Is she powerplaying me?

[Die Hard]

Agreed

IMO the correct way to handle this situation would have been to tell him that her feelings were hurt and give him another couple of dates to see if this was who he really is.

Exactly. It was not my intention to hurt her feelings, I was just busting her balls. But the remark touched a nerve with her, and that's okay. Then it's up to me to explain that I didn't mean to hurt her feelings and try to make her feel better. Which I did.

Apparantly, two days later she decided it still bugged her. Fine, so let's talk about it...if people don't communicate, shyt doesn't get resolved. So I asked her to talk to me on the phone but she decided she wanted to "punish" me some more by telling me "We'll have to see" and basically rejecting my offer to talk.

That's where I cross the line. I had honest intentions for that talk, I was planning to reassure her that I wouldn't make a similar comment again, now that she showed that it really hurt her. And if she would've expressed that it really hurt her, I would've shown her that I understood, with honest intentions. I don't like hurting people, that's not who I am...
Furthermore, I would've suggested to meet up again so she could see if I meant what I said. After all, it's kinda irrational to judge someone based on one little comment which he didn't mean as an intentional insult (and remember, I did and said many other things that night, which WERE flattering and gave her a good feeling). You can't pick one negative moment and judge someone on that, amidst all his other behavior which was positive. Well, you can...but it's immature and unfair to the other person. So I would've suggested to meet again and see for herself if it was an unintentional incident or that I would show more of that behavior.

It would've been an honest conversation from my side. But she didn't give me the chance and decided to "punish" instead, by rejecting my offer to talk.

That there, was the confirmation that she's an immature game-player. She's said other things during our interactions that pointed to this, but not enough to draw conclusions. But this behavior in the end, was the confirmation after all. If she's like this now, she'll be like this in future conflicts.

1. Man hurts woman
2. Woman acts angry to man
3. Man apologizes, reassures her that it won't happen again, does things to cheer her up and make her feel good again
4. Woman let's go of her grudge
5. Situation ends, they continue enjoying each other.

That's how it should go. But many women can't let stuff go and hang the guy's behavior over his head even after step 3. Then it's more like:

1. Man hurts woman
2. Woman acts angry to man
3. Man apologizes, reassures her that it won't happen again, does things to cheer her up and make her feel good again
4. Woman won't let go of her grudge and keeps acting angry towards the man
5. Man did all he could and feels she is treating him unfairly now, so he tells her to fvck off

In fact, she did let go of her grudge that night. As I have explained several times in this thread by now: she let go of it and later that night told me "I like us together, I want to meet you again" She smiled, grabbed my hand, I put my arm around her, things were good. Then two days later she decided she can't let go of her grudge after all. Which translates to:

1. Man hurts woman
2. Woman acts angry to man
3. Man apologizes, reassures her that it won't happen again, does things to cheer her up and make her feel good again
4. Woman let's go of her grudge
5. Situation ends, they continue enjoying each other.
6. Days, weeks or even MONTHS later, the woman suddenly brings up that moment where the man hurt her and hold it over his head AGAIN.
7. Obviously, the man feels treated unfairly by this tells her to fvck off.

It's almost a cliché, you see this type of interaction brought up during stand-up comedian's shows etc. It's something every man recognizes, I'm sure.

Perhaps I was in the wrong by not realizing that my "busting her balls" would feel like a strong insult to her. So then it's up to me to try to make things right, which I tried that night and she "accepted". Then she decided to hang it over my head again two days later, which feels kinda unfair to me but whatever, let's talk about it then. But she decided to reject the offer tot alk and wanted to "punish" me some more. So we reach the final step, where I feel she's obviously treating me unfairly and even abusing my good intentions, so I'm done with her.

This is very recognizable to any of the men here, I suppose. When you experience this type of behavior enough from women, you'll realize that being fair to them leads them to treat you unfairly. But when you treat them like shyt, it will result in them treating you fairly...

Which boils down to the classic rule: Nice guys finish last and jerks get all the girls.

 

[sazc]

@Die Hard I really think that you are the "victim" of her baggage in this situation. I'm not sure if she mentioned the dynamics of her last/last few relationships, but I would theorize that her past suitors might not have been as emotionally supportive/nice and, therefore, she is super sensitive about stuff, and screening heavily. She just doesn't want to take the chance to make the same mistake, again.

When trust hasn't been fully established between two people, its imperative that both parties understand that their personalities are not understood yet. Because of this, communication needs to be cared for. It takes time for trust to build.

You can adopt the mantra of "im going to be me and let the chips fall where they may" but if you do that (it's perfectly okay to do that) then you should also swallow that your 'success rate' is going to be lower as your brashness/boldness is going to push some people away (@guru1000 and @Amante Silvestre have mentioned this along the lines of 'failing because you are not catering to the female emotion')

My suggestion - and it's not going to be the popular sosuave alpha suggestion - is to let her cool off for a month and then send her a text that, if she was keen on you, might melt her a little....

"I wanted to send you a text because I have been thinking about you and wanted to see how you were doing"

best case scenario is she replies with "what have you been thinking?" and you can respond with something along the lines of "How I regret putting my foot in my mouth and hurting you unintentionally"

Notice how you are not apologizing to her, you are acknowledging that you unintentionally chose the wrong thing to say and you regret that it hurt her. That caters to her need to be apologized to, her need to have you acknowledge that you hurt her, her need for you to be empathetic and her need to feel supported in her feelings.

If the conversation goes favorably, invite her out for drinks, or a meal (even if you have to throw in the 'just friends' line) and see where things go. But, for gods sake, take care with your words and her.

 

[Music_czar]

• She said: "I am now ... (32)..."
• I couldn't help but smile, actually I had to laugh but I supressed it and this was obviously visible to her.
• I responded: "Well, you know how women lose their good looks quite rapidly once they passed 30"

This was game over for her.
Move on.

^ agree with this.

DH, this is the moment you lost her as a potential fvck. At this point, she turned on her sociopathic “I’m gonna get him back for what he said to me” switch which is why she continued to msg with you back and forth after your statement.. but it was all planned and calculated to get you back for attacking the very core of her femininity. This plan of hers was created in the blink of an eye.

Personally I like what you said, and I like even more how you blocked her after she sent her message of “yea maybe i’ll go out with you if I feel like it.”

However, she’s 32. Too old for you to spend your time trying to kiss a$$. You could have banged her easily, or used her to practice your charm for when you meet a girl in her 20s.

But you stuck to your guns I like that. Yes you could have charmed her/kissed her a$$ like some others in this thread have suggested, but you chose not to. ****y and funny has to be done right, lightly making fun of her nail polish or hair style would have been ok but when you attack her core values (ie flat out “old women are unattractive”) you cross the line in her eyes.

Good on you. I know you’re like most men and don’t have time for BS or “practice charm” but next time focus your attention on women in their early to late 20s max. And don’t cross the line when you do ****y + funny.

 

[lamath]

Chasing ANY woman is blue pill unless you got caught cheating on your wife and need to make amends, period. Chasing this particular girl in this manner is full beta like I said earlier. I mean we can relapse from time to time but you have to recognize it as such.

I think most of us know what to do in similar situation but sometime when you get to close to the light you get blinded. Texting for an other date is alright but when she flakes no more txting.

 

[Atom Smasher]

This is common sense to anyone who has actually dated a woman. Who says this stuff, even as a joke, to a woman on a date? I mean really, does anyone here expect a girl to actually be turned on by that statement. This is basic dating 101, and he failed.
Like come on lol if some girl looked at your penis and said well it’s kind of small but whatever. And you got understandably miffed and she said she was ‘just joking’, how would you feel?
F**k? It’s actually hilarious how stupid this was and how some here think she’s the one with the issues because she’s not swinging off his penis after basically being told she is undesirable.

Although he did screw up massively, your logic is flawed. He made a general comment about ALL women (or most). There was an implication that she herself might think of herself as included in those women who have “hit the wall”. Your crass analogy is based upon a direct, personal insult about him specifically. You seem to be quite obsessed with bringing everything to the male genitalia judging by your consistent posting about it.

@Die Hard, you truly did blow it by implying she would think of herself as losing her looks. Bro, you just don’t go there. This is a massive hot-spot for women. I’ve joked with my woman on that subject, but she’s a Naomi Watts clone and has soundly beat the odds. The one you were with was average-looking by your account. You said you were “joking” from one side of your mouth, and said it was a true principle from the other side.

The whole thing was cringe-worthy. I wouldn’t be so inclined to call her a game player. I don’t blame her for being offended. You let the genie out of the bottle and there was no saving it, especially after all that texting. With every text your position became weaker and weaker. Essentially you showed her a very clear lack of social calibration and there’s no way a woman is going to be able to get that out of her head.

 

[Atom Smasher]

If I blundered so badly I would have sent the following...

“Hey [Name], the other night was great, save for a little hiccup. Great relationships shouldn’t hinge on one misunderstanding, wouldn’t you agree? I noticed a lot of rapport. I say we hit the reset switch and give us the chance we deserve. What do you say? I’d like to see you again this Saturday.”

At least this would give it one last shot at salvaging without appearing weak. If she said no, fine. But she might have said yes, agreeing that it’s possible to get past it by “hitting the reset switch”. I’ve found that women respond well to that little phrase.

 

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Solipsism. Everything is personal to a woman. Especially statements that are critical of women in general.

For future reference, tell a woman that erectile dysfunction can be managed with testosterone pellets or injections, and penile injection therapy. Injection therapy will keep the little fellow as hard as a broomstick for two or three hours whether you like it or not. And whether she likes it or not. Work that golden 'giner over for three hours and she'll think limp ****. And, combined with testosterone pellets getting those levels up over 1200, injection therapy often eliminates the need for itself because it stretches out long underused tissues and stimulates circulation. Think of it as yoga for little richard. Yoga For Little Richard

 

[Mazer]

Do not share any red-pill material with the opposite sex especially on the first date. I made a comment about women hitting the wall a few weeks back with a woman I have been seeing for a long time and if it wasn’t for her extremely high interest in me, she would have most likely dropped me.
I also understand it’s difficult at times trying to keep this red-pill shyt to ourselves, especially when we see it happening right in front of us. Just nod And smile.

 

[Glassguy]

The entire situation reeks of the worst case of a scarcity mindset and chasing a woman right out the door.

Double texting. Triple texting. Trying to "sell" the woman on why he is such a great guy after she shut him down following a first date.

Begging for a few minutes for a phone call to justify what he did. It was a first date. You severely over invested.

She wasnt playing games with you OP. You just fail to see the signs she is showing from her interest being leveled to ZERO.

"We'll see" means: I am going to keep responding to you because I dont want to tell you know, but I hope you get the hint and stop messaging me.

You just kept going and going. You allowed her to mind fvck you because you didnt pay an ounce of attention because you wanted ONE chick so bad after only 1 date? Please explain that to me.

Desperation. Scarcity mindset. Trying to negotiate a relationship. Not identifying low/no interest. Then you're the victim? Jesus.

Newbies please read this. Never do these things.

 

[Cckybold]

Game over..

 

[Die Hard]

Update: No contact after I deleted her number and pretty much forgot about her. But I incidentally ran into her again this weekend (I suspected she might be there, though). We exchanged glances shortly but apart from that, I ignored her. Eventually she came up to me and started being all flirty, like nothing negative ever happened between us. I didn't reciprocate and acted distant towards her. Then she addressed the "conflict" from a few weeks ago, told me she may have overreacted blah blah, that she enjoyed our date and felt like there was a good connection between us, and that this outweighed the negative interaction between us.

So basically, she said exactly what I would've told her if she had agreed to get on the phone a few weeks ago, haha. She did add that she hoped I wouldn't make such comments anymore... I gotta admit this put a smirk on my face lol, but I told her in a serious tone that I obviously wouldn't make such comments anymore.

From there things were all positive, ended up making out in the car and eventually drove to her house. Sex was great, the kind of typical hot sex you have with crazy girls lol. Which brings me to the point I've been making in this thread several times: She's mentally unstable. I slept at her place, we had breakfast etc. and during all of this more red flags popped up...

I must admit that I initially thought or hoped that she was worthy of something more than sex. But I pretty much know that she isn't. So even though it's nice that we got back together after the "fight" and I really enjoyed being with her, I think I should move on. There's gonna be plenty of drama if I keep seeing her...been there done that too many times, I'm sick of that shyt.

When she addressed the earlier stuff and told me she hoped I wouldn't make such comments anymore, and I told her I obviously wouldn't, that was kind of a genuine moment between us. But fvck that, I think it's fabricated drama. I'm not sure whether that one comment really "hurt" her or that she just used it to start drama. Some girls just love that emotional rollercoaster too much, creating a fight just to experience the high feeling that comes when the two of you get back together...

To be honest, in hindsight I don't give a fvck that I ended up "getting the girl" after all. Call me AFC but I seriously long for a real connection with someone. All this meeting girls, dating them, getting through all the obstacles they put up etc. And for what? Sex is overrated.... And most of them simply aren't worth more than that. I seriously don't want to do anything with a woman anymore if I don't feel she is LTR material. Like sitting on the couch, watching a movie, putting an arm around her and just enjoy that kind of "intimacy" where you kinda cuddle with each other. Fvck that, why would I do that with a woman who isn't LTR potential? That kind of interaction only gets you emotionally attached to her, which causes you to feel like shyt when you break up with her, which you fvcking know is gonna happen sooner than later when you already knew from the start that she wasn't LTR material....

Then again, if most women you meet are not LTR material, and you don't have that kind of interaction with them, then when do you ever have that kind of interaction?

Ranger said something about this in one of his latest threads, how men and humans in general need intimacy and how a man crumbles when his wife withholds it from him, something to that extent... And he's right. Now you can spin plates all the time and get your intimacy from all those different women, but I gotta admit it never feels right to me. I want to have one woman, someone who repects me and whom I respect back, someone who doesn't just do things for me coz it gives her a reward, but because she's happy to see me happy. Or something.... Disney fairytale to some, potential reality to others (under the conditon that you build yourself up enough as a man to make women act that way towards you).

I can't get there, anyway. It's always the same fvking circle, which I can't break out of. Yeah, unless I pick a girl who's at least two points below me in sexual market value. They treat me just how I want to be treated, but I don't want THEM lol. But aside from that, I often feel like I can't find my peace anyway. It's like what they explain here: https://www.simplypsychology.org/attachment.html

Harlow concluded that for a monkey to develop normally s/he must have some interaction with an object to which they can cling during the first months of life (critical period). Clinging is a natural response - in times of stress the monkey runs to the object to which it normally clings as if the clinging decreases the stress.

He also concluded that early maternal deprivation leads to emotional damage but that its impact could be reversed in monkeys if an attachment was made before the end of the critical period. However, if maternal deprivation lasted after the end of the critical period, then no amount of exposure to mothers or peers could alter the emotional damage that had already occurred.

I make it no secret that my mom was a BPD who mindfvcked me throughout my childhood just like BPD women leave grown men devastated after a relationship with them. Emotional manipulation, gaslighting, treating me like shyt and unleashing hell at me if I dared hold her accountable for her behavior, the whole ding-a-ling, while I was a fvcking infant. How does an innocent and dependent infant deal with that if grown men can't even deal with such creatures? Whatever, I'm getting into victim mentality here.... Anyway, I obviously learned that she was a not a safe object to cling to, so I didn't. But if an infant doesn't have anyone to cling to, and therefor doesn't form a healthy attachment to some object, there will be emotional damage to that infant, just like the article says about the monkeys. And no amount of peers (read: relationships I have with women in my adult life) could alter the emotional damage that has already occurred in my youth.

I don't think I will ever recover from that damage and I guess it will always prevent me from having a healthy relationship with a woman.

I don't even know what my point is anymore, I need to go to bed haha. Anyway, back to the thread's main topic: You shouldn't say what I said to this girl! Which was discussed a long time ago in another thread, by the way! https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/discussing-smv-with-girls.217688/#post-2165487

 

[highSpeed]

Update: No contact after I deleted her number and pretty much forgot about her. But I incidentally ran into her again this weekend (I suspected she might be there, though). We exchanged glances shortly but apart from that, I ignored her. Eventually she came up to me and started being all flirty, like nothing negative ever happened between us. I didn't reciprocate and acted distant towards her. Then she addressed the "conflict" from a few weeks ago, told me she may have overreacted blah blah, that she enjoyed our date and felt like there was a good connection between us, and that this outweighed the negative moments between us.

So basically, she said exactly what I would've told her if she had agreed to get on the phone a few weeks ago, haha. She did add that she hoped I wouldn't make such comments anymore... I gotta admit this put a smirk on my face lol, but I told her in a serious tone that I obviously wouldn't make such comments anymore.

From there things were all positive, ended up making out in the car and eventually drove to her house. Sex was great, the kind of typical hot sex you have with crazy girls lol. Which brings me to the point I've been making in this thread several times: She's mentally unstable. I slept at her place, we had breakfast etc. and during all of this more red flags popped up...

I must admit that I initially thought or hoped that she was worthy of something more than sex. But I pretty much know that she isn't. So even though it's nice that we got back together after the "fight" and I really enjoyed being with her, I think I should move on. There's gonna be plenty of drama if I keep seeing her...been there done that too many times, I'm sick of that shyt.

When she addressed the earlier stuff and told me she hoped I wouldn't make such comments anymore, and I told her I obviously wouldn't, that was kind of a genuine moment between us. But fvck that, I think it's fabricated drama. I'm not sure whether that one comment really "hurt" her or that she just used it to start drama. Some girls just love that emotional rollercoaster too much, creating a fight just to experience the high feeling that comes when the two of you get back together...

To be honest, in hindsight I don't give a fvck that I ended up "getting the girl" after all. Call me AFC but I seriously long for a real connection with someone. All this meeting girls, dating them, getting through all the obstacles they put up etc. And for what? Sex is overrated.... And most of them simply aren't worth more than that. I seriously don't want to do anything with a woman anymore if I don't feel she is LTR material. Like sitting on the couch, watching a movie, putting an arm around her and just enjoy that kind of "intimacy" where you kinda cuddle with each other. Fvck that, why would I do that with a woman who isn't LTR potential? That kind of interaction only gets you emotionally attached to her, which causes you to feel like shyt when you break up with her, which you fvcking know is gonna happen sooner than later when you already knew from the start that she wasn't LTR material....

Welcome to modern feminism. About 95% of women are not worth it, period. And hoping and praying that you run into one of those 5% is like hoping and praying that you hit the lottery, wasting all your money on tickets. Say that sex is over rated? Maybe but take it from a guy who gets like none, I'd kill for regular chore sex, as sad as you might find that. So believe me, from the outside looking in on your situation, sucks that she isn't long term relationship material for you but hey, if you got to pound that good for an evening, that's probably the best that you can hope for. Take it for what it is and move on.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

you saved yourself future hassle, she's over sensitive so you'd of said something at some point down the road to hurt her feelings im sure. Just move on. I dated someone where everything I said hurt her feelings, it's no fun walking on egg shells around that type woman wondering what you're gonna say next to offend her.