Agree/Disagree - the reason "nice guy types" fail with women is...

[Red Legg]

Our culture is so toxic that genuine confidence and civility is mistaken for weakness.

Never mistake my kindness for weakness.

 

[Mike32ct]

Never mistake my kindness for weakness.

Agree 100%.

But I wouldn’t even worry about that.

For kind people who aren’t weak, there is really nothing to prove.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Never mistake my kindness for weakness.

This is irrelevant. This kind of attitude is irrelevant to the reality of how people treat each other

 

[Chi Town]

Yes, being nice is not the problem, being a weak pushover is. Nice guys(not all) tend to fall into the extreme end of niceness where they compromise there own interest and feelings for the women. They worship the ground she walks on and constantly bends over backwards to try to please her. Apparently, nice guys don't understand that being nice doesn't mean your suppose to be a pushover lol.

 

[Chi Town]

I am a nice guy/non pushover and still get mistreated worse than if I was a sociopathic azzhole, pretty sure

Really? Give a few examples

 

[Spaz]

Passive men, those in the expressive or intellectual quadrant will undoubtedly get "bullied" more often then not because they lack dominant traits.

Dominant men will not tolerate breaking of boundaries, passive men will negotiate or in the end try to make compromises.

However dominants are subject to being the "nice" guy when they are young and malleable, more so if their frame is compromised by the early teachings of their mothers/femcentric programming. That's where @sazc post above illustrates. They r the classic fvcked up dominants who's yet to have mastery over their frame's.

For passive men, ur inherent trait can't be change but it can be tempered, don't try being a dominant, it won't work. What you should do is find women that's leans more towards a passive personality. Those nerdy girls fit the bill. Women like @sazc would crush you (I'm just using ur Alpha-Ness as an example dear..).

 

[sazc]

Passive men, those in the expressive or intellectual quadrant will undoubtedly get "bullied" more often then not because they lack dominant traits.

Dominant men will not tolerate breaking of boundaries, passive men will negotiate or in the end try to make compromises.

However dominants are subject to being the "nice" guy when they are young and malleable, more so if their frame is compromised by the early teachings of their mothers/femcentric programming. That's where @sazc post above illustrates. They r the classic fvcked up dominants who's yet to have mastery over their frame's.

For passive men, ur inherent trait can't be change but it can be tempered, don't try being a dominant, it won't work. What you should do is find women that's leans more towards a passive personality. Those nerdy girls fit the bill. Women like @sazc would crush you (I'm just using ur Alpha-Ness as an example dear..).

Crushing is a choice, not the norm

 

[Red Legg]

Full blown cluster B right there gentlemen.

 

[Spaz]

Crushing is a choice, not the norm

For the passive man, your dominance coupled with ur femcentric views will eventually crush him.

It's inevitable.

You will seek him out for he is malleable, that's when you finally feel "power". The power over men. It's exciting and alluring for a woman.

And all women want power...

 

[sazc]

For the passive man, your dominance coupled with ur femcentric views will eventually crush him.

It's inevitable.

You will seek him out for he is malleable, that's when you finally feel "power". The power over men. It's exciting and alluring for a woman.

And all women want power...

Malleable men are uninteresting, repulsive in a way. I don't seek them out and, if I find them, I drop them. Usually they reveal themselves quickly via inconsistent statements - an attempt to justify a decision or behavior with a reason that makes no sense.

Example "I'm separated but still married because we did debt consolidation and can't get divorced until the debt is paid off"

What the ever loving fvck?

I assume they think they are talking to someone with no/low intelligence.

That one got nicely dismissed with a "wow, I'm really sorry but you have way too much going on in your life for me"

It's hard to find a quality man, not to mention that most of them are broke AF

 

[Spaz]

Malleable men are uninteresting, repulsive in a way. I don't seek them out and, if I find them, I drop them. Usually they reveal themselves quickly via inconsistent statements - an attempt to justify a decision or behavior with a reason that makes no sense.

Example "I'm separated but still married because we did debt consolidation and can't get divorced until the debt is paid off"

What the ever loving fvck?

I assume they think they are talking to someone with no/low intelligence.

That one got nicely dismissed with a "wow, I'm really sorry but you have way too much going on in your life for me"

It's hard to find a quality man, not to mention that most of them are broke AF

Interesting.

You've had ur way with the passive man and now recognise that they don't suit you.

Impressive @sazc .

And yes in order for you to be truly happy, you'll need a dominant man from either the doer (as u r) or a motivator. They belong in the dominant category such as urself.

When you do catch one, explore his frame @sazc , you'll need to be sure to be truly happy in the end.

 

[Mike32ct]

From a nice guy perspective, we honestly CAN’T grasp WHY women think there is something “wrong” with us being nice.

Such guy might be polite, trustworthy, intelligent, funny, etc. But somehow he’s still “in the wrong,” as compared to a hot-headed short-fused controlling guy who gets into fights lol.

I’ll be brutally honest. I write off the “nice guy finishes last” thing as a looks issue because it’s the only explanation I can truly wrap my head around.

I will never understand a “need for drama” or a “need to be dominated” (except maybe in bed sometimes lol). I’m not a chick.

 

[Chi Town]

From a nice guy perspective, we honestly CAN’T grasp WHY women think there is something “wrong” with us being nice.

Such guy might be polite, trustworthy, intelligent, funny, etc. But somehow he’s still “in the wrong,” as compared to a hot-headed short-fused controlling guy who gets into fights lol.

I’ll be brutally honest. I write off the “nice guy finishes last” thing as a looks issue because it’s the only explanation I can truly wrap my head around.

I will never understand a “need for drama” or a “need to be dominated” (except maybe in bed sometimes lol). I’m not a chick.

As a non nice guy let me explain to you why "nice guy" behavior is unattractive.

Think about this, what women would be attracted to a guy who worships the ground she walks on or who goes out of his way to constantly please her? Why would a women want someone she can push around or someone who does everything she says?
Who the hell would want to date a people pleaser or a passive Man?

You say you don't understand the need for drama? How can you not understand that? Do you realize how boring it is to be in a relationship with someone who "does everything right" or someone who is "always on there best behavior" that sh!t is horribly boring lol.

You say you don't understand a women's need to be dominated by a Man? Well ask yourself why would a women want to be with a passive, submissive Man? Do you really not see how this is unattractive? How can a women be attracted to a wuss?

Women are attracted to men! Masculinity, dominance, strength, toughness, confidence, assertiveness ECT these are MANLY qualities.

 

[Chi Town]

What women are attracted to and what they need for a successful long term relationship are two different things, a women's attraction is biological, it goes back to the primitive times where women needed to be with tough, masculine men who can protect her and there children and can pose the biggest likelihood of there survival.

Niceness, compassion, empathy, caringness and selflessness are traits that were a disadvantage back in those times because those men were considered soft, just like those traits are disadvantages in environments like prison or the "hood" which i lived in both. Those nice soft guys didn't last long lol.

This is a tough and brutal world and only the strong survive, the weak will parish. Women don't think about this in the literal sense, it's all subconscious thinking.

If someone broke in into your home your wife needs to know that you are brave enough and have the strength to defend your family and home. If someone disrespected her by grabbing her ass while you guys are on a date what are you going to do about it?

When you come off a "too nice" you seem like a wimp, point blank period

 

[Mike32ct]

As a non nice guy let me explain to you why "nice guy" behavior is unattractive.

Think about this, what women would be attracted to a guy who worships the ground she walks on or who goes out of his way to constantly please her? Why would a women want someone she can push around or someone who does everything she says?
Who the hell would want to date a people pleaser or a passive Man?

Most nice guys aren’t the over the top kind that are buying her flowers every date and texting non-stop. Most are not clingers as the stereotype suggests.

But passive? Yes, I’l grant you that. Absolutely. Being too chill or laid back can easily be seen as being passive.

You say you don't understand the need for drama? How can you not understand that? Do you realize how boring it is to be in a relationship with someone who "does everything right" or someone who is "always on there best behavior" that sh!t is horribly boring lol.

Understood. But nobody (including a nice guy) is always on their best behavior. Everybody has some drama. We’re all human with emotions.

You say you don't understand a women's need to be dominated by a Man? Well ask yourself why would a women want to be with a passive, submissive Man? Do you really not see how this is unattractive? How can a women be attracted to a wuss?

Who said anything about submissive? There’s no middle ground? If your not dom, you are automatically considered sub?

Trying to “dominate” others or control situations flys in the face of the DGAF game advice.

Women are attracted to men! Masculinity, dominance, strength, toughness, confidence, assertiveness ECT these are MANLY qualities.

Fair enough. And thanks for the detailed reply.

The only point I want to make is that while some guys are hardwired to be more dominant, some of us are hardwired to be more passive. We’re naturally more chill and laid back. It’s not something we “choose.” That’s all.

 

[Mike32ct]

What women are attracted to and what they need for a successful long term relationship are two different things, a women's attraction is biological, it goes back to the primitive times where women needed to be with tough, masculine men who can protect her and there children and can pose the biggest likelihood of there survival.

Women reject the nice guys for both relationships and sex. If we are going to use a biological angle, I think it applies to both.

Niceness, compassion, empathy, caringness and selflessness are traits that were a disadvantage back in those times because those men were considered soft, just like those traits are disadvantages in environments like prison or the "hood" which i lived in both. Those nice soft guys didn't last long lol.

This is a tough and brutal world and only the strong survive, the weak will parish. Women don't think about this in the literal sense, it's all subconscious thinking.

If someone broke in into your home your wife needs to know that you are brave enough and have the strength to defend your family and home. If someone disrespected her by grabbing her ass while you guys are on a date what are you going to do about it?

When you come off a "too nice" you seem like a wimp, point blank period

Your point is well taken. But some of us aren’t wimps. We would only show an aggressive side if truly backed in a corner. But I can understand where a chick wouldn’t know that.

 

[Chi Town]

Fair enough. And thanks for the detailed reply.

The only point I want to make is that while some guys are hardwired to be more dominant, some of us are hardwired to be more passive. We’re naturally more chill and laid back. It’s not something we “choose.” That’s all.

Being chill and laid back is not related to being passive, I'm natural dominant and a pretty hard nosed guy and I also can be very laid back, a laid back person can take charge and lead others, dominant men can also be laid back or chill individual's.

Women don't want nice guys, they want masculine, strong men with a balance of niceness. I'm not mean or cruel with the women in my life, in fact, I charm the hell out them, especially if there really cute but I never get treated with disrespect because the "charm/niceness is coming from a strong man if that makes sense.

 

[Chi Town]

Also, look at it this way, nice guys are nice and caring without the edge if that makes sense. guys who are just nice are not attractive, but if your nice but also are masculine and strong then you can get away with it. If your a nice person then be that but you must have the MANLY qualities as well to balance it out, if your just nice and your missing these manly qualities then, well you know the rest.

 

[zekko]

From a nice guy perspective, we honestly CAN’T grasp WHY women think there is something “wrong” with us being nice.

Such guy might be polite, trustworthy, intelligent, funny, etc. But somehow he’s still “in the wrong,” as compared to a hot-headed short-fused controlling guy who gets into fights lol.

There's nothing wrong with being nice, kind, etc. You have to realize that when PUAs talk about "nice guys", they are not talking about what normal people think of as nice. They are specifically talking about guys who go out of their way to be a doormat, to put all their self esteem on the hopes of one woman that they put on a pedestal, guys who are weak in general. The guys they are talking about are actually really jerks, because they are only putting on their nice behavior as a way to manipulate the girl into giving him what he wants. In PUA-speak, the "nice guy" is really a jerk, and the jerk is really a nice guy. Their version of a jerk is a guy who simply goes after what he wants.

Being nice or kind is a good thing, but it's not an attraction factor. Women will be attracted to what they are attracted to, strength, dominance, good genes, whatever. Only after they are attracted will they look at things like how you treat them to filter you out as a potential long term mate. For some, they will already be emotionally hooked on a guy by the time they find out he's not a good person. And some girls are simply damaged and will seek out abusive men.

 

[Spaz]

There r 2 quadrants of passive men Zekko.

You're in the intellectual quadrant, introvert, shy, low socialising skills and you basically operate rationally.

The other is the Expressive quadrant, outgoing, artistic, high social skills and they basically don't operate rationally.

Sometimes they even try emulating dominant traits that usually ends up as being labelled as jerks.

But while you can think rationally and base ur decisions on it, the vast majority of humanity doesn't.

ChiTown has rightly pointed out that passive men can acquire manly skills.

All men in the 4 personality quadrants needs to acquire manly traits.