This creates tension within her which can only be alleviated by pursuing you.

I have done that in my own relationship. In previous relationships, if I perceived a woman pulling away or becoming distant, I would internally panic and try to pursue and “fix” the problem. The operative word is “perceived”. Sometimes they pull back and there is nothing wrong at all. It is female nature to ebb and flow like the ocean.

In this relationship (I just got engaged a couple weeks ago), if ever I perceived her becoming more distant, I myself became distant and this would cause her to pursue me aggressively. She knows full well that I can live just fine without her, although I would rather her be with me.

When a cat pulls away, try as you might to cajole it into coming to you, it will not. To bring a cat to you, you must detach and ignore it. Women are cats. Believe it.

True.

In short, this explains game perfectly well.

I remembered using the same analogy with @flowtheory and some others as well.

It is good advice for men who are "red pilled" yet passive in nature, often succumbing to their excessive need for love, to love and to receive love thereby overwhelming their women.

But for men such as OP, he is in a much different zone and though he has displayed the same tendencies he is far below that level needed to implement the cat and mouse game successfully.

He's too desperate, too needy, too supplicating, too available, too lonely and not someone who is yet able to stand on his own feet yet when it comes to relationships.

When a man speaks either through speech or written words, his mind opens up for us to take a peek at his subconscious mindset, and that mindset will give us a clue on how he does things in real life which is another clue on what results he achieves.

He has given all 3 and base on that he needs more then cat and mouse, he needs to build a solid foundation 1st.

Completely destroy the old and build a new one, work it up from there.

 

[Epic Days]

This situation is unsolvable.

 

[Brooks]

Only take her on dates if you're emotionally sound

Yes and that’s what I’m working on doing. Getting to a place where I’m more emotionally strong and don’t need her to fill that within me because I fill it with myself. And by doing that, that’s what gives a man the ability to walk away.

 

[Brooks]

It is good advice for men who are "red pilled" yet passive in nature, often succumbing to their excessive need for love, to love and to receive love thereby overwhelming their women.

So it’s important for these types of men to have something bigger than a relationship to deliver them that love, rather than expecting a woman to give back as deeply and hard?

He has given all 3 and base on that he needs more then cat and mouse, he needs to build a solid foundation 1st.

What is the foundation in your mind?

 

[Dash Riprock]

Ok, I've read OP's posts and the the responses. Kind of like a doctor that's been practicing for 20+ years, based on OP's symptoms and my experience, I see only 2 possible outcomes:

1- The gf dumps him cold in the next few weeks when she finds someone less needy and more attractive (odds 70%). OP is crushed, cries, begs her to come back, which she finds repulsive. From this defeat he has an opportunity to learn and grow--if he takes it.

2- Gf drags him along for weeks and/or months, occasionally cheating with "friends". OP keeps chasing and trying to win her which drives her away more and kills any attraction. Like a death of 1000 cuts, she eventually disappears and/or gives him the LJBF talk. Same OP reaction as in #1. (Odds 30%)

The ONLY possible solution to correct this, and I give it a 10% chance of actually working, is for OP to break up with her NOW. Gf sounds really immature so she'll be shocked he turned the tables and clamor to get him back. OP would need to stay very cool and aloof and say maybe we can just date again and see other people too. Gf will go nuts. OP DOES see other people and lets gf know, overtly or covertly. Then, VERY SLOWLY, OP works his way back by being a MAN not a wuss, basically rationing his time with her and planning fun dates. Maybe a 6 month project.

But, I'm 99.9% sure OP can't pull it off due to his state of mind and strong beta tendencies.

Learning the hard way is life's best teacher so I'm sure that's what will happen here.

Still, thats the blueprint.

Good luck.

 

[Brooks]

Ok, I've read OP's posts and the the responses. Kind of like a doctor that's been practicing for 20+ years, based on OP's symptoms and my experience, I see only 2 possible outcomes:

1- The gf dumps him cold in the next few weeks when she finds someone less needy and more attractive (odds 70%). OP is crushed, cries, begs her to come back, which she finds repulsive. From this defeat he has an opportunity to learn and grow--if he takes it.

2- Gf drags him along for weeks and/or months, occasionally cheating with "friends". OP keeps chasing and trying to win her which drives her away more and kills any attraction. Like a death of 1000 cuts, she eventually disappears and/or gives him the LJBF talk. Same OP reaction as in #1. (Odds 30%)

The ONLY possible solution to correct this, and I give it a 10% chance of actually working, is for OP to break up with her NOW. Gf sounds really immature so she'll be shocked he turned the tables and clamor to get him back. OP would need to stay very cool and aloof and say maybe we can just date again and see other people too. Gf will go nuts. OP DOES see other people and lets gf know, overtly or covertly. Then, VERY SLOWLY, OP works his way back by being a MAN not a wuss, basically rationing his time with her and planning fun dates. Maybe a 6 month project.

But, I'm 99.9% sure OP can't pull it off due to his state of mind and strong beta tendencies.

Learning the hard way is life's best teacher so I'm sure that's what will happen here.

Still, thats the blueprint.

Good luck.

Or how about...

3 - OP recognizes where he went wrong in their relationship. Instantly changes his needy behaviour and starts working on himself while still being a boyfriend who makes effort. He goes out with friends, monopolizes his time with improving himself, figures out why he’s been so emotional with her and needy, doesn’t engage in possible arguments as he knows their probably tests, focuses on fun and flirting with her instead of relationship talks.
And if she chooses to end it, all he says is “Okay. You know I love you and want to work on things. If you realize you want to too in the ncoming days, great. If not, I wish you the best.”

 

[Epic Days]

Or how about...

3 - OP recognizes where he went wrong in their relationship. Instantly changes his needy behaviour and starts working on himself while still being a boyfriend who makes effort. He goes out with friends, monopolizes his time with improving himself, figures out why he’s been so emotional with her and needy, doesn’t engage in possible arguments as he knows their probably tests, focuses on fun and flirting with her instead of relationship talks.
And if she chooses to end it, all he says is “Okay. You know I love you and want to work on things. If you realize you want to too in the ncoming days, great. If not, I wish you the best.”

All men think that in an effort to salvage his needy heart. This is not original or new.

It’s just like the new “boot” getting to his first combat unit. His life expectancy is much shorter. He doesn’t know anything. So he best listen if he wants to make it.

You aren’t listening.

 

[Brooks]

All men think that in an effort to salvage his needy heart. This is not original or new.

I see what’s on the line, Epic. It’s not just a woman. The woman is feedback of my poor behaviours and doings. Right now it’s not good. But it’s not a catastrophe if we’re hanging out in a couple hours from now.

I think I have the ability to turn things around. Because like I said, I know the areas where I’ve been weak and they can be adjusted fairly simply. Most of it is just allowing space. And somehow visualizing her as a cat. I have to accept and let her do and go when she pleases and not let that say something about me. Which I thought it did before.

 

[flowtheory]

A 180 degree turn. If you did that right from your apology to her on Wednesday, which it sounds like you may have? This may salvageable. That’s a big maybe.

Expect a massive amount of tests for the next month. I guarantee that. And failing one could be your demise.

I would expect her to tell you about other potential guys who approached her, her going out with girlfriends for drinks, her prioritizing her cat over you, probably no sex, her being elusive. So really listen to @Atom Smasher in the cat anaology. Because hey, she did call you that one night. An uninterested woman wouldn’t strategically wait until the end of the day to reach out. She was seeing what you were going to do.

You need to DO YOUR OWN THING. Almost pretend she doesn’t exist in a weird way. Let her reach out to you. Show her that you’re doing you. It will be through your actions and absense that you will gain back that interest. Right now she’s entertaining what you have to say and do, but holding the rope between you and very ready to severe.

She said she wasn’t 100% sure she wanted to end it. But I bet she’s just afraid to be alone. Or she’s probably sitting at 95% ready to be done.

Tough situation. I know letting go is very difficult especially if you’re not done yourself. So just really get your sh!t together like your life depended on it

 

[Epic Days]

I see what’s on the line, Epic. It’s not just a woman. The woman is feedback of my poor behaviours and doings. Right now it’s not good. But it’s not a catastrophe if we’re hanging out in a couple hours from now.

I think I have the ability to turn things around. Because like I said, I know the areas where I’ve been weak and they can be adjusted fairly simply. Most of it is just allowing space. And somehow visualizing her as a cat. I have to accept and let her do and go when she pleases and not let that say something about me. Which I thought it did before.

Well if you get hit and loose body parts, remember, you did it. Not one thing is on her. There’s nothing wrong with her.

I highly recommend you go for it. Fortunately this is not a fatal situation. When it starts running a little smoother and you at feeling secure again...move in with her or have her move in with you.
It will be cheaper for both. Just think, you will be able to capture her and make a go of it.

I support you and your goal.