How would you of handled this?

[AJ84]

Yeah I dont get how some would say it was OP fault. She didnt want sex, she was just late. 2hr.. if you tolerate this too much you might wake up couple years later with days wasted because of such people

The two hour thing for sure was not respectful esp as they had plans to go somewhere at 8:30 like he said. Can understand being ticked off but the reactionary comment was off. I think if he played it cool and just left to see the band and suggested they meet up somewhere later, basically take back his night, things could of turned out a bit differently but live and learn.

The longer we stew in impatience and frustration over stuff like that the more likely it is we react badly. That's prob what happened here, he waited, then did a nice guy thing and went and got food for them yet was still waiting, and stewing hotter by the minute probably.

I'm sure at the end of the day it's not a big loss to him. It's one girl among many.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

i had same situation with one blonde. we were supposed to go mountains in the morning but she was telling me wait wait wait and in the end we went there when it was late and had to quickly go back cuz you dont walk on mountains when its evening

I dont think she has any reason to do that

Woman is late to event. “OH MY GAWWDD SHE HAS A MENTAL DISORDER RUN AWAY!!1!1!1!1!1!111111”

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

The two hour thing for sure was not respectful esp as they had plans to go somewhere at 8:30 like he said. Can understand being ticked off but the reactionary comment was off. I think if he played it cool and just left to see the band and suggested they meet up somewhere later, basically take back his night, things could of turned out a bit differently but live and learn.

The longer we stew in impatience and frustration over stuff like that the more likely it is we react badly. That's prob what happened here, he waited, then did a nice guy thing and went and got food for them yet was still waiting, and stewing hotter by the minute probably.

I'm sure at the end of the day it's not a big loss to him. It's one girl among many.

Let’s be real here, anyone who’s been at this for a decent amount of time will know not to use the word ‘validation’ like that. Howie meant he called her out for it. Not “you just want public validation for looking pretty”, eww no lol. You’d have to ask but he probably said “yeah yeah yeah, you just like the attention you get don’t you” half sarcastically or something like that. The first comment is clearly a wtf. The second one is more like a ‘you’re an ass because it’s true’, and isn’t as uncalled for really. There are much more diplomatic ways of talking about red pill ‘philosophy’, and in a way that people will side with you on too. I think it’s mostly just a personality thing though.

 

[BeExcellent]

I think this is a comedy of errors in several ways.

I agree with Howie that she was really running quite late (and her assuming this is OK based on prior interactions/sex/intimacy). So my quick take on that is y'all don't know each other well enough yet to know each other's pet peeves/expectations.

This is plainly one of Howie's pet peeves. Frankly I am sympathetic to wanting to see the band & for her not to run so late but you won the battle & lost the war on this one.

Best approach? Be flirty, try to escalate for sex (as you did). Since she was coy about that you pour a libation or glass of wine & you visit with her while she gets ready. You tease her but you relax. She's running very late but she's making an effort for you. You take that one on one time to build rapport.

Then you go out & enjoy the evening. In the future you know she runs late & to either mention it or adjust accordingly (I like @Roober 's approach, perhaps you demote her or dump her after a la @guru1000.)

The best way to manage punctuality going forward is to make your expectations clear in advance. I'm dating a retired military man. Punctuality is his thing. If we agree to go out at 7, he's sometimes there 30 minutes early, ready to go. Obviously I'm not yet ready. So I'll invite him in and he'll say "take your time - I'm early" and I'll pour him a drink & we'll chat while I get my hair finished or whatever. This has got me trained to understand not to lollygag about (I am famous for running late), and that on time/early is important to him.

For NYE he traveled cross country to take me out. It was our first weekend trip/hotel stay etc. The hotel put on an elegant c0cktail hour from 5-6pm with complimentary wine to kick off the evening. He was ready to go downstairs at 5:30. I was still finishing my makeup. So he said "I'm heading down, I'll get you a drink, see you shortly." No discussion, not up for debate, very pleasant...but he wasn't going to wait.

I got done about 15 minutes later & went down. Naturally my date is already engaged in conversation with two attractive women (Of course he is...that's his MO), one of the women was hitting on him outrageously... He passed me my wine, introduced me to his new acquaintances and we all chatted for awhile. No overt communication needed about the timeliness thing whatsoever. We went on to enjoy a lovely evening.

So from a "game" perspective he took the opportunity to display how important punctuality is to him and also took the opportunity to reiterate his SMV in my absence.

Fortunately I read all the subcontext and am not jealous at all. I understand him and how he operates. A less confident woman might have been irritated by what he did on several levels...I was not. Later in the evening he expressed appreciation for the grace & lack of jealousy I exhibited; and I acknowledged that I wasn't ready to go on time. No harm no foul.

I wonder if the angry texts from your date @Howiestern weren't really anger at you setting boundaries, but even if so they weren't set smoothly. You could have set your boundaries more covertly (like my date) and your date could have joined you later at the venue too. The main thing is to be pleasant & direct about it in a gentle way. If it's very early on in the dating process as I mentioned at the outset of the post...you guys are still feeling out what each other's expectations are. We are between 4 & 5 months in so know one another better...but it's never too early to covertly manage an expectation like this.

So that's a little food for thought.

 

[raider87]

You missed a good opportunity for a quick nap before new years.

 

[jaymbrs]

I think this is a comedy of errors in several ways.

I agree with Howie that she was really running quite late (and her assuming this is OK based on prior interactions/sex/intimacy). So my quick take on that is y'all don't know each other well enough yet to know each other's pet peeves/expectations.

This is plainly one of Howie's pet peeves. Frankly I am sympathetic to wanting to see the band & for her not to run so late but you won the battle & lost the war on this one.

Best approach? Be flirty, try to escalate for sex (as you did). Since she was coy about that you pour a libation or glass of wine & you visit with her while she gets ready. You tease her but you relax. She's running very late but she's making an effort for you. You take that one on one time to build rapport.

Then you go out & enjoy the evening. In the future you know she runs late & to either mention it or adjust accordingly (I like @Roober 's approach, perhaps you demote her or dump her after a la @guru1000.)

The best way to manage punctuality going forward is to make your expectations clear in advance. I'm dating a retired military man. Punctuality is his thing. If we agree to go out at 7, he's sometimes there 30 minutes early, ready to go. Obviously I'm not yet ready. So I'll invite him in and he'll say "take your time - I'm early" and I'll pour him a drink & we'll chat while I get my hair finished or whatever. This has got me trained to understand not to lollygag about (I am famous for running late), and that on time/early is important to him.

For NYE he traveled cross country to take me out. It was our first weekend trip/hotel stay etc. The hotel put on an elegant c0cktail hour from 5-6pm with complimentary wine to kick off the evening. He was ready to go downstairs at 5:30. I was still finishing my makeup. So he said "I'm heading down, I'll get you a drink, see you shortly." No discussion, not up for debate, very pleasant...but he wasn't going to wait.

I got done about 15 minutes later & went down. Naturally my date is already engaged in conversation with two attractive women (Of course he is...that's his MO), one of the women was hitting on him outrageously... He passed me my wine, introduced me to his new acquaintances and we all chatted for awhile. No overt communication needed about the timeliness thing whatsoever. We went on to enjoy a lovely evening.

So from a "game" perspective he took the opportunity to display how important punctuality is to him and also took the opportunity to reiterate his SMV in my absence.

Fortunately I read all the subcontext and am not jealous at all. I understand him and how he operates. A less confident woman might have been irritated by what he did on several levels...I was not. Later in the evening he expressed appreciation for the grace & lack of jealousy I exhibited; and I acknowledged that I wasn't ready to go on time. No harm no foul.

I wonder if the angry texts from your date @Howiestern weren't really anger at you setting boundaries, but even if so they weren't set smoothly. You could have set your boundaries more covertly (like my date) and your date could have joined you later at the venue too. The main thing is to be pleasant & direct about it in a gentle way. If it's very early on in the dating process as I mentioned at the outset of the post...you guys are still feeling out what each other's expectations are. We are between 4 & 5 months in so know one another better...but it's never too early to covertly manage an expectation like this.

So that's a little food for thought.

Sorry but this sounds like you took a scene from Eyes Wide Shut. Not everyone is going to be able to be as perfectly smooth as your date, nor as great looking as he sounds and be able to pull off the same stuff you claim he does.

 

[sazc]

I think this is a comedy of errors in several ways.

I agree with Howie that she was really running quite late (and her assuming this is OK based on prior interactions/sex/intimacy). So my quick take on that is y'all don't know each other well enough yet to know each other's pet peeves/expectations.

This is plainly one of Howie's pet peeves. Frankly I am sympathetic to wanting to see the band & for her not to run so late but you won the battle & lost the war on this one.

Best approach? Be flirty, try to escalate for sex (as you did). Since she was coy about that you pour a libation or glass of wine & you visit with her while she gets ready. You tease her but you relax. She's running very late but she's making an effort for you. You take that one on one time to build rapport.

Then you go out & enjoy the evening. In the future you know she runs late & to either mention it or adjust accordingly (I like @Roober 's approach, perhaps you demote her or dump her after a la @guru1000.)

The best way to manage punctuality going forward is to make your expectations clear in advance. I'm dating a retired military man. Punctuality is his thing. If we agree to go out at 7, he's sometimes there 30 minutes early, ready to go. Obviously I'm not yet ready. So I'll invite him in and he'll say "take your time - I'm early" and I'll pour him a drink & we'll chat while I get my hair finished or whatever. This has got me trained to understand not to lollygag about (I am famous for running late), and that on time/early is important to him.

For NYE he traveled cross country to take me out. It was our first weekend trip/hotel stay etc. The hotel put on an elegant c0cktail hour from 5-6pm with complimentary wine to kick off the evening. He was ready to go downstairs at 5:30. I was still finishing my makeup. So he said "I'm heading down, I'll get you a drink, see you shortly." No discussion, not up for debate, very pleasant...but he wasn't going to wait.

I got done about 15 minutes later & went down. Naturally my date is already engaged in conversation with two attractive women (Of course he is...that's his MO), one of the women was hitting on him outrageously... He passed me my wine, introduced me to his new acquaintances and we all chatted for awhile. No overt communication needed about the timeliness thing whatsoever. We went on to enjoy a lovely evening.

So from a "game" perspective he took the opportunity to display how important punctuality is to him and also took the opportunity to reiterate his SMV in my absence.

Fortunately I read all the subcontext and am not jealous at all. I understand him and how he operates. A less confident woman might have been irritated by what he did on several levels...I was not. Later in the evening he expressed appreciation for the grace & lack of jealousy I exhibited; and I acknowledged that I wasn't ready to go on time. No harm no foul.

I wonder if the angry texts from your date @Howiestern weren't really anger at you setting boundaries, but even if so they weren't set smoothly. You could have set your boundaries more covertly (like my date) and your date could have joined you later at the venue too. The main thing is to be pleasant & direct about it in a gentle way. If it's very early on in the dating process as I mentioned at the outset of the post...you guys are still feeling out what each other's expectations are. We are between 4 & 5 months in so know one another better...but it's never too early to covertly manage an expectation like this.

So that's a little food for thought.

@BeExcellent in one of your very recent posts you referred to your boyfriend. I remember reading it and wondering which man you had finally settled on - wondering if the liar had settled down or you had moved on. I wanted to ask but I wasnt in a place to post.

Whom were you referring too? Did the liar settle down? This man? or (I gently ask) do you use the term boyfriend casually?

 

[RichardTheFrog]

@BeExcellent in one of your very recent posts you referred to your boyfriend. I remember reading it and wondering which man you had finally settled on - wondering if the liar had settled down or you had moved on. I wanted to ask but I wasnt in a place to post.

Whom were you referring too? Did the liar settle down? This man? or (I gently ask) do you use the term boyfriend casually?

The Spanish guy who cheats on her every chance he gets haha.

Because she's so "high value."

 

[BeExcellent]

@BeExcellent in one of your very recent posts you referred to your boyfriend. I remember reading it and wondering which man you had finally settled on - wondering if the liar had settled down or you had moved on. I wanted to ask but I wasnt in a place to post.

Whom were you referring too? Did the liar settle down? This man? or (I gently ask) do you use the term boyfriend casually?

I'm referring to the man I spent NYE with who I have been dating for 5 months. He calls me his girlfriend & his lady so boyfriend is a label I am cool using....Whether or not he's the "liar" I can't say without context. Give me a thread or quote to go from.

Things are going along well. Have we had "The Talk?" Sort of. I don't really do "The Talk" as much as I watch his actions. If he stops choosing to make me a priority, I'll recieve that message. If I decide to refuse him time with me, he will get the message. We both deal in actions.

PM me if you are further curious. I'd rather not sidetrack Howie's thread.

 

[BeExcellent]

Sorry but this sounds like you took a scene from Eyes Wide Shut. Not everyone is going to be able to be as perfectly smooth as your date, nor as great looking as he sounds and be able to pull off the same stuff you claim he does.

I've not seen Eyes Wide Shut. He's extremely smooth and understands game inside & out. Becoming better at male/female interactions is the reason many post here. So I added that information because it might be useful to somebody who aspires to that level of inner game & also give insight about how females relate to that sort of behavior.

 

[sazc]

I'm referring to the man I spent NYE with who I have been dating for 5 months. He calls me his girlfriend & his lady so boyfriend is a label I am cool using....Whether or not he's the "liar" I can't say without context. Give me a thread or quote to go from.

Things are going along well. Have we had "The Talk?" Sort of. I don't really do "The Talk" as much as I watch his actions. If he stops choosing to make me a priority, I'll recieve that message. If I decide to refuse him time with me, he will get the message. We both deal in actions.

PM me if you are further curious. I'd rather not sidetrack Howie's thread.

Idk that Howie would mind your reply on the forum - the conversation is not only interesting, but a good teaching tool.

"The liar" I'm referring to the man who told fibs/lies/little white lies to people in front of you, at a social gathering, and he knew full well that you would know he was lying, and could possibly call him out, but did it anyways in front of you.

Is this that same guy? If not, what happened to him?

 

[marmel75]

Again...all I can say is you should probably work on your seduction skills. Its not a strong suit of yours.

 

[BeExcellent]

Idk that Howie would mind your reply on the forum - the conversation is not only interesting, but a good teaching tool.

"The liar" I'm referring to the man who told fibs/lies/little white lies to people in front of you, at a social gathering, and he knew full well that you would know he was lying, and could possibly call him out, but did it anyways in front of you.

Is this that same guy? If not, what happened to him?

Same guy. I thought there was something big & specific you were referring to (and I can't recall every single thing I say on every thread.)

As I get to know him better I see more how he operates and why. People tell white lies all the time. So I'm aware he does this. He's aware I know he does this. My ex husband told white lies as well...I do at times, etc. That's part of the reason actions are more important. People can say whatever they like...and may say things that are meant to save face/preserve someone's feelings/soothe someone etc.

And yes some lies are rooted in purposeful deception.

Examples:

Telling a fatally wounded person they are going to be ok (this is a lie that is seated in comforting/reassuring someone such as in a battlefield injury)

Telling someone you had a lousy date with that you really enjoyed yourself (this is a lie seated in politeness and conflict avoidance.)

Telling someone you have no intention of calling that you'll call them (this is a lie also of politeness.)

I am not a fan of substantial lies and I am careful not to decieve. That creates webs of BS that cannot be kept straight. I strive for transparency. But let's face it, society and social interactions are lubricated with white lies and lies of omission constantly.

Think of the guys here who are spinning plates with different girls who think they are the sole recipient of a given man's attention. Those are lies of omission and that is constantly promoted as a strategy here and in "game" generally.

Most excuses for most anything are some sort of lie.

This is why observation of actions is important. Especially observation of action OVER TIME. It is MUCH harder to deceive through action. Actions tell the real story.

 

[sazc]

Same guy. I thought there was something big & specific you were referring to (and I can't recall every single thing I say on every thread.)

As I get to know him better I see more how he operates and why. People tell white lies all the time. So I'm aware he does this. He's aware I know he does this. My ex husband told white lies as well...I do at times, etc. That's part of the reason actions are more important. People can say whatever they like...and may say things that are meant to save face/preserve someone's feelings/soothe someone etc.

And yes some lies are rooted in purposeful deception.

Examples:

Telling a fatally wounded person they are going to be ok (this is a lie that is seated in comforting/reassuring someone such as in a battlefield injury)

Telling someone you had a lousy date with that you really enjoyed yourself (this is a lie seated in politeness and conflict avoidance.)

Telling someone you have no intention of calling that you'll call them (this is a lie also of politeness.)

I am not a fan of substantial lies and I am careful not to decieve. That creates webs of BS that cannot be kept straight. I strive for transparency. But let's face it, society and social interactions are lubricated with white lies and lies of omission constantly.

Think of the guys here who are spinning plates with different girls who think they are the sole recipient of a given man's attention. Those are lies of omission and that is constantly promoted as a strategy here and in "game" generally.

Most excuses for most anything are some sort of lie.

This is why observation of actions is important. Especially observation of action OVER TIME. It is MUCH harder to deceive through action. Actions tell the real story.

Got it. Huh, I thought him telling these lies bothered you more. I guess I read it wrong.

We have a different philosophy when it comes to this. I can't trust a man who feels the need to lie/fib/embellish etc. Even if the lie, etc, is not directed to me, the fact that he thinks I'll enable his deceit (allow him to be untruthful right in front of me, without me calling him on it) makes me feel like he has dysfunctional expectations of people. It makes me feel he is broken at his core. I don't want to date anyone broken. I can't respect these qualities in anyone. Can't date someone I don't respect.

That's just me tho. I don't tolerate dishonesty. I want to be able to trust implicitly. You didn't need to justify your decision to be with him via your long reply explaining why it's okay for you be with him/minimizing his behavior. We all have different expectations from the people we date.

I assume he is well off? Probably attentive in time, emotions and gifts? I assume these are the actions you are referring to?

 

[BeExcellent]

There is not a person on the planet who is 100% honest 100% of the time about 100% of things. I don't mind saying that because it's a true statement. Life is not that binary black and white. I didn't justify a thing.

Rather I went to the trouble explaining my stance not for the purpose of justification but because I understood that the covert purpose of your question in the first place was to run him down and at the same time impugne my character. Otherwise why would you categorize him as "the liar?" Everyone here could be categorized thusly, including you through your intent in asking this question of me.

You have done exactly as I anticipated, which is fine and perhaps instructive to the reader. My approach to life is pragmatic. I am a "Trust but Verify" proponent (which is why I advise observation of actions rather than taking words at face value.)

I have explained in other threads why he appeals to me. It isn't resources.

I'll await the "Who....Me?" indignation.

 

[AriMamba]

I had been out with this girl a few times before Christmas. Already had sex. We made plans to go out New Years eve. I was supposed to be at her house at 7:00-7:30 and we would leave from there. I showed up close to 7 and she answers the door in her bath robe. She had just started a bath and was no where close to being ready.

I waited patiently for 2hrs with no attitude although I voiced my displeasure. At the 2.5hr mark I got up and told her she could meet me there and I left. And it was hard to do, she was looking super hot. She tried to tell me she was making herself look good for me, I told her she was full of schitt she was doing so for validation just like every girl does.

Now I was the biggest azzhole on the planet. I got a slew of angry texts and she never showed up.

I ended up hanging out by myself at the bar for a while, hit on a waitress, and then hung out with some friends that showed up so the evening was still good. Only thing I lost out on was sex.

How would you of handled this situation? She was probably 15minutes away from being ready. But my patience was long gone.

Wait are we being Punk’d or something?

 

[sazc]

There is not a person on the planet who is 100% honest 100% of the time about 100% of things. I don't mind saying that because it's a true statement. Life is not that binary black and white. I didn't justify a thing.

Rather I went to the trouble explaining my stance not for the purpose of justification but because I understood that the covert purpose of your question in the first place was to run him down and at the same time impugne my character. Otherwise why would you categorize him as "the liar?" Everyone here could be categorized thusly, including you through your intent in asking this question of me.

You have done exactly as I anticipated, which is fine and perhaps instructive to the reader. My approach to life is pragmatic. I am a "Trust but Verify" proponent (which is why I advise observation of actions rather than taking words at face value.)

I have explained in other threads why he appeals to me. It isn't resources.

I'll await the "Who....Me?" indignation.

Yikes!

So you and I had a public chat about this man where I directly said "if he would lie to others, especially in front of you, he would lie to you without hesitating"

At that time you seemed FULLY onboard with what I was saying, agreeing with me that this behavior was extremely off putting to you. IIRC it was so off putting that you openly acknowledged you were questioning a future with him because of this.

This is why I am surprised that you have decided to give this behavior a pass and continue dating him, even calling him your boyfriend.

Maybe I misunderstood the gravity with which you took issue with this behavior.

Other then that - chill chica. It's not life and death.

Nice profile pic btw. I assume that is you?

 

[marmel75]

Yikes!

So you and I had a public chat about this man where I directly said "if he would lie to others, especially in front of you, he would lie to you without hesitating"

At that time you seemed FULLY onboard with what I was saying, agreeing with me that this behavior was extremely off putting to you. IIRC it was so off putting that you openly acknowledged you were questioning a future with him because of this.

This is why I am surprised that you have decided to give this behavior a pass and continue dating him, even calling him your boyfriend.

Maybe I misunderstood the gravity with which you took issue with this behavior.

Other then that - chill chica. It's not life and death.

Nice profile pic btw. I assume that is you?

I have to agree with @BeExcellent on this matter. Nobody who has ever lived has told the truth all the time. Not even you. The person you are with has probably told a lie within the past week, whethee you know about it or not.

However my preference is always to just leave out details that either you dont want someone to know or they dont need to know.

Not divulging information they didn't ask for is not lying.

 

[sazc]

I have to agree with @BeExcellent on this matter. Nobody who has ever lived has told the truth all the time.

However my preference is always to just leave out details that eithe you dont want someone to know or they dont need to know.

I never said anyone was 100% truthful all the time. That's not my point either.

My surprise is that she openly expressed genuine distaste because this man lied to people in front of her and he did it knowing she would recognize it as a lie as soon as she heard it. She then went on to question if she wants to date a man of that calibur. She and I briefly chatted about that. Now she is calling him her boyfriend.

I guess I assumed she would choose differently. My assumption that she would easily kick a liar to the curb with ease was based on the fact that she always had an abundance of men chasing her (her words). I'm surprised she wouldn't choose someone else. But I'm just surprised, not trying to judge, not trying to bunch anyone's panties.

I, personally, don't find myself in situations where I need to lie. If I am making that decision, it is to spare sometimes feelings. Like I didn't tell @bigneil that his GF looked like a teenager when he pm'ed me a pic of them. I simply stated "she's pretty". He then got mad at me later, accusing me of being a fraud when I came clean on the boards. He wasn't wrong, lol, but he's so fragile, I couldn't be mean....

Other then that, I don't find myself, my ego, needing to lie to people. And I move FAR away from people who feel I am the kind of enabler who wont call them on their dysfunctional $hit.

Again, that's just me and my viewpoint. Don't take what I say as a personal attack.

 

[sazc]

Let me reframe this.

If you were dating a woman for 2-3 months and she openly lied about herself/something, in front of you, to people you were both talking to, and she also knew that you would know instantly she was lying..... Wouldn't that leave a bad taste in your mouth? Wouldn't you question her character? Straight red flag. Eventually she would be classified as an NPD on these boards.

Personally, I would have a conversation about that moment, the next day/when it was convenient. Specifically call out the situation, the lie, and find out why it happened.

The explanation and or excuses would dictate my response to the relationship.

Any attempt to excuse or justify the behavior would have me moving along.

That's just me tho.