In real life betas do win

zekko

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Hmm, ok then. Can't deal in absolutes. You seem to lean more in the direction that a lot can be done to safeguard oneself, but there's a small chance to be unlucky in spite of it.
I wouldn't sure it's even a small chance, not sure what the actual percentage might be. I mean if it was that simple, then it wouldn't be necessary to warn guys about the risk of marriage so much. You could just say "Be alpha, screen well, and go get married". I'm sure most guys think that they will beat the odds, that what they are doing is different. But marriage is still a risk, I don't care who you are.

It works out for some guys, but I don't think there's a way to guarantee you will be one of them. You can do what you can to improve your odds, but the risk will always be there. I don't believe in the attitude "I'm so alpha, therefore no woman would ever divorce me".
 

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Bloody hell.. from the forumers posts here i already feels like the end of the world, come one there plenty of fish in the water, dont marry thou.. Hahaha
 
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Von

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I wouldn't sure it's even a small chance, not sure what the actual percentage might be. I mean if it was that simple, then it wouldn't be necessary to warn guys about the risk of marriage so much. You could just say "Be alpha, screen well, and go get married". I'm sure most guys think that they will beat the odds, that what they are doing is different. But marriage is still a risk, I don't care who you are.

It works out for some guys, but I don't think there's a way to guarantee you will be one of them. You can do what you can to improve your odds, but the risk will always be there. I don't believe in the attitude "I'm so alpha, therefore no woman would ever divorce me".
Marriage is a risk, LTR is a risk....

In Finance, risk is rewarded with higher returns.

Heck, i could say being Single and Alone is a risk (you pay more tax, have less access to fiscal stratégies, have to handle alone everything, spending are all yours etc)... But if you do well (save, not spend much etc..), you might be " highly rewarded"

I'll challenge the beta/alpha notions here.

First of all: Beta and Alpha are characteristic beyond "single/married"

Knowing that... I can't help but feel Alpha as a guy in a LTR when i go in public/social fonction/networking/friends because i am one of the only human (guy and girl incluses) that's in a LTR.

Everyone comes around us like we some glowing light... The other ltr/married come to share and exchange, the singles to know how we did it (and meet) and talk about their goals.

Society considèrs Alone people to be "losers" .

A Loser can be Alpha (millionnaire-model dating-fit) or a beta (nothing going for him).

Society value people in "LTR and Marriage" ... Heck we even have financial advantage!

Since millenials are the "most lonely" génération.. Being in a LTR/Marriage might become "hero" or "loser" status in a few generation.

Remember, older générations /like OP mentionned... If you weren't married by 20 years old, people thought you were "mentally ill/loser"

Mentalities are changing.. like OP here said that a Man having a happy wife is Beta!

In my opinion, the article showed an ALPHA.

People in LTR/Marriage are ALPHA.

Wikipedia on Alpha: "Alpha animals usually gain preferential access to food and other desirable items or activities, though the extent of this varies widely between species. Male or female alphas may gain preferential access to sex or mates; in some species, only alphas or an alpha pair reproduce - Alphas may achieve their status by superior physical strength and aggression, or through social efforts and building alliances within the group. The individual with alpha status sometimes changes, often through a fight between the dominant and a subordinate animal. These fights are often to the death, depending on the animal."

So why the Article show an Alpha: The male made an happy wife, he supported her, he stayed solid to his wife, she made an article about him, he stick 40 years with his wife (women are insane, imagine 40 years with one), he had the capacité to reproduce because he united with a Woman, the wife support by food and sex the husband.

Alpha is being dominant, the husband is being dominant from what i am reading. He's dominating her HEART, so she will be submissive to him.

I am focusing only on the article: maybe he didnt have a great job, maybe she cheated or he cheated, they had up and downs, maybe no kids.

Who cares! At the end of the day, a SoSuave Member made a Thread from this article about how a wife is in love with her Husband through HIS ACTIONS.

That's Alpha.

OP is Beta cause he talks about other peoples ;) (average mind like Eleanor Roosevelt would say in her quote: "great mind talks ideas" "average mind talks people" )

In conclusion: LTR/Marriage can go up and downs, we are make mistake, keeping a LTR/Marriage requires another Game set entirely and to always be strong in frame.

Society value people in LTR (millenials and up might change that) but see how people judge "the singles ones in their 40+ years" ).

LTR/Marriage can be from the realm of the Alpha.

Again, the concept of the whiteknight and the beta male provider...that's what was "alpha" back before 1960's...

People mentality are often "late to the events" (like in the stock market... People all want to jump and buy when its at the top and they want to sell at the low.. Which is the worst thing to do)....

WhiteKnight and provider was everything a woman sought back in the days.

From my Wikipedia définition of Alpha, an Alpha: Provide, Support, Has ressources he uses to have social power and sex.

In the past: A knight used to be an elite soldier of noble descend.

A Wife use to be in the home and make babies (house wife) and had all the control of the finances (budget from her man income) and the home arrangement.

In our modern world: Everyone is equal.

So to reproduce, you need more Alphaness especially when the female consider themselve "traditional male".

LTR are a mix of feelings and having a common goal/vision..a projet (lasting one). Its defining those that helps a couple work and thrive.

From expérience, even including in my own LTR... We care, we feel but it's also about making something together (she wants to be a mother, i want to make a familly and be stable in my love life while focusing on my work while she take care of the home etc...)... All couples who Respect, Care and are clear with each others intentions tend to last (as long these intentions remains and both are on the same page looking in the same directions.

According to statistics: People who marry at 30+ in our 2000's générations tend to stick together longer :p

Back in the days 1960+ and below... At 18 you were an adult with your life set for you (you knew your rôle and destiny).

Today, if you are "an adult" at 35 years old you made it!... People grow up shower now (people with university degrees start their life around 30), Male are starting later in life "their alpha rôle" ... While women are biologically still driven to have kids before hitting the wall while "jungling with the modern éducation system of late-bloomers" and "low-T male" with a society telling them "to be man"
 
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zekko

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Wikipedia on Alpha: "Alpha animals usually gain preferential access to food and other desirable items or activities, though the extent of this varies widely between species. Male or female alphas may gain preferential access to sex or mates; in some species, only alphas or an alpha pair reproduce - Alphas may achieve their status by superior physical strength and aggression, or through social efforts and building alliances within the group. The individual with alpha status sometimes changes, often through a fight between the dominant and a subordinate animal. These fights are often to the death, depending on the animal."
I have always said that Alpha is a position, not an attitude as the PUAs claim. Anyone can say they have an alpha mentality, but then it just becomes subjective. The last two sentences in the quote above show that Alpha is a position, and whoever occupies that position can be challenged or knocked off.

Also, in science, the alpha almost always has access to a large amount of resources, making them ideal for a Provider role. But that doesn't fit the PUA narrative, so they like to paint providing and having resources as beta. This shows how they like to cherry pick information to suit their agenda.

In any case, I was pointing out that there is risk in getting marriage. What someone does with that information is up to them. As you say, often great rewards can be gained from taking great risks. But know the risks before getting involved.
 

Von

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I have always said that Alpha is a position, not an attitude as the PUAs claim. Anyone can say they have an alpha mentality, but then it just becomes subjective. The last two sentences in the quote above show that Alpha is a position, and whoever occupies that position can be challenged or knocked off.

Also, in science, the alpha almost always has access to a large amount of resources, making them ideal for a Provider role. But that doesn't fit the PUA narrative, so they like to paint providing and having resources as beta. This shows how they like to cherry pick information to suit their agenda.

In any case, I was pointing out that there is risk in getting marriage. What someone does with that information is up to them. As you say, often great rewards can be gained from taking great risks. But know the risks before getting involved.
Yes, i agree with you and thanks for clarifying it.

Anything in life, including marriage includes Risk.

Everything worth while has Risk!

Are you going blindly and emotionally driven (ignorant) ? Or you are going rationaly (knowing)?

This make a big différence in my opinions.

It's why people breakup after 2 years. We all heard the saying "breakup are more likely at 2,5,7,11, etc years together".

After 2 years, people " lust/butterfly/honeymoon" dissapear and they find out "they have no reasons to stick in the LTR" so they run to another "butterfly"
 

zekko

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Any man dating can fairly quickly determine which category the girl is has placed him in. Any man with lots of female friends will hear them openly discuss the dual strategy in explicitly binary terms.
There are obviously short term and long term dating strategies, but I don't believe that the two types are completely separated.

Specifically, I don't believe that women necessarily view potential LTRs as unattractive, gullible chumps to be taken advantage of. Certainly not early in the relationship. They may view them that way toward the end of the relationship, after they've become tired of them, the hormones have run out, and they've developed irreconcilable differences.
 

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Who goes dumpster diving in search of diamonds?
 

Focal core

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No, not necessarily. I'm just telling you women bifurcate men and they tell me they do it. The "good girls" do not, they only want a husband so that's what they look for and will want a mix of traits usually.
Love your post man... Finally i can take a deep breath. Phewww
 

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I don't believe in the attitude "I'm so alpha, therefore no woman would ever divorce me".
Neither do I. Doing a good job screening is just a small part of a successful marriage anyways, most of what makes a difference comes from the decisions after that. Regardless of top notch screening it won't guarantee success afterwards if you then start making mistakes. Avoid those mistakes and your back to a relatively low chance of divorce again, let's call it risk reduction. Again something we can greatly influence, making it less of a random chance risk.
 

Focal core

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Attraction strategy is always about you.. About what youre projecting in day to day life, and you attracts what you project.. Be yourself (unless youre an abolutely ****ed up then no used pretending either it never end well) water seeks it own level.. No more no less. Lean towards growth and self improvement to get a better fish.
 

HankHill

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OP is Beta cause he talks about other peoples ;)
OP here...you obviously didn't read my post correctly lol

Who cares! At the end of the day, a SoSuave Member made a Thread from this article about how a wife is in love with her Husband through HIS ACTIONS.

That's Alpha.
This was precisely my point for making the thread that by SoSuave's standards this guy is considered a beta provider and that every woman wants to monkey branch but in reality that's not the case.
 

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You guys seem to think being alpha is about how successful you are or your occupation ECT alpha is a personality, beta is a personality, to put it in simple terms

Alpha=dominant personality
Beta=Passive personality

Alpha males are dominant, bold, assertive, aggressive, tough
All traits of masculinity

Alpha is masculinity at it's core.

A guy can work at McDonald's and be a alpha male because it's about his personality not what he does for a living lol.

It's about how you carry yourself and how you interact with others.
 

HankHill

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Nope. My current main squeeze thinks I'm alpha af but the same woman in a few years might think differently when she meets another dude who's fresh. There's this mystery and butterflies about a new relationship. It's like us guys who think a woman is hot but after banging her for a few months you don't have the same feelings. This whole Alpha/Beta stuff is silly. The same man can be alpha and beta depending on the situation and the girl. A HB10 might think I'm beta af but the HB6 would think completely opposite. Besides, there's always someone better, bigger, stronger, wealthier than you...just ask the top guys in sports, there's always someone better to take their spot.
 

Chi Town

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Nope. My current main squeeze thinks I'm alpha af but the same woman in a few years might think differently when she meets another dude who's fresh. There's this mystery and butterflies about a new relationship. It's like us guys who think a woman is hot but after banging her for a few months you don't have the same feelings. This whole Alpha/Beta stuff is silly. The same man can be alpha and beta depending on the situation and the girl. A HB10 might think I'm beta af but the HB6 would think completely opposite. Besides, there's always someone better, bigger, stronger, wealthier than you...just ask the top guys in sports, there's always someone better to take their spot.
None of this has anything to do with "personality"

Your dominant or your passive.
It's that simple.
 

HankHill

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None of this has anything to do with "personality"

Your dominant or your passive.
It's that simple.
Depends on who's judging dude! I've always been dominant but women still moved on, and in fact, in one case to a guy who's weak af, looks ugly, just has tons of money.
 

Chi Town

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Depends on who's judging dude! I've always been dominant but women still moved on, and in fact, in one case to a guy who's weak af, looks ugly, just has tons of money.
Lol true enough, but I never said being alpha or masculine or having the ability to lead is going to make you be able to maintain every women, doesn't matter how attractive a man is, he's not always going to win, everyone takes A Loss sometimes.

You guys want this fairy tale where you can maintain a relationship with women without having to ever worry about losing her, news flash gentlemen, no matter who you are not all women are going to respond to you, of course girls still moved on, who said if your alpha women won't never cheat or leave you?

Those things can and still will happen sometimes, it's called life.
 

HankHill

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That's been exactly my point! You can be this great millionaire, Brad Pitt but there's always going to be a John Cena around the corner so what're you gonna do? Enjoy life while you can without worrying about this alpha/beta frame nonsense. I also still believe that not all women cheat because of some pre-programmed DNA that's just BS to sooth fragile egos. Both men and women cheat because whatever it is that they want out of that relationship is either missing or now gone (e.g. sex, lust, butterflies, security, growth, emotional connection...or whatever).
 

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That's been exactly my point! You can be this great millionaire, Brad Pitt but there's always going to be a John Cena around the corner so what're you gonna do? Enjoy life while you can without worrying about this alpha/beta frame nonsense. I also still believe that not all women cheat because of some pre-programmed DNA that's just BS to sooth fragile egos. Both men and women cheat because whatever it is that they want out of that relationship is either missing or now gone (e.g. sex, lust, butterflies, security, growth, emotional connection...or whatever).
Aint nothing missing. Alot of folks cheat due to greed and others are addicted to something new.
 
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I’m not sure that betas always win or that alphas always win.

There’s a lot of focus on controlling outcomes here. How realistic is that when in most other aspects of life (work, health etc) we can’t truly control the outcome, just better our odds but no guarantees.

Human beings are not puppets who will pull this way or that depending on how you angle your wrist. There is no red pill/pua/frame strategy that guarantees outcomes with other human beings who have minds and desires of their own.

I think all anyone can do is work to improve so they can be the best versions of their true selves to increase their odds of dating success. Anything fake is not sustainable and will be exhausting to maintain.

Some guys aren’t going to be ‘alpha’ but they’re not ejected from the dating pool. Some guys are not going to be ‘beta’ but it doesn’t make them immune to being hurt by women.

There really is something out there for every girl. Beta or alpha or whatever in between. We all know guys who fall on various spots along the spectrum of alpha or beta who are having some success at dating and relationships.
 
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