A little perspective needed

[flowtheory]

Hey Guys,
So this isn’t the usual question which gets asked. So I’m curious about some perspectives as I’ve never really been in this situation before.

I’ve hung out with a new woman three times now. And again will this evening in thirty minutes which she suggested yesterday after I dropped her off after We spent the day together hiking, seeing a festival, and going out for dinner/drinks for her birthday all one on one.

At the beginning of our conversations it was stated by both of us that a relationship or hook up is not our goal. We both simply want to expand our social circle and have good connections. We met on tinder and even in her profile she states ‘no hook ups or relationships’. Which by the way she hasn’t even been on another tinder date and says she got really lucky by me being her first actual ‘date’ form OLD.

She just turned 31 two days ago. She’s from Italy and has been living here for 1.5 months rounded up. She’s attractive, nice body, smart, intelligent, kind, knows three languages, doesn’t like clinginess, values loyalty, is independent, has big goals, always offers to split things or pick up tabs, or even pitch for gas.

The more we hangout I sense we both have a sexual/romantic interest towards each other more than friends; as there is flirting, emotional openness, slight touching, laughing. If I hold my arm against hers she doesn’t move, if I touch her neck she doesn’t flinch, etc.
The conversations are very easy and enjoyable. No awkward pauses; comfortable silences. I’ve opened up about myself and she’s extremely insightful and also very supportive in the ideal senses of my career.

Now this is where I get a bit hung up. I have other plates spinning, so sex isnt in scarcity and I’m not developing oneitis because of lack of options. But I find myself being drawn to this woman in a greater sense. The connection without sex itself is actually fulfilling as our our hangouts have not involved any.
My main goal right now is to stay focused on me and keep building myself whilst expanding my social circle.

Question: She would be a terrific friend in many senses. Also a great partner in a new degree (based on how supportive, giving and smart she is). However I often want to grab her and kiss her, but I know I could get rejected in that process and maybe even create a massively awkward situation between us, which would potentially ruin a great connection which I value without the idea of sex involved and lose a great person.

Right now things are unraveling slowly, and she’s showing interest also asking to see me again and always is responsive when I’ve asked to go for hikes or grab a drink. Her signature in a lot of text is that yellow winking kiss face via iPhone. Which I find interesting as she, even being from Italy, doesn’t kiss me on the cheek in person. And she has also sent me a couple faces.

Do I risk it and ruin a potentially great and super supportive friendship? Or be passive in this situation and let it unravel as it may until all the cards are shown naturally?

Because in all honesty, I’m happy with both options.

 

[greatsnake]

Go for the kiss— if she doesn’t like it and a friendship is ended, move on.
However, it does seem like she likes you. Make the first move.

 

[Igetit!]

Hey Guys,
So this isn’t the usual question which gets asked. So I’m curious about some perspectives as I’ve never really been in this situation before.

I’ve hung out with a new woman three times now. And again will this evening in thirty minutes which she suggested yesterday after I dropped her off after We spent the day together hiking, seeing a festival, and going out for dinner/drinks for her birthday all one on one.

At the beginning of our conversations it was stated by both of us that a relationship or hook up is not our goal. We both simply want to expand our social circle and have good connections. We met on tinder and even in her profile she states ‘no hook ups or relationships’. Which by the way she hasn’t even been on another tinder date and says she got really lucky by me being her first actual ‘date’ form OLD.

She just turned 31 two days ago. She’s from Italy and has been living here for 1.5 months rounded up. She’s attractive, nice body, smart, intelligent, kind, knows three languages, doesn’t like clinginess, values loyalty, is independent, has big goals, always offers to split things or pick up tabs, or even pitch for gas.

The more we hangout I sense we both have a sexual/romantic interest towards each other more than friends; as there is flirting, emotional openness, slight touching, laughing. If I hold my arm against hers she doesn’t move, if I touch her neck she doesn’t flinch, etc.
The conversations are very easy and enjoyable. No awkward pauses; comfortable silences. I’ve opened up about myself and she’s extremely insightful and also very supportive in the ideal senses of my career.

Now this is where I get a bit hung up. I have other plates spinning, so sex isnt in scarcity and I’m not developing oneitis because of lack of options. But I find myself being drawn to this woman in a greater sense. The connection without sex itself is actually fulfilling as our our hangouts have not involved any.
My main goal right now is to stay focused on me and keep building myself whilst expanding my social circle.

Question: She would be a terrific friend in many senses. Also a great partner in a new degree (based on how supportive, giving and smart she is). However I often want to grab her and kiss her, but I know I could get rejected in that process and maybe even create a massively awkward situation between us, which would potentially ruin a great connection which I value without the idea of sex involved and lose a great person.

Right now things are unraveling slowly, and she’s showing interest also asking to see me again and always is responsive when I’ve asked to go for hikes or grab a drink. Her signature in a lot of text is that yellow winking kiss face via iPhone. Which I find interesting as she, even being from Italy, doesn’t kiss me on the cheek in person. And she has also sent me a couple faces.

Do I risk it and ruin a potentially great and super supportive friendship? Or be passive in this situation and let it unravel as it may until all the cards are shown naturally?

Because in all honesty, I’m happy with both options.

Hmmm......

I did have a couple of questions I wanted to ask,but I did a little digging and fount the answers for myself.

So this girl......who you have a great "NON-SEXUAL" connection with,but who despite that connection,you continually want to "grab and kiss".....she's the SAME GIRL who said,"You remind me of my father" to you....and is the same girl you had over to your place...ONE ON ONE...for 6 hours.....only to spend that whole time sitting on the couch,talking.


Any of you guys wanna break the news to him,or should I?

You're either there,or most likely will be there shortly.....unless something DRASTIC happens.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Real friends can make it past intimacy. So you got nothing to lose but someone who wanted to use you for attention.

 

[marmel75]

You go for what you want. If you are attracted to her you could never be just friends anyway. You will always be looking to get in her pants.

 

[marmel75]

Hmmm......

I did have a couple of questions I wanted to ask,but I did a little digging and fount the answers for myself.

So this girl......who you have a great "NON-SEXUAL" connection with,but who despite that connection,you continually want to "grab and kiss".....she's the SAME GIRL who said,"You remind me of my father" to you....and is the same girl you had over to your place...ONE ON ONE...for 6 hours.....only to spend that whole time sitting on the couch,talking.


Any of you guys wanna break the news to him,or should I?

You're either there,or most likely will be there shortly.....unless something DRASTIC happens.

Not necessarily. I think OP just needs to stop paying attention to what she said/wrote and go for what he wants. If she is into him all that sh!t she wrote will be justified away by her mind and she will go with it...

 

[Trump]

Do I risk it and ruin a potentially great and super supportive friendship? Or be passive in this situation and let it unravel as it may until all the cards are shown naturally?

Because in all honesty, I’m happy with both options.

Would you rather keep the potentially great and super supportive friendship and have her have acrobatic sex every night with a 6’1 hockey player?

Or would you rather be aggressive and know you laid all your cards on the table even if she rejects you?

Come on bro, if this hot chick tells you to go to hell and never talks to you again if you make a move, how much of a potentially great friend can she be?

 

[Spaz]

OP is just 2 passive.

And may I remind you or anyone here, there is no such thing as a platonic male-female friendship. Close acquaintances yes but not real friendship.

Don't be delusional.

As 4 ur situation, get aggressive and make a move, see the response, if positive then proceed, if not then move on.

 

[Igetit!]

Not necessarily. I think OP just needs to stop paying attention to what she said/wrote and go for what he wants.

I agree....he should go for what he wants.

The problem is,he doesn't know what he wants. Or he does know,but is too scared to make a concrete,straight forward decision and work towards it.

On the one hand he says....

The connection WITHOUT SEX itself is actually fulfilling

Then he goes on to talk about what a "terrific friend" she'd be.

Then after he talks about their great NON-sexual connection and how good of a friend she'd be,he goes....

However I OFTEN want to grab her and kiss her

He starts talking about his desire to grab and kiss her....which,IS SEXUAL. Then after all that,he goes.....

I’m happy with both options.

So he says he'd be happy with BOTH options.....that is,just being her friend,or getting sexual and being MORE than friends.

That WILL NOT work. It's like driving...if you want to go left,you turn the wheel to the left. If you want to go right,you steer the wheel to the right.


He won't make a clear cut decision about which one he wants. He won't "steer" towards the friend or the sex (even though HE KNOWS HE WANTS THE SEX). He's basically just taken his hands off the wheel and goes,"Oh well.....whatever happens happens.....I'll be happy either way".

He's not being a MAN here....not going for what he wants. And the problem with that is,if HE WON'T make a decision......the girl's EMOTIONS will do it FOR HIM. Since he's acting more like a buddy than a MAN who's sexually attracted to a WOMAN,the chick's emotions won't sense any "spark" or "chemistry" with him,but since she still enjoys their hangouts,bike rides,and sitting up all night on the couch talking to one another,HER EMOTIONS will friendzone him.

If he just wants to be her friend,then fine....be her friend. But be it cause YOU CHOOSE TO.......not cause you had to "settle for it" cause she rejected you first.

 

[lizardking82]

Common, man. This is textbook stuff. You want her. Go for what you want, always. Not just with her, with anything in life, in general.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

"No hook-ups" is just slvt defense mechanism.

She's setting you up to be an orbiter, maybe unconsciously, maybe consciously.

If you like her, go for it and make a move. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, you can still be friends if you really feel that's what you want to do, and if she can't get over your making a move on her then you just move on - no big. Do you REALLY need her as a friend so badly that it isn't worth the risk of making a move and going for what you want?

 

[flowtheory]

Okay so this is what happened..

The night we went out for the day (Saturday), and I ended up dropping her off at home after the dinner, she sounded like she was going to ask something, but then didn’t. But said in need to watch the Italian movie with an actual Italian. And I said ‘yep’.
Anyways so I’m driving home and she send this text:
“flowtheory, I was thinking...if you want we can see the movie tomorrow night. It’s just that you said that Sunday night is your “me time” and I don’t wanna intrude (blush emoji) Thank you again for today (kiss emoji)”

I respond back saying sounds good and for her to come over for 4:30. She gets here then. She came with a bottle of wine, like the first time, and we sit and have a drink before I make ya some food.
As some things are boiling I sit down on the couch with her and chill for a bit. I noticed a ring she was wearing and grabbed her hand and held it, to which she didn’t pull it back. And as I was asking about it I was still holding her hand... But! Shortly after that she says “I have to put something out here” and in my mind I was like “yea this is definitely about the friendship talk” so I naturally start to laugh a bit.

(From what I can remember but it’s all jumbled together a bit) So she starts off with.. *note it’s all pretty lighthearted and not heavy serious*

Her : “I have to put it out there, and this is just friendship right? Like you’re not expecting sex?”
Me: “haha what?! Expecting sex. What are you talking about?”
Her: “my roommate was asking about us. And she thinks all these hangouts have been dates. Like the hike, the dinner and hanging out all day yesterday and now again today.. And she thinks you might be expecting sex. Are you expecting that?”
Me: “haha you’re roommate doesn’t even know our circumstances, and I it’s been both of us initiating hangouts. But no. I don’t have expectations. Especially with believing a woman should be giving me sex.”
Her: “so this is friendship then? And not what she’s thinking?”
Me: “you know what me and you have; our connection, and I don’t think we’ve been leading each other on sexually; or I have been. So it’s better if you trust what’s in front of you rather than taking unsolicited advice from someone who met me for a second.”
— pause —
Me: “if anything I thought you liked me. You were sending kiss faces and that”.
Her: “ohhh... I usually send that to a lot of people. I’m Italian.”
Me: “yea I figured, because it wasnt congruent with your in-person behaviour and.. cultural differences, I suppose. But here I think it could be misinterpreted... For future reference.”

And after this I kind of backed down and denied that I was slightly crushing on her. Haha.. however. I started to play with it all and tease her and tell her I knew it was friendship from the first ‘date’ immediately and she seemed to get a little excited like “what?!” Almost like she was stunned.

After we talked about this for about 30 minutes total - while we ate - I kept teasing her for most of the night. Then we watched the Italian movie and talked afterwards while listening to the rain in the darkness hahah.

I know I KNOW! Should I have just been trabsparent? Maybe. Should I have been okay with totally losing her? Maybe.

The thing is this: she’s an excellent person. And we connect super well. Like this is a super rarity. And I value that.
And even as we talked further during the rain and, even in the last outtings, she’s told me she ended a serious relationship 6 months ago (the guy was supposed to move to America with her, but wussed out last second). And now she’s healing from it all and pursuing her goals here.
She’s stated she doesn’t at all want a relationship or a fling and would maybe only condisider a one off one night stand with someone who she would never see again. Like a vacation sex kind of deal.
So I mean, I get it. I really do. She’s still emotionally healing from a previous relationship and needs to do some self work.
She’s not in the right place mentally or emotionally. So this communicates to me that if I even chose to walk down that road with her, she wouldn’t maybe be able to fully give or receive. And there could be a lot of liabilities.

Plus, I have self work to do also (career wise). So footing bills and all that would be a bit tricky. I’m not the man I need to be and one a woman of value deserves? Maybe that’s self defeatist. But i know how women are.

So losing a new great friend did seem too risky. But I can’t help but think she probably feels the same way, like she likes me but at the same time the timing isn’t right.

@Igetit! said it well. I don’t really know what I want and because of this lack of action and direction it seemed like her emotions had to choose this.

Last thing: I asked her to describe her ideal guy.. she said: “smart, funny, kind.” Then I said physically; she said “taller than me, dark hair, light eyes - blue or green, good smile”. In the dark as the rain drizzled away.. I was thinking.. “so.. me?”
Then she asked “why are you single?” But I turned the questions round and asked her.

It’s complicated. But not really. I sort of friendzoned it all myself. But Like I said.. should I have made a move? Maybe.

Also forgot to mention.. after the talk, the movie, and all that, she was on her phone because her niece sent her a panda photo from a zoo, so I came close to see, and I was like really close to her watching (from behind by her neck/ear, and she didn’t move!
And earlier she had accidentally spilt some wine on my banket during the movie (which I saw coming) and after the spill I went to feel the damp blanket and I put my hand on hers and held it there for a bit, to test her waters, and once again she didn’t move, she essentially let me hold her hand from the outside.

I don’t think she wants an orbiter but if she wanted me to make a move or wanted more why the heck would she have brought up that roommate conversation.

 

[ohrein]

That conversation was her pushing you to make a move. You played it well to start with saying you're just going with the flow but I think you missed the obvious subtext that this conversation entailed. She is confused by your behavior because you are not leading. You're treating her like a girlfriend but too afraid to play your hand. You're acting alpha in every sense but the most important and she has no idea what's going on. This is why it's important to make a move far earlier. You're pushing your luck with her attraction at this point and you may have even blown it! If you have any desire to date this woman you need to make a move at the very next possible time. Get her alone at night again and just do it. She'll probably push back initially because you confused her. This will be a sh1t test. Just tell her you realized you had missed what was right in front of you and try to kiss her again. If she hard rejects you, just friend zone yourself with her and continue being her friend. You won't lose her as a friend.

 

[flowtheory]

That conversation was her pushing you to make a move. You played it well to start with saying you're just going with the flow but I think you missed the obvious subtext that this conversation entailed. She is confused by your behavior because you are not leading. You're treating her like a girlfriend but too afraid to play your hand. You're acting alpha in every sense but the most important and she has no idea what's going on. This is why it's important to make a move far earlier. You're pushing your luck with her attraction at this point and you may have even blown it! If you have any desire to date this woman you need to make a move at the very next possible time. Get her alone at night again and just do it. She'll probably push back initially because you confused her. This will be a sh1t test. Just tell her you realized you had missed what was right in front of you and try to kiss her again. If she hard rejects you, just friend zone yourself with her and continue being her friend. You won't lose her as a friend.

If she was wanting a bit more, wouldn’t she have not eluded to saying she was just after friendship during the talk, or steer it in that direction.
And her also telling me she’s fairly fresh out of a relationship and stuff.

One of the things that got me initially, was that after our first hangout when I dropped her off.. this was our conversation:
Her: “okay, so how does this work now?”
Me: “haha how does what work?”
Her: “ugh! Don’t laugh at me haha I’m new to this whole tinder thing! Do we like hangout again or I message you, whaat?”
Me: “well if you want to hangout again, we will do that. It’s simple! Hah”
Her “okay”
Me: “message me your number and we will get off tinder; we’re too good for it anyways”
Her “hahah! sure okay I will do that. But I’m not looking for a relationship, just friends to do things with”
Me: “sure.”

Then we hugged and she left my car. So from that point forward I was like “well I didn’t even really think this was a date, and I am just wanting to build my social circle, but we defiantly did have a connection”
And to which she actually forgot her phone in my car. So I got a quarter the way home only to hear it ringing, so I turned around and dropped it off again and she said she was embarrassed. But I was chill about it. And just about every time we’ve hung out she’s saying she has had wonderful times. New friends don’t do this do they?
I’m simply getting mixed signals with her telling me about her past and wanting to find friends but also receiving wink texts and kiss faces and huge thank you’s Via text

 

[R.U.G.]

If you do not sh!t, then get off the pot. You'll ruin your chance to hit it. I'd say start with some light keno and move on from there start to caress her and go for the kiss. Invite her over if you guys live close for dinner and Netflix, and proceed. If you do not do this soon, you'll be off of her sexual radar.

 

[Dingo]

WHO DARES WINS.... YOU FRIENDZONED YOURSELF...

 

[R.U.G.]

WHO DARES WINS.... YOU FRIENDZONED YOURSELF...

View attachment 1493

That's for sh!t sure. Flow control, a bit disappointed in you. I would had thought you'd already be on her like bears sh!tting in the woods. You better jump on this b!tch, and like tomorrow.

 

[marmel75]

This is pretty lame. You dont waste valuable time playing tiddlywinks with women.

There are no mixed signals. Only uninterested women or guys who will not make a move to find out.

 

[MrWood]

That conversation was her pushing you to make a move. You played it well to start with saying you're just going with the flow but I think you missed the obvious subtext that this conversation entailed. She is confused by your behavior because you are not leading.

on point 100% = you friendzoned yourself
she literally begged you not to JBF, asked you 2x (at least) and you said "we are just friends"

 

[Dingo]

You speak Italian ?

Sembri quasi perfetto … l’unica cosa che posso vedere che è sbagliato è le tue labbra … non sono miei toccante.

Fottimi se mi sbaglio, ma vuoi venire a letto con me, no?