MGTOW vs Incels

[RickTheToad]

Are they the same or different?

 

[Reykhel]

define both of them for the sake of the thread...

I know what mgtow is but couldn't really tell you what the hell is incel

 

[RickTheToad]

define both of them for the sake of the thread...

I know what mgtow is but couldn't really tell you what the hell is incel

I think they think they are too ugly for a woman to want them, so they get really angry and hate the world because, in their minds, no woman would bang them.

MGTOW, from what I read, are just men giving up on relationships and sex with women and are telling the Internet world that they are so glad women and sex are out of their lives. In reality, I find that doubtful though. Its a basic human desire, so I think they are fooling only themselves.

As hard as dating and relating is, not sure if I would be able to do that. However, to each their own. More power if they can... I guess.

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

MGTOW, from what I read, are just men giving up on relationships and sex with women and are telling the Internet world that they are so glad women and sex are out of their lives. In reality, I find that doubtful though. Its a basic human desire, so I think they are fooling only themselves.

As hard as dating and relating is, not sure if I would be able to do that. However, to each their own. More power if they can... I guess.

To some extent, I can understand the MGTOW philosophy. Personally I find that dating can, at worst, be a complete waste of time and effort (not to mention money too). I frequently take long breaks from it because romantic entanglements with women sometimes only complicate my life (and stress me out).

However, the examples of MGTOW I've seen have exclusively all been fat dudes with bad social skills. Which to me makes their "decision" more of a sad cop out than an actual voluntary thing.

Incels on the other hand...I think it's more a social r*tardation thing. And I don't mean to use that word in an insulting sense: I mean it. They are often socially r*tarded when compared to normal individuals.

The majority of incels are perfectly reasonable looking and even the ones who are outright ugly could still get a woman if they actually had anything to them, personality-wise. But most are hugely entitled, ignorant, hateful and completely unwilling to even put effort into dating. They're bitter, humourless and just generally the kind of people that you'd be desperately avoiding getting stuck with at a party.

Basically I think MGTOW are guys who can't get GFs who respond by just pretending their crippling lack of self esteem is intentional. Whereas incels can't get GFs and instead blame absolutely everything except their own massive flaws.

BOTH put far too much stock in relationships and sex (or lack of) and base their entire self worth off it.

 

[Deep Dish]

Basically I think MGTOW are guys who can't get GFs who respond by just pretending their crippling lack of self esteem is intentional. Whereas incels can't get GFs and instead blame absolutely everything except their own massive flaws.

BOTH put far too much stock in relationships and sex (or lack of) and base their entire self worth off it.

It doesn’t have to be voluntary to be a genuine life decision.

When you realize the game is rigged against you, self-preservation and focusing on other aspects of life is a rational decision, regardless of circumstances.

To quote from the MGTOW.com page called "Shaming Tactics":

Charge of Rationalization: Sour Grapes

The target is accused of explaining away his own failures and/or dissatisfaction by blaming women for his problems.

“You are just bitter because you can’t get laid.”

Response: In this case, it must be asked if it really matters how one arrives at the truth. In other words, one may submit to the accuser, “What if the grapes really are sour?” At any rate, the Code Purple shaming tactic is an example of what is called “circumstantial ad hominem.”

(https://www.mgtow.com/shaming-tactics/)​

I have mild autism, asperger syndrome, so I’m incel, but I’m also MGTOW. For the past three or four years I’ve been focusing 100% of my free time towards 3D modeling with an eye for going professional, switching careers, and women simply interfere with my time. A few years before that, I had a girlfriend for eight months, but the only thing I got, other than some good sex, was a crazy drama queen who extracted a good chunk of money from me.

It’s far more efficient in time, money, and peace of mind for me to visit escorts on occasion. And don’t get me wrong, I’ve been a big proponent of learning game, as my posting history illustrates.

Turd Flinging Monkey on Youtube recently said that a lot of men in MGTOW are former incels, and it’s what saves lives. Elliot Rogers would still be alive today if he had gone MGTOW.

It’s rather fücking ridiculous to say that deciding not to deal with women is putting too much stock into relationships.

 

[logicallefty]

MGTOW has various levels. There is most extreme level full monk live in a cabin in rural Alaska never talk to a woman again. To less extreme who still fvck and even date women but don’t let them get close enough to take assets, ruin reputations, destroy careers, etc. because they know how dangerous that can be. I am less extreme MGTOW but will never be monk even though I have considered it. My duck likes playing in the mud too much.

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

To quote from the MGTOW.com page called "Shaming Tactics":

Charge of Rationalization: Sour Grapes

The target is accused of explaining away his own failures and/or dissatisfaction by blaming women for his problems.

“You are just bitter because you can’t get laid.”

Response: In this case, it must be asked if it really matters how one arrives at the truth. In other words, one may submit to the accuser, “What if the grapes really are sour?” At any rate, the Code Purple shaming tactic is an example of what is called “circumstantial ad hominem.”

(https://www.mgtow.com/shaming-tactics/)​

If the grapes really are "sour", how come the overwhelming majority of men are successful at finding a LTR, steady FWB or wife? Even with divorce rates, yadda yadda yadda, most people are pretty happy overall with their relationship status, or ability to get a relationship if they want one.

If the market was really that bad, the global population would be declining at a frightening rate and only the top 1% of men would ever get to pass on their genes. But it's nowhere near that.

I know lots of fat guys and even socially awkward guys who have dated attractive girls. It's fat guys who are also socially awkward that have the biggest problems - and one problem of those two is not permanent if you put effort in, and sometimes both of those problems are malleable if you don't have a diagnosed issue that makes socialising difficult for you.

Anyway I have no desire to "shame" MGTOW men in general, all I know is that when I see a fat and awkward guy on the news claiming he doesn't want a relationship because women aren't worth his time, that 100% legitimately comes across as a man who can't be bothered to work on himself just ragequitting the game instead.

It’s rather fücking ridiculous to say that deciding not to deal with women is putting too much stock into relationships.

Sorry, but this is just a misrepresentation of what I said by fusing together two separate assertions in my post.

What I actually said was: "I can see where MGTOW are coming from, to an extent." I even said that sometimes I myself don't bother with relationships because dating can be a waste of time.

I then followed that up with saying that "incel" guys in particular (and to a lesser and not universal extent, MGTOW) place too much stock in the value of relationships and allow it to bother them too much. This is a legitimate and separate assertion.

Allow me to explain: Incels don't spend time with women at all, but many spend a s**t-ton of their time hating on women and other men on message boards and generally going insane about it. The fact they even DEFINE THEMSELVES as "incel" rather than "your average guy, I just haven't put my d*ck in a girl, so what?" is self-explanatory when it comes to their ridiculous over-valuing of sexual relationships.

It's like saying "I don't deal with cake, puh-leaaaase, it's below me. Btw, I'm a "NONCAKE" because I haven't eaten a cake before. F*CK THE CAKE-MAKERS, THOSE ENTITLED PRINCESSES! I HATE MY LIFE BECAUSE I NEED CAKE!" Contradictory and ridiculous.

And regarding MGTOW, okay, yeah, some men genuinely made the decision. But again, if I'm not dating...I'm just not dating. That doesn't make me "MGTOW". The fact these guys need to label themselves as such and assign this huge meaning to it again suggests that their lives are consumed by the fact that they aren't dating, rather than being empowered by it.

If you're going your own way, do what every other man does and just...don't date. No need to make it some sort of life statement, no normally adjusted person gives a s**t whether you are dating or not.

It's only if you put lots of stock in relationships that "MGTOW" even means anything as a label in the first place.

Turd Flinging Monkey on Youtube recently said that a lot of men in MGTOW are former incels, and it’s what saves lives. Elliot Rogers would still be alive today if he had gone MGTOW.

I've read Elliot Rogers' manifesto, and while it was written late into his mental decline, it was clear the guy was a complete f*cking nutcase. He was entitled, selfish, racist and extremely misogynistic.

The guy was a piece of s**t, and frankly the world is better off without an idiot like him in it. Good riddance, there, I said it.

If he had gone "MGTOW" he probably would have experienced a temporary respite from being a massive piece of s**t because he'd convince himself his celibacy was a choice even though it wasn't.

He'd start using escorts and then after a few months or years of that, his horrible personality (referring to women as sub-humans, for example) would again surface and he probably would have turned into a serial killer of prostitutes or just have gone on a shooting spree regardless.

Even the fact that Elliot Rogers, a woman-hating lunatic who was enraged by not having sex, could be considered a candidate for being a "MGTOW" just shows how the "incel" and "MGTOW" movements share an awful lot of similarities - and not good ones.

Anyway to sign off: if you're going to grow up with a rich family and every material desire you have catered for, and then spend years ranting and eventually murder people JUST because you haven't got your d*ck wet (and only because of your own repulsive personality), you are a scumbag and don't deserve redemption.

Instead these sorts of violently bitter, sad people deserve removal from society, so normal people are safe.

I don't care about saving Elliot Rogers' life - his torment is self-imposed and he is pathetic. I care about saving the innocent, loving people the sick f*cker decides to kill at random because he can't get his d*ck wet.​

 

[Who Dares Win]

There are many degrees of MGTOW, I follow a soft one clearly.

Relationships of any kind are out of discussione and Im not talking about marriage, I talk about exclusivity or even changing my schedule to accomodate hers or meet some new girl.

If I happen to meet a girl I like, its great to go out with her, have sex with her and spend time with her but I'm not gonna drop an inch of my freedom to do it.

There are no such things as postponing a vacation to stay with a woman or going to a place I wouldnt go otherwise cause she want to do it togheter.

As you can see there is no hatred and anger, just a precise allocation when it comes of priorities.

Plus I have very manly hobbies which are basically the opposite of what the average woman likes, not worth to drop my life style.

I live carefree and with no stress, no fancy places to attend, no social media of any kind, zero fvcks given about celebrities, no drama at all.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I guess I have a foot in the MGTOW world. Best explained perhaps by an anecdote:

Last week, I chatted up a friendly woman in the copy-machine room. She told me to drop by and visit her office sometime. The next day I did [wasn't going to play games and leave it for a few days etc], and invited her for lunch later in the week. She turned up at the coffee shop, and we decided to go to a nicer place for lunch. She was happy to let me pay... with the understanding it was her shout next time. I gave her my card with my number on it, so she can contact me and invite me for lunch. That's it. Period. I've already half forgotten about her. If she contacts me, I'll take it further, if not I'll forget her. As for my paying for lunch... that's like an 'opportunity cost'.

The point is that I'm open to meet women... but only on my terms. It is my job to open up 'diplomatic relations' so to speak, and it's their's to show interest to which I will reciprocate.

I think you have to have the 'attitude' of a MGTOW today... but not the worldview of one.

 

[Desdinova]

There's a fine line between a man who's given up on women because he doesn't have the skills to get one, and a man who's given up on women because he HAS the skills to get them but is tired of dealing with too many garbage quality ones.

 

[Deep Dish]

If the grapes really are "sour", how come the overwhelming majority of men are successful at finding a LTR, steady FWB or wife? Even with divorce rates, yadda yadda yadda, most people are pretty happy overall with their relationship status, or ability to get a relationship if they want one. If the market was really that bad, the global population would be declining at a frightening rate and only the top 1% of men would ever get to pass on their genes. But it's nowhere near that.

Interestingly enough, there are men who are against MGTOW and they are characteristically in dating relationships, which is a conflict of interest. It’s like as if they don’t want to assess the nature of their relationship. Stefan Molyneux is an MRA activist who is happily married and has videos against MGTOW which don’t provide reasoned arguments, for an otherwise reasonable man.

The divorce rate is a pretty good reason to contemplate that marriage is not worth the risk. With the rate of mentally ill women at one in four or whatever, it’s fair to come to the assessment that women are not worth the risk. The repercussions of a bad choice are not limited to divorce of a marriage, of course, but things like false rape accusations, #Metoo, or “accidental” pregnancies. Someone described it like saying you wouldn’t want to play soccer in a minefield even if there was only one mine.

But again, if I'm not dating...I'm just not dating. That doesn't make me "MGTOW". The fact these guys need to label themselves as such and assign this huge meaning to it again suggests that their lives are consumed by the fact that they aren't dating, rather than being empowered by it.If you're going your own way, do what every other man does and just...don't date. No need to make it some sort of life statement, no normally adjusted person gives a s**t whether you are dating or not.

It’s shorthand. The word is there, so it might as well be used. That’s how language works. MGTOW isn’t even a new idea. Men independently come to the conclusion on their own without having put a word to it.

 

[R.U.G.]

The Incel rebellion. Sounds like Custard's last stand.

 

[wifehunter]

There's a fine line between a man who's given up on women because he doesn't have the skills to get one, andi a man who's given up on women because he HAS the skills to get them but is tired of dealing with too many garbage quality ones.

Yeah, I'm going to start neg hitting by saying they are 'somebody else's problem'.

example:

"Do I know you? You look like someone else's problem!"

Can't wait to see the looks on their faces...wish I had a hidden camera for you all. I imagine, some of the responses will be hilarious.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

MGTOW has various levels. There is most extreme level full monk live in a cabin in rural Alaska never talk to a woman again.

Do you think they talk to Eskimo women? Or are they like...

"I hate you! Quit eating seals!"

 

[Trump]

There's a fine line between a man who's given up on women because he doesn't have the skills to get one,

Or he has the skills but doesn’t have the genetics.

and a man who's given up on women because he HAS the skills to get them but is tired of dealing with too many garbage quality ones.

Or he has the skills but no education so he doesn’t attract the quality ones.

 

[Desdinova]

Or he has the skills but doesn’t have the genetics.



Or he has the skills but no education so he doesn’t attract the quality ones.

I don't buy into any of that. There's enough proof out there that you don't need genetics nor education to attract a woman.

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

The Incel rebellion. Sounds like Custard's last stand.

This is quite possibly the best typo ever. Good old Custard.

 

[R.U.G.]

This is quite possibly the best typo ever. Good old Custard.

Damn auto correct.. Custer's last stand... Geez. Yea, AI will take over the world one day.............

 

[MatureDJ]

True Forced Loneliness (basically what incel was referred to originally) legend "Roller" Steve Hoca has always contended that MGTOW are just TFLers in denial.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Incel cannot pull. Mgtow have variations but, some go monk mode and others seek sex casually. I think both are off the mark. Mgtow acknowledged the dangers that is marriage and western women. Incel cannot get laid. I think Mgtow is point on with purpose rather then pursuing the feminine biological strategy. Our laws catering towards the female biological strategy disguised in being what's in the best interest of the children. In reality, it's a golden ticket to cucking her husband skiing down cawk mountain while extracting his resources.