Does this describe any stereotype of women?

[oldmanofthesea]

Dated a 34 year old woman last year who was 1 year out of a divorce (was married at like 18). No kids. Seemed to be a bit of a people pleaser - never wanted to rock the boat or upset anyone. Very attractive, feminine, humble, and insecure. She seemed to have no idea how attractive she was. Had a good high-paying job and lots of girlfriends - strong social life. Very athletic. Fairly shy - yet extroverted - always busy hanging with her girlfriends.

Things moved really fast between us. The sex was great and we took a couple weekend getaway trips. I could tell she was really into me. She wanted to hold my hand everywhere, including in the car, and she kept asking me about once a week "Are you sure you like me?" and it seemed to come from a place of her not believing she caught a guy like me as opposed to her truly not knowing I liked her (she definitely knew I liked her - I did a lot of nice things for her and said a lot of nice things to her - too much in retrospect knowing what I know now).

She told me she loved me about 3 weeks in. Seemed early but we were really working out so I said it back and it made her even more passionate.

We had been introducing each other to our friends slowly, and at the 7-week mark, she introduced me to her family (she invited me to this - I did not ask for it) and a couple more of her close friends and it seemed to go really well. We hung out the next day with some of her friends and she seemed off. The day after that we had plans to get together and instead of doing that, she dumped me over text message saying things went too fast, she felt overwhelmed, she thought she was ready for a relationship but she wasn't, she doesn't know what she wants, and that she didn't want to talk about it. Oh yeah, and that she was sorry and didn't want to hurt me. It seemed totally out of the blue.

Just TWO weeks before this, she was still asking me "are you sure you like me?"

Just one month later, I found out she started dating a guy who seems like the definition of a beta-male and isn't successful enough to be a provider type. No one who has met him understands why she went for him aside from them sharing a hobby. I'm not (yet) as confident/alpha as I should be, but even I don't understand her choice.

I've done my best to move on and continue dating other women but I keep looking back trying to figure it out, and figure out how to better deal with similar women in the future.

So my questions is: Does my story describe any specific stereotype of woman, and if so, what can you tell me about your experience with them and how best to handle them if I run into another one?

Thanks in advance.

 

[The Duke]

Here were your initial red flags:

Things moved really fast between us. The sex was great and we took a couple weekend getaway trips. I could tell she was really into me. She wanted to hold my hand everywhere, including in the car, and she kept asking me about once a week "Are you sure you like me?" and it seemed to come from a place of her not believing she caught a guy like me as opposed to her truly not knowing I liked her (she definitely knew I liked her - I did a lot of nice things for her and said a lot of nice things to her - too much in retrospect knowing what I know now). She told me she loved me about 3 weeks in.

When girls keep asking you "are you sure you like me"....its not coming from a place of believing she caught the worlds greatest guy. It comes from a place of her being insecure or she is questioning how much she really likes you. Don't let your ego convince you otherwise.

Yeah there are girls just like this everywhere. Very common female behavior.

This is why you take what they say with a grain of salt. Care less about the relationship than they do and you will keep them eating out of your hand.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Thanks for the reply. Everything you say makes sense to me except "it might be coming from a place of questioning how much she really likes me."

I definitely understand how it could come from a place of her being insecure, but if she is questioning how much SHE likes ME, why would she ask me if I'm sure she likes her? How will that help her make that decision?

 

[The Duke]

Be careful trying to use male reasoning(logic) to understand a female! They don't always make "rational" sense! They are irrational/emotional creatures, even they don't understand why they do what they do.

She is likely projecting her thoughts(questioning how much she likes you).

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

 

[MrWood]

I think she sensed you caught feelings and wanted a relationship. New dude looser dont want and she knows she wont want him for the long run
Her emotions are now protected with looser dude and he wont get hurt...
she knew if things went farther you would be in too deep and actually get hurt when she bangs the plumber.

All of her words to you were her anti-slvt defense.

things went too fast, she felt overwhelmed, she thought she was ready for a relationship but she wasn't, she doesn't know what she wants

= you will get hurt

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Thanks guys.

After reading your replies, reading more of the Rational Male, and reading a bunch of the DJ bible, it's clear as day how hard I failed here. I was clueless while dating her - had not read any of this stuff. It was breaking up with her that spurred me into the action of discovery.

Learn from my mistakes....

I almost always paid for everything - Devalued myself

I fixed something of hers, and bought her a gift once - Thought I was being a gentleman and "nice" but sadly women interpret this as men thinking they aren't good enough and need to do something extra. Also demonstrates that I was very interested in her which should be a good thing but I've learned it is not.

As Howie mentioned, my ego led me to believe that her saying "Are you sure you like me? I just don't understand why you'd like me" meant that I was a catch and she didn't feel worthy, instead of its true intent which was to trick me into professing my true, strong feelings for her. I think the hand holding, and her saying "I love you" to me was the same. She even asked me one night, "What do you think about us?" I kept it somewhat vague but told her I that I thought we were very fortunate to have met each-other - in a fate sort of way. She didn't really say anything in response, or provide her own evaluation of "us" - again, she was fishing to see what I thought without providing ANY information of her own.
Reading this blew my mind:
As soon as she realized you really loved her, her mission was over.
Women are love seekers. As long as they are looking for love in you they will hang in there. But as soon as they find it, they are off with another dude to start the process over again.
They must never be really sure as you found out. Say "I love you" very rarely in the future.

Verbatim, this is what happened to me. She said she loved me once. I said it back, and after that she never said it first again! I said it first twice after that. She had learned everything she needed to know at that point so there was no need to say it first again.

Two weeks before she dumped me, she told me that I was the first person she went on a Tinder date with. I'm sure most of you would think she was lying but even now, I honestly believe she was telling the truth here. However, I let my ego tell me, "We were so lucky - it must have been fate!" and "She likes me so much, she went on a date with me and stopped searching" instead of what she was actually trying to tell me, "I'm just getting started exploring the sexual marketplace and while I'm having fun with you now, just know that it's not going to last because I want to explore my options." Unfortunately for me, earlier the very same day, she asked me again, "are you sure you like me" which helped throw me off about the first Tinder date thing.

Because she seemed so insecure and acted like she had no idea what her value was, I thought telling her all the positive things I saw in her would be a good and appreciated thing. How stupid I was. All it did was inflate her ego and allow her to better play her hypergamy and think of me as lower-value. I think she may also not be as insecure as she comes off - her shyness probably serves as a mask for her normal sense of self-esteem.

Another thing that threw me off was that she initiated texting all the time. Right up to the day before she dumped me! I think that just like the hand-holding, this was just another way of pinging me to double-check that I was still hooked. Pulling back at ANY time would have probably produced amazing results with this girl.

My guess is that she will continue her pattern of dating beta-males who she is certain pose no threat of dumping her or mistreating her (both of which her ex-husband did), and who she will enjoy being with and receiving affection from for a couple months but not really catch feelings for, then dump them when she gets bored or he starts to get clingy and move on to the next. Poor guys. I hold no bad feelings toward the guy she is with now and actually feel bad for him because I know what he has coming and he seems like he is head over heels for her.

I won't make the same mistakes again. My eyes are open. WISH I knew all this stuff existed before I had met her but I still have time.

 

[Toddz]

Yeah too many red flags on her end, not even going to sit here and point them out. Consider yourself lucky that it's over because she completely manipulated you into revealing your feelings for her. Women that manipulate guys are toxic, this is probably why she is divorced at 34 with no kids. I'm curious why she was married for so long without having kids to begin with?

A few tips to live by when dating and establishing relationships:
Women never want full disclosure, especially when it comes to revealing how you feel about them.
It's better to like a woman than to love a woman.
Always have options and never be afraid to walk away if a woman disrespects you in anyway.
When dating women, don't give away your time and attention without getting something in return (aka sex).
When dating a woman in the beginning, always be closing and escalating things towards sex.
In any relationship, whoever cares less has the most power, so don't invest any emotion with a woman for at least 6 months of dating her.

Don't beat yourself up over her ending things, it's her loss.
Good luck bro

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Thanks guys.

After reading your replies, reading more of the Rational Male, and reading a bunch of the DJ bible, it's clear as day how hard I failed here. I was clueless while dating her - had not read any of this stuff. It was breaking up with her that spurred me into the action of discovery.

Learn from my mistakes....

I almost always paid for everything - Devalued myself

I fixed something of hers, and bought her a gift once - Thought I was being a gentleman and "nice" but sadly women interpret this as men thinking they aren't good enough and need to do something extra. Also demonstrates that I was very interested in her which should be a good thing but I've learned it is not.

As Howie mentioned, my ego led me to believe that her saying "Are you sure you like me? I just don't understand why you'd like me" meant that I was a catch and she didn't feel worthy, instead of its true intent which was to trick me into professing my true, strong feelings for her. I think the hand holding, and her saying "I love you" to me was the same. She even asked me one night, "What do you think about us?" I kept it somewhat vague but told her I that I thought we were very fortunate to have met each-other - in a fate sort of way. She didn't really say anything in response, or provide her own evaluation of "us" - again, she was fishing to see what I thought without providing ANY information of her own.
Reading this blew my mind:
As soon as she realized you really loved her, her mission was over.
Women are love seekers. As long as they are looking for love in you they will hang in there. But as soon as they find it, they are off with another dude to start the process over again.
They must never be really sure as you found out. Say "I love you" very rarely in the future.

Verbatim, this is what happened to me. She said she loved me once. I said it back, and after that she never said it first again! I said it first twice after that. She had learned everything she needed to know at that point so there was no need to say it first again.

Two weeks before she dumped me, she told me that I was the first person she went on a Tinder date with. I'm sure most of you would think she was lying but even now, I honestly believe she was telling the truth here. However, I let my ego tell me, "We were so lucky - it must have been fate!" and "She likes me so much, she went on a date with me and stopped searching" instead of what she was actually trying to tell me, "I'm just getting started exploring the sexual marketplace and while I'm having fun with you now, just know that it's not going to last because I want to explore my options." Unfortunately for me, earlier the very same day, she asked me again, "are you sure you like me" which helped throw me off about the first Tinder date thing.

Because she seemed so insecure and acted like she had no idea what her value was, I thought telling her all the positive things I saw in her would be a good and appreciated thing. How stupid I was. All it did was inflate her ego and allow her to better play her hypergamy and think of me as lower-value. I think she may also not be as insecure as she comes off - her shyness probably serves as a mask for her normal sense of self-esteem.

Another thing that threw me off was that she initiated texting all the time. Right up to the day before she dumped me! I think that just like the hand-holding, this was just another way of pinging me to double-check that I was still hooked. Pulling back at ANY time would have probably produced amazing results with this girl.

My guess is that she will continue her pattern of dating beta-males who she is certain pose no threat of dumping her or mistreating her (both of which her ex-husband did), and who she will enjoy being with and receiving affection from for a couple months but not really catch feelings for, then dump them when she gets bored or he starts to get clingy and move on to the next. Poor guys. I hold no bad feelings toward the guy she is with now and actually feel bad for him because I know what he has coming and he seems like he is head over heels for her.

I won't make the same mistakes again. My eyes are open. WISH I knew all this stuff existed before I had met her but I still have time.

That sounds terrible. Is it even worth trying to be in a relationship with someone like this?

 

[oldmanofthesea]

That sounds terrible. Is it even worth trying to be in a relationship with someone like this?

No - I hope I didn't give the impression that is what I was looking to do. I still have feelings for her since what we had was so strong, but they are fading faster now that I'm seeing and understanding what really happened. I won't be going back to that poisoned well. Toddz is right - I do consider myself lucky that she dumped me at 2 months instead of further out when I would have been even more into the relationship. To answer your question about kids Toddz, she had a really bad childhood with terrible parents and that caused her to not want kids - according to what she told me. I didn't really think too much of that since I'm 40 and haven't ever had the calling for kids myself, despite an average childhood.

Thanks for the words of support guys. You all make great points and it's nice to talk to people who understand what's going on. My friends are awesome and supportive but their input and advice was all over the map because they haven't taken the red pill.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Was her default mode of operation "playing the field"? They usually pursue unavailable men and use the good ones to help her.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Really hard to say mrgoodstuff. She didn't offer up much about her dating experiences post-divorce when I casually asked, and I usually try to avoid that subject - especially not pressing it when a women dodges the question. But I would not call her ex husband or her new boyfriend a catch in any sense of the word, from a looks, confidence, or financial standpoint. No clue what the other guys she dated are like. I think she's too insecure and shy to pursue high-value or unavailable men. She's extremely submissive, shy, and modest. Always the quietest person in the room, while still being an extrovert and ensuring she is almost never alone (always with friends or a boyfriend or siblings). All those qualities helped trick me into thinking she wouldn't be the kind of person to manipulate like she did. I took everything she said at face value because she seemed so genuinely sweet, nice, and insecure.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Really hard to say mrgoodstuff. She didn't offer up much about her dating experiences post-divorce when I casually asked, and I usually try to avoid that subject - especially not pressing it when a women dodges the question. But I would not call her ex husband or her new boyfriend a catch in any sense of the word, from a looks, confidence, or financial standpoint. No clue what the other guys she dated are like. I think she's too insecure and shy to pursue high-value or unavailable men. She's extremely submissive, shy, and modest. Always the quietest person in the room, while still being an extrovert and ensuring she is almost never alone (always with friends or a boyfriend or siblings). All those qualities helped trick me into thinking she wouldn't be the kind of person to manipulate like she did. I took everything she said at face value because she seemed so genuinely sweet, nice, and insecure.

How were her actions? Were her words sweet but actions and follow thru didn't align? Or she was able to play the role for a while?

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Her actions were great while we were together. Everything lined up. Never blew me off or cancelled a date or said "I'm not sure". Always offered to pay or split the check. Gave me a nice gift once. Always went along with my suggestion for what to do and where, and was very available.

After she dumped me, I waited a few weeks and tried to setup another date with her. I never pleaded, just tried to set a date. From that point forward, of course, things were different with her actions. It was always "I'm not sure when I'm available" and then said she'd get back to me but didn't, then made a date and cancelled at the last minute etc. So I've been NC since that time and have no plans of ever reaching out again. I shouldn't have reached out after she dumped me but I didn't know then what I know now. I'm only mentioning it to show the contrast in her actions.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Her actions were great while we were together. Everything lined up. Never blew me off or cancelled a date or said "I'm not sure". Always offered to pay or split the check. Gave me a nice gift once. Always went along with my suggestion for what to do and where, and was very available.

After she dumped me, I waited a few weeks and tried to setup another date with her. I never pleaded, just tried to set a date. From that point forward, of course, things were different with her actions. It was always "I'm not sure when I'm available" and then said she'd get back to me but didn't, then made a date and cancelled at the last minute etc. So I've been NC since that time and have no plans of ever reaching out again. I shouldn't have reached out after she dumped me but I didn't know then what I know now. I'm only mentioning it to show the contrast in her actions.

Ok. So she's either doing something else or not worrying about guys. Did she ask for committment? Perhaps you propped up her confidence and she is dealing with another.

 

[Killakittie]

Dated a 34 year old woman last year who was 1 year out of a divorce (was married at like 18). No kids. Seemed to be a bit of a people pleaser - never wanted to rock the boat or upset anyone. Very attractive, feminine, humble, and insecure. She seemed to have no idea how attractive she was. Had a good high-paying job and lots of girlfriends - strong social life. Very athletic. Fairly shy - yet extroverted - always busy hanging with her girlfriends.

Things moved really fast between us. The sex was great and we took a couple weekend getaway trips. I could tell she was really into me. She wanted to hold my hand everywhere, including in the car, and she kept asking me about once a week "Are you sure you like me?" and it seemed to come from a place of her not believing she caught a guy like me as opposed to her truly not knowing I liked her (she definitely knew I liked her - I did a lot of nice things for her and said a lot of nice things to her - too much in retrospect knowing what I know now).

She told me she loved me about 3 weeks in. Seemed early but we were really working out so I said it back and it made her even more passionate.

We had been introducing each other to our friends slowly, and at the 7-week mark, she introduced me to her family (she invited me to this - I did not ask for it) and a couple more of her close friends and it seemed to go really well. We hung out the next day with some of her friends and she seemed off. The day after that we had plans to get together and instead of doing that, she dumped me over text message saying things went too fast, she felt overwhelmed, she thought she was ready for a relationship but she wasn't, she doesn't know what she wants, and that she didn't want to talk about it. Oh yeah, and that she was sorry and didn't want to hurt me. It seemed totally out of the blue.

Just TWO weeks before this, she was still asking me "are you sure you like me?"

Just one month later, I found out she started dating a guy who seems like the definition of a beta-male and isn't successful enough to be a provider type. No one who has met him understands why she went for him aside from them sharing a hobby. I'm not (yet) as confident/alpha as I should be, but even I don't understand her choice.

I've done my best to move on and continue dating other women but I keep looking back trying to figure it out, and figure out how to better deal with similar women in the future.

So my questions is: Does my story describe any specific stereotype of woman, and if so, what can you tell me about your experience with them and how best to handle them if I run into another one?

Thanks in advance.

Bruised ego, happens to the best of us, stop trying to figure out her motives and focus on being a kick ass guy.

We could debate this all day, Her family could of given her **** for how fast you two were moving causing her to pull away suddenly. Also possible she was never into you as much as she acted which just saved you a **** load of trouble. I'd bet the reason you keep thinking about this is because her words don't match up with her actions... And your ego got bruised a bit.. Remember the Medium is the message! Simple as that. Move on.

 

[ohrein]

I have never fully figured out these types of women and I'm not sure it's even a type. My best running hypothesis is high functioning avoidant personality disorder. But the problem with that is that it's unlikely someone has APD and good social skills and friends. Another guess would be Narcissistic PD, borderline personality disorder or just straight sociopathy. Nothing quite lines up close enough though. I know we shouldn't play psychologist but I think we can all agree this behaviour is not healthy and I'd love to be able to spot it coming. I have experienced this love bombing into quick nothingness before and that girl told me she had a disorder, but I still didn't see it coming! You have to be very careful for the first year of a relationship that you understand it's all a trial.

Anyway, I have never figured out how to identify this behavior and it has forced me to keep a foot out the door in even the most promising relationships. That sucks but until I know how to spot it, gotta protect yourself.

Sorry it happened to you, bro. This chick will have you feeling dread in all your relationships now, especially when they seem really great! It's messed up and I wish I could understand it.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

MrGoodStuff - she has a new boyfriend so that's what she's doing now. She never asked for a commitment - just kept asking what I thought about us and if I was sure I liked her.

Killakittie - You are right about that - it could be debated to the end of the world, yet no one may ever know the real reason (possibly not even her)! A big part of why I have kept trying to analyze it is to try to understand what mistakes I made, vs what was just her being nuts and there was nothing I could do. I think at the end of the day, it simply comes down to me over-pursuing her and that was not a good mix with her probably being worse than average about hypergamy.

Ohrein, thanks for the reply. Yeah you are right; I will be extra cautious now because of her.

The silver lining to this happening to me is that it brought me here, and has made me learn so many new things.

 

[VladPatton]

Whatever the dudes said may be true. You can do this, you can do that. Your hair, your car, you being super alpha dude. Oooooooor this is just another crazy a$$ b!tch on a fistful of head pills!

Look, you're never going to know unless you get balls deep and try. I think she's just fvcking nuts, and will just begin and end relationships her whole life until she gets tired of it and stays single until she dies. At least you fvcked something hot for a few months, and it was fun. Time to put it past you. In fact, think of yourself as lucky! Imagine she did this on your wedding day.

 

[oldmanofthesea]

Thanks Vlad. I do try to tell myself that. Possibly the most difficult part of my dating journey since the divorce is that I don't feel I can learn much from the experience because women aren't honest with you about their reasons for breaking up. I know some may say "Don't worry about it - just keep on moving on to the next" but I have had a couple girls now use the "things went way too fast" line. Could be just a generic line or it could mean something. And it could be that I'm not over-pursuing for a "normal" girl, but I am over-pursuing for a girl with intimacy issues or a bad case of hypergamy. Or it could mean who the h*ll knows what else. That's the problem: How do you learn what to adjust and fine-tune if women aren't honest with you?