The Intro :
"He couldn’t kill the beta (if he was even aware of it), so he killed himself."
BUCKLE UP, THIS IS A LONG ONE
I've seen a lot of posts and great discussion about frame and game lately and it got me thinking both about my own understanding, and some of the cracks in my own mentality I've been seeing in my current LTR. It also sent me back a bit to a point in my life in which I was game aware, yet had not internalized game. While I was never suicidal, I was so depressed about a girl that it did nearly kill me. Blue pill conditioning and mental illness can actually be fatal, and knowing that is incredibly important. (https://therationalmale.com/2012/10/22/casualties/)
"If a man internalizes for the majority of his life that he “can’t live without” a woman and he has even mild self-esteem issues or personality disorders it may be that he literally can’t live without a girlfriend or wife."
It is from personal experience that I can confidently state that without internalized game, you will ultimately fail. At this time in my life, I had red pill awareness and decent game skills. I was getting laid and spinning plates and yet, I still fell victim to ONEITIS. I hadn't properly killed the beta. (https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/21/kill-the-beta-2/)
Killing the beta :
Alpha/Beta terms are thrown around a lot and I want to avoid the semantic discussions. So in this context beta simply means blue pill conditioned. A guy who tries to "win" the hearts of women, idealizes and desires women to the point of putting himself second, but more importantly, a guy who needs a woman in his life. It's my opinion that this last point is the most dangerous.
A big part of blue pill conditioning is the underlying subconscious socio-cultural pressure that men are defined by the women they can attain. Guys who don't get laid are losers, guy's who have their pick of the litter are the heroes. To quote Tyler Durden, "You're not your fvcking khakis". This idea that a man's value can be measured by the woman he is with is feminine imperative conditioning. Let that sink in. You think you're hot sh1t because you get hot women? What you're saying is, "my value comes from the value of the women I can attract". Doesn't get much more beta than that.
It is imperative that during your interactions with women that you consciously attempt to frame those interactions in your own head as something that does not define who you are. You must kill the beta and to quote Durden again, "Just. Let. Go." You are not the women you have access to. I know this is much harder to say than do as it took me many years to truly even understand it, and I still have moments every so often where I slip into old thought patterns. But you need to internalize this not only for your success with women, but more importantly your own happiness.
Proper frame :
Frame has become a bit of a nebulous term on this board. I think a lot of us understand certain parts of it, have even internalized parts of it, but are missing the overall context. Or at least, I don't see the overall context explained well. This is something I am guilty of myself. If I were to ask everyone to define frame, I think you would see a different answer from almost every person. There is a lot of subjectivity and personal choice in what an individual's frame is, but it's important to understand how frame is supposed to function at a meta level. So I've gone back to Rollo and had a solid think about it after some posts in another thread made me interested in my own understanding again.
"You are either operating in your own frame or you’re operating in hers. Also understand that the balance of frame often shifts. Frame is fluid and will find its own level when a deficit or a surplus of will is applied to change it." (https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/)
So what is proper frame? Frame is the complex set of values and expectations you enter into a relationship with. I will not tolerate cheating is an example of a value within a frame. There are an infinite set of values that could be within your frame and this is the subjective/personal aspect of frame. But where I see the most confusion around frame is how to apply the concept to actual women.
Do you force women into your frame? Do women naturally defer to it? What happens if women operate outside your frame?
Applying frame is simply not compromising yourself or you needs to continue access to a woman. You do not need to control every single interaction, a woman will not meet every single value in your frame, sometimes you will have to compromise or even enter her frame. But as long as you are living your life without putting the women you're involved with on a pedestal, you are exerting frame control. Frame becomes more important the longer you are with a woman as by setting frame, you must lead the relationship. You must be the captain. The individual details are unimportant, it's the overall meta-frame that matters.
Games or game
It seems necessary when starting this journey that your initial foray into game is with games. It's important to learn the game by playing it. At some point though, as a few posters have been pointing out lately (@Macaframalama , @DEEZEDBRAH , and probably more), you must move past games into game. I'd call it mastery.
Game, as Rollo himself has pointed out, is actually an unfortunate term we've ended up with due to the implications and semiotic value of the word. You can't hear the word game without thinking about things like rules, plays, winning, scoring. While some of these do apply to dating, true mastery comes from something past games. You stop playing the game to impress people, to get high scores and to win. You play the game because you enjoy it. You're good at the game, you understand the rules, in fact, you've mastered the game to the point that parts of it are mundane.
I think this is a point most red pill guys who put in the work reach naturally. However, I also think you can be aware of the ultimate goal and move more intentionally towards it.
Instead of asking yourself if the plays you're making are how you win the game, ask yourself what winning the game actually looks like.
Are you content? What do you actually want? What do you expect from the women you're dating?
Is the way you're playing the game actually making your life better, or is there a greater purpose you should be seeking?
Not because this will bring you greater success with women, although it will, but because you need to remove yourself from the social conditioning in which your value comes from the women you're with.
Closings thoughts
I'm hoping for some discussion on various points here and will be updating the post as needed. I'm still digesting a lot of this conceptually and I'm sure there's gaps in my thinking. This post is in part me trying to understand it at a deeper level. But it's vitally important for guys to incorporate this meta thought into their game so that they can unplug correctly and have the relationships they desire.
"He couldn’t kill the beta (if he was even aware of it), so he killed himself."
BUCKLE UP, THIS IS A LONG ONE
I've seen a lot of posts and great discussion about frame and game lately and it got me thinking both about my own understanding, and some of the cracks in my own mentality I've been seeing in my current LTR. It also sent me back a bit to a point in my life in which I was game aware, yet had not internalized game. While I was never suicidal, I was so depressed about a girl that it did nearly kill me. Blue pill conditioning and mental illness can actually be fatal, and knowing that is incredibly important. (https://therationalmale.com/2012/10/22/casualties/)
"If a man internalizes for the majority of his life that he “can’t live without” a woman and he has even mild self-esteem issues or personality disorders it may be that he literally can’t live without a girlfriend or wife."
It is from personal experience that I can confidently state that without internalized game, you will ultimately fail. At this time in my life, I had red pill awareness and decent game skills. I was getting laid and spinning plates and yet, I still fell victim to ONEITIS. I hadn't properly killed the beta. (https://therationalmale.com/2011/11/21/kill-the-beta-2/)
Killing the beta :
Alpha/Beta terms are thrown around a lot and I want to avoid the semantic discussions. So in this context beta simply means blue pill conditioned. A guy who tries to "win" the hearts of women, idealizes and desires women to the point of putting himself second, but more importantly, a guy who needs a woman in his life. It's my opinion that this last point is the most dangerous.
A big part of blue pill conditioning is the underlying subconscious socio-cultural pressure that men are defined by the women they can attain. Guys who don't get laid are losers, guy's who have their pick of the litter are the heroes. To quote Tyler Durden, "You're not your fvcking khakis". This idea that a man's value can be measured by the woman he is with is feminine imperative conditioning. Let that sink in. You think you're hot sh1t because you get hot women? What you're saying is, "my value comes from the value of the women I can attract". Doesn't get much more beta than that.
It is imperative that during your interactions with women that you consciously attempt to frame those interactions in your own head as something that does not define who you are. You must kill the beta and to quote Durden again, "Just. Let. Go." You are not the women you have access to. I know this is much harder to say than do as it took me many years to truly even understand it, and I still have moments every so often where I slip into old thought patterns. But you need to internalize this not only for your success with women, but more importantly your own happiness.
Proper frame :
Frame has become a bit of a nebulous term on this board. I think a lot of us understand certain parts of it, have even internalized parts of it, but are missing the overall context. Or at least, I don't see the overall context explained well. This is something I am guilty of myself. If I were to ask everyone to define frame, I think you would see a different answer from almost every person. There is a lot of subjectivity and personal choice in what an individual's frame is, but it's important to understand how frame is supposed to function at a meta level. So I've gone back to Rollo and had a solid think about it after some posts in another thread made me interested in my own understanding again.
"You are either operating in your own frame or you’re operating in hers. Also understand that the balance of frame often shifts. Frame is fluid and will find its own level when a deficit or a surplus of will is applied to change it." (https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/)
So what is proper frame? Frame is the complex set of values and expectations you enter into a relationship with. I will not tolerate cheating is an example of a value within a frame. There are an infinite set of values that could be within your frame and this is the subjective/personal aspect of frame. But where I see the most confusion around frame is how to apply the concept to actual women.
Do you force women into your frame? Do women naturally defer to it? What happens if women operate outside your frame?
Applying frame is simply not compromising yourself or you needs to continue access to a woman. You do not need to control every single interaction, a woman will not meet every single value in your frame, sometimes you will have to compromise or even enter her frame. But as long as you are living your life without putting the women you're involved with on a pedestal, you are exerting frame control. Frame becomes more important the longer you are with a woman as by setting frame, you must lead the relationship. You must be the captain. The individual details are unimportant, it's the overall meta-frame that matters.
Games or game
It seems necessary when starting this journey that your initial foray into game is with games. It's important to learn the game by playing it. At some point though, as a few posters have been pointing out lately (@Macaframalama , @DEEZEDBRAH , and probably more), you must move past games into game. I'd call it mastery.
Game, as Rollo himself has pointed out, is actually an unfortunate term we've ended up with due to the implications and semiotic value of the word. You can't hear the word game without thinking about things like rules, plays, winning, scoring. While some of these do apply to dating, true mastery comes from something past games. You stop playing the game to impress people, to get high scores and to win. You play the game because you enjoy it. You're good at the game, you understand the rules, in fact, you've mastered the game to the point that parts of it are mundane.
I think this is a point most red pill guys who put in the work reach naturally. However, I also think you can be aware of the ultimate goal and move more intentionally towards it.
Instead of asking yourself if the plays you're making are how you win the game, ask yourself what winning the game actually looks like.
Are you content? What do you actually want? What do you expect from the women you're dating?
Is the way you're playing the game actually making your life better, or is there a greater purpose you should be seeking?
Not because this will bring you greater success with women, although it will, but because you need to remove yourself from the social conditioning in which your value comes from the women you're with.
Closings thoughts
I'm hoping for some discussion on various points here and will be updating the post as needed. I'm still digesting a lot of this conceptually and I'm sure there's gaps in my thinking. This post is in part me trying to understand it at a deeper level. But it's vitally important for guys to incorporate this meta thought into their game so that they can unplug correctly and have the relationships they desire.
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