Help an AFC: Safe Boundaries For Seeking Rejection

[Protonym]

I'm an AFC and don't want to be. Upbringing was "If you want the girl- open doors for her, keep a respectful distance, don't 'lust' after her, (etc...), and she will keep going out with you until you fall in love and live happily ever after." These are the following problems I suspect I need to fix: I'm approval-seeking, too-agreeable, robotically obedient, unsexual in my approach/behavior, and afraid of creating trouble by 'trying harder.' To be clear: I do like myself and I am happy, but this part of my life is pretty lousy *shrug.* I'm making progress, but it is slow. I'm 26, plenty attractive, but I've only had sex once because even when girls are interested at first, I can't keep them interested, and I don't know how to move her from the bar stool to the bedroom.

I want to go out and seek rejection to help me graduate from these issues, but I need some guidance first:

What are the best ways to...
...Seek rejection safely/sanely?

Will seeking rejection actually even help me...
...Become more comfortable with acting sexual?
...Care less about 'succeeding' with any specific girl?
...Practice not getting too attached/hopeful too quickly?

How can I safely...
...Show that I am sexual and interested without coming across as creepy?
...Make physical contact without the girl wanting to grab a bouncer?
...Ask a girl if she wants to go someplace private?
...Ask a girl if she wants to have sex?
...Know to stop trying because it isn't going to happen?

And finally: What should I read/watch/practice, based on what you just read?

 

[flowtheory]

First start by reading Read Rollo Tomassi’s The Rational Male. Then go through the postings of the DJ bible. And during all this watch videos by Alpha Male Stategies. Lurk on this forum and give your perspective on posts; which will inevitably be challenged and you’ll learn.

It’s sinply about unlearning old ways right now for you. Give it time. Be patient and persistent. Road to being your own version of Alpha isn’t an over night thing.

 

[ohrein]

AFC is a mental state and a result of social conditioning. The primary focus should be adjusting the way you think about things. Women do like romantic gestures, but they like them from guys they are sexually attracted to, and they like them coming from a place of strength, not from a guy trying to "win" them. I think the first step is to stop thinking of women as a target to "win" and start thinking that women need to prove themselves worthy of you. Why should you invest time into this woman? What does she add to your life? Sex is such a low bar to aim for and instantly gives the woman all the power. You want her to want to fvck you, not the other way around!

What are the best ways to...
...Seek rejection safely/sanely?

Exposure. But more importantly, thought processes. You think of rejection as "unsafe" but it's not. It's completely normal.

Will seeking rejection actually even help me...
...Become more comfortable with acting sexual?
...Care less about 'succeeding' with any specific girl?
...Practice not getting too attached/hopeful too quickly?

Yes. Rejection can be fun if you're doing it right. I'm someone who likes to push boundaries and I've been rejected by women for all sorts of funny stuff. Sexist jokes, commenting on how beautiful another woman was, talking about nerdy stuff, etc. Who cares? Be authentic. If a woman doesn't want you, that's fine.

How can I safely...
...Show that I am sexual and interested without coming across as creepy?
...Make physical contact without the girl wanting to grab a bouncer?
...Ask a girl if she wants to go someplace private?
...Ask a girl if she wants to have sex?
...Know to stop trying because it isn't going to happen?

A "creepy" guy is just a guy who she's not attracted to. So if you've met a woman and you think she's worth your time, you need to then switch to watching her reactions to things. You should have at least some indication she's attracted to you before you start getting more sexual. Imagine you're feeling tired and can't be bothered having sex. Now imagine someone coming up and pressuring you for sex. That's women constantly. Just thirsty guy after thirsty guy. Don't be that guy. Be the cool guy who's laid back, mysterious, who knows she's interested in him sexually but is still only giving her a taste of him. You touch her arm briefly and she gets goose bumps and you go back to conversation. This is the type of sexual but not desperate for sex you want to be. I still do this with my girlfriend. Foreplay begins after sex ends.

So, learn about indicators of interest, especially body language. Start by just being more observant. Watch women you're interacting with, watch women interacting with other guys, watch couples together. There are so many subtle but obvious clues. Make sure you see these actions in women you're interested in before making moves and you'll never be that creepy guy nor will you have to fear rejection because you've already seen her reciprocate physical interest. I can tell with reasonable accuracy within a few minutes if a woman is attracted to me. I can also spot if a woman changes her attitude to either yes or no mid way through. Body language is 90% of communication, start paying attention to it and learning it.

 

[Protonym]

Thanks FlawTheory, I'll take a look at those.

Thanks Ohrein, that helps a lot. Fortunately, I'm good at reading body language, so I've got a good radar for who is worth my time. Unfortunately, until recently I never considered physical touch or sexy language as good ways to approach, so I guess I'm wondering what is socially acceptable and what isn't. I'm sure the boundaries are vastly different for each girl, but are there any good guidelines?

 

[ohrein]

I'm sure the boundaries are vastly different for each girl, but are there any good guidelines?

No. It's an art not a science. For beginners I recommend holding her hand. This is the easiest and least invasive way to gauge physical interest, although it is also not a guarantee. If you can play with a girls hand and she is reciprocating touch, squeezing your hand, rubbing a finger or thumb on your hand, you're almost always safe to continue escalating as appropriate. If she seems a little awkward or not receptive then you're somewhere in between. If she pulls away then you're definitely wasting your time.

But there have been times where I've just gone for kiss closes because I can see she's attracted to me. I've never been rejected for a kiss since learning game. I have a few awkward stories before that though. Back when I thought just hanging out with a girl and talking then taking her home and trying to kiss her was how to get laid. Hahaha.

 

[GrowingPains]

I'm working on this too. You gotta get comfortable with not caring how she responds. You make your move because you want to. She responds how she does. If she likes it, great. Youve got something on your hands and can keep escalating. If she doesn't like it, great, you can next her and stop wasting your time. Remember this phase isn't about you being perfect. It's about you failing and learning from it so you can be successful later. It's purely about you at this point. If you approach someone, it's for you. And if you get shot down.. who cares? Youre better for it.

You can use your environment to your advantage. For example:

I like to ice skate. Most girls can't. They see me skating and think I'm good. So then I grab their hands and skate backwards while pulling them faster. Good opportunity to look in each other's eyes too. Activity dates lend themselves to this. I drive stick, so I ask if she knows how to drive stick. Usually they don't. Tell her she's gonna shift for me, she's not really because I put my hand over hers and do the pedal work. But they love it, freaks em out a little bit, they laugh and all the while our hands are touching. It doesn't always have to be this creative. Start with touching your friends. Touch is natural as long as it isn't creepy. People like to be touched, it releases some chemicals blah blah. Anyways, just try it man. As long as you don't grope them or something weird like that you should be fine. Touch hands, legs and arms. Their reaction should tell you how it was perceived. This is called Kino, there's lots of articles on it on here.

Definitely read Rollo's book.

 

[Spaz]

Naughty Ninja u r back !

I heard ur real name is Joey

 

[Protonym]

I got my frist rejection tonight. I could tell things were going downhill, so when I found out she'd secretly called an Uber... I just came out and asked if she was hoping I would go home with her (even though I knew she wasn't). You can imagine how that went. But it's still a step in the right direction.

Thank you GrowingPains (and actual growing pains, lol). That is very useful. I'm going to start looking up these videos and articles and terms that you are listing. Even knowing the basic terminology is a huge step forward.

 

[flowtheory]

Thanks FlawTheory, I'll take a look at those.

Thanks Ohrein, that helps a lot. Fortunately, I'm good at reading body language, so I've got a good radar for who is worth my time. Unfortunately, until recently I never considered physical touch or sexy language as good ways to approach, so I guess I'm wondering what is socially acceptable and what isn't. I'm sure the boundaries are vastly different for each girl, but are there any good guidelines?

Longtail.