The Purpose of Game is to be the Exact Opposite of an Orbiter

[jacketrunner]

I've been watching "Red Pill Interviews" lately, where an Australian guy interviews girls about their opinions on topics discussed by the Red Pill Community.

I think they're super insightful. For one, they manage to touch on Red Pill topics (validating many of them), and two, they actually humanize the girls, which makes them more relatable. Yes, women may be devious in a variety of ways, but they're also just girls.

One video really struck me as revealing, which was the one on "Orbiters". Virtually every girl in this video admitted that she had led guys on in order to feed her ego and get things from him, and they also revealed that they knew it was wrong but they did it anyway.

While "alpha/beta" is a useful concept, I think if there was one simple way to think about game, it would be that you should be the exact opposite of an orbiter. Prioritize yourself... do not be someone who feeds a girl's ego, pays her compliments, makes her feel more special than you while you receive nothing in return. The girls are very aware of what's going on, and have absolutely no respect for these men.

Some quotes on Orbiters:
"They're there for you 100% no matter what"
"They'll provide compliments or pay you more attention"
"They're really good for the self-esteem"
"They help with the confidence... it's a self-esteem boost"
"[An orbiter is] someone else there who's giving them compliments, who's giving them attention when [the girl] might not in fact reciprocate it"
"It's enjoyable to have multiple men interested in you and paying you attention"
"It's nice to feel wanted"
"More of a comfort thing"
"More of a confidence boost"
"They think that you're more important or more special than the person next to you"

When the interviewer asks why the girls aren't honest about their lack of romantic interest:
"It's not nice to tell someone you're not interested... it's just an uncomfortable situation"
"You don't want to hurt their feelings by saying no straight up"
"Keep them in the friend zone to avoid hurting their feelings"
"You become avoidant to it"
"Once they find out you're not interested in them, they'll probably stop showing you attention bc it's not their end goal"
"The girls fear losing the friend... they'd rather string him along and still have the friend, then tell them the truth and not want to be a friend."

Finally, toward the end, one of the girl says:
"The less they try to interact with you the more you want to interact with them"

=========

Girls in this video freely admit to doing the wrong thing by stringing guys along who feed their ego, knowing that it's technically the wrong thing to do. They clearly have no respect for these men, who they see as laughable.

One problem with the Red Pill Community is that many of its members seem so bitter and hateful... the overall tone is not attractive. When you watch this video, you can see that the girls view the orbiter phenomenon as humorous. And when you take a step back, they're right... it's actually pretty funny. These guys are lame.

If you understand this aspect of feminine psychology, and do so in a humorous, self-amused, non-bitter way; I think girls will love you for it. Girls are aware of what's going on, and you should be too.

It's actually very easy to empathize with these girls.

If you were a girl, which guy would you respect more:

1. The one who's aware of your attempts to string him along and lightly brushes it off, not taking any of your sh1t?
2. Or the one who constantly does things for you to feed your ego while not actually getting what he clearly wants?

Obviously, you'd respect the first.

Now, out of the Group 1 guys who realize what you're doing and won't allow themselves to be strung along by your manipulations, which one would you like and respect more:

1. The one who goes on a bitter screed about how women are evil, manipulative b1tches who can't make their intentions straightforward?
2. Or the self-amused man who accepts this aspect of women, views it as silly and cute, doesn't let it get power over him, and uses it to his advantage?

Obviously, #2 is the one you'd want to be with. Women are aware of their true natures, and realize that it's the wrong thing to do, and do it anyway. However, they're not necessarily evil, they just don't respect chumps (and neither should you). Women are just giggly, unconfident girls who want an ego boost from male attention, and are trying to make it in the world like you and me.

People often cite James Bond as the ideal model of the male behavior, but I think that for a clear example of someone who embodies the self-amused man who calls girls out on their sh1t in a hilarious way, there is no better example than Clark Gable. As an actor in the 1930s, his movies took place in an era where feminism did not exist in any meaningful way.

From It Happened One Night:

In this clip, the girl is used to be being pedestalized and having the world wait on her hand and foot. Clark Gable's character prioritizes himself, treats her as a bratty little sister, and does so in a confident, self-amused way. Later in the film, she falls in love with him.

From Gone with The Wind:

In this clip, Clark Gable's character is extremely self-amused, takes none of what the girl says at face value. He treats her like his bratty little sister, and laughs at the dramatic love scene that took place before him.

Could you imagine Clark Gable being a lovestruck orbiter who's strung along by a girl who is using him to get what she wants? No, he's the exact opposite. He operates in the world as a self-amused man on a higher level of understanding. He sees women's true nature and doesn't hate them for it -- he thinks it's hilarious.

What's more, women should like Clark Gable more than they like some lame orbiter guy. We tend to look at women as somehow misguided for not going along with Disney-tier narratives, when often, they're just good at figuring out who's actually cool. It can be hard for our egos to accept this.

-----
To breakdown this topic further:

Orbiter Qualities:
+Attentive and compliant, prioritizes women over himself
+Allows himself to be strung along
+Madly in love
+Doesn't get what he wants
+Nice, bc he doesn't want to offend girl or make her not like him. Takes the girl seriously.
+Respects girl and her feminine feelings, while she doesn't respect him or his male feelings
+Not presenting himself or his desires as they really are

Opposite of Orbiter qualities:
+Distant and non-compliant, prioritizes himself and his own needs
+Women have no power over him
+Gets what he wants
+Jerk, doesn't care about offending women. Doesn't take the girl seriously.
+Doesn't respect girl's outward, silly feminine feelings. Instead, she gets sucked into his confident masculinity.
+Presents his true self-centered desires, rather than putting on a front that he cares about the girl's desires to get reciprocal benefits

It's important, in my opinion, to be a funny jerk. Because humor has a way of making the negative positive.

But the bottom line is, don't be an ORBITER. Do you want a girl laughing at you bc she knows she has you wrapped around her finger?

No, you want to be Clark Gable. Laugh at the girl because you know her silly ways, and love her for them anyway.

 

[Soflobro#3]

I've been watching "Red Pill Interviews" lately, where an Australian guy interviews girls about their opinions on topics discussed by the Red Pill Community.

I think they're super insightful. For one, they manage to touch on Red Pill topics (validating many of them), and two, they actually humanize the girls, which makes them more relatable. Yes, women may be devious in a variety of ways, but they're also just girls.

One video really struck me as revealing, which was the one on "Orbiters". Virtually every girl in this video admitted that she had led guys on in order to feed her ego and get things from him, and they also revealed that they knew it was wrong but they did it anyway.

While "alpha/beta" is a useful concept, I think if there was one simple way to think about game, it would be that you should be the exact opposite of an orbiter. Prioritize yourself... do not be someone who feeds a girl's ego, pays her compliments, makes her feel more special than you while you receive nothing in return. The girls are very aware of what's going on, and have absolutely no respect for these men.

Some quotes on Orbiters:
"They're there for you 100% no matter what"
"They'll provide compliments or pay you more attention"
"They're really good for the self-esteem"
"They help with the confidence... it's a self-esteem boost"
"[An orbiter is] someone else there who's giving them compliments, who's giving them attention when [the girl] might not in fact reciprocate it"
"It's enjoyable to have multiple men interested in you and paying you attention"
"It's nice to feel wanted"
"More of a comfort thing"
"More of a confidence boost"
"They think that you're more important or more special than the person next to you"

When the interviewer asks why the girls aren't honest about their lack of romantic interest:
"It's not nice to tell someone you're not interested... it's just an uncomfortable situation"
"You don't want to hurt their feelings by saying no straight up"
"Keep them in the friend zone to avoid hurting their feelings"
"You become avoidant to it"
"Once they find out you're not interested in them, they'll probably stop showing you attention bc it's not their end goal"
"The girls fear losing the friend... they'd rather string him along and still have the friend, then tell them the truth and not want to be a friend."

Finally, toward the end, one of the girl says:
"The less they try to interact with you the more you want to interact with them"

=========

Girls in this video freely admit to doing the wrong thing by stringing guys along who feed their ego, knowing that it's technically the wrong thing to do. They clearly have no respect for these men, who they see as laughable.

One problem with the Red Pill Community is that many of its members seem so bitter and hateful... the overall tone is not attractive. When you watch this video, you can see that the girls view the orbiter phenomenon as humorous. And when you take a step back, they're right... it's actually pretty funny. These guys are lame.

If you understand this aspect of feminine psychology, and do so in a humorous, self-amused, non-bitter way; I think girls will love you for it. Girls are aware of what's going on, and you should be too.

It's actually very easy to empathize with these girls.

If you were a girl, which guy would you respect more:

1. The one who's aware of your attempts to string him along and lightly brushes it off, not taking any of your sh1t?
2. Or the one who constantly does things for you to feed your ego while not actually getting what he clearly wants?

Obviously, you'd respect the first.

Now, out of the Group 1 guys who realize what you're doing and won't allow themselves to be strung along by your manipulations, which one would you like and respect more:

1. The one who goes on a bitter screed about how women are evil, manipulative b1tches who can't make their intentions straightforward?
2. Or the self-amused man who accepts this aspect of women, views it as silly and cute, doesn't let it get power over him, and uses it to his advantage?

Obviously, #2 is the one you'd want to be with. Women are aware of their true natures, and realize that it's the wrong thing to do, and do it anyway. However, they're not necessarily evil, they just don't respect chumps (and neither should you). Women are just giggly, unconfident girls who want an ego boost from male attention, and are trying to make it in the world like you and me.

People often cite James Bond as the ideal model of the male behavior, but I think that for a clear example of someone who embodies the self-amused man who calls girls out on their sh1t in a hilarious way, there is no better example than Clark Gable. As an actor in the 1930s, his movies took place in an era where feminism did not exist in any meaningful way.

From It Happened One Night:

In this clip, the girl is used to be being pedestalized and having the world wait on her hand and foot. Clark Gable's character prioritizes himself, treats her as a bratty little sister, and does so in a confident, self-amused way. Later in the film, she falls in love with him.

From Gone with The Wind:

In this clip, Clark Gable's character is extremely self-amused, takes none of what the girl says at face value. He treats her like his bratty little sister, and laughs at the dramatic love scene that took place before him.

Could you imagine Clark Gable being a lovestruck orbiter who's strung along by a girl who is using him to get what she wants? No, he's the exact opposite. He operates in the world as a self-amused man on a higher level of understanding. He sees women's true nature and doesn't hate them for it -- he thinks it's hilarious.

What's more, women should like Clark Gable more than they like some lame orbiter guy. We tend to look at women as somehow misguided for not going along with Disney-tier narratives, when often, they're just good at figuring out who's actually cool. It can be hard for our egos to accept this.

-----
To breakdown this topic further:

Orbiter Qualities:
+Attentive and compliant, prioritizes women over himself
+Allows himself to be strung along
+Madly in love
+Doesn't get what he wants
+Nice, bc he doesn't want to offend girl or make her not like him. Takes the girl seriously.
+Respects girl and her feminine feelings, while she doesn't respect him or his male feelings
+Not presenting himself or his desires as they really are

Opposite of Orbiter qualities:
+Distant and non-compliant, prioritizes himself and his own needs
+Women have no power over him
+Gets what he wants
+Jerk, doesn't care about offending women. Doesn't take the girl seriously.
+Doesn't respect girl's outward, silly feminine feelings. Instead, she gets sucked into his confident masculinity.
+Presents his true self-centered desires, rather than putting on a front that he cares about the girl's desires to get reciprocal benefits

It's important, in my opinion, to be a funny jerk. Because humor has a way of making the negative positive.

But the bottom line is, don't be an ORBITER. Do you want a girl laughing at you bc she knows she has you wrapped around her finger?

No, you want to be Clark Gable. Laugh at the girl because you know her silly ways, and love her for them anyway.

checked

 

[zekko]

Girls in this video freely admit to doing the wrong thing by stringing guys along who feed their ego, knowing that it's technically the wrong thing to do. They clearly have no respect for these men, who they see as laughable.

Good post. I like the DJ/Orbiter juxtaposition better than the alpha/beta example probably, it paints a clearer picture IMO.

I think you've gone a bit too far saying the girls have NO respect for these guys. I think they do like these guys on some level, although it's more like a low level friend. They do want to spare their feelings to some extent, but maybe don't quite know how to do it. They do kind of want them around, but they want them around on their terms, and not the guy's. Clearly they are aware these guys don't have many options. I just don't think it's all evil and selfishness that they "lead them on". It's not really their fault that guys find them desirable, and aren't happy just being platonic.

 

[Soflobro#3]

Good post. I like the DJ/Orbiter juxtaposition better than the alpha/beta example probably, it paints a clearer picture IMO.

I think you've gone a bit too far saying the girls have NO respect for these guys. I think they do like these guys on some level, although it's more like a low level friend. They do want to spare their feelings to some extent, but maybe don't quite know how to do it. They do kind of want them around, but they want them around on their terms, and not the guy's. Clearly they are aware these guys don't have many options. I just don't think it's all evil and selfishness that they "lead them on". It's not really their fault that guys find them desirable, and aren't happy just being platonic.

I truly believe women don't know what they're always doing, which it's why as men it is our job to lead them.

 

[jacketrunner]

Good post. I like the DJ/Orbiter juxtaposition better than the alpha/beta example probably, it paints a clearer picture IMO.

I think you've gone a bit too far saying the girls have NO respect for these guys. I think they do like these guys on some level, although it's more like a low level friend. They do want to spare their feelings to some extent, but maybe don't quite know how to do it. They do kind of want them around, but they want them around on their terms, and not the guy's. Clearly they are aware these guys don't have many options. I just don't think it's all evil and selfishness that they "lead them on". It's not really their fault that guys find them desirable, and aren't happy just being platonic.

Well if you look at the way they talk about orbiters, it's with a sense of sympathy and derision. They only respect orbiters as people who can serve their own needs, and don't want to be seen as cruel b1tches, either.

I don't think that these women are evil, which is one of the main points of my post. I do think that as a man, asserting your own needs strongly, first and foremost, is a much more effective strategy than trying to give her hers.

This fact is true both from the perspective of getting attraction from women, and just as a general life strategy to get what you want.

A woman should feel you and your needs, before you ever reciprocate and start to fulfill her own. She should enter your orbit, which will happen naturally with self-improvement, confidence, and raising your SMV.

When a girl is trying to manipulate you to get her needs met, or gratify her ego in any way, she will respect you more if you treat her like a bratty little sister, rather than being accommodating and compliant in the hopes of her reciprocating.

It's also best to do this in a lighthearted and humorous way, as being self-amused is a positive energy that will draw women into your orbit. Self-amusement is inherently non-needy, bc you're already amusing yourself without depending on an audience.

 

[zekko]

I truly believe women don't know what they're always doing, which it's why as men it is our job to lead them.

I think you're right in the sense that maybe they don't fully know how to handle these guys. They don't want to inconvenience themselves by p!ssing them off and making a scene, and they don't really want to hurt the guy's feelings either. So they don't really know what to do with them, other than befriend them and use them to their advantage.

Well if you look at the way they talk about orbiters, it's with a sense of sympathy and derision. They only respect orbiters as people who can serve their own needs, and don't want to be seen as cruel b1tches, either.

I agree they don't fully respect them, but I don't think they fully disrespect them either. I think many girls are kind of fond of their orbiters in some sense, in many cases I think they would genuinely like them as friends. But these guys are somewhat pathetic creatures to begin with, and the girls realize that. Certainly no one here should aspire to be an orbiter, it's like aspiring to being somebody's lap dog.

 

[jacketrunner]

I agree they don't fully respect them, but I don't think they fully disrespect them either. I think many girls are kind of fond of their orbiters in some sense, in many cases I think they would genuinely like them as friends. But these guys are somewhat pathetic creatures to begin with, and the girls realize that. Certainly no one here should aspire to be an orbiter, it's like aspiring to being somebody's lap dog.

They respect them in the sense that they might respect a senior citizen who they describe as “cute”.

They respect them in the sense that you would not want to be rude to your server or valet.

They may even respect them as a friend.

But when it comes to the sexual/romantic arena, orbiters are about as low as it gets. They’re nothing more than a way for girls to revel in their sexual power and gain favors, using other mens’ hopeless desire for romantic/sexual fulfillment as a means of achieving what they want (ego boost, attention, and/or favors).

It’s funny. Now that I think about it, there is one girl at work who is my orbiter. She is unattractive but extremely eager to please. I flirt with her and tease her as a means of feeling better about myself and getting what I want, and I know she wants to get to me (she intensely hits on me when drunk at work events), but she’s not at all attractive.

I think, however, that this power dynamic in a romantic relationship is more tolerable and sustainable when the girl aims to please the guy, rather than the guy aiming to please the girl. Girls more comfortably fall into the relationship position of trying to serve men, and can’t romantically respect a guy who neglects his own needs to serve her.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I truly believe women don't know what they're always doing, which it's why as men it is our job to lead them.

This scenario is hypergamy at it's basically level.

One guy who really likes her for some Reason she can't get into him. He's reliable, helps her, available and doesn't play games. Her Attention and emotional needs are met.

Other guy she can't help lusting after. Comes over one or two nights a week to hit it and leave. Unreliable, flakes on her, emotionally unavailable. She can't help that she wants him.

It's not always intentional it's this way. They often wish they could feel desire for the orbiter, or that the Chad would be more reliable like the orbiter.

 

[jacketrunner]

I agree they don't fully respect them, but I don't think they fully disrespect them either. I think many girls are kind of fond of their orbiters in some sense, in many cases I think they would genuinely like them as friends.

Thinking more on this topic, I think we have to disentangle respect on a sexual/romantic level and respect from a basic human level.

When we talk about romantic respect, we’re talking about who is making the effort to fulfill the other’s needs in the hopes of gaining his/her sexual/romantic fulfillment.

Ideally, both partners would be making an effort to do so, but when we talk about game, the goal of any man should be to get the girl in a state where she feels a strong desire to fulfill his own needs, and not out of a moral obligation to reciprocate.

By strongly asserting your own needs, and letting her know that you’re the man, you can avoid the orbiter status and polarize your target — either her interest level is high enough to get her in this state, or she doesn’t give af about you romantically and you don’t have to waste your time as the pathetic orbiter trying to curry favor with the queen.

By using humor and self-amusement, you can really go above and beyond - through role playing, agree and amplify, etc. - you can naturally create this kind of dynamic in a way that makes her laugh.

Humor is covert/indirect, which is the way women communicate, and I think it likely evolved in men as a way to achieve sexual success.

 

[jacketrunner]

This scenario is hypergamy at it's basically level.

One guy who really likes her for some Reason she can't get into him. He's reliable, helps her, available and doesn't play games. Her Attention and emotional needs are met.

Other guy she can't help lusting after. Comes over one or two nights a week to hit it and leave. Unreliable, flakes on her, emotionally unavailable. She can't help that she wants him.

It's not always intentional it's this way. They often wish they could feel desire for the orbiter, or that the Chad would be more reliable like the orbiter.

This is a good point, as attractive guys will **** less attractive girls without commitment -- although I think when it comes to relationships, you will likely line up with a woman of similar SMV to you if you have no game. Similar attractiveness, similar social status, etc. The man is usually slightly above the women in status for the relationship to work well naturally, and the woman will usually not cheat for fear of losing her boyfriend/husband. Marriages tend to happen when girls know their SMV is fading, so they try to lock up a guy for fear of being a barren spinster.

Now as men, we would like to achieve the best of our abilities when it comes to dating and relationships, and even date out of our league if possible. Doing so will actually raise our confidence and status on a long-term basis, as we will demonstrate pre-selection and be more comfortable in the presence of beautiful woman, who will permanently raise the bar for our standards.

In order to do so, we would want to behave in the way that is most attractive to women, rather than just "being ourselves" and letting the cards fall into place.

The key may be to put her in a state where she's investing in you and meeting your needs -- see the Ben Franklin Effect -- where you're the person who cares less about the relationship (the one-up) than she does. She wants closeness, while you would prefer a little bit of distance.

Maximizing your attractiveness is the most natural way to do this. However, from a psychology/behavioral perspective, you should be strongly ensuring that she is investing you and meeting your needs, while you reciprocate to the level that she feels gratified and not used.

It would be interesting on seeing a post of how you can get girls to invest in you. Cooking for you is one way, as is having her physically come to your location, and having her do the chasing and reaching out. It might be a good relationship tactic to constantly ask her to do favors for you, and then reward her for doing so with affection.

This tactic is more positive than "keeping your options open" through dread, as it puts her in a state where she is happy to please you, rather than scared to lose you.

 

[zekko]

They respect them in the sense that they might respect a senior citizen who they describe as “cute”.

Careful there, buddy

 

[ubercat]

I must admit I had more luck in New Zealand when I was younger. So it could be an age thing and Australian culture is very similar to American culture. New Zealand is more British.

But anyway in the last 15 years I haven't found female friends to be particularly reliable. If that makes sense from a red pill perspective because if a girl is into the new boyfriend the more guys she hangs out with the more chance he dumps her ass. So even from a friendship point of view I see $0.00 in being an orbiter.

I've got couples I've been friends with for years but even that gets complicated as long term girlfriends inevitably try and assimilate them.

 

[ubercat]

Only investment front my girlfriend researches shares for me. So far I've made small money from investing small money. But it gives us a shared interest and she's doing something for me.

So I reckon it's a bonus if you can find something that they are in 2 and she's still doing something for you. So for example if your chick loves travel get her to you look for cheap flights. You save a bucket of time and she will be proud when she finds some

 

[jacketrunner]

Only investment front my girlfriend researches shares for me. So far I've made small money from investing small money. But it gives us a shared interest and she's doing something for me.

So I reckon it's a bonus if you can find something that they are in 2 and she's still doing something for you. So for example if your chick loves travel get her to you look for cheap flights. You save a bucket of time and she will be proud when she finds some

Investment doesn’t mean literally finance.

It means that she’s putting an effort into pleasing you.

 

[ubercat]

Seriously kid?