Constructive Discussions

[speed dawg]

Perhaps once every 2 months I get this. She will be really difficult for no reason. Sleeping on couch for some fabricated BS for some minor fault. Then it’s gone in a day.

Wait, wut? You are sleeping on the couch, or her??

Unfortunately this has been my general experience of womankind for many a year. Unfathonable emotional instability. No logic.

You are just now figuring this out?

 

[Fruitbat]

I do seem to find most of these threads end up with the conclusion “you’re losing frame and being a *****” (paraphrased)

Women are not all about shyt testing fellas. I’m not responsible and the centre of everything she thinks and feels and it’s not always in order to test your mettle as a man, and any sharing of an issue doesn’t always need to predictably go back to that premise.

She has a fair few “actual” issues as regards to getting what she wants in life and valid reasons to be upset.

I completely agree with any poster who has correctly identified the communication/problem solving issue which was at play here, but I think it’s pretty normal for a man to want to help his much younger and inexperienced wife on the road of life. If your wife is unhappy about something, it is not always a test, those are pretty obvious TBH. Sometimes she is frustrated by a genuine issue. What kind of man doesn’t work to make his family and wife happy and successful? That is our primary role in life, and there is nothing beta in doing so! Indeed, shrugging off these responsibilities in the pursuit of personal satisfaction and gain are the hallmarks of an immature male.

I’m firmly of the conviction that all but an immature teenage girl is going to want a guy who walks off when she has an issue and lose respect for a man who does go some way to assist her and help her build a better life. This doesn’t mean coming home from work when she has a broken nail, yet if she is clearly distressed by something in her life, there is nothing amiss with calmly discussing that. If she chooses to not deal with that in a constructive way, that’s her choice. That’s exactly what happened here and I vented this by sharing on here. Not by simping up or losing my temper and cool.

 

[speed dawg]

I do seem to find most of these threads end up with the conclusion “you’re losing frame and being a *****” (paraphrased)

Refer to my post #20.

Women are not all about shyt testing fellas. I’m not responsible and the centre of everything she thinks and feels and it’s not always in order to test your mettle as a man, and any sharing of an issue doesn’t always need to predictably go back to that premise.

You should be.

She has a fair few “actual” issues as regards to getting what she wants in life and valid reasons to be upset.

I completely agree with any poster who has correctly identified the communication/problem solving issue which was at play here, but I think it’s pretty normal for a man to want to help his much younger and inexperienced wife on the road of life. If your wife is unhappy about something, it is not always a test, those are pretty obvious TBH. Sometimes she is frustrated by a genuine issue. What kind of man doesn’t work to make his family and wife happy and successful? That is our primary role in life, and there is nothing beta in doing so! Indeed, shrugging off these responsibilities in the pursuit of personal satisfaction and gain are the hallmarks of an immature male.

I’m firmly of the conviction that all but an immature teenage girl is going to want a guy who walks off when she has an issue and lose respect for a man who does go some way to assist her and help her build a better life. This doesn’t mean coming home from work when she has a broken nail, yet if she is clearly distressed by something in her life, there is nothing amiss with calmly discussing that. If she chooses to not deal with that in a constructive way, that’s her choice. That’s exactly what happened here and I vented this by sharing on here. Not by simping up or losing my temper and cool.

Again, you know the red pill, but you haven't accepted/internalized it. Long way to go. It's worse when you're in denial about the help you get here.

 

[Fruitbat]

Refer to my post #20.


You should be.


Again, you know the red pill, but you haven't accepted/internalized it. Long way to go. It's worse when you're in denial about the help you get here.

If you seriously think you should be the centre of someone’s thoughts and life, you’re most likely a narcissist looking for a co-dependent.

Id appreciate it if you left me alone Speed Dawg. I always come away from these interactions feeling they are more for your benefit than mine. I know you hold strong convictions on this red pill stuff, and I know you think I’m weak and naive to not go along with that. Let’s just agree we hold contrary views on that. Alternatively, you might rephrase things without the need to dig.

I know, it’s at my great peril that I don’t heed the red pill, don’t come crying to you etc etc. Health warnings and caveats fully read and countersigned.

 

[speed dawg]

If you seriously think you should be the centre of someone’s thoughts and life, you’re most likely a narcissist looking for a co-dependent.

Id appreciate it if you left me alone Speed Dawg. I always come away from these interactions feeling they are more for your benefit than mine. I know you hold strong convictions on this red pill stuff, and I know you think I’m weak and naive to not go along with that. Let’s just agree we hold contrary views on that. Alternatively, you might rephrase things without the need to dig.

I know, it’s at my great peril that I don’t heed the red pill, don’t come crying to you etc etc. Health warnings and caveats fully read and countersigned.

Fair enough.

The problem is, when you talk like you're the expert, you might give the impression to another poster that you know what you're talking about. This site is here to correct men's problems, not enable them.

 

[kingvavy]

you’re most likely a narcissist looking for a co-dependent.
.

You may want to take a long, hard look in the mirror, and I don’t mean that disrespectfully. We are here to help each other, and the language of the red pill is what works. If you’re trying to solve you’re wife’s problems for her, then you may be the one who is co-dependent. Whether you call it ‘co-dependent’, ‘rescuer complex’, ‘white Knight’ etc., it’s all the same thing. You’re getting solid advice here. Sit back, listen to your wife go on and on about her problems, and be done with it. Only she can figure out the solution to her situation. Why do you think it’s your job to do that? I can pretty much predict that the more you solve your wife’s problems for her, the more she will start to resent you over time, and eventually she’ll leave you for a guy who will just listen to her and screw her. A hard cawk and a good set of ears pal, that’s all she needs from you. And, you don’t actually have to listen to her, just pretend like you are. Nod your head, repeat some key phrases, make her feel like she was heard, then bend her over and do your thing.

Good luck!

 

[Fruitbat]

Fair enough.

The problem is, when you talk like you're the expert, you might give the impression to another poster that you know what you're talking about. This site is here to correct men's problems, not enable them.

I’ve never said I was an expert. You’re taking it that way because you can’t handle anything that challenges your own opinion. Perhaps a weakness in character you should work on.

 

[Fruitbat]

You may want to take a long, hard look in the mirror, and I don’t mean that disrespectfully. We are here to help each other, and the language of the red pill is what works. If you’re trying to solve you’re wife’s problems for her, then you may be the one who is co-dependent. Whether you call it ‘co-dependent’, ‘rescuer complex’, ‘white Knight’ etc., it’s all the same thing. You’re getting solid advice here. Sit back, listen to your wife go on and on about her problems, and be done with it. Only she can figure out the solution to her situation. Why do you think it’s your job to do that? I can pretty much predict that the more you solve your wife’s problems for her, the more she will start to resent you over time, and eventually she’ll leave you for a guy who will just listen to her and screw her. A hard cawk and a good set of ears pal, that’s all she needs from you. And, you don’t actually have to listen to her, just pretend like you are. Nod your head, repeat some key phrases, make her feel like she was heard, then bend her over and do your thing.

Good luck!

As a professional man of 37 years the idea of “bend her over and do your thing” being a key to a successful marriage falls a little short.

I think matters may be confused. I think what people are assuming is that I’m sat here at the beck and call, white-knighting etc. There’s a gulf between doing that and being a decent husband.

I know it’s a really key part of keeping a woman’s respect is to NOT run around like a domestic servant. I get that, but I feel that point is being picked up on unnecessarily.

I completely agree on the the dynamic of problem fixing v communication. The issue is, my wife has lived here for 2 years, is only now mastering English and does NOT have the capacity to do all the things she wants without some help and guidance.

I think some may have the image of a highly competent chick trying on with me to get me to do her laundry!

What I’m taking issue with is why this is assumed without further investigation. It’s almost as if the one type of woman we have experience with here is a ditsy airhead.

If I was in her country, she would need to give me a **** ton of help doing anything. She does when I am there. I’m dependent on her in her home country.

So it’s worthwhile understanding that before the biblical and theological DJ principles come out. I’m fully aware and well versed in what I’ve read here to not spend my life feeding her grapes and doing her homework!

I think the main thrust of the post is “how to get a woman to focus on realistic goals” rather than “how to retain frame” but the path always leads back there, it’s almost as if it’s a constant battle for some to keep their woman around.

According to the “enlightened” she has already cheated on me and left me 2 years ago, which never transpired. We are pretty solid.

It’s almost as if some want you to fail, but of course, I wouldn’t know what’s feeding that!

 

[AJ84]

I do seem to find most of these threads end up with the conclusion “you’re losing frame and being a *****” (paraphrased)

Women are not all about shyt testing fellas. I’m not responsible and the centre of everything she thinks and feels and it’s not always in order to test your mettle as a man, and any sharing of an issue doesn’t always need to predictably go back to that premise.

She has a fair few “actual” issues as regards to getting what she wants in life and valid reasons to be upset.

I completely agree with any poster who has correctly identified the communication/problem solving issue which was at play here, but I think it’s pretty normal for a man to want to help his much younger and inexperienced wife on the road of life. If your wife is unhappy about something, it is not always a test, those are pretty obvious TBH. Sometimes she is frustrated by a genuine issue. What kind of man doesn’t work to make his family and wife happy and successful? That is our primary role in life, and there is nothing beta in doing so! Indeed, shrugging off these responsibilities in the pursuit of personal satisfaction and gain are the hallmarks of an immature male.

I’m firmly of the conviction that all but an immature teenage girl is going to want a guy who walks off when she has an issue and lose respect for a man who does go some way to assist her and help her build a better life. This doesn’t mean coming home from work when she has a broken nail, yet if she is clearly distressed by something in her life, there is nothing amiss with calmly discussing that. If she chooses to not deal with that in a constructive way, that’s her choice. That’s exactly what happened here and I vented this by sharing on here. Not by simping up or losing my temper and cool.

You realize that many of not most of the men who post here don’t have long term relationships right? Some don’t seem to actually like women

As a professional man of 37 years the idea of “bend her over and do your thing” being a key to a successful marriage falls a little short.

I think matters may be confused. I think what people are assuming is that I’m sat here at the beck and call, white-knighting etc. There’s a gulf between doing that and being a decent husband.

I know it’s a really key part of keeping a woman’s respect is to NOT run around like a domestic servant. I get that, but I feel that point is being picked up on unnecessarily.

I completely agree on the the dynamic of problem fixing v communication. The issue is, my wife has lived here for 2 years, is only now mastering English and does NOT have the capacity to do all the things she wants without some help and guidance.

I think some may have the image of a highly competent chick trying on with me to get me to do her laundry!

What I’m taking issue with is why this is assumed without further investigation. It’s almost as if the one type of woman we have experience with here is a ditsy airhead.

If I was in her country, she would need to give me a **** ton of help doing anything. She does when I am there. I’m dependent on her in her home country.

So it’s worthwhile understanding that before the biblical and theological DJ principles come out. I’m fully aware and well versed in what I’ve read here to not spend my life feeding her grapes and doing her homework!

I think the main thrust of the post is “how to get a woman to focus on realistic goals” rather than “how to retain frame” but the path always leads back there, it’s almost as if it’s a constant battle for some to keep their woman around.

According to the “enlightened” she has already cheated on me and left me 2 years ago, which never transpired. We are pretty solid.

It’s almost as if some want you to fail, but of course, I wouldn’t know what’s feeding that!

same guy posted in another thread that book clubs turn women into witches.

As with most advice on any forum, grain of salt, take what makes the most sense to you and disregard the rest.

 

[Fruitbat]

You realize that many of not most of the men who post here don’t have long term relationships right? Some don’t seem to actually like women

same guy posted in another thread that book clubs turn women into witches.

As with most advice on any forum, grain of salt, take what makes the most sense to you and disregard the rest.

Buddy, when I was getting nothing and bitter all that stuff made a lot of sense.

Now returning as a level head it’s quite comical!

Is there a “relationship” part of this site? I thought the mature one would filter this out?

Still, some solid advice, just don’t see the need for a continual descent into penis measurement !

 

[kingvavy]

As a professional man of 37 years the idea of “bend her over and do your thing” being a key to a successful marriage falls a little short.

Wow, where to begin...first off, red pill you have not become. Yes, you’re clearly interested, but you still have not swallowed. Unfortunately, this may require you to achieve some knowledge through suffering as the Buddhists call it...

1. You’d be surprised at how many marriages fall apart because of bedroom issues. If you’re not doing her regularly, it’s the first sign that things are headed for misery, followed by divorce. Sex is everything. It is the glue that holds a relationship together. All of the other stuff, communication issues, compatible value system, blah, blah, are secondary. i.e. they lead to getting laid. Not getting laid? Bye-bye happy marriage. Getting laid regularly is the absolute key to everything.

2. Nobody is saying to go out of your way to be an *******. What I am saying is that women have more affinity for a man who listens to their problems than a man who fixes their problems. What the red pill states is: help your wife if you want to, but only do it if it is something you genuinely wish to do, on your terms. i.e. comes from within. If you’re helping your wife fix her problems at the expense of your own wants/needs, i.e. to inflate your own ego (i.e. I’m a good guy because I help my wife) then you will slowly start to resent your wife, and she will slowly start to resent you.

3. Nobody wants you to fail. This forum is all about men helping other men. Many of us, myself included, have seen the worst of what can happen and the advice we share comes from real life experience. The veteran posters on this forum, i.e. speedawg, are giving you solid advice.

You’re still blue pill my friend. Start listening more and talking less, both here, and with your wife.

 

[kingvavy]

same guy posted in another thread that book clubs turn women into witches.

You were warned. Many of them aren’t even that coy anymore. i.e. they actively advertise as being affiliated with Wiccah. Google ‘coven book club’ Feminism has never had the interests of your family unit at heart. Feminism has always been about the destruction of the family unit.

I’ll still be here when you’re wife leaves you and you’re living at your Mom’s, lying on her couch, crying yourself to sleep at night because you can’t see your kids anymore, and you had to take a night gig working as a walmart greeter to make your support payments. I’ll also still be here when you’re posting about how wrong you were, and how you’ve ‘now’ finally red pilled.

I may NOT be here when a Canadian team finally wins the Stanley cup. What is it, 25 years now? lol

 

[AJ84]

You were warned. Many of them aren’t even that coy anymore. i.e. they actively advertise as being affiliated with Wiccah. Google ‘coven book club’ Feminism has never had the interests of your family unit at heart. Feminism has always been about the destruction of the family unit.

I’ll still be here when you’re wife leaves you and you’re living at your Mom’s, lying on her couch, crying yourself to sleep at night because you can’t see your kids anymore, and you had to take a gig working as a walmart greeter to make your alimony. I’ll also still be here when you’re posting about how wrong you were, and how you’ve ‘now’ finally red pilled.

p.s. Leafs to go up 2-0, then lose game seven going into the 3rd with a 1 goal lead. 15 years since they won a playoff round...soon to be 16

I’m a female and a wife and yes, yes I too am a witch because I belong to a book club.
I don’t want to derail OP’s thread and I have to replace the straw on my broomstick now anyway so no time to chat.
*fade to evil crackly laughter*

 

[Roober]

This pretty much sums it up...

She just wants you to listen. Women talk to organize their thoughts, whereas men talk to find solutions. Well, your woman is not a man, so your solutions are only going to piss her off...

I would suggest reading "men are from Mars, women are from venus". The horrible advice in this thread is indicative of a clear misunderstanding of the fundamental differences between men and women.

 

[kingvavy]

I’m a female and a wife and yes, yes I too am a witch because I belong to a book club.
I don’t want to derail OP’s thread and I have to replace the straw on my broomstick now anyway so no time to chat.
*fade to evil crackly laughter*

you haven’t even read my post...I never said every wife who joins a book club is a witch. But I definitely hear that’s what you want to believe I said.,. It can take years before you’re recruited, if at all. But then again, doublespeak, twisting word meanings, misquoting, and outright lying to humiliate a man have always been the tricks of the trade. I can definitely see you have the potential...

I can also guarantee that someone in your book club is a witch, and they most definitely have you on their radar.

 

[speed dawg]

You realize that many of not most of the men who post here don’t have long term relationships right? Some don’t seem to actually like women

same guy posted in another thread that book clubs turn women into witches.

As with most advice on any forum, grain of salt, take what makes the most sense to you and disregard the rest.

Married for 11 years here.

I’m a female and a wife and yes, yes I too am a witch because I belong to a book club.
I don’t want to derail OP’s thread and I have to replace the straw on my broomstick now anyway so no time to chat.
*fade to evil crackly laughter*

No idea about your witchiness, but it is certainly funny that you are coming to this poor guy's aid. A woman is the only person agreeing with him. Oh, I certainly know how this goes, I used to be this guy.

Fruitbat, do what you're going to do. We'll be here when you need us.

 

[Alvafe]

aj is one of our female posters..

I’ve never said I was an expert. You’re taking it that way because you can’t handle anything that challenges your own opinion. Perhaps a weakness in character you should work on.

you are aware that also means you right? you said you are not naive well you kinda are, you are here since 2013 and are lacking the basic

gonna say what is really the issue, we as guys solve problems, that is what we do, think about the problem then find a way to solve it, woman are diferent, they want to talk to vent, to nag you to change and when you change she complain you are not the same one she meet and fell in love.

so what you do is simple listen to her, validate her feeling, tease her a little if it can make her smile or laught, ask questions, of why you don't do this? but don't try to solve her problem, most "comunication issues" comes from he never listen her, and that means she don't feel validate when she talk and I tell you

 

[kingvavy]

No idea about your witchiness, but it is certainly funny that you are coming to this poor guy's aid. A woman is the only person agreeing with him.

she’s not agreeing with me, she’s being sarcastic...I guess being married 11 years has put you out of the game. If you actually believed she was being legit, then that shows how out of shape you are. All good though, enjoy your married life, no sarcasm.

 

[LiveYourDream]

My other half is often disappointed with life and whinges about things (as women do) from time to time.

Tell her straight up that you are not interested in hearing her whine ever again. Period. Then don’t.

She wants a better job and more social life etc. So, I sit down and calmly discuss how I can help her.

Generally, she jumps around from idea to idea and the more I focus on the actual next step to moving forward (like doing CV, looking st courses) then she dodges to the next thing and avoids.

She is clearly more interested in whining than finding a solution. Quit engaging her whining. If she presents you with a goal she wants help to achieve, than she earns a meaningful conversation and your advice.

I have no idea how to help her. She gets literally upset the closer I get to setting a plan up.

Clarify the purpose of her talking with you, at that time. Ask her, Is she actually looking for help from you or is she wanting you to just listen? Then decide if you want to.

Often she gets pretty childish.

I remember being like this when I was young and had zero confidence. When I thought that I didn’t want to take the regular road and some giant golden egg would appear on my lap, if I wanted it bad enough.

She acts childish and you allow it. Better stop that pattern now.

She also wants YOU to bring her the golden eggs. She is not interested in working for them.

my solution finding just seems to infuriate her.

She’s not interested in your solutions. Can’t you tell yet??? Actions over words!

I completely agree on the the dynamic of problem fixing v communication. The issue is, my wife has lived here for 2 years, is only now mastering English and does NOT have the capacity to do all the things she wants without some help and guidance.

If she had stayed single, and you had not made her your gf and now wife, as quickly as you did, she would have been out in your city doing a whole lot more for herself, by now. She may have when she was single already. Her survival would have demanded it. You’ve allowed her, her excuses, and her playing dependent, to the degree she has. You’ve made it ok. I suspect you like her dependence and portrayed helplessness, on some level, otherwise you would have expected and demanded more from her, by now.

I think the main thrust of the post is “how to get a woman to focus on realistic goals” rather than “how to retain frame” but the path always leads back there, it’s almost as if it’s a constant battle for some to keep their woman around.

You are incorrectly assuming you have frame. You clearly don’t. She is not listening to you. She is not being respectful of you, your time, or the advice you give her. Get honest with yourself.

You are also more interested in pleasing her than she is in pleasing you.

You want her to focus on goals. Clearly she had no interest in actually focusing on goals, or she would be. She’s not, not because of her poor English but because she does not really want to. You’ve allowed what is and already made it acceptable.

Before you even married her, I believe you posted multiple times about how unmotivated she was back then and how much it frustrated you and you did not understand it. I think you posted about her not even keeping up with the basics of keeping a clean house and how it frustrated you. I think you may have even said you felt she was lazy. You not only stayed with her you went ahead and married her.

If you married her expecting her to change into someone else, I think you are in for a very rude awakening. People are who they are.

She is not interested in being different right now, otherwise she already would be or she at least would be actively be working on it. If she really wanted help to set new goals for herself, or as a couple, SHE would already be taking action AND having constructive conversations, to further that. She doesn't. She just chooses to whine.

You use her lack of knowing the language well, after 2 years there, as the reason she needs to be so dependent on you. As I recall she lived in your area without you, just fine, before you two met. Why is it an acceptable excuse now?

If I recall correctly, you two were having unprotected sex, with the intent of her getting pregnant and having your first child, at any time now. If you still are, I HIGHLY recommend you stop that and use contraception. I think you are going to realize that there is a bigger divide between your fantasy and the reality, in your relationship than you were anticipating. Reality of who she is and what life will be like together can be a rough ride. Not all make it.

Facing that without a child is one thing. Facing the possibility someday, of splitting up and having your child suddenly moved, away to her home country, and then potentially being forced to move there too, in order to be part of your child’s life, is way beyond worth the risk, IMHO, at least at the moment, as things are playing out as they are. While you may think divorce will never happen to you, and I hope it doesn’t, it happens to people everyday, who also thought it would never be them. Make wise choices. Each one counts. They add up over time. Bringing a child into the world does NOT make your relationship with your wife better or closer. It amplifies everything that already isn’t working. Don’t think you are immune.

People aren’t specifically wanting you to fail. People caution you from their experience. Be wise to consider it. Be honest with yourself about the issues at hand and address them straight up rather then letting them continue to fester in your relationship.

TL;DR I suspect she is not personally interested in making changes herself, as much as she just wants you to give her more of an exciting life.

 

[Atom Smasher]

This pretty much sums it up...

She just wants you to listen. Women talk to organize their thoughts, whereas men talk to find solutions. Well, your woman is not a man, so your solutions are only going to piss her off...

I would suggest reading "men are from Mars, women are from venus". The horrible advice in this thread is indicative of a clear misunderstanding of the fundamental differences between men and women.

The book you mention has some merit, but it was written by an extraordinarily effeminate man. I found myself having to take some of what he said with a grain of salt.

The modern philosophy is that we men are “supposed to” suppress common sense and rationality by constantly biting our tongues while she prattles on about her issues. I reject that.

I’m fortunate in that my woman doesn’t do that at all. And lo and behold, when she talks, I listen!

“Normal and balanced” is not what women are today. They are by and large not sane. They are unable to think clearly and are positively addicted to emotion. This is why they need male guidance.

There’s nothing wrong with just listening when you see that she is figuring out a solution on her own. What I won’t allow is for a woman to use me a a barf bag, just spilling her guts with an implied threat that I will be in her doghouse if I offer some help.

That is abuse at the man’s expense. This is abnormal and an indication of corrupt thinking.

Does anyone think women were this way 60 or 70 years ago? Or in the old West when every day was a challenge to survive? No, they didn’t dump on their men with all this emotion. They were too busy living and surviving and raising a family.

The problem is too much television and other media, and too much free time to sit on their asses soaking all that poison in.

I repeat that women need male guidance in order to function normally. The fact is, though, that there are very few male guides left.

Most men are sitting around trying to figure out how to avoid offending women. Our grandfathers’ generation on back through history could never have even dreamed that things would become like this.

There’s nothing wrong with listening to a woman talk about what’s bothering her unless she gets stuck on it and expects you to just listen quietly over and over. That’s when the foot comes down. Dump on your friends, not on me.