Don’t know what to do

[flowtheory]

@flowtheory If there were ten or even twenty women outside your door right now, who wanted to seriously date you, would you still be hanging on to this one?

Yes, probably. I already have more options around each corner. There’s a lot of redeeming qualities and actions she does.

 

[LiveYourDream]

@flowtheory It seems to me that on some level, you believe you can't attract a woman better than her or maybe on some level you believe that you don't deserve a woman/relationship better than her. For the record, I and many here believe you can do a whole lot better and deserve a whole lot more!

 

[flowtheory]

@flowtheory I ask, again, is this really the way you think you deserve to be treated in a relationship?

Man, the time I struggled with how to tell a dude I was in an LTR that his condoms were too big.....the time I struggled for months trying to craft my communication when my man struggled with being a 2 pump chump.

My point is, I kept silent because I wanted to make sure what I said was going to not injure the relationship.

She's got verbal diarrhea and doesnt care if what she says hurts, and you're making excuses for her.... wow

Her stance is that she would rather tell me the pure honest truth no matter what, so we can get past it and she can be real. And honestly, it makes me trust her more, even if it is sharp. Because it’s truthful. So if she gives me a compliment, I know it’s for real rather than just boosting my ego. I know I can always believe her.

We made a pact at the start to never lie to one another. No one has lied yet. Difficult? Yes. Real? Very.
How many women can be so purely honest?

So do I think I derserve to be treated this way? Yes I think I deserve the truth, no matter what. And if it maybe takes a bit of sh!tyy weather to get the purest form of someone then I would be willing to gamble that and stake it.

 

[flowtheory]

A person could set ALL the boundaries and have ALL the woman’s respect, date for two years and STILL lose the woman in the end due to cheating or a form of betrayal. I really don’t know if there’s a 100 percent way in relationships to stay safely guarded.

I know she would NEVER cheat and we have similar values, so that counts for something.

 

[sazc]

Her stance is that she would rather tell me the pure honest truth no matter what, so we can get past it and she can be real. And honestly, it makes me trust her more, even if it is sharp. Because it’s truthful. So if she gives me a compliment, I know it’s for real rather than just boosting my ego. I know I can always believe her.

We made a pact at the start to never lie to one another. No one has lied yet. Difficult? Yes. Real? Very.
How many women can be so purely honest?

So do I think I derserve to be treated this way? Yes I think I deserve the truth, no matter what. And if it maybe takes a bit of sh!tyy weather to get the purest form of someone then I would be willing to gamble that and stake it.

Honest communication involves empathy for the target. That is lacking here.

Empathy involves ASKING the other person how they feel about it and taking that into consideration when deciding what to do. All she is attempting to do is not hide her behavior (for the most part). What she lacks is the ability to care about your feelings.

 

[lamath]

Honor thyself > Honoring others.

This is what you should follow Flow,

A good mindset to have imo is If someone you are dating is not treating you well your attraction level should diminished.Does not matter if intentional or unintentional.
Someone who could apply this without any bias would never stay in a bad relationship.

 

[LiveYourDream]

A person could set ALL the boundaries and have ALL the woman’s respect, date for two years and STILL lose the woman in the end due to cheating or a form of betrayal. I really don’t know if there’s a 100 percent way in relationships to stay safely guarded.

I know she would NEVER cheat and we have similar values, so that counts for something.

She perhaps hopes she would never cheat. She may intend to never cheat. What happens moment to moment, or somewhere in the future, can contradict all the best intentions one has ever held. LOTS of people thought they would never ever be one to cheat, until the moment came and they went with it. Don't be telling yourself that you KNOW she would NEVER cheat. You can say she does not intend to or expect to. That is as honest as it gets, IMHO.

 

[SoSuave666]

This is a fantastically entertaining thread. Can't wait to see how it ends! Oh wait...

I've seen this movie a million times. Don't look good for ya, OP.

 

[flowtheory]

If a woman had no respect for me and viewed me as some little puppy, there wouldn’t be so much investment coming from her as there is right now. Sex, dates, plans, etc. So that argument doesn’t totally hold up.

I think she went out with these two guys to ensure she still has options if it falls apart between her and I. It’s insecurity. That’s disrespectful, yes, in a part, I think she’s not intentionally doing it, but it’s also a facade of security for her to ease in to something which requires great investment. It’s coming from fear, rather than disrespect. Because anytime I assert to walk, or go silent, she freaks and panics and drops all the crap.

She perhaps hopes she would never cheat. She may intend to never cheat. What happens moment to moment, or somewhere in the future, can contradict all the best intentions one has ever held. LOTS of people thought they would never ever be one to cheat, until the moment came and they went with it. Don't be telling yourself that you KNOW she NEVER would cheat. You can say she does not intend to or expect to. That is as honest as it gets, IMHO.

I know I would NEVER EVER cheat. I know this. I would say she would be the same, given what her father did to her mother and the effect it had and still has on her.

This is a fantastically entertaining thread. Can't wait to see how it ends! Oh wait...

I've seen this movie a million times. Don't look good for ya, OP.

Maybe.. no situation is ever the same. I don’t know what will happen. I have hope though.

 

[Ranger]

I feel like I’m being put in a weird spot with the woman I’m still seeing. After a young woman from my class wanted to hangout - Chloe - we agreed that one on ones with new people isn’t the best and doesn’t have a place in a relationship. So we won’t do that anymore.

-fast forward 1 month-


Lately, she’s had some guys from her past reach out asking her to grab a coffee or lunch. She met with one last Friday for a lunch (David).
And now another guy (George) reached out to her early this week and they chatted. He asked her to get together for a coffee for Wednesday but they rescheduled for saturday morning (today)
Throughout the conversation there were lots of these faces and exclamation marks on both sides. She brought up that she was doing this and showed me the text conversation; so she was forthcoming about it. She went out with George twice before last summer but was not interested in him and they never kissed.

She has told me about both incidents prior to the meetings; she met both over online dating. Didn’t kiss or do anything with either of them but assumes they both liked or maybe still like her in some sense.
And with David she said she was aware of some attraction feelings on both her and his side last Friday at lunch. But says just friends but doesn’t know if they will meet up anytime soon again..

It’s odd to me, because it feels like they are legit dates, because why else would a guy reach out to a woman? And she’s just choosing to entertain them but pretend to be oblivious that it is one. And her telling me about them beforehand alleviates the guilt of her still maybe exploring options, even if they are older to see how she feels with other guys one on one. Because in this recent messsge she never even mentioned that she was seeing someone. So I bet George is under the impression it is a date.
Because why go spend time one on one with guys who she legit hasn’t seen since end of last summer or early October? They aren’t real friends, and she must clearly know this

Does this not seem sketch? She assured me she doesn’t want anything romantically with anyone else but me in a text last night. But also has stated she has her ‘reservations’ about her and I in previous talks, which is fine because we’ve only been exclusive for 2 months. But I just don’t get why take the route of going one on ones with guys from her past. When I know damn well she would be irate if the situation were reversed.

I’m trying to not be controlling, understanding and all of that which is needed in relationships, but this feels nauseating and disrespectful. Because if she’s doing it because she’s unsure of me and her, and one of those guys is on point in one of these get togethers it simply puts more doubt in her mind. It’s like a form of sabotage

She sent me this message last night without any promoting. So clearly I believe she knows that what she’s doing is a game..
“I just want to say, because maybe I would want to be reassured also, that I’m not going on a date tomorrow. I am seeing a sweet friend, whom I care about as a friend. I am not keeping options open, nor do I want to date anyone else at present. I have robust swatting away capabilities. I hope that works for you.”

Thoughts?

So you really want to believe her right? What happened to “no one on ones”?

She’s getting her attention and strokes. Just realize that this rule only applies to you. Tell her you are going to see Chloe. After all...it’s just coffee.

Do you not see the standard you are held to isn’t the same for her? This will not change. The precedence has been set.

It doesn’t matter if she is on the up and up. This isn’t about her. You are obviously not ok with this. So she is allowed to have fall back guys if something goes off the rails?
What about your fall back?

This is the imperative in action. “He’s only a friend!”, “Why are so insecure?”, “I’m not allowed to have friends?”, “He’s just a friend.”, “What’s wrong with guys? They are so jealous.”

Believe me. These are socially accepted AND you can be admonished for standing in the way of her sexual antics and availability to other men, one on one.

Invert it...why have the rule of no “one on ones”?
What would happen if you had them too?
Trust me. She knows what would happen. LMAO

EVERY man I personally know has run into this.
You already know you can’t bring it up without getting egg on your face. Lol
You will be made the evil wrong guy. The weak knees little insecure guy. That’s why you don’t bring it up. Shamed into pvssyhood you are.

 

[flowtheory]

So you really want to believe her right? What happened to “no one on ones”?

She’s getting her attention and strokes. Just realize that this rule only applies to you. Tell her you are going to see Chloe. After all...it’s just coffee.

Do you not see the standard you are held to isn’t the same for her? This will not change. The precedence has been set.

It doesn’t matter if she is on the up and up. This isn’t about her. You are obviously not ok with this. So she is allowed to have fall back guys if something goes off the rails?
What about your fall back?

This is the imperative in action. “He’s only a friend!”, “Why are so insecure?”, “I’m not allowed to have friends?”, “He’s just a friend.”, “What’s wrong with guys? They are so jealous.”

Believe me. These are socially accepted AND you can be admonished for standing in the way of her sexual antics and availability to other men, one on one.

Invert it...why have the rule of no “one on ones”?
What would happen if you had them too?
Trust me. She knows what would happen. LMAO

EVERY man I personally know has run into this.
You already know you can’t bring it up without getting egg on your face. Lol
You will be made the evil wrong guy. The weak knees little insecure guy. That’s why you don’t bring it up. Shamed into pvssyhood you are.

No one on ones with new people. I guess.

Yes she’s hypocritical. You’re completely right with all of this. It’s like an unavoidable double standard.

 

[LiveYourDream]

No one on ones with new people. I guess.

Yes she’s hypocritical. You’re completely right with all of this. It’s like an unavoidable double standard.

You are the one that allows it to be that.

 

[flowtheory]

You are the one that allows it to be that.

Well I did tell her if she’s going to do one on ones with people from her past that are men, I’m going to be open to it also.

 

[Ranger]

No one on ones with new people. I guess.

Yes she’s hypocritical. You’re completely right with all of this. It’s like an unavoidable double standard.

So it’s only new people? LMAO
So old fuks are ok. Just not new potential fuks.

Trust me when I tell you this. There isn’t a man with any time of relationship experience that hasn’t experienced this. This is a standard operating default. It’s automatic.

When men question it the whole world shames the fuk out of him. She tells all her girlfriends, exes, EVERYONE.

It’s feels like being driven from the tribe to die in the wilderness for your audacity to even bring it up.

Shame on you...you non-conforming Male. Here, let me rub that pvssy in your face because you ain’t getting any more, you mongrel. LMAO

NOT laughing at you brother. Just the total absurdity of any of it. There are dozens if not uncountable little things like this that men don’t even realize are being used against them due to the imperative.

Turn yourself into a better man and you won’t have to worry about these things anymore. She wouldn’t fukking dare try it.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Well I did tell her if she’s going to do one on ones with people from her past that are men, I’m going to be open to it also.

You responded in a passive way. You didn't take away exclusivity.
Your words mean nothing. Your actions say everything.
Your ACTIONS say everything is just fine.

 

[flowtheory]

So it’s only new people? LMAO
So old fuks are ok. Just not new potential fuks.

Trust me when I tell you this. There isn’t a man with any time of relationship experience that hasn’t experienced this. This is a standard operating default. It’s automatic.

When men question it the whole world shames the fuk out of him. She tells all her girlfriends, exes, EVERYONE.

It’s feels like being driven from the tribe to die in the wilderness for your audacity to even bring it up.

Shame on you...you non-conforming Male. Here, let me rub that pvssy in your face because you ain’t getting any more, you mongrel. LMAO

NOT laughing at you brother. Just the total absurdity of any of it. There are dozens if not uncountable little things like this that men don’t even realize are being used against them due to the imperative.

It’s true.

I don’t believe anything is lost in what her and I have or there’s mass disrespect. It’s just her doing what is natural, I guess. And it would be my job now to communicate that it’s not at all tolerable if we expect to have any future.

One thing is that she is just threatened that me and my ex are friends and see each other often. So this intensifies whatever is her natural imperative.

And the older guys she’s met up with, she has denied them already so she says it would only ever be friends even if her and I weren’t together.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Maybe you didn't or don't take away exclusivity because you know/believe she would likely easily be with other men, rather than stay loyal to you, without exclusivity.

 

[flowtheory]

You responded in a passive way. You didn't take away exclusivity.
Your words mean nothing. Your actions say everything.
Your ACTIONS say everything is just fine.

Because I won’t threaten the relationship if it’s a tactic. If I take away exclusivity it’s forever gone. Even for her she’s agreed she won’t take any steps back. I agree.
I simply told her how I felt her going out one on one with those types of guys who she’s been on dates with. “I feel naesous and anxious that this is happening and it’s not what I want in a relationship”. I expressed how I felt. That’s all I can do. No blame. No drama.
If she chooses to keep meeting up with older people then I would strike and I would do so with all intentions of folding up shop. I never threaten a relationship unless I have full intention of pulling the plug. I give fair warning and let their receptiveness or lack of dictate.

I would maybe walk out of the apartment mid discussion if she did something I didn’t approve of though.

 

[LiveYourDream]

A woman who is truly into you would stay loyal to you, and work hard to regain your respect, your time and attention, and ultimately to regain exclusivity.

 

[flowtheory]

Maybe you didn't or don't take away exclusivity because you know/believe she would likely easily be with other men, rather than stay loyal to you, without exclusivity.

I don’t think she would easily be with other men at all. She’s not easy or anything like that. She’s very choosy and has been single for very enxtebded periods of time. She’s been on dates, yes, but friendzones just about every guy. Extremely picky. Only ever done oral with one guy and only been in two relationships. Lost virginity at 20.