Banishing my Beta

[CamCam]

It's funny; taking the red pill has no immediate effect. It takes time. It's more like a slow awakening for me.

As I'm becoming more aware; I've noticed things that are really surprising to me. I've noticed, that beta-me has created an environment around myself that is NOT conducive to being alpha, and I've realized how important it is that I change that, if I have any chance at manifesting my inner Chad.

I grew up with three sisters, an overly agreeable mother, and a Dad that taught me next to nothing - being that he worked 70-80 hours a week when I needed him the most. Along the way, I learned all sorts of feminine traits that I'm only now able to see.

Since taking the red pill, I've:

- Noticed that a lot of the music I had been listening to was crap like Sam Smith, Ed Sheeran. I'm changing that as we speak
- I spent a lot of time helping women; I now believe I was doing that in hopes of being appreciated and then ****ed. I cut ties with those women now
- I had a god damned oil diffuser in my bedroom! It's gone now, I threw the damned thing out
- I had a couple of female friends that were using me as a beta orbiter; they will not re enter my life (clothed)
- I'm decided to spend less time with my sisters and mother, and more time with my Father
- I even typed messages like a girl, with emoticons and used too many punctuation. Finished with that

I think it's important to learn game theory, and behavioral mating evolution. But we also have to remember to create an environment around ourselves that supports and nourishes Alpha traits and behaviors.


Have any of you had similar experiences?

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

It's the Anima. Jung refers to the Anima being the feminine aspect of the males psyche.

Disassemble the beta is not necessarily a solution. It is a cog in a much bigger system. It is likely all the more beneficial to acknowledge it for what it is. Embrace it. Know where it comes from and why you no longer feel the need to embody it.

If you look at the negative connotation of what is deemed to be toxic masculinity, women are embracing their animus, the masculine aspect of their psyche. I question the merit and the authenticity of it. More social engineering is pedaling to masculine women, high kills, not feminine, cannot cook or clean but has a women's study degree and massive debt to go with it. She doesn't want kids today. Is Chad's booty call today. Tomorrow, she's the crazy cat lady who wish she had kids. Women are following the beaten path but, so are men. Men are marrying cratered SMV, are raising Chad's baby, and playing house with Chad's booty call.

What pickup and the red pill teach you is, how ruthless the feminine is, and how the feminine biological strategy evolves based upon her ability or inability to compete.

The quest is for self knowledge. Evolve. Adapt. Overcome.

 

[Misterchaos]

No shame bro if you enjoy Ed Sheeran listen to Ed Sheeran lol. I even listen to Justin Bieber from time to time no f*** given. Oh yeah I light candles too....man scents though like bourbon and whisky...vanilla too. Do what ya want and still evolve.

 

[Red Legg]

- I even typed messages like a girl, with emoticons and used too many punctuation. Finished with that

Yes...!! no man uses god-damned emoji's....

 

[CamCam]

It's the Anima. Jung refers to the Anima being the feminine aspect of the males psyche.

Disassemble the beta is not necessarily a solution. It is a cog in a much bigger system. It is likely all the more beneficial to acknowledge it for what it is. Embrace it. Know where it comes from and why you no longer feel the need to embody it.

If you look at the negative connotation of what is deemed to be toxic masculinity, women are embracing their animus, the masculine aspect of their psyche. I question the merit and the authenticity of it. More social engineering is pedaling to masculine women, high kills, not feminine, cannot cook or clean but has a women's study degree and massive debt to go with it. She doesn't want kids today. Is Chad's booty call today. Tomorrow, she's the crazy cat lady who wish she had kids. Women are following the beaten path but, so are men. Men are marrying cratered SMV, are raising Chad's baby, and playing house with Chad's booty call.

What pickup and the red pill teach you is, how ruthless the feminine is, and how the feminine biological strategy evolves based upon her ability or inability to compete.

The quest is for self knowledge. Evolve. Adapt. Overcome.

You've got it DEEZ

And I don't think these aspects are all necessarily negative; but I do recognize that I need to remove them (temporarily perhaps, but I'll have to sense whether that is the case or not later) and solidify a masculine foundation before entertaining the Anima.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[CamCam]

No shame bro if you enjoy Ed Sheeran listen to Ed Sheeran lol. I even listen to Justin Bieber from time to time no f*** given. Oh yeah I light candles too....man scents though like bourbon and whisky...vanilla too. Do what ya want and still evolve.

When I'm more sure of myself, Ill indulge in the Bieber hahah Thanks bro

 

[CBear]

As a child, the man I hated the most constantly beat the **** out of me. I hate thinking about it. Always was bruised and it was common to get choked. I remember being a bloody mess as a teenager when he punched me in the face. It was his idea of discipline. There were always extremely heated arguments in the house between my parents, always so much aggression. Despite this, my mom stayed with him. If they separated, she always accepted him back. Although this was the case, she always told me to treat women well and to basically treat them like a princess. I believed her. In high school, I was a depressed looking, skinny, ugly, awkward mess. Girls were never an option. After high school, my looks started to blossom very slowly. I had girls ask me out. I went on these dates buying them sh1t and acting like a beta. Of course they wanted nothing to do with me after. I was very confused with what I was told and what I've seen. Had so much anger back then and to this day that I became obsessed with the gym. Fast forward a couple years and initially I'm doing fine with girls. They wanna bang, we make out, we fvck but it just wasn't good. I wanted to see them multiple times a week and buy them gifts and treat them right. These were all flings, they lost all their interest in me very very soon after the initial attraction. When examining my parents' marriage and what I've experienced, I started to put all the pieces together.
I was aware of sosuave and the redpill during this time but I never read into it. I decided to join SS and become part of this community and it has helped in many areas of my life. Although I will always have a lot of anger inside of me due to my past, I am starting to become satisfied with life and have become much more confident with a good frame. I now realize that there's no reason to hate women. It's just biology and the west has exacerbated their biology. Besides, having to deal with women wanting to talk with you every second and become addicted with wanting to see you while becoming red pill aware has helped me realize that it's annoying anyways. Ignoring them only makes them act as cringey as many guys do.

I am still learning but this forum has many great people who have gone through everything and want to help men like me who didn't have any good male figures growing up.

I am extremely motivated and this is what I will use to try and succeed in all areas of life. I hope to one day become a role model for guys who join this forum looking for help just like I did.

I wish you good luck as well op, we will make it!

 

[CamCam]

As a child, the man I hated the most constantly beat the **** out of me. I hate thinking about it. Always was bruised and it was common to get choked. I remember being a bloody mess as a teenager when he punched me in the face. It was his idea of discipline. There were always extremely heated arguments in the house between my parents, always so much aggression. Despite this, my mom stayed with him. If they separated, she always accepted him back. Although this was the case, she always told me to treat women well and to basically treat them like a princess. I believed her. In high school, I was a depressed looking, skinny, ugly, awkward mess. Girls were never an option. After high school, my looks started to blossom very slowly. I had girls ask me out. I went on these dates buying them sh1t and acting like a beta. Of course they wanted nothing to do with me after. I was very confused with what I was told and what I've seen. Had so much anger back then and to this day that I became obsessed with the gym. Fast forward a couple years and initially I'm doing fine with girls. They wanna bang, we make out, we fvck but it just wasn't good. I wanted to see them multiple times a week and buy them gifts and treat them right. These were all flings, they lost all their interest in me very very soon after the initial attraction. When examining my parents' marriage and what I've experienced, I started to put all the pieces together.
I was aware of sosuave and the redpill during this time but I never read into it. I decided to join SS and become part of this community and it has helped in many areas of my life. Although I will always have a lot of anger inside of me due to my past, I am starting to become satisfied with life and have become much more confident with a good frame. I now realize that there's no reason to hate women. It's just biology and the west has exacerbated their biology. Besides, having to deal with women wanting to talk with you every second and become addicted with wanting to see you while becoming red pill aware has helped me realize that it's annoying anyways. Ignoring them only makes them act as cringey as many guys do.

I am still learning but this forum has many great people who have gone through everything and want to help men like me who didn't have any good male figures growing up.

I am extremely motivated and this is what I will use to try and succeed in all areas of life. I hope to one day become a role model for guys who join this forum looking for help just like I did.

I wish you good luck as well op, we will make it!

THANK YOU for sharing that CBear, and I'm so sorry that you had the childhood that you did.

We have a lot of similarities. From 15-34 I thought I would win the day with romance and sincere affection. I just ended up pushing girls away. Time after time after time. While in Norway, I was with and married to a Norwegian fashion model, and I TRIED SO hard, but the harder I tried, the more she despised me. After deciding to divorce her, I dated a lot. But always to the same affect. Girls would tell me I'm handsome, they would chase me, but then I would instantly fall in love with them and they would lose interest for me almost immediately. They would begin to treat me with total disregard. It took me such a long long time to figure out what was going on. It is so difficult for us men, to be told that we should be kind and moral, treat ladies right and they will magically appear for us. All the while, being attracted to the exact opposite traits. It's cognitive dissonance, and maybe even gas-lighting to some degree. I literally felt like I was going crazy for a period. I was being told that I was nice, handsome, successful etc etc, but after moving to the US, NO women would give me any attention. I couldn't for the life of me figure out how I was repelling these women. I had a few dates, all disasters. I had girls tell me I wasn't sassy enough; after taking them out to expensive meals. Or even ugly girls telling me that I wasn't their type, after a first date.

In the short time I'm actively been trying to reverse my life-long mindset, I've been making fantastic progress. But more than anything, I'm just happy not to be confused anymore. I'm elated to just KNOW what I've been doing wrong, to know that I'm not crazy, and now there are clear steps to take to bring my life back into focus.

Thank God for the manosphere, for this website, and for the literature that is pouring onto the scene. I would like to believe that I would never throw myself off a bridge, but there are guys out there miserable enough to do it - and the antivenom is now becoming available to the masses.

Long live the Chad

 

[ohrein]

I don't like the terminology of "Chad" as I think that particular concept is the guy who doesn't give a fvck in an unethical way. Let me be clear in that you shouldn't give a fvck about whether or not you have a woman, but not in a negative way. It should come from a place of strength, not weakness. You should be building a life in which you're happy being single. You have some great friends, you have your career and purpose driving you forward and you have a set of hobbies you use to wind down. The not giving a fvck then comes from strength. You treat women with respect and love when they are demonstrating it and reciprocating it themselves but you hard pass on them when they're not, not out of bitterness, but out of awareness that you truly deserve better because you're a great person worthy of more.

I've posted about this a lot but I'll go again and maybe discover more. When you have your first few interactions with women as red pill aware that function exactly as red pill theory suggests, it flicks a switch for you. The temptation then is to become "Chad", the epitome of alpha. I did it, many guys on here still do it, and at a guess I'd say almost every guy who discovers red pill does it. For some guys, all they desire is sex and so they seek no further advancement. But it is my belief that most guys will not be satisfied with a never ending rotation of plates and playing this character indefinitely. Firstly because in my experience, and that's based off observations of dozens of men in real life, the "Chads" attract primarily damaged women with attachment issues and personality disorders. When I was only alpha, the number of women I had access to went up but the quality went way down. This took me five years to figure out because I was blinded by my "success". Secondly, I found myself becoming unhappy with who I was. I don't want to go through life looking at people as purely biological beings as I believe this view is false.

Now I'm not saying my views should be anyone's goal. If you turn to red pill and are satisfied with your interactions with women, more power to you. I won't judge you and you have no reason to consider my opinion. But if at any point on your red pill journey you find yourself dissatisfied with the women you're dating or who you've become, it means you've calibrated too far the other way. Game should feel natural and effortless. If you're constantly considering what "the alpha" would do, you're operating as an extension of an ideology and not as an individual. You will feel like this for the first few years either way, but it's important to calibrate as soon as possible.

My game now is effortless. I'm kind and loving in my LTR and she is a woman who deserves it. She treats me very well. But I don't compromise my purpose and I don't compromise on my self respect. These are my non-negotiable's. Any cheating? Done. Verbal disrespect or drama? The alpha comes out, "If you don't want to be here, leave". "If you can't speak to me as a human being, leave". If she needs direction, I don't um and ahh, I make a decision, I lead. But if she has ideas and desires and expresses them, why wouldn't I engage with them? The resulting relationship so far has been easy. She's never disrespected me to the point where I've needed to put my foot down, but every couple of months she'll throw a little test out to see if I'll switch gears, after which she tends to jump me in bed, haha. It feels like a natural masculine/feminine relationship. One that simply wouldn't exist if I was stuck in my old mentality of pure alpha.

My understanding as of now is that feminine women crave emotional connection and simply will not stick with a man who cannot provide masculine emotional connection that comes from strength, with the exception of mentally unhealthy women who are similar to beta men in that they don't think they can do better. If you desire more than just sex, and/or a healthy feminine woman (they do exist) you will need to calibrate yourself with more nuance. If you find yourself dissatisfied with your experiences with women, look inward. What kind of women are your behaviors attracting? What kind of women are you pursuing? Don't blindly be alpha because it creates success.

Be analytical.

Be the best you.

 

[BeExcellent]

I'm kind and loving in my LTR and she is a woman who deserves it. She treats me very well. But I don't compromise my purpose and I don't compromise on my self respect. These are my non-negotiable's. Any cheating? Done. Verbal disrespect or drama? The alpha comes out, "If you don't want to be here, leave". "If you can't speak to me as a human being, leave". If she needs direction, I don't um and ahh, I make a decision, I lead. But if she has ideas and desires and expresses them, why wouldn't I engage with them? The resulting relationship so far has been easy. She's never disrespected me to the point where I've needed to put my foot down, but every couple of months she'll throw a little test out to see if I'll switch gears, after which she tends to jump me in bed, haha. It feels like a natural masculine/feminine relationship. One that simply wouldn't exist if I was stuck in my old mentality of pure alpha.

My understanding as of now is that feminine women crave emotional connection and simply will not stick with a man who cannot provide masculine emotional connection that comes from strength, with the exception of mentally unhealthy women who are similar to beta men in that they don't think they can do better. If you desire more than just sex, and/or a healthy feminine woman (they do exist) you will need to calibrate yourself with more nuance. If you find yourself dissatisfied with your experiences with women, look inward. What kind of women are your behaviors attracting? What kind of women are you pursuing? Don't blindly be alpha because it creates success.

Be analytical.

Be the best you.

Advice from the old lady: I wanted to concur wholeheartedly with @ohrein and his points above...really his whole post is gold, but I wanted to particularly and emphatically agree with the two paragraphs above.

I see men who go through the process of red-pill and the script generally goes something like this:

1. Disney idealist growing up. Buys into Beauty and the Beast/Cinderella/Snow White fantasy of relationship so thinks he needs to be Prince Charming

2. AFC doormat who is too "nice guy" and runs off women through Prince Charming nice with an agenda even if he's initially attractive (NOTE: Some men actually DO find women young who are still buying into being a woman worth being nice to...so you'll see some success stories among men who pair off young with young women who have good values and strive to fulfill the traditional role)

3. Awakening through life experience of rejection and/or the disillusionment of real life and struggle hitting his relationship or his attempts to woo women. Finds out that often the Disney ideal he grew up embracing was a fantasy. Bitterness and anger often ensue.

4. Goes from AFC to Ass Hole. Takes back power, learns to use women, learns to be selfish; finds that this attitude of self preservation is appealing to women in a "bad boy" way.

5. Becomes more nuanced as an Ass Hole, begins to evolve more toward incorporating Prince Charming into his interactions but to serve his own agenda. Achieves sexual abundance and a Casanova mind-set...until he finds that the Casanova existence is ALSO a fantasy, in its emptiness, shallowness, vacuousness and lack of human connection. This is the player or playboy archetype in full manifestation. Some men remain in this frame for a long time, a few for a lifetime.

6. Disillusionment with the player archetype sets in. Finds the constant rotation of STRs and new conquests unfulfulling, begins to realize he needs/wants something more in his life and that he will have to invest emotionally to get the human connection and fulfillment he needs. This stage will ALWAYS correspond to development and strengthening of a man's self esteem and inner self love & value. As his inner self awareness and self love strengthen, his need for the external validation of the conquest lessens. He learns to value quality over quantity and character over appearance in a woman. His standards go up.

7. He becomes the "great guy". A well rounded man who comes from a place of strength and inner conviction, who knows what he is willing to accept and what he is unwilling to accept, and he seeks women who have a character similar to his own. He is vulnerable from a place of strength and self love and gives because he chooses to do so, as he understands the risks and the rewards. He looks in the mirror at himself and he holds himself and his partner accountable to a high standard. He becomes more interested in depth of connection and has developed to a place where he is capable of deep commitment because he is committed to himself and he embraces his role as the leader.

I think @ohrein and @zekko and @Atom Smasher and @TheProspect and others here on SS have reached this final stage of personal development, and so have others. I think there are men here like @Glassguy and @Howiestern and @Macaframalama and @Amante Silvestre who have arrived at a place of self awareness such that they will recognize the right type of woman if she shows up in their lives although they still are enjoying the playboy MO in the meantime. I'm dating such a man myself. He's recognizing that he has chosen up until now physical appearance over everything else and he's found himself wanting for other characteristics that beauty alone cannot provide. He's been objectified, and he's found the disillusionment at the end of the sex on demand continuum. He's deconstructing and reconstructing the expectations and priorities that he wants in his life, and it's not been an easy journey for him (or for us for that matter), but he's seeing with new eyes in many ways and he's growing and embracing himself fully in the process; becoming more self accepting.

He is examining habits, self destructive behaviors (drinking, promiscuity, narcissism) and he's facing the mirror to really see what's there rather than just to admire himself. It's a rather awesome process to observe I must say. And as he does this he moves toward relationship, not away. He becomes more vulnerable, not less. And he extends more trust and more investment. And he does so with courage, for he is in unfamiliar waters.

It is not easy to patch the holes and the injuries we end up with in our psyche. It is a painful process but it can heal you and strengthen you if you submit to the process. And through the process one becomes forged in fire, like the Samurai's sword. And you become a man of value and a man of character; a man who wants for nothing; a man who women want. You evolve into the prize in the true sense of the word and you'll find yourself with choices you never imagined would be possible in your AFC existence.

 

[CamCam]

I don't like the terminology of "Chad" as I think that particular concept is the guy who doesn't give a fvck in an unethical way. Let me be clear in that you shouldn't give a fvck about whether or not you have a woman, but not in a negative way. It should come from a place of strength, not weakness. You should be building a life in which you're happy being single. You have some great friends, you have your career and purpose driving you forward and you have a set of hobbies you use to wind down. The not giving a fvck then comes from strength. You treat women with respect and love when they are demonstrating it and reciprocating it themselves but you hard pass on them when they're not, not out of bitterness, but out of awareness that you truly deserve better because you're a great person worthy of more.

I've posted about this a lot but I'll go again and maybe discover more. When you have your first few interactions with women as red pill aware that function exactly as red pill theory suggests, it flicks a switch for you. The temptation then is to become "Chad", the epitome of alpha. I did it, many guys on here still do it, and at a guess I'd say almost every guy who discovers red pill does it. For some guys, all they desire is sex and so they seek no further advancement. But it is my belief that most guys will not be satisfied with a never ending rotation of plates and playing this character indefinitely. Firstly because in my experience, and that's based off observations of dozens of men in real life, the "Chads" attract primarily damaged women with attachment issues and personality disorders. When I was only alpha, the number of women I had access to went up but the quality went way down. This took me five years to figure out because I was blinded by my "success". Secondly, I found myself becoming unhappy with who I was. I don't want to go through life looking at people as purely biological beings as I believe this view is false.

Now I'm not saying my views should be anyone's goal. If you turn to red pill and are satisfied with your interactions with women, more power to you. I won't judge you and you have no reason to consider my opinion. But if at any point on your red pill journey you find yourself dissatisfied with the women you're dating or who you've become, it means you've calibrated too far the other way. Game should feel natural and effortless. If you're constantly considering what "the alpha" would do, you're operating as an extension of an ideology and not as an individual. You will feel like this for the first few years either way, but it's important to calibrate as soon as possible.

My game now is effortless. I'm kind and loving in my LTR and she is a woman who deserves it. She treats me very well. But I don't compromise my purpose and I don't compromise on my self respect. These are my non-negotiable's. Any cheating? Done. Verbal disrespect or drama? The alpha comes out, "If you don't want to be here, leave". "If you can't speak to me as a human being, leave". If she needs direction, I don't um and ahh, I make a decision, I lead. But if she has ideas and desires and expresses them, why wouldn't I engage with them? The resulting relationship so far has been easy. She's never disrespected me to the point where I've needed to put my foot down, but every couple of months she'll throw a little test out to see if I'll switch gears, after which she tends to jump me in bed, haha. It feels like a natural masculine/feminine relationship. One that simply wouldn't exist if I was stuck in my old mentality of pure alpha.

My understanding as of now is that feminine women crave emotional connection and simply will not stick with a man who cannot provide masculine emotional connection that comes from strength, with the exception of mentally unhealthy women who are similar to beta men in that they don't think they can do better. If you desire more than just sex, and/or a healthy feminine woman (they do exist) you will need to calibrate yourself with more nuance. If you find yourself dissatisfied with your experiences with women, look inward. What kind of women are your behaviors attracting? What kind of women are you pursuing? Don't blindly be alpha because it creates success.

Be analytical.

Be the best you.

ohrein,

I wholeheartedly agree with every point you made. Perhaps "Chad" is something different to each of us? For me, someone who has been anxious, worried too much about what other people think, submissive etc - being Chad is a sort of letting go; learning to think for myself, "self concern and self priority." But never at the expense of my ethics, I hope you understand that. I love the idea of Chad (maybe I haven't fully realized what exactly that is to others hah!) because it allows me to think critically about how someone other than myself (I've been so wrong for so long) interacts with the world; Chad, being someone who gets more of what he wants out of life. I want to be me of course, but I need to stop being the worse version of myself first. I need to manifest the Chad, until I understand my errors, and then be the true version of myself - if that makes sense. An ego death, before the rebuilding, and it is nice to have a model to look to.

You know how the stock market is often over-bought, or over-sold? Eventually it always reverts to the mean; fair value. Think of me as being "oversold" right now, and while it would be great to inch my way towards "fair value" and stop right on the spot, I don't think it will be likely. I think that's why a lot of people, yourself included, go too alpha for awhile, before finding your happy spot, e.g positive masculinity/mature masculinity. I will probably do the same, I'd imagine.

My goal isn't lays, but I know I need more experience with woman before I dare attempt a LTR again. If I don't have a solid foundation in place, I know for a fact that I will revert to a beta mindset. I need a lot of experience; and of every type. I need the ups and downs, I need to be overly ****y so that I know how to be just right. I need to be disconnected, so that I know the sweet spot for how much affection to give - lest I over romanticize a female again and turn her away from me.

Thank you so much for your insight, its appreciated and I will keep it close, but I will say that I think an overcompensation (to some degree) on my part is an inevitability. The lessons we should have learned when we were young are that much more messy at an older age. I'll do my best sir

 

[CamCam]

Advice from the old lady: I wanted to concur wholeheartedly with @ohrein and his points above...really his whole post is gold, but I wanted to particularly and emphatically agree with the two paragraphs above.

I see men who go through the process of red-pill and the script generally goes something like this:

1. Disney idealist growing up. Buys into Beauty and the Beast/Cinderella/Snow White fantasy of relationship so thinks he needs to be Prince Charming

2. AFC doormat who is too "nice guy" and runs off women through Prince Charming nice with an agenda even if he's initially attractive (NOTE: Some men actually DO find women young who are still buying into being a woman worth being nice to...so you'll see some success stories among men who pair off young with young women who have good values and strive to fulfill the traditional role)

3. Awakening through life experience of rejection and/or the disillusionment of real life and struggle hitting his relationship or his attempts to woo women. Finds out that often the Disney ideal he grew up embracing was a fantasy. Bitterness and anger often ensue.

4. Goes from AFC to Ass Hole. Takes back power, learns to use women, learns to be selfish; finds that this attitude of self preservation is appealing to women in a "bad boy" way.

5. Becomes more nuanced as an Ass Hole, begins to evolve more toward incorporating Prince Charming into his interactions but to serve his own agenda. Achieves sexual abundance and a Casanova mind-set...until he finds that the Casanova existence is ALSO a fantasy, in its emptiness, shallowness, vacuousness and lack of human connection. This is the player or playboy archetype in full manifestation. Some men remain in this frame for a long time, a few for a lifetime.

6. Disillusionment with the player archetype sets in. Finds the constant rotation of STRs and new conquests unfulfulling, begins to realize he needs/wants something more in his life and that he will have to invest emotionally to get the human connection and fulfillment he needs. This stage will ALWAYS correspond to development and strengthening of a man's self esteem and inner self love & value. As his inner self awareness and self love strengthen, his need for the external validation of the conquest lessens. He learns to value quality over quantity and character over appearance in a woman. His standards go up.

7. He becomes the "great guy". A well rounded man who comes from a place of strength and inner conviction, who knows what he is willing to accept and what he is unwilling to accept, and he seeks women who have a character similar to his own. He is vulnerable from a place of strength and self love and gives because he chooses to do so, as he understands the risks and the rewards. He looks in the mirror at himself and he holds himself and his partner accountable to a high standard. He becomes more interested in depth of connection and has developed to a place where he is capable of deep commitment because he is committed to himself and he embraces his role as the leader.

I think @ohrein and @zekko and @Atom Smasher and @TheProspect and others here on SS have reached this final stage of personal development, and so have others. I think there are men here like @Glassguy and @Howiestern and @Macaframalama and @Amante Silvestre who have arrived at a place of self awareness such that they will recognize the right type of woman if she shows up in their lives although they still are enjoying the playboy MO in the meantime. I'm dating such a man myself. He's recognizing that he has chosen up until now physical appearance over everything else and he's found himself wanting for other characteristics that beauty alone cannot provide. He's been objectified, and he's found the disillusionment at the end of the sex on demand continuum. He's deconstructing and reconstructing the expectations and priorities that he wants in his life, and it's not been an easy journey for him (or for us for that matter), but he's seeing with new eyes in many ways and he's growing and embracing himself fully in the process; becoming more self accepting.

He is examining habits, self destructive behaviors (drinking, promiscuity, narcissism) and he's facing the mirror to really see what's there rather than just to admire himself. It's a rather awesome process to observe I must say. And as he does this he moves toward relationship, not away. He becomes more vulnerable, not less. And he extends more trust and more investment. And he does so with courage, for he is in unfamiliar waters.

It is not easy to patch the holes and the injuries we end up with in our psyche. It is a painful process but it can heal you and strengthen you if you submit to the process. And through the process one becomes forged in fire, like the Samurai's sword. And you become a man of value and a man of character; a man who wants for nothing; a man who women want. You evolve into the prize in the true sense of the word and you'll find yourself with choices you never imagined would be possible in your AFC existence.

I love it; great points, and all so true. I'm probably at your point #3, moving to #4. But here is the question; do you think each person MUST progress through EACH point, to reach full masculine maturity? Or is it possible to be aware, progress more quickly through the negative zones, or skip them altogether? I really don't want to be angry, and already it is subsiding. My real anger lasted only a few weeks. Once I started getting the positive responses that I wanted, I started to smile again. Like I said earlier; the best part of taking the red pill for me was that the confusion is gone, the hopelessness is gone and there is a path I know I can take to the successes that I want. Do I want to have sex, absolutely. Do I want a sense of sexual abundance, you bet. Do I want to leave a path of emotional destruction in my wake, most definitely not.

You know how in the Matrix, after Neo had taken the red pill, he awakens in the ship, and they help him settle in to his new reality? We need an equivalent of that here in the manosphere. Your stages of awakening (akin to the stages of grief) will definitely help. Knowing what emotion that comes next is illuminating. Sometimes I worry that our overcompensation will only turn society against us. I'd rather them see us as the phoenix climbing out of the ashes of destroyed masculinity.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

I love that you threw out your oil diffuser and Ed Sheeran albums in a fit of red-pill rage. I can literally picture it in my mind. You just can't make that up.

Congrats on your awakening and it sounds like you are taking the right steps toward moving forward and making progress. It is a long journey.

I grew up in a similar situation as you, surrounded by women with no male role models. It definitely took it's toll. However, for whatever reason, my hobbies have always been very masculine so my environment never needed to change. Plenty of things about my attitude, outlook, and expectations sure did though.

 

[ohrein]

ohrein,

I wholeheartedly agree with every point you made. Perhaps "Chad" is something different to each of us? For me, someone who has been anxious, worried too much about what other people think, submissive etc - being Chad is a sort of letting go; learning to think for myself, "self concern and self priority." But never at the expense of my ethics, I hope you understand that. I love the idea of Chad (maybe I haven't fully realized what exactly that is to others hah!) because it allows me to think critically about how someone other than myself (I've been so wrong for so long) interacts with the world; Chad, being someone who gets more of what he wants out of life. I want to be me of course, but I need to stop being the worse version of myself first. I need to manifest the Chad, until I understand my errors, and then be the true version of myself - if that makes sense. An ego death, before the rebuilding, and it is nice to have a model to look to.

You know how the stock market is often over-bought, or over-sold? Eventually it always reverts to the mean; fair value. Think of me as being "oversold" right now, and while it would be great to inch my way towards "fair value" and stop right on the spot, I don't think it will be likely. I think that's why a lot of people, yourself included, go too alpha for awhile, before finding your happy spot, e.g positive masculinity/mature masculinity. I will probably do the same, I'd imagine.

My goal isn't lays, but I know I need more experience with woman before I dare attempt a LTR again. If I don't have a solid foundation in place, I know for a fact that I will revert to a beta mindset. I need a lot of experience; and of every type. I need the ups and downs, I need to be overly ****y so that I know how to be just right. I need to be disconnected, so that I know the sweet spot for how much affection to give - lest I over romanticize a female again and turn her away from me.

Thank you so much for your insight, its appreciated and I will keep it close, but I will say that I think an overcompensation (to some degree) on my part is an inevitability. The lessons we should have learned when we were young are that much more messy at an older age. I'll do my best sir

You're gonna do great and I look forward to reading of your success in the future.

 

[CamCam]

I love that you threw out your oil diffuser and Ed Sheeran albums in a fit of red-pill rage. I can literally picture it in my mind. You just can't make that up.

Congrats on your awakening and it sounds like you are taking the right steps toward moving forward and making progress. It is a long journey.

I grew up in a similar situation as you, surrounded by women with no male role models. It definitely took it's toll. However, for whatever reason, my hobbies have always been very masculine so my environment never needed to change. Plenty of things about my attitude, outlook, and expectations sure did though.

Makes me want to create a youtube video, all black and white, some dramatic classical Mozart in the background, and some dude taking the red pill and flying into a wage, to end up weeping on the floor, then looking to the sky, hahahah!

 

[CamCam]

You're gonna do great and I look forward to reading of your success in the future.

Thanks a lot; and I hope you don't mind me getting in touch with you when I have questions that I know will soon be coming; e.g dropping plates/disengaging (respectfully), or how to deal with questions from girls about if I'm dating others, - how to go about things like that honestly

 

[BeExcellent]

But here is the question; do you think each person MUST progress through EACH point, to reach full masculine maturity?

No not every man needs to go through the whole progression. How you manage the progression has everything to do with your own background, values, expectations and ability to be objective. All those things vary on an individual basis.

In fact there are men who start out from the get-go as the "great guy" believe it or not. They are rare but they do exist...just like great quality women do exist (but are also rare compared to the general population.)

I listed the various stages the way I did because that's the general trend I observe collectively among men who I interact with (and sometimes discuss TRP with actually). But how individuals pass through becoming red pill aware is going to vary. I'm trying to raise my son to be red-pill aware from the get-go...as I think that will benefit him most as he becomes a young man. He has good male role models and so I think he has a fighting chance to "get it" from the word go. We shall see.

 

[MrWood]

I thought I would win the day with romance and sincere affection. I just ended up pushing girls away.

guilty until I hit 50yo (although my smash stats are 50+ partners and about 8 LTRs)

as boys we were told this is how you get a woman
as men we learn this is the way to the friendzone and rejection

 

[CamCam]

guilty until I hit 50yo (although my smash stats are 50+ partners and about 8 LTRs)

as boys we were told this is how you get a woman
as men we learn this is the way to the friendzone and rejection

Glad I'm not the only one finding that out later on in life; you've obviously been able to change the behavior and have success, so that's very encouraging to me

The hardest part of that, is to intrinsically KNOW you are doing something wrong, but every person (male OR female) you speak with about it, gives you the same wrong information - even encouraging you to
be an even nicer Nice Guy. So you try all the harder, to even worse result. It's so hard to break the cycle; I never would have without sites like this.



I went on a date last night; I'm doing better. I was able to kino, escalate a bit, and went in for a successful kiss at the end. Something I would have been shaking in my boots to do just a month ago. I was definitely leaking beta though hah! All in due time. Eye on the ball