Women who play hard to get: walk away or play ball a little bit?

[Dash Riprock]

I see mixed opinions on this forum. Some guys on here say always give S&D if she plays hard to get or walk away. These guys seem to be in the majority.

Then I see others say what I was taught through guru's, basically that highly attractive women get hit on all the time and just as David DeAngelo and others say, they will test you to see if you really are who you say you are or give up at the first sign of resistance, either because you are really weak pretending to be strong, or because they want to make sure you are not just interested in a one night stand. It's the economics of sex. You produce millions of sperm. She has an egg. She's guarded, you're loose...

I like what David D says about this. That women test you to see if you are really interested or not as well as for a variety of other reasons, especially if you are a high value guy and she is very attractive and that you shouldn't give up too easily. That usually if they are really not interested they give more signs that indicate that, whereas whey they are playing hard to get it's always two steps forward, one step back. She give you some hope, moves things forward, then adds a little doubt back. Then you move forward again, and repeat the cycle, if you can read the hints she leaves you accurately (usually there is some sign, the subtext of something she says, such as I can't hang out THIS weekend....as if she can hang out another weekend...if you ask her out again) etc.

So this is the area of dating that I REALLY struggle with. I have tried various techniques, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, depending on the girl. I've tried being direct and making them jealous and it working, then I've also had that backfire on me (like it did recently).

So what's a guy to do? What works on most women, the majority of the time?

Yeah, this one can be a slippery slope. Kind of like debating what is the best offensive and defensive scheme in pro and college football. Many different theories and varieties and all are effective vs certain opponents and in certain circumstances, but nothing always works 100% of the time against every opponent.

So let's talk middle of the bell shaped curve on what USUALLY works MOST of the time, but with exceptions:

1-You're better off pursuing (but never chasing). Pursuing is inviting out on a date and having a plan and clearly communicating what you'll be doing. You ask once, maybe twice. If she doesn't respond--OUT, if she responds and says she's busy without a counter--MAYBE try one more time in a week, if she responds YES or a NO but with a counter date, ok to PURSUE further.

2-Always ask yourself: How much of my key criteria does she meet for ME? You are the prize. And don't put such a high emphasis on looks only. I've found, another correlation if you will, the best looking women have the shi*ttiest personalities--many reasons for this but very true. Sure looks count, but there are many other qualities to look for, too. If she scores high on your scale in all/most areas, cut her a bit more slack on your pursuing, but DON'T CHASE (too many messages, taking too many of her flakes or no's, over complimenting her, acting like a wuss with no options).

3-Women like (**love**) strong, confident MEN. And they're in short supply. Make sure you have your life together and have something to offer before plunging into dating. She has certain DNA wiring that has been in place for tens of thousands of years. Social norms or technology trends will not un-wire her or change her DNA programming on what she's attracted to--at least for another 100,000 years or so.

4-Interested women will make it EASY for you to ask them out or continue to see them. MYTH: THEY WON'T ALWAYS CHASE YOU IF INTERESTED. This is the biggest fallacy I want to dispel on SS. If I could graph this: the hotter the woman (line moving up) the LESS likely they are to chase you (line moving down). It's simple supply vs demand and economics. She's rich in prospects and barraged with offers so why should she over pursue you? She will casually, softly, covertly let you know she's interested. Get good at reading the signs as they are usually quite subtle.

5-Women do like mystery. Disappearing for awhile can pique interest, so waiting to ask her out again and always remaining busy with your life outside of dating and "her" is exponentially better than coming across too needy, too available, and too eager. Control yourself! You shouldn't have to fake this--you should actually be busy of your own volition.

6- Be unpredictable and "hard to figure out." Don't be plain, boring guy. Be creative and imaginative on date ideas. Tell good stories. Err on the side of being outgoing and charismatic rather than buttoned up, silent, and robotic. If you know the NFL, be Brett Favre, not Joe Flacco. Have an opinion and purposely disagree with her. Flip her sh*it, then be nice-nice. Women want to have FUN. Is boring, reserved guy fun? F*uck no! Good news is 80%+ of all guys are boring as f*uck. This can give you a huge edge. Vary your date ideas (romantic vs adventure vs activity vs event vs staying in, etc.). Vary how you communicate. Ping her a few days in a row, then go silent for awhile. Come on hard, slam on the brakes. Again. you should start to develop this attribute so it's natural for you.

I'm sure there's a few more, but less IS more in my book, so these tips will get you started.

Good luck.

~Dash
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[lamath]

I just updated my previous post to answer this question. You don’t waste time on women who play hard to get. If she desires you, she will make it easy, otherwise close the rapport.

You ask for the date, anything other than a yes or counter-offer is your cue to move on. The only exceptions here are extenuating circumstances, for example, if she had an emergency, you had previously insulted her and she is angry/emotional, or perhaps she was recently burned and cautious. If unsure whether extenuating circumstances apply, leave her with,” I see you have much on your plate. Reach out when you have free time to get together.”

So in usual interaction the Man need to be the one engaging the women for date and stuff until sex.

In the past before 12y ltr things for me have always been going smoothly probably because High IL never had to think long about what i should do.

Hoping for the same in the near future but planing for the worst.

 

[guru1000]

there's some supplication here on your part. Recently burned and cautious? You insulted her and she's angry emotional?

Why do you believe a woman when she say she is burned? Why do you insult a woman instead of playfully neg her? If she got you emotional enough to insult her you are in a feminine state.

The only exception I make is emergencies.

Differing personalities.

I carry a strong degree of sarcasm in my tone which often comes across as insulting, belittling or even disrespectful at times. This is a nuance selective to my personality that I am aware of.

You also have certain nuances that are brought to your attention too that are unfitting. Whether or not you heed these nuances will only enable you to navigate your social interactions better.

As to her being burned and cautious: if you’re not on the other end of the spectrum to understand how you destroy some of these women’s psyche by pumping and dismissing them, then you will not likely understand that their insecurity runs deep. And generally, the hotter the girl, the greater her ego, and thus the greater insecurity wielded when she gets burned. You have to understand how the woman’s ego works to totally Subjugate her. And it’s not pounding your chest like King Kong that will get you there. It’s simply social awareness.

 

[wifehunter]

How far should a man trying to get a women thats playing hard to get go?

There a fine line between trying to get a women or being desperate to get a women. Sometime can be hard to calibrate.

A guy, who is a catch, should not be concerned with such trifling matters. The guy, who is a catch, is the one to be gotten.

May the best woman win.

 

[SoSuave666]

Differing personalities.

I carry a strong degree of sarcasm in my tone which often comes across as insulting, belittling or even disrespectful at times. This is a nuance selective to my personality that I am aware of.

You also have certain nuances that are brought to your attention too that are unfitting. Whether or not you heed these nuances will only enable you to navigate your social interactions better.

As to her being burned and cautious: if you’re not on the other end of the spectrum to understand how you destroy some of these women’s psyche by pumping and dismissing them, then you will not likely understand that their insecurity runs deep. And generally, the hotter the girl, the greater her ego, and thus the greater insecurity wielded when she gets burned. You have to understand how the woman’s ego works to totally Subjugate her. And it’s not pounding your chest like King Kong that will get you there. It’s simply social awareness.

If you are the one who cause the "burn" with a woman you are still never to apologize or supplicate. I completely understand the psyche of attrative 9/10. Their "burn" can simply be some dude not responding to a text within 5 minutes. I am the catch, they are the whatever. If they aren't willing to play my type of ball, kick rocks.

 

[Serenity]

I see mixed opinions on this forum. Some guys on here say always give S&D if she plays hard to get or walk away. These guys seem to be in the majority.

Then I see others say what I was taught through guru's, basically that highly attractive women get hit on all the time and just as David DeAngelo and others say, they will test you to see if you really are who you say you are or give up at the first sign of resistance, either because you are really weak pretending to be strong, or because they want to make sure you are not just interested in a one night stand. It's the economics of sex. You produce millions of sperm. She has an egg. She's guarded, you're loose...

I like what David D says about this. That women test you to see if you are really interested or not as well as for a variety of other reasons, especially if you are a high value guy and she is very attractive and that you shouldn't give up too easily. That usually if they are really not interested they give more signs that indicate that, whereas whey they are playing hard to get it's always two steps forward, one step back. She give you some hope, moves things forward, then adds a little doubt back. Then you move forward again, and repeat the cycle, if you can read the hints she leaves you accurately (usually there is some sign, the subtext of something she says, such as I can't hang out THIS weekend....as if she can hang out another weekend...if you ask her out again) etc.

So this is the area of dating that I REALLY struggle with. I have tried various techniques, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, depending on the girl. I've tried being direct and making them jealous and it working, then I've also had that backfire on me (like it did recently).

So what's a guy to do? What works on most women, the majority of the time?

I'd say it depends. If you're not having a good time playing that kind of game then it's better to just walk away and that's fine. If you find it amusing I don't see why not, just don't attach because then it won't be fun as there's a high risk it leads into nothing. Let go of hope, let go of expectation.

I also want to point out that you can play along without necessarily chasing, but again you must let go of any hope and expect nothing. Anything she says to make herself hard to get you must remain unaffected by. So don't play along in the sense you're predictable, as in making moves. Just blow her off, chuckle a bit and move on as if she has nowhere near the level of attraction she thinks she has. Some mild negging isn't off the table either, throw an insult show how much it amuses you to do so. I mean, you're probably not going to get her anyways, so might as well be as mean as she is. It won't always work, but when it does it's like flipping a light switch, you have then turned the tables.

I first didn't believe this would ever work, until I accidentally did it and the huge contrast was almost bizarre to witness. One moment they'd be a$$holes, I'm not having it and shortly after they'd almost cling to me and be all nice to me. As mentioned this discovery was not intentional for me. I was at a party, there was a couple of girls there I didn't give a sh!t about, but they were disrespectful. Since I didn't care I had zero reason to impress them in any way, so I looked at them like they were stupid, assertively told them to fvck off and proceeded to ignore them. A few minutes later they started apologizing and were all over me, just like a beta would to a woman. So I find this type of challenge entertaining, because they can't win it. It's in fact super quick and easy to shut that sort of game from them down.

I'd also like to add that women don't necessarily test to filter away the guys who just want a one night stand. It's a myth that most women want relationship, many are open to one night stands, just not with anyone and that's why they test.

 

[Trump]

As to her being burned and cautious: if you’re not on the other end of the spectrum to understand how you destroy some of these women’s psyche by pumping and dismissing them, then you will not likely understand that their insecurity runs deep. And generally, the hotter the girl, the greater her ego, and thus the greater insecurity wielded when she gets burned. You have to understand how the woman’s ego works to totally Subjugate her. And it’s not pounding your chest like King Kong that will get you there. It’s simply social awareness.

If she has been burned and has to be cautious, isn’t that playing into her frame?

I’m not a player by any means, but I think anytime a woman’s brings up a past/current situation that prevents her to not proceed on your terms, you’re screwed.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Women don’t play hard to get. They’re just not that into you.

 

[Trump]

If you are the one who cause the "burn" with a woman you are still never to apologize or supplicate. I completely understand the psyche of attrative 9/10. Their "burn" can simply be some dude not responding to a text within 5 minutes. I am the catch, they are the whatever. If they aren't willing to play my type of ball, kick rocks.

Nice post.

 

[lamath]

imo you wont lose frame if

Dont engage her on her terms.

If she try and make it about her issue you leave it at that, ell her to reach if she ever get over it.

 

[guru1000]

I completely understand the psyche of attrative 9/10. Their "burn" can simply be some dude not responding to a text within 5 minutes. I am the catch, they are the whatever. If they aren't willing to play my type of ball, kick rocks.

Different context.

You’re coming from a frame where she is not threatened by your value. Otherwise you would know exactly what I was referring to without this clarification.

Im going to share a little secret from the other side and disspell a Manosphere myth in the process: If you are a high value guy who has established little
rapport with her, you are going to wear a black eye for the pump and dump (P & D) guy quite often before sex, as high value men have excessive options and often don’t stay after the dirty deed—the very act (of your dumping) which she is trying to prevent. As a high value guy, you will need to navigate her trust accordingly and be aware of this nuance to surrender resistance especially from those women whom have been P&Ded.

My previous comment regarding being aware of her burn deals strictly with awareness of this concept to navigate the interaction accordingly so she can surrender that fear. If she’s threatened by your value and you don’t want to navigate, that’s fine, then don’t get laid and move on which is rather foolish as you had already invested your time and attention into the rapport with zero benefit other than a red pill congratulations to pat your back with.

It’s about social awareness and effectiveness.

she has been burned and has to be cautious, isn’t that playing into her frame?

If she is cautious not to be pumped and dumped, and you are aware of this, it has nothing to do with frame. It has everything to do with that you are now aware lol

I’m not a player by any means, but I think anytime a woman’s brings up a past/current situation that prevents her to not proceed on your terms, you’re screwed.

Nothing was stated that she wouldn’t proceed with your terms. Rather what was stated that if she is burned and you are a threat to burn her again, you best consider that when scheduling logistics with her and how to direct the interaction. In other words, don’t tell her to come over for some fun as a high value guy, if you are aware she just got pumped and tossed. Instead, invite her out, get her comfortable, and then ...

Do you guys go out and get laid that I need to actually spell out these trivialities? Lol. Use your head, be smart.

 

[SoSuave666]

Different context.

You’re coming from a frame where she is not threatened by your value. Otherwise you would know exactly what I was referring to without this clarification.

Im going to share a little secret from the other side and disspell a Manosphere myth in the process: If you are a high value guy who has established little
rapport with her, you are going to wear a black eye for the pump and dump (P & D) guy quite often before sex, as high value men have excessive options and often don’t stay after the dirty deed—the very act (of your dumping) which she is trying to prevent. As a high value guy, you will need to navigate her trust accordingly and be aware of this nuance to surrender resistance especially from those women whom have been P&Ded.

My previous comment regarding being aware of her burn deals strictly with awareness of this concept to navigate the interaction accordingly so she can surrender that fear. If she’s threatened by your value and you don’t want to navigate, that’s fine, then don’t get laid and move on which is rather foolish as you had already invested your time and attention into the rapport with zero benefit other than a red pill congratulations to pat your back with.

It’s about social awareness and effectiveness.


If she is cautious not to be pumped and dumped, and you are aware of this, it has nothing to do with frame. It has everything to do with that you are now aware lol


Nothing was stated that she wouldn’t proceed with your terms. Rather what was stated that if she is burned and you are a threat to burn her again, you best consider that when scheduling logistics with her and how to direct the interaction. In other words, don’t tell her to come over for some fun as a high value guy, if you are aware she just got pumped and tossed. Instead, invite her out, get her comfortable, and then ...

Do you guys go out and get laid that I need to actually spell out these trivialities? Lol. Use your head, be smart.

So many contradictions in this post it makes me question your history.

 

[guru1000]

So many contradictions in this post it makes me question your history.

See what I mean about my sarcasm being insulting Not my intention brother.

But what I would like you and others to extract from this is that a girl’s whimsicality initially is not always due to low interest but rather issues that deal with her and not you. Sometimes your presence alone can incite insecurities in her. I get this a lot actually, hence why I had coined the term “beta throws,” which are nuggets you feed her to mitigate that resistance due to her miscategorizing your intent.

 

[Epicwinguy]

You can reach out once and a while, but she should be chasing you. She must enter your frame, not vice-versa.

How do you avoid entering her frame in the initial approach?

 

[wifehunter]

How do you avoid entering her frame in the initial approach?

It's called 'not giving a fukk'.