The best option for men is definitely MGTOW, the dating game is a lose lose game

guru1000

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Since they are just average looking, I don't know why they acted so surprised. If you are as good looking as you say, it should have been self explanatory.


What you say is correct, but that is not what I mean. When I talk about confidence, I mean the confidence of being a capable man, of being able to handle situations, of being able to succeed at life. This may be a generational thing, because I was raised at a time when a man's self esteem was closely tied to his work.

I've talked about this before, but when I was a young man I struggled in many ways. I was keenly aware that most of my friends made more money than I did, they always seemed to be more successful. I had been raised alone basically, so I also had to battle a problem with shyness (which also held me back financially). As I said, maybe this is a generational thing, but this affected me to my core as a man. But I was obsessed with self improving, so eventually I reached the point where I had reversed it, and I was the one making more money. This was a life struggle that gave me all around confidence in a way that I never would have had if I hadn't been successful.

As for power, I was talking more about "power over other people". People might treat you like you are more important. If you look at 50 Shades of Gray, Christian is the billionaire CEO of a large company. He commands basically everyone around him. He has close "servants" around him that do his bidding and will even risk their life for him. Just like a famous rapper might have a bodyguard who will put themselves in danger to protect him. That's more what I was thinking of when I was saying that money can bring power, and power can be an aphrodisiac.

I've noticed a trend here lately on the forum, where posters are saying that money is no factor at all in attraction. I think the pendulum has swung too far in this direction at present. Money isn't the most important factor, and it can be a double edged sword, but it is a factor. I believe it's part of the "LMS" trifecta for a reason. The alpha in a tribe is not a guy who lacks resources.

This doesn't mean that women won't bang the broke pool boy. But it also doesn't mean that they can never be attracted to a successful man. That just seems like common sense.
Zekko, you know a little of my background with money. I'm a VC, lol. You know I'd love to say to all to make money to attract women. Notice guys like Urbanyst or BigNeil start making a little money and then soliciting the forum that money gets you hot women. I'd like to say that it does but it doesn't.

The power you refer to as Christian as a billionaire CEO of a large company deals with status, which is the single most powerful catalyst to attraction, much more than looks.

I report my experiences. And you know, I have many. Many of those experiences will conflict with much of what the Manosphere had previously thought. And that's has always been my agenda (kind of like yours), which is to break previous ineffective thinking patterns and lead men to the truth.

Money in itself does little in attraction, although it can get you money-hungry women, hookers, strippers, and buy things that give one the illusion of status. However, whether one has 1000 in their bank account or 10 million, will not get women's panties wet.

Attraction boils down to two elements looks and status. The way one presents himself to others, his "game," his confidence in attracting other hot women I subsume these traits under "status," as it demonstrates to the girl how he corresponds within a social hierarchy. Hence, why good "game" can be quite powerful.

Also not having enough money can be a deal breaker to some women in the highest echelon of society, but again this deals more with status within a higher hierarchy, and the "net worth" itself is a tool which demonstrates one's status within this hierarchy. But even within this echelon, everyone has money, and so money is a prerequisite for entrance, and the not the catalyst of attraction.

As to money, I encourage all men to accumulate wealth for an easier and more powerful life for themselves, but not in hopes that it will change their dating life.
 
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Red Legg

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A girl doesn't know whether you have a net worth of 10k or 10 mil at first meet. She only goes by your style and presentation, both of which can be had by broke men. The question of wealth a/k/a security comes more into play in LTR evaluation.

Money can be used to attract using status symbols, but, again, the same can be finessed by insolvent men (see Richard's lambo).

What's relevant for the posters in this site is Looks come first. Though high status (e.g. yacht, lambo, mansions, frequent bottle service at the high-ends) can attract, but how many posters on this site will get to that echelon and even if they did, is that the type of women most here wish to attract?

Further, but most importantly, I have a long list of acquaintances of men 5mil+ net worths, who cannot find hot women to date. One or two of them are on this site!

Money in attraction is overrated. Fact.
Spot on.....I have been poor as fvck before (not now) and pulled 9's 10's consistently when I was a young private in the Army in 1989 I made 800 dollars a month that was basically just an alcohol fund.I loved when they would pay my way into a club and buy me drinks (I rarely spent a dime) and men who drove to the club in a brand new Mercedes with a suit on would be shocked their jaws would literally hit the floor that was the best feeling I ever experienced in my whole life (I felt like I was in God mode)
 

mrgoodstuff

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Spot on.....I have been poor as fvck before (not now) and pulled 9's 10's consistently when I was a young private in the Army in 1989 I made 800 dollars a month that was basically just an alcohol fund.I loved when they would pay my way into a club and buy me drinks (I rarely spent a dime) and men who drove to the club in a brand new Mercedes with a suit on would be shocked their jaws would literally hit the floor that was the best feeling I ever experienced in my whole life (I felt like I was in God mode)
It is god mode .
 

Murk

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So many damaged or crazy women out there who wake up one day out of the blue deciding they want something completely different in life.
Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble but that was just the excuse they gave. You stopped fulfilling their needs, the problem was likely you, driving them away, now you've been red pilled and would probably have a better relationship, but alas, you've been traumatised by your beta ways.
 

Misterchaos

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When a man is successful/accomplished and confident he holds his head a certain way. Money itself does not attract women but the skillset / mindset that "most" develop when achieving such heights + game does attract women. Yeah you can be broke and bank 9's and 10's all day sure...but that's a horrible way to experience life.

Teach that guy with the Mercedes Red Leg mentioned earlier game or how to be outgoing and more than just a business guy and he will pull more.
 

zekko

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But you can see why... when men have had continually hammered into them that money is the aphrodisiac. It then becomes much more of a challenge to seduce a woman without those trappings of wealth.... and we love a challenge.
It's constantly hammered into men that being in shape and having big muscles and low body fat is an aphrodisiac also. But I don't see people saying "Don't go to the gym because we love a challenge". I don't see the difference between working for a better body and working for better finances - in both cases you should do them for yourself, not to get women.

Notice guys like Urbanyst or BigNeil start making a little money and then soliciting the forum that money gets you hot women.
Big Neil liked to spread that money around to women though, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that money can indirectly add to your confidence AND your status. You deny that money is a factor in attracting women, but I'm betting you would not be the person that you are had you been unsuccessful in making the money that you had. Mrgoodstuff likes to talk about how having sex affects the way you carry yourself. I'm saying being financially successful can have a similar effect.

I loved when they would pay my way into a club and buy me drinks (I rarely spent a dime) and men who drove to the club in a brand new Mercedes with a suit on would be shocked their jaws would literally hit the floor that was the best feeling I ever experienced in my whole life
You didn't happen to notice a guy in a Lamborghini there, did you? :)

By the way, I'll have what you're having. AND I'll take the money.
 

guru1000

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No question Zekko that money can be incidental to (or can buy under certain conditions) status, but it certainly is not a prerequisite.

I’d like to do away with promoting only our strengths as the be all end all approach and be more fluid in our thinking.
 

Breakfast

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Spot on.....I have been poor as fvck before (not now) and pulled 9's 10's consistently when I was a young private in the Army in 1989 I made 800 dollars a month that was basically just an alcohol fund.I loved when they would pay my way into a club and buy me drinks (I rarely spent a dime) and men who drove to the club in a brand new Mercedes with a suit on would be shocked their jaws would literally hit the floor that was the best feeling I ever experienced in my whole life (I felt like I was in God mode)
Were you standing outside the club with the hottest girls watching men in mercedes with suits on to see if they were watching you being paid for to get in? Usually people going into clubs aren't watching people to see if they notice them going in let alone noticing men in suits with their jaws dropped driving mercedes focused on them on a consistent basis.

You sure you weren't just inebriated off the nectar of the Gods?
 

Breakfast

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It's constantly hammered into men that being in shape and having big muscles and low body fat is an aphrodisiac also. But I don't see people saying "Don't go to the gym because we love a challenge". I don't see the difference between working for a better body and working for better finances - in both cases you should do them for yourself, not to get women.


Big Neil liked to spread that money around to women though, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that money can indirectly add to your confidence AND your status. You deny that money is a factor in attracting women, but I'm betting you would not be the person that you are had you been unsuccessful in making the money that you had. Mrgoodstuff likes to talk about how having sex affects the way you carry yourself. I'm saying being financially successful can have a similar effect.


You didn't happen to notice a guy in a Lamborghini there, did you? :)

By the way, I'll have what you're having. AND I'll take the money.
What about spending a lot of money on cosmetic surgery, hair implants, gym, clothes etc to improve looks and status in attracting 9s?

Money is a factor in all that. Its not being paid for with looks or status.
 

guru1000

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Were you standing outside the club with the hottest girls watching men in mercedes with suits on to see if they were watching you being paid for to get in? Usually people going into clubs aren't watching people to see if they notice them going in let alone noticing men in suits with their jaws dropped driving mercedes focused on them on a consistent basis.

You sure you weren't just inebriated off the nectar of the Gods?
Kind of like the way you watch Guru1000, creating 100+ handles to read his every post and sermon, and then show up to an oyster bar in NYC after 10 years of wishing to meet HIM, only to get stood up by HIM, sending you in a tailspin of striddling the GREAT One and Only's ball sack.

Release the Guru1000 stamp from your psyche. I promise you Life will be easier :)
 

Breakfast

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Kind of like the way you watch Guru1000, creating 100+ handles to read his every post and sermon, and then show up to an oyster bar in NYC after 10 years of wishing to meet HIM, only to get stood up by HIM, sending you in a tailspin of striddling the GREAT One and Only's ball sack.

Release the Guru1000 stamp from your psyche. I promise you Life will be easier :)
Did you PM the multi-millionaire quacks who couldn't tell what cosmetic surgery looked like and 9 + 9 = attraction the OLD Blueprint? You could have had your idol NN autograph it for them. 100+ handles must mean the guy is actually practicing abundance mentality and not just mentally masturdebating about it.

Buck up lil camper.
 

Breakfast

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Confidence is broad. Confidence in making money does little in attraction. Differently, the confidence in being able to attain hot women at will, that is the sub-communication of "I'll have another 9 at my door tomorrow morning, so behave yourself," is what is magnetically attractive to most women.
This advice seems like it was lifted from a Beyoncé song. Advocating cosmetic surgery, makeup, making yourself into a pretty man makes sense in this case.

You must not know 'bout me
You must not know 'bout me
I could have another you in a minute
Matter fact he'll be here in a minute, baby
You must not know 'bout me
You must not know 'bout me
I can have another you by tomorrow
So don't you ever for a second get
To thinking you're irreplaceable
 

AttackFormation

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This advice seems like it was lifted from a Beyoncé song. Advocating cosmetic surgery, makeup, making yourself into a pretty man makes sense in this case.

You must not know 'bout me
You must not know 'bout me
I could have another you in a minute
Matter fact he'll be here in a minute, baby
You must not know 'bout me
You must not know 'bout me
I can have another you by tomorrow
So don't you ever for a second get
To thinking you're irreplaceable
LOL.... please don't ban this guy.
 

ShadowFenix

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I’d like to do away with promoting only our strengths as the be all end all approach and be more fluid in our thinking.
Can you elaborate on this a little more? I'm not sure if anyone actually believes that improving yourself will fix everything, but it is by far the most effective thing you can do not just for women, but for your life.
 

oldmanofthesea

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Yeah, sorry to burst your bubble but that was just the excuse they gave. You stopped fulfilling their needs, the problem was likely you, driving them away, now you've been red pilled and would probably have a better relationship, but alas, you've been traumatised by your beta ways.
Your comment assumes that with tight game, a man can keep any woman he wants for as long as he wants and she will never leave him. We both know that isn't true. Attractive women have endless options and most of the younger ones have a tendency to leave relationships in order to seek out additional attention from fresh sources. Studies have proven women rate strange men as the same, or slightly more attractive than a familiar long-term sexual partner.

While I agree that many men need to spend more time focusing on themselves to understand how they were responsible for their failures so they can learn to improve themselves as opposed to playing the victim card and blaming everyone/everything else, I also don't think it's fair to take the stance that no matter what, 100% of the time, everything is totally the guy's fault. Especially if you don't know the specific circumstances.
 

guru1000

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Deesade, sure you can fight above your weight. But why would you want to? She will always knows she's better and will capitalize accordingly. Not a smart long-term strategy.

Hence ... get better.
 

zekko

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No question Zekko that money can be incidental to (or can buy under certain conditions) status, but it certainly is not a prerequisite.
Never said it was a prerequisite, in fact I said it isn't.
The only reason I brought it up is because (as I said) I think the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

Unless everyone wants to start a movement to remove the "M" from LMS, and we can just refer to LS from here on.
Or maybe we can start telling everyone to wear their oldest, most worn looking shows so women will think they're broke, if that's such a turn on.

with decent game, a guy can fairly easily punch at or above his weight consistently
This concept of "punching above your weight" is a dangerous one, though. If you think a girl is above your SMV, that's a form of pedestalizing, isn't it? Or at least an indicator of weak inner game? From a practical standpoint, if she really is too far above your SMV, that is likely to invite bad behavior (sh!t tests and the like). Great for a one night stand, but could be a problem mid to long term.

But if your game is really that good, I would say that raises your SMV anyway. In other words, you are what you date. But it still goes back to self improvement.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Never said it was a prerequisite, in fact I said it isn't.
The only reason I brought it up is because (as I said) I think the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

Unless everyone wants to start a movement to remove the "M" from LMS, and we can just refer to LS from here on.
Or maybe we can start telling everyone to wear their oldest, most worn looking shows so women will think they're broke, if that's such a turn on.


This concept of "punching above your weight" is a dangerous one, though. If you think a girl is above your SMV, that's a form of pedestalizing, isn't it? Or at least an indicator of weak inner game? From a practical standpoint, if she really is too far above your SMV, that is likely to invite bad behavior (sh!t tests and the like). Great for a one night stand, but could be a problem mid to long term.

But if your game is really that good, I would say that raises your SMV anyway. In other words, you are what you date. But it still goes back to self improvement.
"Above your weight" is kinda bull but we know what it means. If you were to try to mess with women on your level or above it's going to work best if you come from a position of ABUNDANCE. That means your having sex with women who desire you currently. YouYcan call them up right now and fvck without flaking . you might be punching "below your weight" but they add to your confidence . "Above your weight" is kinda bull cause they'll get with average looking or ugly dudes who have popularity or status in their circles . These girls aren't all that .

I keep asking bigdave17 to start having sex right now. He can start talking to "hot" chicks from a position of abundance.

"Hot" chicks do the same damn thing by having orbiters. You need the same armor to deal with those trifling hoez.
 

guru1000

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But if you're a male 10, and you're shagging female 8's, then that's essentially scraping the barrel. That's like me shagging fat girls and letting it go to my head.

Surely it would be you, in this scenario, that should do better - as you aren't appropriately leveraging your value in this dating market.

.
You don't have to fight below your weight, just fight close to. Remember, LT strategy is not smart when she knows she's better than you. With short-term, who cares, have fun.
Zekko said:
Unless everyone wants to start a movement to remove the "M" from LMS, and we can just refer to LS from here on.
Or maybe we can start telling everyone to wear their oldest, most worn looking shows so women will think they're broke, if that's such a turn on.
Initial Attraction really does not include the Money element, unfortunately. I state "unfortunately," because I prefer that it did. This, of course, assumes we're not referring to gold-diggers, strippers, or hookers.

However, in your being a LTR prospect, having wealth can be a huge advantage.

Regardless of the above, I do believe having wealth is more important than attracting women, so accumulating wealth should ideally be at the forefront of most men's LT goals.
 
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