Suddenly ditched by a girl with daddy issues; beta behavior doing the damage;

Rodrigo

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Hey folks!

I’ve been read-only here on and off for a couple of years and finally decided to make a registration.
This place does indeed provide very precious information as long as one knows how to read and absorb it properly.

I wanted to talk about/share a couple of things, ask a few questions, better yet share what thoughts & conclusions I’ve come up with and of course get some constructive feedback from the squad here.

Hopefully, it doesn`t get an awfully long and boring post. Feel free to ask me anything in case you believe I might have missed to share. (Also, accept my apologies in advance in case you fail to grasp anything you read, as I’m not a native English speaker and haven`t been actively writing for quite some time)

Let’s start with the main thing. I got dumped at the beginning of this month. Let me clarify – I also got dumped thru a Viber message by another chick in January as well. The difference between the two situations: in the former I didn`t really care for more than the rest of the day cuz I knew I wouldn`t fall for the girl anyway (maybe she sensed it as well) despite the fact I had prepaid by the time a 4-day SPA vacation for the end of March (around her birthday and yes, would’ve split the money). Now, the second one did indeed hurt quite a bit. The reason is simple and obvious. I had invested too much. As a matter of fact that was maybe the first time in perhaps 5-6 years that I happened to fall for one particular gal so deeply. I had already begun to think I’ve somehow become emotionally neutered or something.

Anyways, a few things about the girl: she is a co-worker, 19 ½ years of age. I’m 34. She came last autumn and I didn`t really notice her until right before the Christmas holidays when we have a tradition of this Secret Santa thing (anyone involved basically pulls a name of another guy or girl from the pile and goes to buy a small present (a book, a bottle of liqueur, some souvenir, etc). I happened to pull her name and from that moment on we slowly began talking and warming up to each other. Everyone around (me too) would notice by then that she seemed extremely closed off, introverted and would barely attempt to socialize with other colleagues. Whenever someone would walk up to her and engage her in some small talk, she’d normally talk back but would never be the active side. Fast forward - by the beginning of February we would progressively keep falling for each other and I could tell she was investing just as much as me in the interaction(s), sometimes even more. We started sharing some intimate things about our lives, families and so on and so forth. Our connection was getting stronger by the day.

Let me mention the downside of the “relationship”. We couldn`t have sex. Both of us wanted it, but the situation was out of our control. She has a curfew and not only is she not social and outgoing but her Mom controls her a lot and would’ve never allowed her to have a sleepover or go out until late at night. Yes, the girl told me that during her only previous relationship with some high school sweetheart, she would have a few sleepovers at his place but her Mom would call her a bunch of times during the evening to check on her and besides, I think she knew the boy and his parents so maybe was a bit easier on her sleepovers. Not once I’d try to talk her into standing up against her Mom and fight for her freedom as she is not minor any longer and is now earning her own paycheck but didn`t indeed have much success as she was seemingly not yet quite comfortable with standing her ground in front of her Mom and was definitely not willing to move out just yet.

Well, with the above being said and the fact we work together, that pretty much left us with very scarce alone time. We would usually sneak out of the office on breaks (thru separate exits as she is my subordinate and neither of us wanted anyone else to suspect anything) and meet up at some bench a few hundred feet away from our office building…and only hug and make out and talk sweet stuff to each other. Normally, I’d cut off such kind of relations right off the bat and just walk away but now it just felt different and I was like…full of life. Maybe it was her innocence and helplessness that attracted me to her so much (at that time I’d never heard of the term “captain-save-a hoe” yet) or maybe that I was able to literally beat to the punch a few other guys at the office who were trying to approach her, or maybe the mere fact that I was able to hook up with a girl much younger than me was simply caressing my ego. Or maybe a combination of all those. Now, I was never hoping or making plans that I’d be able to make this a LTR or have her have my children; I just wanted to live it out, for the time it was meant to last. But inevitably, due to feelings and emotions I started to act like a solid beta. Like I’d always be available for her to chat until 4 am, I’d always be like an emotional tampon if she was feeling low. I’d always be the one trying to teach her things about life, give her advice, tell her wise things etc. I knew it was beta and would eventually eat my head off, I just didn`t care. And she would definitely look up to me, constantly saying she admires my attitude, my sense of humor, how beautifully I’ve aged (indeed many people that see me for the first time would give me 5-7 years less than my actual age) and stuff like that. (Yeah, right, what a cheap trap to fall into, ha).

Additionally, it deserves mentioning that she comes from a kind of dysfunctional family and had a very poor relationship with her Dad. Like he was some jackoff who would constantly diss her and tell off both her older brother and her especially and openly say in her face she was not worth it. Moreover, she was frequently bullied (physically and emotionally) both at school and in her family, by other relatives. When she turned 14, her folks finally divorced and her Mom took her and her brother and moved to the other granny’s apartment. 5 years they have been living in a really small place with virtually no personal space for anyone. She would sleep with her Mother in one of the bedrooms and her bro would sleep with the nagging granny in the other one. As I had indeed let my guard down by that time and kind of didn’t read the signs carefully, I just underestimated the situation and was caught by surprise. Apparently, those past events had definitely taken their toll on her. :(
 

Rodrigo

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......The beginning of the end started in the last week of April. I had already booked thru an agency a 10-day trip to Italy and Spain with two of my boys and she was okay with that. Plus, there was no way she could join me due to her mother (no way she was gonna be willing to let her go abroad for such a long time) and lack of money for the trip but she was very supportive and happy for my trip. The first few days were just fine. We would text back and forth almost all day as if we were back in our hometown. A sudden change in her behavior started to appear at around the 4th day of my trip. At first I’d just text her some random stuff and she would write back very short phrases, in a visibly way colder manner and hours later, as though I was some random acquaintance who would hit her up for her birthday. Then she’d stop answering at all and my messages would only be hanging in “seen’ on the messenger.

At around the 6th day I just got out of control and pushed her to the corner asking her what indeed was going on and why she was acting that way. Her reasoning was quite vague, like for instance “well, you know me…I tend to have such spells where I just like to have my alone time with a book in the hand and not talk to anyone” or “don’t worry babe, it’s not you, I don’t even chat to anyone at the office, not even to my mom and granny at home” or “don’t worry about me now, finish your trip and have a blast there, I’ll be fine”. Right there and then I already suddenly “got sober” and knew I was over the board and it was game over.

When I got home from the trip on 6th May I texted her to let her know I’m back safe and sound and asked her to meet up, even for 20 minutes, and just talk face-to-face. She rejected me, stating the simple but painful “I don’t want to”, followed by stuff like “I don’t want to play with your feelings. I don't know what exactly I’m feeling myself right now and just want to be alone and not think of relationships and flirts with anyone”.

The next day I tried again. She was doing night shift that day and I was about to finish work right when she was supposed to start her shift. I asked her to show up just 15 minutes earlier – again – she said “I don`t want to”. That last chat occurred at around 6 pm. I just raged out of control over the chat and told her she was acting in a completely childish, irresponsible and immature fashion and was treating like sh*t the guy whom she said “I love you” up until a few days ago, ten times a day, every day. After my harangue, she innocently came back with “what do you expect from a 19yo kid” to which I responded with “you can’t always seek excuses for your inadequate behavior; you can’t always run away and hide your face under the pillow every time you find yourself in a bad period. I wasn’t going to try to re-seduce you; I just wanted to have a few words with you face-to-face which I think is the least I deserve, merely from a human-to-human standpoint”. She ended the convo with the “surprising” “I only want to be sure you don’t hate me and don’t have bad feelings for me”. I then deleted her number and unfriended her on FB. I’ve been in NC ever since, with the exception of last Thursday when I got home wasted and decided to write her on Messenger some random stuff and link her some stupid song.

That’s pretty much the end of the story and I would`ve never taken the time of other users on here, have them read it out and give feedback, unless I believed it had some “custom” element in it. After our last conversation on Messenger, I was literally swallowing a ton of information in regards to young girls with daddy issues and the resulting frequent depression periods, low self-esteem, constant need of attention, reassurance and validation as well as trust and abandonment issues and fear of deeper relationship with guys going forward. I also read plenty of stuff (including a bunch of threads here) on possible getting an ex back, is it worth the effort and many things in my head cleared out rather well.

I was just wondering what exactly may have been the main driver for her to ditch me. Usually, the reasons why your girl could lose all the attraction for you and just walk away (with or without another dude in the picture) are quite known and well explained. I assume the responsibility and take all the bashing for acting out quite beta with her by catering to her emotional and psychological needs and attempting to fill some past gaps in her head. Initially, I may have thought that acting and treating her pretty much the exact opposite way, compared to her Dad might indeed attach her deeply to me. Then I spoke to a friend of mine, told him the story and he suggested that, as perverted as it may sound, often times girls with daddy issues would subconsciously enjoy from a dude the very same treatment as they used to receive from their father. They simply don’t know how to handle different (i.e. good and decent) treatment, beyond the simple necessity of receiving attention. In my humble opinion, over those 2-3 months she just fed her emotional needs of appreciation, adoration and attention that I was giving her and all of a sudden just had enough and somehow wanted to unhook herself and be free again. There are lots of things that I was blaming myself for during the first days after the break-up and one of them was that I erroneously believed that showering such a type of girl with attention would do the trick. I would have been much more careful if I was dealing with a girl with a normal family background. To put it simply – I wasn`t well prepared on the daddy issues subject as I had never had to deal with such girls before.

On a side note, I’d like to ask something about what a guy should do to maintain his relationship solid and healthy over time, being able to also maintain the attraction level of his lady towards him? The simple textbook answer is – be dominant alpha male, since women tend to get attracted to strong male personalities who won’t give in to their constant drama. On the other hand, how is that possible when/if the guy is indeed into the girl and has emotions/feelings for her? Don’t these two just cancel each other out? A rule of thumb is that emotions tend to make the guy weak and dependent and being weak means you’ll be quickly losing the control and the upper hand. I personally don’t want to be some robot, because I’m a human being and do have and want to experience emotions for/with someone I like. How do I do so without getting myself automatically in a weaker and dependent position? How am I supposed to keep the right balance past the 3rd month of the relationship? What about past the 1st year? It is next to impossible to always keep your guard up and be in a good shape and control of the relationship dynamics, right?
 

Serenity

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(Also, accept my apologies in advance in case you fail to grasp anything you read, as I’m not a native English speaker and haven`t been actively writing for quite some time)
Don't worry about that, it's better than many native English speakers.

How do I do so without getting myself automatically in a weaker and dependent position? How am I supposed to keep the right balance past the 3rd month of the relationship? What about past the 1st year? It is next to impossible to always keep your guard up and be in a good shape and control of the relationship dynamics, right?
I my opinion you're blaming yourself a bit too much with her. She was insecure, mainly because of her life experiences. That's why she did what she did. She was right about one thing, it was her, not you. Being alpha or beta or whatever would probably have made little difference in this case. Those things will matter more if the girl has confidence.

The answer to all these questions is to find the right woman. With the right woman all of that becomes trivial. You should focus on being more critical with the next woman you're attracted to. Had you done that with her you would have had your clarity a lot sooner. They need the qualities you're after when you meet them, changing them or "helping" them become better just won't work. A woman shouldn't be a problem for you to solve, it should be someone who is already complete and enhances your life. The exact criteria depends on your preferences, but knowing exactly how you want to woman to be is step 1 in finding a woman like that. I'm pretty sure you didn't want her having these problems, that's why you tried helping her, this shouldn't be necessary.

too long my dude
Just hit the "back" button then. No need to b!tch about it.
 

Spaz

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You should have been stern and displayed assertiveness, then she'd open up.

Instead you acted like her mommy.

She doesn't need another mommy.
 

Rodrigo

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Instead you acted like her mommy.

She doesn't need another mommy.
That's true. As mentioned though, I was just following the most simple logic there is: she used to be treated bad within the family, so I'll then show her all the affection she has been missing on growing up. Undermining the potential problem, combined with not having sufficient knowledge on the subject back then eventually sealed the deal***. Lesson learned, I guess. Next girl I happen to fall for, I'll make sure I get some background info on her adolescent years and family environment and if they are even remotely similar to the ones that girl had , I'll just run head over heals.:)

As Grewd stated - we guys have no business trying to fix a woman's head or any woman who grew ****ed up due to whatever reasons. We'd only become part of the problem that way. Let's leave that to the certified experts to deal with.

***I now remember she mentioned a couple times that there were plenty of boys interested in her who eventually would not show enough patience cracking her barriers and end up walking away too fast. Stupid me apparently took that as an obvious hint that some additional persistence and patience on my end would get the job done, whereas in fact it was most likely a hidden display of the abandonment issues she had developed. Well, who knows?
 

Spaz

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That's true. As mentioned though, I was just following the most simple logic there is: she used to be treated bad within the family, so I'll then show her all the affection she has been missing on growing up. Undermining the potential problem, combined with not having sufficient knowledge on the subject back then eventually sealed the deal***. Lesson learned, I guess. Next girl I happen to fall for, I'll make sure I get some background info on her adolescent years and family environment and if they are even remotely similar to the ones that girl had , I'll just run head over heals.:)

As Grewd stated - we guys have no business trying to fix a woman's head or any woman who grew ****ed up due to whatever reasons. We'd only become part of the problem that way. Let's leave that to the certified experts to deal with.

***I now remember she mentioned a couple times that there were plenty of boys interested in her who eventually would not show enough patience cracking her barriers and end up walking away too fast. Stupid me apparently took that as an obvious hint that some additional persistence and patience on my end would get the job done, whereas in fact it was most likely a hidden display of the abandonment issues she had developed. Well, who knows?
That's the logic of a man molding towards a girls needs.

The proper play for a man is to mold her or any women to your needs, you lead, she follows.

If you can't do that then attraction is lost.

Like I said she doesn't need another mommy. She needs a man to lead her.
 

Robert28

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Question, did you ever sleep with this girl? Did you do ANYTHING sexually with this girl?
 

Rodrigo

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Like I said she doesn't need another mommy. She needs a man to lead her.
Look, I know that rule. Knew it while with her as well. Apart from my beta mistakes that I described, I needed to fight against circumstances way out of my influence (her Mother's control, curfew, logistics, etc.) Perhaps, everything was doomed from the very beginning. Yeah, she may be banging some dude this very minute, as we speak, who knows but I just never viewed her as a f**ck material in the first place (probably another mistake of my mindset).

Not seeking excuses for what I did wrong-it's already done and case is closed anyhow. Just suggesting that perhaps had I gone by the book (too much of leadership and submission) I may have scared her away.

Normally, I'm not afraid if a chick walks away from me due to whatever reasons but just with this one I wanted to play a tad more carefully. Apparently, I chose the wrong approach and point is taken. I'll just think positively and try to trick my mind into considering that one as a much needed emotional doping which I had been missing out on for some time, although there was no actual "happy ending"

The only question that I couldn't quite find an answer to and urged me to open the thread in the first place was what % of her decision to walk away was due to loss of attraction because of the whole bunch of fundamental mistakes I made and what % was due to some reemerging mental/psychological issues which I obviously oversaw?
 

marmel75

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Lmao...this is beyond lame bro...I didnt even bother reading the whole post. Once i read "she couldn't have sex because she couldn't sleepover or stay out late"

I knew this was you getting played by her and acting like a love sick puppy. Bro let me tell you something. If she WANTED to have sex with you, you would have been banging her in the bathroom at work or any other place you two could find.

You simply had a woman who wasn't that interested in you but she had nothing else going on. Once she found someone she was actually sexually interested in you got dropped like a hot potato.

You have a lot to learn. Start reading up on the DJ Bible and other things because anyone that thinks they have a girlfriend when there is no sex involved is in need of serious help with women.
 

Serenity

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Normally, I'm not afraid if a chick walks away from me due to whatever reasons but just with this one I wanted to play a tad more carefully. Apparently, I chose the wrong approach and point is taken.
Yes, you should lead and it's great that you realize the mistake you made. I don't think it would have mattered in this specific case what approach you chose though. Women with such baggage are too emotionally unstable and can sometimes make choices like that for any or no reason at all, leaving you to look for a rational reason when there is none.

The only question that I couldn't quite find an answer to and urged me to open the thread in the first place was what % of her decision to walk away was due to loss of attraction because of the whole bunch of fundamental mistakes I made and what % was due to some reemerging mental/psychological issues which I obviously oversaw?
As I say above, in this particular case I don't think your actions would make much of a difference. That doesn't minimize the importance of improving the personal weaknesses you identified in yourself, but you should definitely not blame yourself for this failure. She might have stayed if you acted in broken ways yourself, but that's probably not something you'd like, is not healthy and not worth it. So I don't see how this could have ended any other way considering her back story.

Lmao...this is beyond lame bro...I didnt even bother reading the whole post. Once i read "she couldn't have sex because she couldn't sleepover or stay out late"
If you had kept reading you would have noticed that he already realizes this...
 

Spaz

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Look, I know that rule. Knew it while with her as well. Apart from my beta mistakes that I described, I needed to fight against circumstances way out of my influence (her Mother's control, curfew, logistics, etc.) Perhaps, everything was doomed from the very beginning. Yeah, she may be banging some dude this very minute, as we speak, who knows but I just never viewed her as a f**ck material in the first place (probably another mistake of my mindset).

Not seeking excuses for what I did wrong-it's already done and case is closed anyhow. Just suggesting that perhaps had I gone by the book (too much of leadership and submission) I may have scared her away.

Normally, I'm not afraid if a chick walks away from me due to whatever reasons but just with this one I wanted to play a tad more carefully. Apparently, I chose the wrong approach and point is taken. I'll just think positively and try to trick my mind into considering that one as a much needed emotional doping which I had been missing out on for some time, although there was no actual "happy ending"

The only question that I couldn't quite find an answer to and urged me to open the thread in the first place was what % of her decision to walk away was due to loss of attraction because of the whole bunch of fundamental mistakes I made and what % was due to some reemerging mental/psychological issues which I obviously oversaw?
Ur thinking is feminine.

It's even manifested in the way you write here.

She lost attraction in you later, she might have some at the beginning as u r an older mature man but you reek of female thinking and that makes you useless. Even a 10 year old girl will be turned off by this.

As for the %, it's 100% you.

All women are in some form or other a mental case by men's standards, you as a man offer them balance, a rock to their fickle minds to hold onto by generating masculine energy.

This is why women are attracted to men.
 

Rodrigo

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@Spaz,

Care to elaborate what exactly makes my thinking sooo feminine? If it is the fact that I got emotionally hooked by this very girl or I'm not the unscrupulous beast pick up communities teach us to be, so be it. Yes, true - emotions make us weak. I know that. I don't usually happen to get attached to each girl I talk to, nor would I stick around for almost three months if at least some sex is not secured but I damn sure deny turning myself into a completely emotionless human being for the sake of not getting dumped or replaced by another dude. What's the point of that? We are all replaceable, one way or another. If one'd only target to get laid and then run away, afraid to get involved further on, he'd better call up a hooker. Quick, easy, no follow-up needed, no drama.

On a side note - how would you handle a visibly emotionally shaken girl, with daddy issues, anxiety, depressive periods and overall feeling insecure of herself? One thing I learned recently is that one should better keep away from such girls in the first place but let's assume you felt attracted to one for whatever reason (beyond her appearance). So, you see a weak, insecure, borderline helpless creature in front of you and you're telling me you won't show any sympathy? At least some? Won't be supportive and try to hammer some positive thoughts in her head? Yes, I definitely believe I was trying to offer her balance all the damn time and be there for her and cut off any dark thoughts she may start to speak out, not trying to overdo the mothering/fathering part.

I think I was quite stable emotionally up until the 4th day of my trip when she suddenly started to push me away and I felt like I was caught with a big right by Deontay Wilder - no way I could react and get back up on my feet. Failed to see it coming.
 

mrgoodstuff

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@Spaz,

Care to elaborate what exactly makes my thinking sooo feminine? If it is the fact that I got emotionally hooked by this very girl or I'm not the unscrupulous beast pick up communities teach us to be, so be it. Yes, true - emotions make us weak. I know that. I don't usually happen to get attached to each girl I talk to, nor would I stick around for almost three months if at least some sex is not secured but I damn sure deny turning myself into a completely emotionless human being for the sake of not getting dumped or replaced by another dude. What's the point of that? We are all replaceable, one way or another. If one'd only target to get laid and then run away, afraid to get involved further on, he'd better call up a hooker. Quick, easy, no follow-up needed, no drama.

On a side note - how would you handle a visibly emotionally shaken girl, with daddy issues, anxiety, depressive periods and overall feeling insecure of herself? One thing I learned recently is that one should better keep away from such girls in the first place but let's assume you felt attracted to one for whatever reason (beyond her appearance). So, you see a weak, insecure, borderline helpless creature in front of you and you're telling me you won't show any sympathy? At least some? Won't be supportive and try to hammer some positive thoughts in her head? Yes, I definitely believe I was trying to offer her balance all the damn time and be there for her and cut off any dark thoughts she may start to speak out, not trying to overdo the mothering/fathering part.

I think I was quite stable emotionally up until the 4th day of my trip when she suddenly started to push me away and I felt like I was caught with a big right by Deontay Wilder - no way I could react and get back up on my feet. Failed to see it coming.
Your not her therepist. As you see dealing with her alters your emotional state.
 

Robert28

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I’ve dated a girl exactly like this, only exception was she was 33 and had been married and had a kid. Everything else is the exact same though, she also had severe anxiety and depression. I didn’t know all these issues going in, but when I found out (albeit slowly) I was already invested. You can’t “save” these people from their fvcked up life, it’s tempting but you just can’t. They connect with guys that treat them like crap and cause a ton of drama in relationship, they have to chase you 24/7 and the more you treat them weird the more they fall for you. I think you tried to force a relationship from the beginning and you can’t do that, you have to make them pursue it and dangle it in front of them like a carrot. ESPECIALLY WOMEN LIKE THIS. When she dialed back you should have dialed way back. I did this all the time with the girl I saw and it drove her crazy but it worked and she respected me for “ghosting her” so she could come begging me back. It’s constant **** with women like this, it doesn’t matter if it’s 3 months or 3 years, you have to play the game with them 24/7/365. The reason the other guys ran away is because they saw a girl that was too much trouble and the payoff wasn’t worth it, she was basically telling you what to do and you didn’t listen. Mine told me about how her ex was abusive and a narcissist all the time and I should have done just that except I have no clue how to be a narcissist whatsoever. It connects with her though because she admitted he was her first true love, even counting the time she was married. That should tell you everything you need to know.
 

Robert28

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Oh and I walked away from her after it got to where she didn’t kiss me for 3 consecutive times we hung out. I knew something was up after the 2nd time but I went back one more time to make sure. She started treating me like a friend but never gave me the friend speech, I just said fvck this and walked. She’s emailed me a few times but I haven’t even responded or read the last 2.

I could have come right out and asked her why she kept turning her cheek or she’d make it impossible to kiss her all of a sudden. I know my breath doesn’t stink, I knew she was leading me into the friend zone or getting ready to dump me, she was just keeping me around for who knows what. I probably triggered her abandonment issues with my ghosting but I don’t give a damn. She knows why I walked, if she doesn’t then oh well.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Tl:DNR lulz

At 36, should be on your purpose. If it happens, cool but, stack probability out of your favor. Never date at work. Blow back isn't worth it. Furthermore, if **** pops off, your head is on a stick.

At 19, the frame should be, she's a kid, too young for you, not your type. It's challenge accepted requirement on her part. As in, she must drop dtf IOIs on steroids. She puts out. She's showing up at yoyr place nude or semi nude. She is swallowing proteins.

Ambiguity = #nextSet
 

JayAce

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Don’t get too invested in any woman... much less a 19 year old. Hit it sure, but you fell too hard. Daddy issues plus being so young... this was a no win from the start.
 
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