How some women “commit” in an LTR

bigneil

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bigneil hereby challenges @guru1000 to a boxing match in Atlanta, GA (the main airport in the US - bigneil will cover his/her airfare). This will be live streamed. Bigneil is 47 year old.

Over the past 6 months, since June 30, 2017, bigneil receive 840 Likes to gayru1000's 776, despite guru getting bigneil banned for 3 months for calling him a homeowner.

 

guru1000

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bigneil hereby challenges @guru1000 to a boxing match in Atlanta, GA (the main airport in the US - bigneil will cover his/her airfare). This will be live streamed. Bigneil is 47 year old.

Over the past 6 months, since June 30, 2017, bigneil receive 840 Likes to gayru1000's 776, despite guru getting bigneil banned for 3 months for calling him a homeowner.

I reject your match, as it wouldn't be equal. But I'll be more than happy to knock you out if you elect to come to NY. One caveat, you come to Guru, JFK airport and no gloves. This way it'll be a drive-by knockout, not much time expended but much entertainment. Just ensure the video guy catches the two seconds of "fight" time.

As to likes, LOL:

Your ratio post system change: 3000 posts, 2500 likes. 83% change

Guru's ratio:1030 posts, 2099 likes, 203% change.

How does it feel to be the lesser man in EVERY way NEILing? The audience of SoSuave would love to know.
 

bigneil

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Of course you reject it. You little bleach-blonde Asian with colored contacts. F*ck you. Blocked.
 

guru1000

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Of course you reject it. You little bleach-blonde Asian with colored contacts. F*ck you. Blocked.
Haha, I'm the first person NEILing blocked.

I'm honored.

To serve as a lesson to you gentlemen: As the ego gets usurped, it can't handle the truth.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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Haha, I'm the first person NEILing blocked.

I'm honored.

To serve as a lesson to you gentlemen: As the ego gets usurped, it can't handle the truth.
Get the **** out, I was the first one to be blocked by neil: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/every-single-one-of-you-is-an-abuser-of-women.245322/page-5

Only I could do this to him of course. Look at this specific post I made as a joke: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/thread...an-abuser-of-women.245322/page-4#post-2496868

:D:D:D:D:D
 

guru1000

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@guru1000 this is a really good question and point, and one I think a lot of men on these boards need to start identifying in the females they see, and need coaching on how to handle it. This is part of what screening, standards and boundaries are about.

Di you have a one stop shop answer for/to the female that is pissy because she feels you are falling short of meeting her needs - yet they are really wants...?
When I state "meeting her needs," I am referring to mentally healthy women.

Qualifying and dismissing women should be the staple of a DJ's diet. Men should always hold their finger on the NEXT trigger and pull should signs of mental illness arise.
 

Roober

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Just read something on Corey Wayne that I think nicely correlates with this thread...

First and foremost, you must only make a partner of a woman with integrity. Fishing out that integrity takes time, I would say 6 months to one year. Only at that point can you truly determine if you are meeting her needs. Women with good integrity will not be hypergamous by nature, and not jump ship the next shiny new toy. If she lacks integrity, she may essentially jump ship at any time in the relationship, looking to upgrade her current situation. When thinking of a woman without integrity, think a true "attention *****", gold digger, or any other arbitrary label in the manosphere.

If she jumps ship easily, one of two things happened...

1) You did not read her level of integrity well
or
2) You had a woman with good integrity, but were not meeting her needs

If you filtered properly for a woman with intergrity and are doing everything you need to do as a man, hypergamy is dead...

Think about it... Rollo, one of the big founders and key figures in the manosphere. Is he married or single? Does he worry about hypergamy? Either he is a complete fake, or has met both 1 and 2 above.
 

malz1

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1) Definition One serves status. Definition Two serves status and wealth (as to provide for offspring requires money). Whether you choose Definition One, Definition Two, or both doesn't invalidate the argument that some women will trade "down" (within the scope of status, wealth, or both), hence hypergamy is invalid in such contexts.

2) Identifying needs deals with her "story." Open her story, look for the "holes," and you will find the needs. For operating examples, feel free to create a thread in how to Identify Needs vs. Wants.

3) "Has eyes for you" was already clarified as "Meeting her needs." For purposes of discussion, both are homogeneous and interchangeable.

When you can logically explain why women trade "down," then we can continue. Otherwise, the Needs Theory supersedes Hypergamy Theory.
Too easy.
1. We both know definition 1 and 2 "serve" status. The issue revolves around HOW they serve status, and this nuance completely changes the meanings behind the definitions of which you'd used for supporting your counter point against hypergamy. You've practically built a strawman's argument for your cause. You additionally tried to force "provide for" to imply money to make a point about females who leave wealthy guys as an example against hypergamy, but "provide for" can mean resources and security other than money. Just another part of your strawman. From your other examples, it appears you're trying to make status limited in dimension so you can make a "contradiction" while ignoring its other forms. You even tried to throw in the words "scope" and "such contexts" to cover your butt. Naughty ;)

Also, I think you're confused about the relationship between hypergamy occuring as a real phenomenon and the definitions used to describe it. Whether a female trades down or not, doesn't "invalidate" hypergamy as referenced. Both definitions are logically CONSISTENT with the idea of a female trading down. For example (ea. corresponds to def. 1 & 2); 1. Someone might walk down a street most days but that doesnt mean the ACTION of running doesn't occur or that he won't later run down it. 2. Vegetarians may not eat meat, but that doesn't mean that they lack the INSTINCTUAL DESIRE to eat meat.


2. It's generally already understood on what you meant by "eyes on you" to the extent of what we can interpret by what you meant with "meeting her needs." The problem is the vagueness of that phrase and verifying the whole if-then hypothetical I wanted addressed, not just sort of knowing the butchered cut-out quote you just responded with. The hypothetical 'if a unicorn is whole, then it has a horn" is a true statement, but it has no existential grounds because unicorns don't exist. Your statement is worse than this because it's too vague to even pinpoint existential requirements and observe their consequent relations. And even if precise and true, it's assumed that such needs can be fulfilled when it's entirely possible for them not to be and the hypothetical being as useless as the true unicorn statement. Futhermore I dare ask, what if there are needs that can be fulfilled and their hypergamy, by the "desire definition," just stops? Can't her needs just change quickly, making your hypothetical near useless? We can't know.

Fun note - What's ironic: is that by accepting both definitions, you've legitimized both. And the logical equivalent to your hypothetical is basically "if her hypergamy is alive, then she doesn't only have eyes on you". We all know the 1st definition you accepted occurs in real life, so hypergamous women then, are trading up for men who don't meet their needs. Therefore, hypergamy is alive and needs aren't being met, which puts into question why you even call "needs," needs. I would say you'd ultimately contradicted the notion of the very idea of "needs" but we now know that a "need" isnt a need now, making it even more obscure to know anything about it to judge it!
 
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guru1000

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malz1 said:
Too easy.
1. We both know definition 1 and 2 "serve" status. The issue revolves around HOW they serve status, and this nuance completely changes the meanings behind the definitions of which you'd used for supporting your counter point against hypergamy. You've practically built a strawman's argument for your cause. You additionally tried to force "provide for" to imply money to make a point about females who leave wealthy guys as an example against hypergamy, but "provide for" can mean resources and security other than money.
Erroneous insofar as how does one best provide for offspring without money as the primary resource in the current environment we live in?

In arguendo, fallaciously adopting that “best provide for offspring” meant “food and shelter which could be bought without money,” doesn't invalidate the argument that some women will trade "down" (within the scope of status alone), hence hypergamy is invalid in such contexts.

Just another part of your strawman. From your other examples, it appears you're trying to make status limited in dimension so you can make a "contradiction" while ignoring its other forms. You even tried to throw in the words "scope" and "such contexts" to cover your butt. Naughty


1. Someone might walk down a street most days but that doesnt mean the ACTION of running doesn't occur or that he won't later run down it.
If a theory does not hold under certain circumstances --not delineated as exceptions--then the theory is invalid.

Accordingly, the very act of trading down is not a delineated exception to, and thus contradicts, Hypergamy.

Diametrically, the superseding Needs Theory explains trading down and trading up.

2. Vegetarians may not eat meat, but that doesn't mean that they lack the INSTINCTUAL DESIRE to eat meat.
You attempt to validate hypergamy by alleging there is a desire without means to validate that such a desire exists?

E.g. Every woman has an instinctual desire to eat blackberries. ==>New Theory: Blackberry Theory

2. It's generally already understood on what you meant by "eyes on you" to the extent of what we can interpret by what you meant with "meeting her needs." The problem is the vagueness of that phrase and verifying the whole if-then hypothetical I wanted addressed, not just sort of knowing the butchered cut-out quote you just responded with. The hypothetical 'if a unicorn is whole, then it has a horn" is a true statement, but it has no existential grounds because unicorns don't exist. Your statement is worse than this because it's too vague to even pinpoint existential requirements and observe their consequent relations. And even if precise and true, it's assumed that such needs can be fulfilled when it's entirely possible for them not to be and the hypothetical being as useless as the true unicorn statement. Futhermore I dare ask, what if there are needs that can be fulfilled and their hypergamy, by the "desire definition," just stops? Can't her needs just change quickly, making your hypothetical near useless? We can't know.
Erroneous insofar as individual’s needs are concrete and could be objectively measured with accuracy, whereas a unicorn cannot be found.

Your attempt to compare the two even as an analogy demonstrates “hyperbolic reaching” due to the clear weakness of your position.

Needs don’t change quickly as they are indoctrinated “workings” conditioned and reinforced throughout a lifetime. Though, they can change in time with new conditioning.

Fun note - What's ironic: is that by accepting both definitions, you've legitimized both. And the logical equivalent to your hypothetical is basically "if her hypergamy is alive, then she doesn't only have eyes on you". We all know the 1st definition you accepted occurs in real life, so hypergamous women then, are trading up for men who don't meet their needs. Therefore, hypergamy is alive and needs aren't being met, which puts into question why you even call "needs," needs. I would say you'd ultimately contradicted the notion of the very idea of "needs" but we now know that a "need" isnt a need now, making it even more obscure to know anything about it to judge it!
The original quote, “If she has eyes for you, hypergamy is dead” <> “if her hypergamy is alive, then she doesn't only have eyes on you".

If X then Y <> If not Y, then not X.

By reversing the order of a condition, you invalidate the equation.

The fallacies in your argument invalidates Hypergamy Theory further. Thanks for the support.
 

malz1

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Erroneous insofar as how does one best provide for offspring without money as the primary resource in the current environment we live in?
Bruh.. I don't think you know how to interpret definitions well. No offense. Also, it's still silly that you're referencing both definitions... but I'll play.
No definition provided confined hypergamy to the current environment, and even so human nature doesn't care about the current environment. Money is simply a means to get the "resources" and that means can still go away. Think of poorer countries with inhabitants that get by without money. Does the occurrence of hypergamy just go away? Of course not. The guy working his ass off gathering resources can better provide than the guy who lazes around. A more extreme example is a person who has millions of dollars worth of essential assets without a cent on hand would be a better provider than the person with a hundred bucks. Money by all means can promote hypergamous conditions, but hypergamy by definition doesn't need money.

In arguendo, fallaciously adopting that “best provide for offspring” meant “food and shelter which could be bought without money,” doesn't invalidate the argument that so me women will trade "down" (within the scope of status alone), hence hypergamy is invalid in such contexts.
Here we are picking and choosing our definitions again to suit the moment. You were just defending the "best provide for offspring" condition of the 2nd definition in the above rhethorical question to support a point, and now you want to exclude it to just status, changing the meaning itself! Also, your argument about how trading down "refutes hypergamy" is based on the assumption that both are inconsistent. I proved hypergamy to be consistent with trading down using my counter-examples - the consistent logical structure being the point here, not the irrelevant content.



If a theory does not hold under certain circumstances --not delineated as exceptions--then the theory is invalid.

Accordingly, the very act of trading down is not a delineated exception to, and thus contradicts, Hypergamy.

Diametrically, the superseding Needs Theory explains trading down and trading up.
This is saying nothing but putting us back to square one. The central hidden premise here is that the "very act of trading down doesn't hold the hypergamy theory," which itself is at the heart of the issue and has already been made false with my counter-examples. Additional note: Using loaded sentences with terms like "fallaciously" doesn't make my statements any less true.



You attempt to validate hypergamy by alleging there is a desire without means to validate that such a desire exists?

E.g. Every woman has an instinctual desire to eat blackberries. ==>New Theory: Blackberry Theory
I said no such thing. My examples weren't meant to assert anything, but prove the possibility of hypergamy and thus its consistency. Its consistency has been proven and reveals your "argument" to be unsound.



Erroneous insofar as individual’s needs are concrete and could be objectively measured with accuracy, whereas a unicorn cannot be found.

Your attempt to compare the two even as an analogy demonstrates “hyperbolic reaching” due to the clear weakness of your position.

Needs don’t change quickly as they are indoctrinated “workings” conditioned and reinforced throughout a lifetime. Though, they can change in time with new conditioning.
Nah, I should have just watered it down, no offense. The point is that your concept of needs is not understood by anyone, so even if your hypothetical were true, how could we verify those needs for it to have any substance? The unicorn statement, though true, doesn't have an existential bearing. If your statement is true, how can we test its existential bearing to separate it from being just a fantasy, but true statement, like the unicorn? You're always talking around as to what "need" means, but the closer we inspect it the more absurd it gets. Hyperbolic reaching? lol...bro. Get a course in logic and you'll hopefully see future "analogies" like this right away.



The original quote, “If she has eyes for you, hypergamy is dead” <> “if her hypergamy is alive, then she doesn't only have eyes on you".

If X then Y <> If not Y, then not X.

By reversing the order of a condition, you invalidate the equation.

The fallacies in your argument invalidates Hypergamy Theory further. Thanks for the support.
LOL do you even logic bro? First off, it's not "equation." It's logical syllogism. WFF. Or form. Secondly, I didn't reverse anything. I constructed a logical proof of which the premise and conclusion were logically equivalent. Really. Among the several material conditional equivalence laws, [If X then Y] IF AND ONLY IF [If not Y then not X]. So in other words, it's impossible for both the premise to be true and the conclusion false. So, a valid argument. As for it being sound, well, that depends on your obscure idea of "needs".

Additional note: Your original quote is actually
When a girl has eyes only for you, hypergamy is dead.
C'mon man, you can at least fact-check your own stuff. You even have it in bold font! lol
In all serious, this has been entertaining and I enjoy your stubbornness in a non-condescending way.
 
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guru1000

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You're reiterating the same frivolous lines already debunked. Desperate? Here... let me help with requotes:

Bruh.. I don't think you know how to interpret definitions well. No offense. Also, it's still silly that you're referencing both definitions... but I'll play.
No definition provided confined hypergamy to the current environment, and even so human nature doesn't care about the current environment. Money is simply a means to get the "resources" and that means can still go away. Think of poorer countries with inhabitants that get by without money. Does the occurrence of hypergamy just go away? Of course not. The guy working his ass off gathering resources can better provide than the guy who lazes around. A more extreme example is a person who has millions of dollars worth of essential assets without a cent on hand would be a better provider than the person with a hundred bucks. Money by all means can promote hypergamous conditions, but hypergamy by definition doesn't need money.
Guru1000 said:
In arguendo, fallaciously adopting that “best provide for offspring” [meant not dealing with money] doesn't invalidate the argument that some women will trade "down" (within the scope of status alone), hence hypergamy is invalid in such contexts.
Malz said:
Here we are picking and choosing our definitions again to suit the moment. You were just defending the "best provide for offspring" condition of the 2nd definition in the above rhethorical question to support a point, and now you want to exclude it to just status, changing the meaning itself! Also, your argument about how trading down "refutes hypergamy" is based on the assumption that both are inconsistent. I proved hypergamy to be consistent with trading down using my counter-examples - the consistent logical structure being the point here, not the irrelevant content.

This is saying nothing but putting us back to square one. The central hidden premise here is that the "very act of trading down doesn't hold the hypergamy theory," which itself is at the heart of the issue and has already been made false with my counter-examples.
Counter Example 1:

Malz said:
1. Someone might walk down a street most days but that doesnt mean the ACTION of running doesn't occur or that he won't later run down it.
Guru1000 said:
If a theory does not hold under certain circumstances --not delineated as exceptions--then the theory is invalid.

Accordingly, the very act of trading down is not a delineated exception to, and thus contradicts, Hypergamy
Counter Example 2:

Malz said:
2. Vegetarians may not eat meat, but that doesn't mean that they lack the INSTINCTUAL DESIRE to eat meat.
Guru1000 said:
You attempt to validate hypergamy by alleging there is a desire without means to validate that such a desire exists?
E.g. Every woman has an instinctual desire to eat blackberries. ==>New Theory: Blackberry Theory
Next:
Malz said:
Nah, I should have just watered it down, no offense. The point is that your concept of needs is not understood by anyone, so even if your hypothetical were true, how could we verify those needs for it to have any substance? The unicorn statement, though true, doesn't have an existential bearing. If your statement is true, how can we test its existential bearing to separate it from being just a fantasy, but true statement, like the unicorn? You're always talking around as to what "need" means, but the closer we inspect it the more absurd it gets. Hyperbolic reaching? lol...bro. Get a course in logic and you'll hopefully see future "analogies" like this right away.
Here is the only original thought you presented in your last post.

You state "needs" have no existential bearing. How about your "need" to fck, to educate, to make money, to date, to marry, not to marry, for companionship, to be alone, for direction, for a leader, to lead, to be heard, not to be heard, for family, to be family-less, inter alia.

Your needs subjectively incite from your indoctrination. Are you stating that you have no needs that you can identify? So much so that you find identifying a need analogous to identifying a unicorn. LOL.

You really have no legs to stand on, heh. This is what is meant by "hyperbolic reaching” due to the clear weakness of your position.

Now bring a counterpoint that doesn't lose its legs. Let me help you and reiterate, as you still have seemed to think that the money interpretation had any relevance to the argument :

Show me how women trading down in status does not negate women trading up in status a/k/a hypergamy.
 
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guru1000

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Merit of the argument is the same.
Someone might walk down a street most days but that doesnt mean the ACTION of running doesn't occur or that he won't later run down it.
=>Someone might trade down most days but that doesn't mean the ACTION of trading up doesn't occur or that she won't trade up later.

So he agrees that Hypergamy is not the governing impetus for female behavior. What about you?
 

malz1

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Merit of the argument is the same.

=>Someone might trade down most days but that doesn't mean the ACTION of trading up doesn't occur or that she won't trade up later.

So he agrees that Hypergamy is not the governing impetus for female behavior. What about you?
OK bud. There was a reason why I tried to wrap things up in my last post. Even though your points have ridiculously adopted and dropped ideas as you saw fit and hid under a layer of obscurity, your arguments have effectively been refuted and assertions shown to be false or meaningless. It's apparent that you're having trouble interpreting definitions and some of the responses in here too. It's clear that you're finished man. Just take the L. We're all here to learn the truth of the world, not push our personal beliefs. Many intelligent guys in here are calling out your dogma but all criticism is going right past you. You seem like the type of guy to want to save face, so I hope in private that you self-reflect and challenge your own beliefs. Hypergamy isn't going away because of you. I'm sure you pushed out a lot of valuable information on this site as well, so losing on this won't really affect your respectability. What will is being that guy who just wants to win arguments. You know it's becoming too much when the logical syllogisms are pulled out on a site to pickup women lol.

EDIT:
As an attractive man, I've had the privilege of witnessing hypergamy in action where a woman would drop her man at the drop of a hat or make advances when she barely knew me. Didn't matter if they were married or pregnant, their primal lust would just come out. Instant make-outs, cat calls, women sexually grabbing me; - these things didn't require a list of needs. Sometimes it happens before I even say anything, but when interacting the signs of lust become more apparent in her face where I can just bring it out. I even have a short video of such a situation where I take a dude's girl right in front of him in like 1/2 a min, but I fear it being viral so I show few ppl lol. If anyone knows of a way to prevent video copying I would post it for a brief time.
 
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guru1000

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Translation: "My only legitimate counterpoint was hypergamy exists sometimes, and thus it exists, but because I cannot reconcile:
If a theory does not hold under certain circumstances --not delineated as exceptions--then the theory is invalid.

Accordingly, the very act of trading down is not a delineated exception to, and thus contradicts, Hypergamy
"I'll just state you're wrong and draw comparisons with 'finding her needs' to 'finding a unicorn.'"


Translation to Edit:
"Women drop their man for me at the drop of a hat because I'm good-looking, hence hypergamy exists."

Even if I concede that "good looking" means "status" (which is not the case in many instances), as already stated, Hypergamy Theory is subsumed within Needs Theory. Hence why not all women who find you attractive will drop their man at the drop of a hat. The ones who "trade up," do not have their needs met by their present bf. Heed: A "need" could encompass securing a man of a certain SMV, which they don't currently have.

As stated the only exception to the Needs Theory is when one or more needs cannot be met by one man alone.
 

guru1000

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If you say so bud.
I want to be wrong here, but I have yet to hear a legitimate counter from anyone. It could be a legitimate counter does not exist.

I'm not stating that hypergamy does not exist. I am stating that hypergamy does not exist in certain conditions which belie hypergamy (e.g. trading down).

Of course I'll catch much Opposition here, as hypergamy is a Manosphere indoctrinated concept and many have utilized this notion to explain their past mishaps or with hopes in what to correct moving forward. Naturally, if someone brings an opposing or superseding theory, a backlash will incite. We are speaking of a heavily invested, now indoctrinated, Manosphere belief.

My motive here is simple:
Many guys strive to be SMV Kings, meaning a 8/9/10 in looks, status, and money. I have been the main advocator of this over a decade. Only when I achieved the top echelon under anyone's standards in looks, money, and status, did I realize that the SMV9/10 still falls short to the 6/7 or 7/8 guy who meets her needs that I failed to meet. Or that your 9/10 across the board holds no/little relevance to strength and longevity of a relation.

Very few here can attest as very few here have reached/will reach this top SMV echelon to recognize this distinction.
 

Roober

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The severe lack of introspection on this site is troubling. I mean, why waste your time here pushing a false agenda?

If you are someone who honestly believes this is a site to learn "how to pickup women", it truly demonstrates your elementary understanding of the basis of SS. I would recommend you go back, read again, and try to interpret it correctly this time. I have said this before, it is like trying to explain calculus to a 5-year old. Eventually, this 5-year old will gain the intelligence to understand it. As of right now, the mental capacity is not there...

Ill give a hint: Make yourself better, you will attract better women. Keep yourself in that heightened state and hypergamy is dead.
 

Roober

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funny that.

because the prevalent accepted theory in the manosphere is that of hypergamy being a constant. its almost as if.......(like everything else) men can see it in action with their own eyes.....

i wont hold my breath for the paradigm shift tho
If a man fails at attracting women with integrity, then subsequently can't treat a woman with integrity properly, hypergamy will always be part of their reality. It's like a white man trying to tell a black man there is no racism, he will never be able to understand what he has not experienced firsthand.

It is hard to recognize that oneself is part of the problem as it is something I struggle with as well, and I see it in most of my friends and their relations. They honestly believe they are great men, there is nothing that will change that. It is ALWAYS easier to blame someone else for life's lessons.

People don't really learn from their past, they just protect their fragile ego by avoiding anything that stirs up similar emotions in completely different situations. Ego is a b1thx and should be your first goal to minimize
 

Roober

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there is absolutely nothing wrong with me or my love life. im quite proud of myself actually. i never imagined my experiences with women would be this good when i was younger.

i dont blame women for a damn thing.

i just know that if im not meeting all her needs she will seek it somewhere else. that doesnt mean theres some flaw in me or how i see women. i just understand that its a natural part of a womans core being.

heres my secret tho......i dont actually give a fvck what they want or need. if they arent making ME happy i'll find another one. thats not to say im some uncaring *******. i respect women and i love them, but i love them for what they are not how i think they should be.

its that simple
Thank you for further proving my point. My response had nothing to do with you, yet you managed to write an entire response about yourself. Do you recognize that? Do you know what that is? That is your fragile ego! Core beliefs and values are severely inhibited by the ego, and you see it all over the board. Transcend the ego, and your success now will look like child's play.

Women look to upgrade, but so do men. If a woman is not meeting your basic needs, you would look for a better option as well. Yet, the standard is that "its a natural part of a woman's core being." I would argue that it is part of the human condition, not just women. If you have filtered for a good woman (a foundation of SS and the book of pook), and know how to handle that good woman, hypergamy will be practically nonexistent.

Forgive me for saying this, but your "secret" gave me a good laugh... =)
 

guru1000

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Roober said:
I would argue that it is part of the human condition, not just women)
Yes, it’s the human condition with a will to receive what’s best for him/her.

This thread shows what’s best for people individually, although having many similarities, is entirely subjective.

Hence, to think, “I’m the best she can get in the sexual market place” does not mean you’re the best in the marketplace for her, as her needs may differ from that of the marketplace or she may have superseding needs that are of greater relevance.

The idea that we can subscribe all women into the same box without the understanding that their individual stories differ, lends to unilateral dealings with women. This is not an effective sexual strategy dependent on what you seek. For a guy like Midnight who seeks only to plate and toss, this thread holds little relevance. But for other guys in LTRs, the ideas discussed herewith empower men to deal in a stronger frame and serve “the” frame with encompassing knowledge rather than ignorance.
 
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