Embrace Rejection

[BeExcellent]

After attending a wedding this past weekend with the boyfriend we got to talking about some of his buddies. These are men with some success in life under their belt, fit, attractive men...they own their own homes, drive nice cars, have good careers, are physically attractive (usually 7-8's) dress well and are cool to hang out with...and who fumble more often than not with women.

My boyfriend (who is known as a player) often opens women for a couple of his buddies, creates attraction, and then passes the women off to his friends. He's a great wing for his pals. But the attraction often fizzles between the women and the friend either at the initial introduction or after a few dates, even after the warm introduction. So the BF and I were discussing why this is.

I think it is a combination of things. I think that the women become attracted to the BF (who is a mad confident 8.5 or so at 6'4" tall, dark & handsome with a very sexually forward vibe), and their attraction for him doesn't translate over to his buddies all that well in the first place and this ties into what the BF thinks the problem is, which is the fear of rejection that his buddies have. That fear of rejection then manifests itself into the analysis paralysis that we often see behind posts here.

You know, the what should I say, how should I text her, the over thinking of Every. Single. Move. And the overthinking kills the natural flow of the interaction and sooner or later kills attraction and interest level.

We both agree that if his buddies would open their own women their success rates would go way up. But they really don't like the possibility of rejection and they get wishy washy about making the approach themselves.

My BF has no fear of rejection. None. Zilch, Zero, Nada. Furthermore he expects a positive reception from women he opens and this routinely fulfills itself. He is a nice looking man but there are men who are more handsome, richer, fitter etc. (although he is a handsome total package), but he can meet anyone, open any woman from an 18 year old to an 80 year old; he is fearless. Does he get snubbed some? Sure. But he doesn't care. It doesn't bother him at all. And that really is the secret.

OK. Problem ID'd. Now what? EMBRACE REJECTION. Get out there and get some cold water in the face. It's brisk. You'll feel alive. It isn't going to kill you but this is a huge fear of so many men. And if you'll have the willingness to get out there and risk rejection you'll find out you don't always get rejected at all. My goodness...you'll have some success!! Look at some of the journaling @narcissist has done. Learn from that. It's transformative with women and life in general.

And don't tell me I'm a chick and I don't understand. That's true but it's not that different than asking for a sale or taking the risk of rejection in a professional negotiation (which I do routinely). The worst someone can say is no! (Ok sometimes it might be Hell No & Go Away) but honestly learn to handle that and you'll become fearless. Fearlessness is sexy!

Embrace the rejection. Quit overthinking everything. Relax.

To your success Gents!

 

[sazc]

Im confused....

Your boyfriend creates attraction between himself and these women and then tries to hand them over to his friends to date?

As if the attraction the women have for your boyfriend will transfer to his friends?

And the women won't feel let down, or like a commodity for being passed off like that?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[Speculator E]

Cool, what's the strategy to overcome rejection? This topic has be discussed before and thousand of times afterwards. You being a lady, the post sounds more like you're trying brag that you have the "most alpha" boyfriend ever then trying to help men. It's very obvious.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Im confused....

Your boyfriend creates attraction between himself and these women and then tries to hand them over to his friends to date?

As if the attraction the women have for your boyfriend will transfer to his friends?

And the women won't feel let down, or like a commodity for being passed off like that?

Is that what you are saying?

Buying temperature is transferable. Sales managers take advantage of that, by coming in to do the hard closing after the sales person they supervise has increased buying temperature.

 

[Speculator E]

My BF has no fear of rejection. None. Zilch, Zero, Nada. Furthermore he expects a positive reception from women he opens and this routinely fulfills itself. He is a nice looking man but there are men who are more handsome, richer, fitter etc. (although he is a handsome total package), but he can meet anyone, open any woman from an 18 year old to an 80 year old; he is fearless. Does he get snubbed some? Sure. But he doesn't care. It doesn't bother him at all. And that really is the secret.

Also, let me clarify on this. You're actually okay and let your Boyfriend hit on other women???

 

[Roober]

That's true but it's not that different than asking for a sale or taking the risk of rejection in a professional negotiation (which I do routinely). The worst someone can say is no! (Ok sometimes it might be Hell No & Go Away) but honestly learn to handle that and you'll become fearless. Fearlessness is sexy!

Everyone should always be willing to ask for anything. If a man is uncomfortable with women, he can start with other simple things.

For example...
1. When at a grocery store, ask for a discount. You know the answer already, but ya never know. I went to buy a chocolate cake for the lady yesterday, and I literally asked if I could get a $7.99 cake for $1.99. I was courteous, a bit silly, and gave the clerk a laugh. She said, "how about $5?" Great! And this is at Safeway.
2. When I travel, I say "can I get a free room upgrade? I really want to make it special for the lady" I get upgraded to executive suites about 50% of the time.
3. At work, I regularly ask people for small things. I even asked my boss to buy me coffee, and she ended up buying for the entire department.

If you can get used to hearing "NO" in trivial things, it will make it easier with women as well. You will notice the more you hear "no", the more you learn how to get that "yes" out of people. It is all about.... practice!

There are no failures in life, there are only lessons.

If she (or anyone) says "no", look at yourself first

 

[sazc]

Buying temperature is transferable. Sales managers take advantage of that, by coming in to do the hard closing after the sales person they supervise has increased buying temperature.

If u say so. I'd feel incredibly insulted if I were getting to know a man, interested, and then, all of a sudden he said "meet my friend Frank" and walked away from me, ne'er to be seen again.

Frank wouldn't stand a chance

 

[sazc]

Also, let me clarify on this. You're actually okay and let your Boyfriend hit on other women???

She's fine with it. In fact, she thinks it's cute. She knows she's got her man on lock down and she's a confident, self assured woman. Nothing to worry about!

In my world, a man who openly flirts with other women in front of you is either not planning on staying loyal to you and/or is trying to elicit a strong emotional reaction out of you.

If it's a male emotional sh1t test, it usually occurs when he needs more investment from you as a woman. He's feeling like you aren't as into him, as he is to you, so he overtly attempts to cause drama to get your emotions going, so he can see that you do care about him/are invested.

IMO it's a sign of disrespect when you are in an LTR. Would a man tolerate his LTR woman behaving like this? I think not, unless he was a beta.

 

[Bible_Belt]

If u say so. I'd feel incredibly insulted if I were getting to know a man, interested, and then, all of a sudden he said "meet my friend Frank" and walked away from me, ne'er to be seen again.

Frank wouldn't stand a chance

I think you make a good point. They key would be Frank not doing much more than opening.

The idea of buying temperature being transferable in a woman is most useful to guys when they are not associated with whatever raised that temperature. Sometimes it is another guy, but it can also be something like watching 50 Shades of Grey or a Chippendales show, or even just reading a romance novel. Guys with a sensitive ego have trouble with the concept of a girl thinking about any other guy. If a man can just get over that, it makes things a lot easier.

 

[BeExcellent]

I figured I'd get a little flak. That's OK. What works for the two of us won't work for 80-90% of folks but it works for us. That is a large part of why we are together. We understand each other.

Cool, what's the strategy to overcome rejection?

Action. To get out there and face the fear and do it anyway. That is the only way to overcome the fear. Once you learn the fear won't cripple you it will get easier and better. Eventually the fear will vanish.

If u say so. I'd feel incredibly insulted if I were getting to know a man, interested, and then, all of a sudden he said "meet my friend Frank" and walked away from me, ne'er to be seen again.

Frank wouldn't stand a chance

He's not "getting to know" these women in extended conversations. He's merely breaking the ice & opening, creating banter and creating an opportunity for making the introduction. Then he introduces the friend (if its just him winging for a friend) or he introduces me (as his girlfriend) as well as the friend. I mean he'll do this right in front of me and everyone is all smiles. So it's patently obvious that he's not available almost immediately.

In fact I've walked into venues any number of times to find him surrounded by women and the women will see me approaching and they (having never seen or met me before) will say "Oh! You must be the illustrious BE. He's mad about you! He's been talking non-stop about you..." so yes I do find that cute. His father is the same way. The apple is much like the tree.

He enjoys the ego validation of the female attention (obviously) and he maintains a bevy of female acquaintances that he is friendly with...to whom he routinely introduces his buddies. He is a conduit who has paired up several couples we know. He's socially a connector type person, as am I.

She's fine with it. In fact, she thinks it's cute. She knows she's got her man on lock down and she's a confident, self assured woman. Nothing to worry about!

Correct. Seriously correct, no kidding. I actually do not have him on lock down. He has himself on lock down. I give him all the rope he wants and observe his behavior. Then I mirror his behavior in my own way (what is good for the goose is good for the gander.) If he comes closer I come closer. If he flirts with other women, I am conversational with other men. This is a feedback mechanism of sorts that quietly sets and enforces the boundaries but his behavior drives it. The fatal mistake 99% of women make with a man like this is A.) Trying to lock him down *impossible* and B.) Trying to dictate his behavior *even more impossible*

In my world, a man who openly flirts with other women in front of you is either not planning on staying loyal to you and/or is trying to elicit a strong emotional reaction out of you.

If it's a male emotional sh1t test, it usually occurs when he needs more investment from you as a woman. He's feeling like you aren't as into him, as he is to you, so he overtly attempts to cause drama to get your emotions going, so he can see that you do care about him/are invested.

This is also correct. I bolded the parts I think are instructive based on my experience not only with him but with other men of his type. If the attempt to elicit a strong emotional response is recognized by the woman (me) and doesn't work...where does that leave him? It takes away the drama and the control he expects to exert by injecting the drama...and because I simply mirror his behavior (I allow other men to chat with me) then it actually backfires on him and I get the unsolicited "Gee I need to moderate my flirting...I'm sometimes over the top..." to which I just smile and tell him it's charming and I'd never want him to be anyone other than himself (100% True). Basically my response to the behavior in bold above (his behavior which arises from a combination of his natural personality in combination with his own insecurities) creates more anxiety in him, not less...so he moderates it. I don't need to say anything at all. At the same time my actions consistently show him I do care and I am emotionally invested. He sees this loud and clear. He also sees that I respect myself quietly and innately by my actions. This creates respect for me from him.

Much of the dynamic arises, honestly, out of the fact that I have high self esteem. @fastlife and others have noted how high self esteem women behave differently (sometimes in a polar opposite way) from the way neurotic, low self esteem women behave. This is an instructive example of this phenomena. My response to his attempt to inject drama and create fear of loss through overt flirting is precisely the opposite of what low self esteem women do. I have as many choices in the marketplace as he does (he thinks I have MORE choice - he has told me so directly) and so he's replaceable. So am I.

But really that wasn't what the thread was intended to discuss. I find it fascinating that several of his buddies (who are attractive men in their own right) have this rejection fear. It fascinates him too. Its an irrational fear that action over comes.

 

[Spaz]

Buying temperature is transferable. Sales managers take advantage of that, by coming in to do the hard closing after the sales person they supervise has increased buying temperature.

^^ This is true.

This technique is subconsciously used in the real world by everyone and many don't even realise it.

 

[Spaz]

After attending a wedding this past weekend with the boyfriend we got to talking about some of his buddies. These are men with some success in life under their belt, fit, attractive men...they own their own homes, drive nice cars, have good careers, are physically attractive (usually 7-8's) dress well and are cool to hang out with...and who fumble more often than not with women.

My boyfriend (who is known as a player) often opens women for a couple of his buddies, creates attraction, and then passes the women off to his friends. He's a great wing for his pals. But the attraction often fizzles between the women and the friend either at the initial introduction or after a few dates, even after the warm introduction. So the BF and I were discussing why this is.

I think it is a combination of things. I think that the women become attracted to the BF (who is a mad confident 8.5 or so at 6'4" tall, dark & handsome with a very sexually forward vibe), and their attraction for him doesn't translate over to his buddies all that well in the first place and this ties into what the BF thinks the problem is, which is the fear of rejection that his buddies have. That fear of rejection then manifests itself into the analysis paralysis that we often see behind posts here.

You know, the what should I say, how should I text her, the over thinking of Every. Single. Move. And the overthinking kills the natural flow of the interaction and sooner or later kills attraction and interest level.

We both agree that if his buddies would open their own women their success rates would go way up. But they really don't like the possibility of rejection and they get wishy washy about making the approach themselves.

My BF has no fear of rejection. None. Zilch, Zero, Nada. Furthermore he expects a positive reception from women he opens and this routinely fulfills itself. He is a nice looking man but there are men who are more handsome, richer, fitter etc. (although he is a handsome total package), but he can meet anyone, open any woman from an 18 year old to an 80 year old; he is fearless. Does he get snubbed some? Sure. But he doesn't care. It doesn't bother him at all. And that really is the secret.

OK. Problem ID'd. Now what? EMBRACE REJECTION. Get out there and get some cold water in the face. It's brisk. You'll feel alive. It isn't going to kill you but this is a huge fear of so many men. And if you'll have the willingness to get out there and risk rejection you'll find out you don't always get rejected at all. My goodness...you'll have some success!! Look at some of the journaling @narcissist has done. Learn from that. It's transformative with women and life in general.

And don't tell me I'm a chick and I don't understand. That's true but it's not that different than asking for a sale or taking the risk of rejection in a professional negotiation (which I do routinely). The worst someone can say is no! (Ok sometimes it might be Hell No & Go Away) but honestly learn to handle that and you'll become fearless. Fearlessness is sexy!

Embrace the rejection. Quit overthinking everything. Relax.

To your success Gents!

^^Another truth here.

Pleasantly surprised that a woman understands this.

But I'm also surprised that those man who r successful doesn't hv mantras to overcome fear.

A successful man will hv mantras that has been imbued into his psyche so much so it's part and parcel of himself.

 

[fastlife]

Im confused....

Your boyfriend creates attraction between himself and these women and then tries to hand them over to his friends to date?

As if the attraction the women have for your boyfriend will transfer to his friends?

And the women won't feel let down, or like a commodity for being passed off like that?

Is that what you are saying?

You're trying to apply rational logic to emotion. Humans don't associate/anchor their emotions to a given stimuli rationally. For instance, say you had a really bad experience at the dentist's when you were a kid; as an adult you meet a man who's a dentist and feel an instinctive aversion to him, even though he had nothing to do with your experience at the time. Or, say, you go to a concert for your favorite musician whose music elicits strong emotions and then you meet a man who you feel a strong emotional connection with.

All of this happens subconsciously. You feel a strong emotions, then your brain anchors it to whoever/whatever source happens to be the most convenient. It's a system built for efficiency instead of correctness.

So what @BeExcellent's BF does is raise the vibe and then place his friends in positions to become anchors for those emotional spikes. Socially skilled people do this all the time; really socially skilled people do this without ever being the obvious origin for those emotional spikes (unless they want to).

Also re: high self-esteem--as BE mentioned, this is a good illustration of a high self-esteem relationship dynamic. It's still a game but it's a game based around both players embracing & utilizing their best/truest selves instead of one player trying to bring out the worst in the other. A low self-esteem woman would try to stymie her partner's 'state' by pouting, nagging, or creating nuclear jealousy double-bind situations. If her partner was low self-esteem, he would get frustrated at the lack of emotional reactions from BE & would do things to elicit negative reactions (overly overt dread) or make negative assumptions about himself, disqualify himself & blow up the relationship.

 

[Desdinova]

The problem is that those guys can't stand on their own two feet when it comes to women. You get some dude with ba11s the size of watermelons who's surrounded by friends, and he can easily approach women and strike up a conversation with them. Then he takes a fvcking Raggedy Andy doll and sticks that in front of the woman, and it falls flat on it's face.

He'd be a great wing for a guy who can actually hold a conversation, keep a woman interested, and has the ba11s to take things to the next level. That is NOT how most guys are.

 

[sazc]

You're trying to apply rational logic to emotion. Humans don't associate/anchor their emotions to a given stimuli rationally. For instance, say you had a really bad experience at the dentist's when you were a kid; as an adult you meet a man who's a dentist and feel an instinctive aversion to him, even though he had nothing to do with your experience at the time. Or, say, you go to a concert for your favorite musician whose music elicits strong emotions and then you meet a man who you feel a strong emotional connection with.

All of this happens subconsciously. You feel a strong emotions, then your brain anchors it to whoever/whatever source happens to be the most convenient. It's a system built for efficiency instead of correctness.

So what @BeExcellent's BF does is raise the vibe and then place his friends in positions to become anchors for those emotional spikes. Socially skilled people do this all the time; really socially skilled people do this without ever being the obvious origin for those emotional spikes (unless they want to).

Also re: high self-esteem--as BE mentioned, this is a good illustration of a high self-esteem relationship dynamic. It's still a game but it's a game based around both players embracing & utilizing their best/truest selves instead of one player trying to bring out the worst in the other. A low self-esteem woman would try to stymie her partner's 'state' by pouting, nagging, or creating nuclear jealousy double-bind situations. If her partner was low self-esteem, he would get frustrated at the lack of emotional reactions from BE & would do things to elicit negative reactions (overly overt dread) or make negative assumptions about himself, disqualify himself & blow up the relationship.

If you say so. I'm not convinced.

 

[zekko]

My boyfriend (who is known as a player) often opens women for a couple of his buddies, creates attraction, and then passes the women off to his friends. He's a great wing for his pals. But the attraction often fizzles between the women and the friend either at the initial introduction or after a few dates, even after the warm introduction. So the BF and I were discussing why this is.

I think it is a combination of things. I think that the women become attracted to the BF (who is a mad confident 8.5 or so at 6'4" tall, dark & handsome with a very sexually forward vibe), and their attraction for him doesn't translate over to his buddies all that well

Scarcely surprising. Sounds like the buddies don't have enough experience with women to be comfortable and relaxed around them. The higher value the chick is, the more the guy's hormones are going to mess him up (make him tense, nervous, and self conscious). Of course they are going to be more fearful of rejection than a guy who is a 6'4" 8.5, who has had enough success that a few failures aren't going to phase him.

These guys need to get the balls to do their own approaching. If anything, being introduced by a male who is a "mad confident 8.5 or so at 6'4" tall, dark & handsome with a very sexually forward vibe" is just going to make them look worse in comparison. If they really need the help, it would probably be more effective if you did the introducing instead of the BF, and maybe talked them up a bit. It still might not work, but I think there would be a better chance.

By the way, since you say your BF is a "player", does that mean he screws around on you? Or is there not that level of commitment?

 

[Murk]

I don’t like your writing style BE, this is like an advert for how great “the boyfriend” is and how loyal he is to you. This forum is not here for that darling.

I frankly don’t care whether you find him surrounded by a thousand 50 year old women and when you approach they all marvel in awe and tell you how in love he is with you. This is not some descriptive writing forum for bragadocious posting fantasies. You’re basically saying get over fear of rejection by approaching. Ok, got it. Why all the crap story about your guy opening up for his nerd buddies?

 

[BeExcellent]

I don’t like your writing style BE, this is like an advert for how great “the boyfriend” is and how loyal he is to you. This forum is not here for that darling.

I frankly don’t care whether you find him surrounded by a thousand 50 year old women and when you approach they all marvel in awe and tell you how in love he is with you. This is not some descriptive writing forum for bragadocious posting fantasies. You’re basically saying get over fear of rejection by approaching. Ok, got it. Why all the crap story about your guy opening up for his nerd buddies?

Context is useful. Men at all levels struggle with rejection. That's the point. Rejection is universal. Rise above it.

If you don't like me that's cool.

His buddies are not nerds. That's the thing. Yet they still worry about what women think. They still fear rejection from the women they really want. One is a retired NBA player who is plenty successful as an executive & decent looking (very tall obviously, maybe 6'7" or so) and is just rather awkward socially. He's smart & warm once he gets to chatting. No issue socializing with men...but awkward with women he likes.

The other man is himself about 6'3", has a different look than the BF, although is just as handsome and is in better shape (good muscular athletic build I'd guess him to weigh between 190 & 195.) He does great in group banter and women find him attractive but he hates the cold approach. Like really hates it. He's a smart social guy. Somewhat reserved but warm. He gets dates & then after a few dates things fizzle. The ones he doesn't care about chase him. The ones he likes he scares off probably by over thinking & losing frame.

Likely because he becomes outcome dependent.

Both of these men have more financial means than my BF (who does well). So money isn't selecting the girls for them like people think it will. Money and looks and status aren't everything.

Social skills are important too. The rejections are lessons in social skills. Not every chick will dig you. No worries...drive on. I see people here saying when I make X amount of money I'll approach. When I'm in college I'll approach. When I've got the perfect woman picked out I'll approach. Etc etc.

Talk to everybody. Learn to care less what others think. At its core that is what rejection is: allowing someone external to determine your value. Improve your life, increase your value & know your worth. You'll care less and experience less anxiety to chat to women.

@zekko he carries that reputation. He earned it fair & square from what I can tell before he met me. I don't track his every move. I just don't have the energy for that. So far his actions line up with his words. But I can't know for certain what he does every waking second. If he screws around I'll drop him. He knows that. Same goes for me where he's concerned. He likes the BF/GF labels (his idea) and he constantly talking future plans. So I don't really worry about him still playing.

 

[raider87]

I lost interest, and started counting the DHV's for a laugh.

I counted 28 DHV''s in just the initial post (and i'm being very generous). Should be a drinking game.

Agree that this is not of male interest.

Whats a dhv again?

 

[raider87]

Demonstrate higher value. Thanks to google, not the arrogant pom.