King of the FriendZone

[stevieLA]

I'm puzzled by a situation of an acquaintance.

A great test case for "pickup theory." He does everything right: he is very assertive, confident, outgoing, sociable, organizes a ton of social events and parties. He dresses relatively well. He organizes AT LEAST one party or social event a week, sometimes more. Every week.

He has no problem talking to girls in our social group. Sometimes, he'll have long conversations with them. Usually not, but it happens. He has phone numbers for several girls in our group.

The thing is, he hasn't had a date the entire time I've known him, which is almost a year. I've seen him get rejected extremely harshly.

It's so strange that women find it easy to talk to him, will hang out with him at social events, but he can't get laid.

I don't understand why he's investing so much time when it should be clear to him that he's getting zero results. Is he of the mind that even these platonic interactions are better than nothing? Does he not get frustrated with having blue balls at every party? He invests so much more time with our group/s than just about anyone else, yet gets zero results. What's running through his mind?

To me, it seems like he is King of the FriendZone.

 

[Mike32ct]

He’s being blackpilled* left, right and center.

But he is still enjoying all the female attention and hoping it works out at some point. I give him credit for trying, but I don’t think a guy should have to make a second job out of organizing or maintaining a social circle.

*Rejected on the basis of looks.

 

[SoSuave666]

He’s being blackpilled* left, right and center.

But he is still enjoying all the female attention and hoping it works out at some point. I give him credit for trying, but I don’t think a guy should have to make a second job out of organizing or maintaining a social circle.

*Rejected on the basis of looks.

I rarely organize events unless it's a date or I want to go out with a few buddies. However, when other people organize events, I am typically someone that is early on the invite list. I find that much more telling...

 

[lamath]

He does not show intent fast enough. he should polarize new women first time he meet them.

Women friend should only exist for social proof.

He is like their gay bff, sad.......

 

[Mike32ct]

He does not show intent fast enough. he should polarize new women first time he meet them.

Women friend should only exist for social proof.

He is like their gay bff, sad.......

Looks stuff aside, reputation is important in a social circle. Yes, he has the reputation of the gay best friend, a cool guy but not dateable.

Given that reputation, he has little chance with existing girls in that social circle. His only chance (in that circle) is to make a move quickly on a (less attractive) NEW girl to the circle. He still has a “clean slate” with her because she hasn’t yet been exposed to the gossip.

Then the gossip that he hooked up with and/or is dating the new girl will improve his reputation tremendously.

 

[stevieLA]

The party organizer guy is constantly in attention seeking mode. He's always spamming facebook or other social media with stupid, juvenile comments.

The other social organizer is an obese woman who works very hard to look her best. She is just as energetic and devoted to creating events. It's almost like a second job for these two: they're constantly trying to bring new people into the pipeline, trying to maximize numbers to create the best chances of securing a date.

The obese woman actually does reasonably well, getting new guys to grind and kiss. She schedules late night club events to max out her opportunities.

He’s being blackpilled* left, right and center.

But he is still enjoying all the female attention and hoping it works out at some point. I give him credit for trying, but I don’t think a guy should have to make a second job out of organizing or maintaining a social circle.

*Rejected on the basis of looks.

But how does he maintain the will to keep going in the face of constant failure with zero success? It seems like he would take at least a brief time out at some point to reassess, maybe take a different route? Cut back on his investment?

 

[stevieLA]

The major takeaway is: use your resources wisely. Time is one of them. Don't fall into a rut with the same ol' same ol' if it doesn't work. If he's that stupid I can't feel sorry for him.

 

[touma.akagi]

Quit having parties with the same women (people, really) over and over again. It's amazing what this guy could accomplish if he, you know, disappeared for a while.

 

[stevieLA]

I've noticed in school and out of school: the least attractive people are the most active in organizing these social events.

I think they understand they have to work much, much harder to even stand a chance in the dating game. They're not even looking to hit a homerun necessarily. Maybe they just want the table scraps, so they just hang around before, during and after. After all, someone's bound to get sloppy.

But yeah, spamming doesn't really work. I think he's resigned to the fact that he's not going to date any pretty girls. But he likes their platonic attention and it makes him feel like a pimp even though he's the exact opposite.

Maybe it's like the guy who makes $29K a year who buys a 2001 bmw to try to look cool?

 

[Dash Riprock]

A few thoughts:

Your friend may be seen too much as the "nice guy." Every DJ knows the key to sexual attraction and seduction is to use the right amount jerk/as*shole/d*ickish behavior. Too much will get you DQ'd and not enough and you "nice guyed" and there's no sexual attraction in that.

He also needs to learn to flip them a little sh*it, tease, tell funny stories, and then use strategic touch moves to convey sexual interest. One of my favorites is, maybe an hour into the date, I'll use the restroom and then come back and move in on my date from behind (if she's standing), put my hand on her right shoulder, squeeze a bit, then slide my hand to the back of her neck and down her back a bit with my fingers (light caress) as I slide to her left and speak softly but confidentiality and ask with a small smile if she's having fun, doing alright, etc. Works every time. It turns them on and communicates I'm into them (if I am) and that I'm NOT Mr. Nice Guy/ Friend Boy. It says I what to f*uck her.

Basically, your friend needs to be more of a quasi-d*ick and more sexual in his interactions. The combination is a powerful weapon.

 

[stevieLA]

A few thoughts:

Your friend may be seen too much as the "nice guy." Every DJ knows the key to sexual attraction and seduction is to use the right amount jerk/as*shole/d*ickish behavior. Too much will get you DQ'd and not enough and you "nice guyed" and there's no sexual attraction in that.

He also needs to learn to flip them a little sh*it, tease, tell funny stories, and then use strategic touch moves to convey sexual interest. One of my favorites is, maybe an hour into the date, I'll use the restroom and then come back and move in on my date from behind (if she's standing), put my hand on her right shoulder, squeeze a bit, then slide my hand to the back of her neck and down her back a bit with my fingers (light caress) as I slide to her left and speak softly but confidentiality and ask with a small smile if she's having fun, doing alright, etc. Works every time. It turns them on and communicates I'm into them (if I am) and that I'm NOT Mr. Nice Guy/ Friend Boy. It says I what to f*uck her.

Basically, your friend needs to be more of a quasi-d*ick and more sexual in his interactions. The combination is a powerful weapon.

No, he does plenty of that already. Always telling stupid jokes, talking sh*t, making snide remarks. As a matter of fact, that's all he does. Very mouthy, sarcastic, salty, childish. It has no effect on the women. They treat it like a dog taking a leak on a hydrant: unpleasant, but it's a dog, so just best to ignore it.

He also tries the slick kino moves. No dates. No sex. No nothing.

Some of us were hanging out informally last week. He tried to isolate a new girl. Talking her ear off. She started yawning, then left, giving some excuse about having to get up early for work. (She left at around 6:30 lol).

 

[Dash Riprock]

Talking her ear off.

This. HUGE mistake many guys make and a real turn-off for women. Let the girl do most of the talking.

 

[lamath]

No, he does plenty of that already. Always telling stupid jokes, talking sh*t, making snide remarks. As a matter of fact, that's all he does. Very mouthy, sarcastic, salty, childish. It has no effect on the women. They treat it like a dog taking a leak on a hydrant: unpleasant, but it's a dog, so just best to ignore it.

He also tries the slick kino moves. No dates. No sex. No nothing.

Some of us were hanging out informally last week. He tried to isolate a new girl. Talking her ear off. She started yawning, then left, giving some excuse about having to get up early for work. (She left at around 6:30 lol).

Bad looking? If not probably low social awareness, bad calibration or lacking congruence.

 

[stevieLA]

This. HUGE mistake many guys make and a real turn-off for women. Let the girl do most of the talking.

He talks like 90% of the time, he always tries to dominate conversations of any kind, irl, online. I wonder why no one else tires of it.

Bad looking? If not probably low social awareness, bad calibration or lacking congruence.

He dresses well. Ugly face. Not deformed, just ugly. A bit fat. Typical fat office schlub I would say. Almost all adults in the US are fat; it's hard to describe how fat. Average fat?

 

[stevieLA]

I'm at a complete loss. I agree with all of the assessments so far, but still have no explanation for why women are so nice to him, spend a lot of time talking to him, etc. even though it's all platonic.

Logically, people shun those who are ugly, weak, dumb, rude, mean, etc., especially if these traits are immediately visible or otherwise evident. We are attracted to beautiful, intelligent, kind, mature people. On the continuum of attractive to unattractive, he is clearly far closer to the unattractive end of the continuum.

It's like we live in a topsy turvy world where the ugliest traits are considered normal, and positive attractive traits are to be avoided. I can't think of any other explanation.

OK, I will try to explain. One of the other "leaders" and planners of social events is a woman who is also quite fat, and in my opinion, ugly. The thing is, I'm reluctant to even type it out, or even think it. As a result, I try to actually be extra-polite to her. I don't want to be accused of being mean to a girl who is to put it flatly, ugly and fat. Obviously, I won't say this to anyone in person. Perhaps others are thinking the same thing and have the same motives.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

I can relate to this when I was younger, I was pure beta like that kid from wonder years, I literally embodied that growing up with no father figure. I had girls that liked me, but I was deathly shy around women and socially awkward to the point when they came around I was mute. "Why are you so quiet" they always asked, the more they did the more I got frustrated because I didn't have an answer at the time. Don't be like this, I broke out of this slowly it took many years and many setbacks I can gladly say as many times as I have failed I took 2 steps forward.

 

[MillionBillionaire]

2 words will solves all these questions you have in this post .. are you ready for it?

Sexual Threat.

He has NONE. Girls are comfortable around him, they know he is an easy rejection or he won't even try.

I have a friend who has friends that are girls... he is a pure social retard. He has gone out for more than 5 years, I never seen him land a date.

He has NO sexual threat.

I'm sure someone could elaborate better.

 

[Mike32ct]

But how does he maintain the will to keep going in the face of constant failure with zero success? It seems like he would take at least a brief time out at some point to reassess, maybe take a different route? Cut back on his investment?

It’s possible for a guy to get addicted to the social scene even if he’s not getting laid. Sounds weird, but true. (It’s like a gambler that keeps losing but stays addicted to the fantasy that his luck will turn around and he’ll recoup all his losses soon.)

Plus he’s still enjoying the attention and eye candy, even if he’s not scoring. Finally, incels have near superhuman dry spell tolerance lol.

I agree with you 100 percent. Just explaining his angle.

 

[RangerMIke]

Someone that is being TOO social comes off as trying too hard. Rather than focusing on a bunch of chicks that really are not interested in him, he should focus only on the few that do. Fifty women who have no interest is nothing 50 x 0 = 0... chicks are herd animals. They will run with the herd, if you get them together and only a few find you uninteresting, ALL of them will find you unappealing. Just about the worst thing you can do is encourage them to get together at a party and talk about how you are un-interesting.

My advice would be for him to disappear for a while and focus on self improvement and see which chicks reach out to him wondering what has happened, then focus on them.

 

[Mike32ct]

No, he does plenty of that already. Always telling stupid jokes, talking sh*t, making snide remarks. As a matter of fact, that's all he does. Very mouthy, sarcastic, salty, childish. It has no effect on the women. They treat it like a dog taking a leak on a hydrant: unpleasant, but it's a dog, so just best to ignore it.

He also tries the slick kino moves. No dates. No sex. No nothing.

Some of us were hanging out informally last week. He tried to isolate a new girl. Talking her ear off. She started yawning, then left, giving some excuse about having to get up early for work. (She left at around 6:30 lol).

Great points. Gets rid of the automatic “He’s too nice” theory.