It may really be all about looks...

[Reyaj]

I had a date last night with some girl off POF. It was probably the fastest date I ever had... We met for drinks and she drank hers very fast... She gave mixed signals.. and long story short I went for a kiss at the end and got shot down....

Now here is the thing.. I generally do the same thing on any date with any girl... sometimes I get nice make out sessions out of it and sometimes the girl just doesn't appear into me... I am really starting to believe that a girl decides pretty quickly if she's physically attracted to you... if she is you have a good chance to get some... if she's not you're pretty much out no matter what BS you try and talk about.

The thing is looks are very subjective.. Something Des pointed out in the high score theory that really resonates is that a girl's physical attraction to a male is shaped early in life... This is why you see so many attractive women with guys that might generally be considered sub par in looks... I've seen so many girls I've dated where I didn't get anywhere end up in relationships with guys I wouldn't consider better looking than me.. but maybe something about their features or body resonates with them somehow.

But anyway the sad reality is it seems like a lot hinges on whether a girl is physically attracted to you or not... in other words despite all the game you learn on here there's too much out of your control to get the lay when you want it.

This is the reality I've found in all my dating of women that most people won't want to admit.

 

[Dash Riprock]

Physical chemistry is important for men and women but far more important for men based on our wiring. Women like hot guys but OVER TIME are more drawn to their personality and how they make them "feel" if they want to date someone, get married, or have an LTR. If it's just a hookup ala Tinder or SA.com, looks are 99% of it, so it depends what the expectations are for the date.

 

[Who Dares Win]

I believe within 3 seconds of seeing each other men and women know if they find the other person attractive.

Within 20 seconds of interaction, they know if they want to be intimate.

 

[sosousage]

I had a date last night with some girl off POF. It was probably the fastest date I ever had... We met for drinks and she drank hers very fast... She gave mixed signals.. and long story short I went for a kiss at the end and got shot down....

Now here is the thing.. I generally do the same thing on any date with any girl... sometimes I get nice make out sessions out of it and sometimes the girl just doesn't appear into me... I am really starting to believe that a girl decides pretty quickly if she's physically attracted to you... if she is you have a good chance to get some... if she's not you're pretty much out no matter what BS you try and talk about.

The thing is looks are very subjective.. Something Des pointed out in the high score theory that really resonates is that a girl's physical attraction to a male is shaped early in life... This is why you see so many attractive women with guys that might generally be considered sub par in looks... I've seen so many girls I've dated where I didn't get anywhere end up in relationships with guys I wouldn't consider better looking than me.. but maybe something about their features or body resonates with them somehow.

But anyway the sad reality is it seems like a lot hinges on whether a girl is physically attracted to you or not... in other words despite all the game you learn on here there's too much out of your control to get the lay when you want it.

This is the reality I've found in all my dating of women that most people won't want to admit.

not really.

hot 19 bangs fatty and not handsome at all tesco manager:
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work...l/news-story/c27b9829762caa99fa032c3dba9d326c

 

[Billtx49]

Looks can get you in the door and as far as a ONL or three. Beyond that, it depends on the whole package and what she wants in a man…

 

[ohrein]

No one claims looks don't matter. The claim is that looks aren't the only thing that matter, nor are looks the most important factor. Humor as an example is incredibly powerful.

 

[Pandora]

Looks are the single biggest determining factor with Western women. Anyone who says otherwise is hamstering. If you are very good looking you will do very well on Tinder, OLD, and in the meat market of bars. All you have to do as a good looking guy is not to mess up the date. You can be quiet and be agreeable and you will get the same night lay. Now, she will not keep you around but she will definately use you for sex. I have seen my Abercrombie model looking friends clean up with women. These guys had boring personalities but it didnt matter because most women have boring personalities also.

 

[Pandora]

No one claims looks don't matter. The claim is that looks aren't the only thing that matter, nor are looks the most important factor. Humor as an example is incredibly powerful.

You a right bro. But humor with physical escalation is key. Humor without a sexual edge will land you smack in the middle of the friendzone lol. When I was younger I had this smoking hot chick who told me I was the funniest friend she knew. But I was stuck in the friend zone because i didnt make my intentions known early enough. To be fair, she was dating a guy when I first met her so I didnt want to violate that. This is what caused me to land in the friendzone.

 

[ohrein]

Looks are the single biggest determining factor with Western women.

I would agree that initial physical attraction is the biggest determining factor. BUT, that doesn't mean you need to be a model. I'm not pretty average looking but certain women over the years have found me incredibly attractive. There is always variance.

Yes, hot guys have it easier, but that doesn't mean less attractive guys can't succeed. You're looking at it too simplistically. Make yourself as physically appealing as possible and forget about looks entirely. It's not helpful to dwell on what you can't change.

 

[Pandora]

I would agree that initial physical attraction is the biggest determining factor. BUT, that doesn't mean you need to be a model. I'm not pretty average looking but certain women over the years have found me incredibly attractive. There is always variance.

Yes, hot guys have it easier, but that doesn't mean less attractive guys can't succeed. You're looking at it too simplistically. Make yourself as physically appealing as possible and forget about looks entirely. It's not helpful to dwell on what you can't change.

Yeh ur right bro. I hope I didn't imply that you need to be a model to get women. Everyone is someones type. What I am saying is that even average guys can get women. But to those women it was your looks that did most of the work. To that girl you are not ugly. You are cute to her ( most of the time). Some girls look at me and think I am ugly. Others think I am handsome. But looks are almost always the biggest factor in either rejection or acceptance. But I may be wrong on this.

 

[ohrein]

Yeh ur right bro. I hope I didn't imply that you need to be a model to get women. Everyone is someones type. What I am saying is that even average guys can get women. But to those women it was your looks that did most of the work. To that girl you are not ugly. You are cute to her ( most of the time). Some girls look at me and think I am ugly. Others think I am handsome. But looks are almost always the biggest factor in either rejection or acceptance. But I may be wrong on this.

If having a woman's initial interest is your only goal, then yes, LMS is all that matters. I don't think anyone here thinks improving LMS isn't important or beneficial to attracting higher quality women, it's just that there is far more to success with women than the first interactions. That said, I've met some really high quality women that are 6-7's which puts them into the range 99% of guys who put effort into their LMS. It's really not that hard to go to the gym a couple of times a week, dress slightly nicer than average and have a stable job.

Narrow your concept down. Is it LMS is all that matters if you want to get a 10's initial interest? Or do you think LMS is important with a great average woman? Do you need LMS to keep hold of a 10 if you get that initial interest? Or is it possible you could get a 10's interest with humor and maintain her interest with lower LMS?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I'm not sure what you want guys looking for help to make of your information? We all know we should work on LMS... so what else?

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

This is the reality I've found in all my dating of women that most people won't want to admit.

You've swallowed the black pill and there's no turning back. Non-chads don't want the truth. Non-chads don't want to hear that their game and confidence will only take them so far.

 

[Milano]

What you do when thoughts of being non attractive arrives, is that you eat another meal and workout longer and harder. I know supershy guys lacking severe social skills getting dates with cuties because of a good lean muscular physique. It has even surprised me cause their lacking in social skills really has been that bad.

Im pretty sure you like most of us havent maxed out our looks. You are probably around average height, try to get to about 205 pounds and be lean. I promise you this will help so much with getting dates on tinder etc so you can practice social skills more and go into an upward spiral of abundance which girls will notice.

Do you have a cool style, dress nice, get comments on it? Get muscular and get a style that says you have confidence, but also in which you feel great in. Might take some time but hey, thats how it is!

 

[sosousage]

What you do when thoughts of being non attractive arrives, is that you eat another meal and workout longer and harder. I know supershy guys lacking severe social skills getting dates with cuties because of a good lean muscular physique. It has even surprised me cause their lacking in social skills really has been that bad.

Im pretty sure you like most of us havent maxed out our looks. You are probably around average height, try to get to about 205 pounds and be lean. I promise you this will help so much with getting dates on tinder etc so you can practice social skills more and go into an upward spiral of abundance which girls will notice.

Do you have a cool style, dress nice, get comments on it? Get muscular and get a style that says you have confidence, but also in which you feel great in. Might take some time but hey, thats how it is!

women are not worth the effort

 

[ohrein]

You've swallowed the black pill and there's no turning back. Non-chads don't want the truth. Non-chads don't want to hear that their game and confidence will only take them so far.

How far can game and confidence take you? Be specific. Think about it. Also, this isn't /r/incels.

 

[R.U.G.]

For dating (and even mating), looks first, personality and status next. If you are a CEO or a celebrity (even a Z-list), you are perceived as a higher worth (in her mind) than she is. Thus, the hamster wheel may increase that attraction for you. Also depends on age. Generally, what a woman wants at 22 is different than what she wants at 35. However, if you are someone important, then that will help a lot.

 

[Reyaj]

Physical chemistry is important for men and women but far more important for men based on our wiring. Women like hot guys but OVER TIME are more drawn to their personality and how they make them "feel" if they want to date someone, get married, or have an LTR. If it's just a hookup ala Tinder or SA.com, looks are 99% of it, so it depends what the expectations are for the date.

I don't know.. I think women may be more superficial when it comes to this to be honest. Yes it's true that how you make a woman feel is important to date, get married, have an LTR etc... My current girlfriend told me that exact line when were dating early on "I like how you make me feel" However in order to have a chance to make a women feel these things she has to find you physically attractive. If she doesn't that door will be very difficult to open and I really find not worth the effort.

I believe within 3 seconds of seeing each other men and women know if they find the other person attractive.

Within 20 seconds of interaction, they know if they want to be intimate.

Pretty much lol. As simple as that is its taken me a while to learn and accept this.

Looks can get you in the door and as far as a ONL or three. Beyond that, it depends on the whole package and what she wants in a man…

Right.. but you need to get into that door first.

No one claims looks don't matter. The claim is that looks aren't the only thing that matter, nor are looks the most important factor. Humor as an example is incredibly powerful.

That's the thing though... in order to convey your humor and other attractive traits the woman has to be receptive to you. Most women who don't find you attractive just don't instinctively allow themselves to entertain the idea of qualifying you. I'm not saying it can't be done (I believe I pulled it off a few times which I'll post about in my journal thread I plan to create soon) but is the effort worth it?

Looks are the single biggest determining factor with Western women. Anyone who says otherwise is hamstering. If you are very good looking you will do very well on Tinder, OLD, and in the meat market of bars. All you have to do as a good looking guy is not to mess up the date. You can be quiet and be agreeable and you will get the same night lay. Now, she will not keep you around but she will definately use you for sex. I have seen my Abercrombie model looking friends clean up with women. These guys had boring personalities but it didnt matter because most women have boring personalities also.

Yeah, I mean I'll keep going back to the door analogy.. Looks will get you in that door.. but then you need the game to follow. A lot of people don't seem to want to admit the importance of looks though.

But here is the good news... Women find all different types of guys attractive! This is a big reason why "it's a numbers game" is probably the truest and most useful advice there is. You never know if a girl will find you attractive or not... the more you approach the more likely you are to find one who does.

I would agree that initial physical attraction is the biggest determining factor. BUT, that doesn't mean you need to be a model. I'm not pretty average looking but certain women over the years have found me incredibly attractive. There is always variance.

Yes, hot guys have it easier, but that doesn't mean less attractive guys can't succeed. You're looking at it too simplistically. Make yourself as physically appealing as possible and forget about looks entirely. It's not helpful to dwell on what you can't change.

Yep exactly what I just said above. According to Des's high score theory a woman's affinity is developed early in life due to what they are exposed to etc...

Yeh ur right bro. I hope I didn't imply that you need to be a model to get women. Everyone is someones type. What I am saying is that even average guys can get women. But to those women it was your looks that did most of the work. To that girl you are not ugly. You are cute to her ( most of the time). Some girls look at me and think I am ugly. Others think I am handsome. But looks are almost always the biggest factor in either rejection or acceptance. But I may be wrong on this.

Right on the money.

If having a woman's initial interest is your only goal, then yes, LMS is all that matters. I don't think anyone here thinks improving LMS isn't important or beneficial to attracting higher quality women, it's just that there is far more to success with women than the first interactions. That said, I've met some really high quality women that are 6-7's which puts them into the range 99% of guys who put effort into their LMS. It's really not that hard to go to the gym a couple of times a week, dress slightly nicer than average and have a stable job.

Narrow your concept down. Is it LMS is all that matters if you want to get a 10's initial interest? Or do you think LMS is important with a great average woman? Do you need LMS to keep hold of a 10 if you get that initial interest? Or is it possible you could get a 10's interest with humor and maintain her interest with lower LMS?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I'm not sure what you want guys looking for help to make of your information? We all know we should work on LMS... so what else?

What is LMS? I'm serious lol..

You've swallowed the black pill and there's no turning back. Non-chads don't want the truth. Non-chads don't want to hear that their game and confidence will only take them so far.

Yes I definitely see this on here.... I have to admit though I am thinking about what happend last Friday... I was a little nervous in there because I was in a place I could have potentially been spotted.. maybe it showed through... She did ask me if she was what I expected which is usually an IOI.. We talked on the phone once prior to meeting and after her IL in me was super high so maybe it's the whole "let down" internet chicks get when they paint a mental picture of someone in their head that no one can match... Its pretty sad when mid 30's single moms are picky though lol

 

[ohrein]

What is LMS? I'm serious lol..

Looks, Money, Status.

Yep exactly what I just said above. According to Des's high score theory a woman's affinity is developed early in life due to what they are exposed to etc...

Yes, but there is variance. Just too much binary thinking round these parts. That's all I'm concerned about. Des' high score theory is specific to women who have had emotionally invested relationships. I think it's a great theory and can often apply quite emphatically, but, I have personally known women who have moved on from exes eventually. Scores do drop over time and you can get very high scores too, which Des does a great job of explaining the details of. I think many guys see that theory and just think, well they have some ex they'll never get over so what's the point. Those cases are not necessarily rare but they're also not 100%. It takes a level of objective analysis to figure out if that's the case.

Plus importantly, most women haven't met a real man. If you follow the advice in the bible, you are an absolutely rarity. High scores will follow. I've experienced this a few times in recent years after I'd really figured this stuff out.

 

[nismo-4]

You've swallowed the black pill and there's no turning back. Non-chads don't want the truth. Non-chads don't want to hear that their game and confidence will only take them so far.

If a woman doesn't find you attractive i.e. Chad or Tyrone, she'll label all your game and confidence as unattractive. Or your game will be entertainment at best, annoying at worst. That's friendzone and creep-zone respectively.

A woman's IL all depends on what phase of her life she's in and what she's looking for. Sometimes you move fast sexually, and get shot down. It means she was either:

1. Unattracted to you

2. Wants you in some beta role i.e. friendzone, ego booster, orbiter, jester, therapist, etc.

3. Interested in a marriage or relationship.

You gotta find out what she's looking for. Men, it's sex first, relationship second. There are a lot of factors you can't control. Even having a iphone of a different color can get you ruled out. She could dislike your car, shoe size, shirt color, taste in electronics, etc.

If she's not sexually interested, bail. Unless you want to have a beta role. You always have competition. Second place is first loser. You need to find a way to come in first.

If she only wants you as a beta, move on. You're better off being useless than a beta orbiter. Only when you're having sex with her you're an alpha. Walking off before doing this doesn't make you an alpha, it shows you won't be a beta puppy.

Second place is for losers.

 

[Machine10033]

Like other people have said looks are important . Everyone has the opportunity to improve on them though. You can be a 5-6 and have an amazing performance and pull a 10 but in my opinion that's not going to happen all the time. The better looking you are the more mistakes you can make and get away with it. Guys who are not taking care of themselves and banking on game and personality are doing themselves a disservice.