Fist Fight in Walmart Parking Lot - Who is legally at fault here?

[Reyaj]

Maybe some of you have seen this video on YouTube:

Forward to 3:22 to see where it starts.

I am trying to see what legal consequences would come from this fight that took place in a parking lot at Walmart. Basically one guy warns the other not to touch his motorcycle, once he does he pushes him. The guy then touches it again and then he punches him.

Are you allowed to hit someone for touching your stuff? The other guy was coming towards him agressively so maybe that can give justification for throwing the first punch?

Aside from my questions I laugh like crazy watching this hahaha

 

[TheVirtualMind]

He (should) of just let it go. Car flew past him then went past another car? Ok, call the cops and report the tag (if he could see it at the stop sign.) Then call again when he saw him at Walmart. Though it does look like he intentionally followed him to argue with him (hence circling the lot) which isn't a good look.

Now, LEGALLY...Well, when the guy touched him, it's assault. The "punch and back up" helped him, since he wasn't just pummeling the guy on the ground. In my state... "Misdemeanor not committed in my presence." If neither party wants to press charges, I'd just get their info, make sure neither has warrants, and "in the future, don't touch someones bike" to the guy in the car, and "in the future, just report his tag and don't follow, because imagine if this guy came out with a gun, as crazy as he seemed." If they DID want to press charges, exchange info, explain the process to them, and write my "he said, he said" report with the info I have and let the court throw it out (usually.)

But, since I like traffic stuff, if the motorcyclist let me view the GoPro footage and gave me a copy, I'd charge the guy in the car with some traffic things and submit the footage as evidence.

 

[doctor1996]

I saw this video. A year ago.

 

[Reyaj]

He (should) of just let it go. Car flew past him then went past another car? Ok, call the cops and report the tag (if he could see it at the stop sign.) Then call again when he saw him at Walmart. Though it does look like he intentionally followed him to argue with him (hence circling the lot) which isn't a good look.

Now, LEGALLY...Well, when the guy touched him, it's assault. The "punch and back up" helped him, since he wasn't just pummeling the guy on the ground. In my state... "Misdemeanor not committed in my presence." If neither party wants to press charges, I'd just get their info, make sure neither has warrants, and "in the future, don't touch someones bike" to the guy in the car, and "in the future, just report his tag and don't follow, because imagine if this guy came out with a gun, as crazy as he seemed." If they DID want to press charges, exchange info, explain the process to them, and write my "he said, he said" report with the info I have and let the court throw it out (usually.)

But, since I like traffic stuff, if the motorcyclist let me view the GoPro footage and gave me a copy, I'd charge the guy in the car with some traffic things and submit the footage as evidence.

I agree he should have let it go and not follow him. But honestly does calling the cops and reporting his shvt driving do anything? Its just your word against his, how could it be proven?

As far as the physical stuff, so when the motorcycle guy pushed him that's assault right there?

So basically if 2 people get into a fight you just log their account (and witnesses if there are any) of what took place, and then they get a court date where a judge decides whether an assault took place?

 

[TheVirtualMind]

I agree he should have let it go and not follow him. But honestly does calling the cops and reporting his shvt driving do anything? Its just your word against his, how could it be proven?

As far as the physical stuff, so when the motorcycle guy pushed him that's assault right there?

So basically if 2 people get into a fight you just log their account (and witnesses if there are any) of what took place, and then they get a court date where a judge decides whether an assault took place?

1. Calling and reporting it does something. Here, if you call and report it, it gets dispatched out and we look for the car as we are out. Now, the whole "your word against his," well...He (the guy on the bike) had the GoPro. He can give out the info and say "call me back if you need to, I have video." There is your proof.

2. Yes, but he can argue that the guy was threatening him and making him uncomfortable (assault by threat). But that varies per state, so I don't want to say "if someone threatens you with words, you can punch them in the teeth." But if that is valid in the state that happened at, dude in the car needed some dental work anyway...The physical act of assault was him putting his hands on the dude. But, see #3...

3. Yes, pretty much. If the fight isn't infront of me (not in my presence), then it's a "get their info, their sides of the story, any witness stuff, and let them know how to file charges against each other if they both want to go that way." 9 times out of 10 though, neither side wants to do that as they really don't care. Guy in the car was being a d*ck and had it coming, but both were wrong. However, the guy in the car had his ego destroyed more than anything. Got punched out by a guy wearing a Cookie Monster shirt.

 

[Sho-No-Luv]

People have got to start assessing situations better.

Pillsbury dough mexican guy was out of his league here and should have just walked away. I try not to enter into verbal altercations as I carry weapons and i'm an experienced fighter. I don't want to injure or kill someone or get killed myself. To my mind fighting is only for life threatening situations.

Always count the cost!

Key things here: height disadvantage, being overweight and out of shape, invading peoples personal space, touching their personal property and, agitating aggressive speech. Plus when someone mentions that they are ex millitary, they box, train in mma, or serious martial arts its best to walk away. Or if ya feeling lucky look at their knuckles sometimes that's a clue too. If its all knotted and scarred up like my brother..

Well its probably best to leave that guy alone!! Lol

 

[backseatjuan]

@14:38
'if you were in my country mother f'r you wouldn't even be breathing'
That's bull sh1t. In his country for his words he'd get fvcked in the ass.

There is no legal consequence for this.


When I first saw at the start that motorbike is following that dumb ass I knew the scheme. It's pretty common in Russia. One instigates, the other bites on it. I would not follow him, or report him, or anything. Dumb ass will always find another dumb ass, I don't want to be a dumb ass in a situation like this. But the biker said it, he is on pension, he is retired, he has nothing else to do. He is enjoying this kind of sh1t. But he ain't no bad ass. If he was, he'd do something like this when that dude got out.

Good or bad, we have already in place I think, or maybe not yet, a law which allows citizens to submit videos of traffic violators. Do you want that kind of law in USA? I hope you said no. Because imagine the bull sh1t over it. Everyone commits a traffic violation daily, people just don't notice it.


Personally I'd call cops if I see a biker or a car follow me - provided I was in USA. In Russia, if it's a biker acting bad ass like in the video above, I'd driver over him and leave the scene. A car, perhaps drive to a secluded place, deal with him quietly.

 

[TheVirtualMind]

People have got to start assessing situations better.

Pillsbury dough mexican guy was out of his league here and should have just walked away. I try not to enter into verbal altercations as I carry weapons and i'm an experienced fighter. I don't want to injure or kill someone or get killed myself. To my mind fighting is only for life threatening situations.

Always count the cost!

Key things here: height disadvantage, being overweight and out of shape, invading peoples personal space, touching their personal property and, agitating aggressive speech. Plus when someone mentions that they are ex millitary, they box, train in mma, or serious martial arts its best to walk away. Or if ya feeling lucky look at their knuckles sometimes that's a clue too. If its all knotted and scarred up like my brother..

Well its probably best to leave that guy alone!! Lol

Guy with the camera should of assessed the situation better too.

Follows (stalks) guy to Walmart and insults the lady in the guys car. Guy is obviously unhinged (the one in the car that is) and what if he pulled out a gun? The guy on the bike was off it and his bike is facing a concrete barrier (parking space block) and then something that appears to be a walkway. He had no where to go. Couldn't reach for it, since his bike was in the way. Could run and hope the guy misses with his shots. If he (biker) is carrying, defend himself with his rounds and see how it plays out. Though he would most likely be charged, since he upped things a bit by following the guy to Walmart.

Pride and ego aside, too many crazy people out here nowaday. Let the small crap go. Remember, just because you think you are better than others at stuff, there is always the time you run into the wrong person, who can either fight better, get to their weapon quicker, or who completely catches you off guard.

 

[TheVirtualMind]

You're a cop?

Yes.

 

[Bible_Belt]

to me, what the moped guy did is exactly what i call looking for trouble. i immediately wasnt on his side when this video started but the prick in the car deserved what he got

dont go looking for trouble and stuff like this wont happen

You can tell in any confrontation, when the jawing phase lasts more than a few seconds, neither guy knows how to fight.

In Florida, the driver of the car could have blown him away without even opening the door of the car and that would have been legal self-defense. They call it the "shoot first" law. In California, the same action would have been murder, and probably a weapons charge.

A friend from law school is Chinese, and also a gun nut with a concealed carry permit. He jokes about being a bad Asian driver and making people mad. The last time it happened, the other car started following him. So he drove to the front entrance of the police station and parked there. The other car noticed where they were, and drove off. I know the kid well, he would have easily shot and killed the guy if it came to it. But he has a law degree, and that makes him start planning out his court defense while the event is still unfolding. If you are going to kill anyone, unless you're at home fighting a home invader, trying to run away first is the way to go. He even went to the police station as icing on the cake. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client fled all the way to the police station. But when they couldn't protect him, he had no choice but to defend himself." That's what he was thinking, because he's that smart, even under pressure. He could have blown that guy's brains out all over the front steps of the police station and probably gotten away with it. The guy drove away thinking my friend was a coward, but he had no idea that coward was methodically preparing to kill him.

Other issues - may one use physical force to defend property? The answer is no...pretty much, or at least it is not a good idea. People in Texas think they can blow away trespassers, because there is an archaic law still on the books that says so. But you will never find an attorney who says doing so is a good idea. The force used to protect property must by extremely minimal, as in you can touch someone on the arm lightly as they walk out of your store with unpaid merchandise, just to remind them to pay. That's about the level of force you get to use, and no more.

Battery is unwanted touching. Assault is basically an attempted battery. You don't have to wait until someone swings at you before you punch back. You have a right to use force in self-defense, if a reasonable person would have felt an assault was imminent. When the biker follows the guy (attempted retreat), then comes up to him at the car, at that precise moment the car guy could have decked him. The instant that the threat is gone, then you lose the self-defense right. You don't get to touch him again, unless he keeps coming at you.

Also, this discussion has so far revolved around criminal law. Civil law is another good reason to not get into fights, especially if you have any money to lose. Even if the cops don't arrest you, the other guy can still sue you and win money.

 

[Bible_Belt]

most southern laws are retarded when it comes to stuff like this. that your friend was ready to kill someone off a road rage incident is stupid and hes a pos human being.

Anyone carrying concealed is ready to kill you any time, for any number of reasons that amount to self-defense. That's the point of carrying. I would say any martial artist or fighter would feel the same way, but do it without a gun. And these are good reasons to not fvck with random people.

 

[Tenacity]

Maybe some of you have seen this video on YouTube:

Forward to 3:22 to see where it starts.

I am trying to see what legal consequences would come from this fight that took place in a parking lot at Walmart. Basically one guy warns the other not to touch his motorcycle, once he does he pushes him. The guy then touches it again and then he punches him.

Are you allowed to hit someone for touching your stuff? The other guy was coming towards him agressively so maybe that can give justification for throwing the first punch?

Aside from my questions I laugh like crazy watching this hahaha

What this video showed me is that you have TWO IDIOTS who should be acting like grown a.ss men, but were instead acting like spoiled school girls.

- The dude on the bike literally chased and followed the dude in the car for a number of minutes, all while recording it and putting it online. And for what? Because he got "cut off" on the road? Are you fvcking serious? ANY type of "self-defense" claim is thrown out of the window as how can you claim self-defense while you are clearly the aggressor?

- The dude in the car must of been drunk, high, or some other type of "retarded".

- Both of them stand there talking back and forth for 10 fvcking minutes. Again, these are grown a.ss men.

This is how people end up seriously injured. Dude on the bike clearly wanted to "fight" somebody that day, that's why he chased the dude down in the car. I was just hoping (despite how retarded he obviously was) that the dude in the car came back with a gun and blew the fool on the bike away. That will teach his dumb a.ss for following people, stalking people, and trying to act like a bad-a.ss in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

Fighting is STUPID people. Fight only when you are in a life threatening situation. Don't fight for any other situation because you never, ever, know what the other person is capable of. Even if you are able to beat them in a fist fight, that doesn't mean they won't pull out a gun or have a group of people find you and beat the shyt out of you.

 

[Serenity]

That video was stupidity from start to end. I fear that "discussion" killed some of my brain cells. The guy in the car is clearly an idiot, but the biker is also an idiot because he is too dumb to realize it's impossible to have intelligent arguments with idiots.

It's impossible to win an argument if the other person is an idiot. Stupid people are immune to intelligence, it doesn't work on them.

 

[Reyaj]

1. Calling and reporting it does something. Here, if you call and report it, it gets dispatched out and we look for the car as we are out. Now, the whole "your word against his," well...He (the guy on the bike) had the GoPro. He can give out the info and say "call me back if you need to, I have video." There is your proof.

2. Yes, but he can argue that the guy was threatening him and making him uncomfortable (assault by threat). But that varies per state, so I don't want to say "if someone threatens you with words, you can punch them in the teeth." But if that is valid in the state that happened at, dude in the car needed some dental work anyway...The physical act of assault was him putting his hands on the dude. But, see #3...

3. Yes, pretty much. If the fight isn't infront of me (not in my presence), then it's a "get their info, their sides of the story, any witness stuff, and let them know how to file charges against each other if they both want to go that way." 9 times out of 10 though, neither side wants to do that as they really don't care. Guy in the car was being a d*ck and had it coming, but both were wrong. However, the guy in the car had his ego destroyed more than anything. Got punched out by a guy wearing a Cookie Monster shirt.

thanks for the insight VM. I have always had the mentality to avoid a physical confrontation at all cost and its mostly because of the legal ramifications... If I feel someone is getting aggressive towards me and I punch them, is that assault? Do you really have to be touched first in order for it to be self defense? I think you said it differs by state.. I just want to have the right mentality on when to fight.. what's your advice?

You can tell in any confrontation, when the jawing phase lasts more than a few seconds, neither guy knows how to fight.

The tall guy on bike appeared to have some boxing fundamentals as he threw a jab cross... Thats the type of basics I want to focus on per the other thread in the Health and Fitness on fighting funamdentals we are discussing. The mexican guy should have bobbed and weaved his way in if he wanted to have a chance.

As far as the gun defense.. that's kind of what happend in the George Zimmerman case right? He felt threatned and he was able to legally shoot Travon Martin?

Fighting is STUPID people. Fight only when you are in a life threatening situation. Don't fight for any other situation because you never, ever, know what the other person is capable of. Even if you are able to beat them in a fist fight, that doesn't mean they won't pull out a gun or have a group of people find you and beat the shyt out of you.

Probably good advice.. but I do feel there is this innate test of manhood that can occur in certain situations. I don't think you've been in a committed relationship and have some shvtty views on women so I don't think you'll be able to relate with the example I am going to give (analogous to the stick shift thread) but assume someone disrespected your girl right in front of you...(try to pretend you care and value her)

 

[TheVirtualMind]

thanks for the insight VM. I have always had the mentality to avoid a physical confrontation at all cost and its mostly because of the legal ramifications... If I feel someone is getting aggressive towards me and I punch them, is that assault? Do you really have to be touched first in order for it to be self defense? I think you said it differs by state.. I just want to have the right mentality on when to fight.. what's your advice?



The tall guy on bike appeared to have some boxing fundamentals as he threw a jab cross... Thats the type of basics I want to focus on per the other thread in the Health and Fitness on fighting funamdentals we are discussing. The mexican guy should have bobbed and weaved his way in if he wanted to have a chance.

As far as the gun defense.. that's kind of what happend in the George Zimmerman case right? He felt threatned and he was able to legally shoot Travon Martin?



Probably good advice.. but I do feel there is this innate test of manhood that can occur in certain situations. I don't think you've been in a committed relationship and have some shvtty views on women so I don't think you'll be able to relate with the example I am going to give (analogous to the stick shift thread) but assume someone disrespected your girl right in front of you...(try to pretend you care and value her)

No problem. While I can't exactly tell you what to do because I don't know specific California laws, I can say that you have the right mentality. Walking away (when possible) far outweighs the fight, both legally and safety wise.

However...If you feel threatened and can articulate why, then by all means, deck the sob. But be prepared for any legal issues that may come up. ALWAYS try to escape first though, if it is possible. If not...Well, you know what to do.

While I would rather not go into the George Zimmerman case...That was a messy situation where he ignored advice and got saved by technical law. He could of just left things alone (and should have.)

 

[Bible_Belt]

Additionally Zimmerman did not ignore advice, he was returning to his car as suggested and was confronted on his way back.

fake news. Zimmerman chased him down first. That's why he had to "return to" his car. The police operator told him not to get out in the first place. Do you think cops tell civilians to go chase suspicious characters when they see them?

 

[Bible_Belt]

Some dispatchers are sworn officers, especially in small towns, but the new trend is to hire civilians because it is cheaper. Regardless, they speak on behalf of the police when they say things like:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok

Only in backwards-ass Florida, where the self defense law has been changed to appease the Angry Old Man demographic, are you going to be able to grab a gun, chase down an unarmed teenage kid, and then claim self-defense as an excuse to shoot him when he beat your ass. In any other state, or any civilized country, you go to jail for doing that.

 

[backseatjuan]

I for one dislike blacks. They have this weird attitude towards the law and towards white people. It's as if you have to kneel before them, otherwise they will do something. I consider them racist in some cases, and law disobidient in all others. As far as Zimmerman goes, he was wrong, clown was walking in a hoodie, he had that retarded black attitude towards whites, he might have attacked him, but why follow him and then shoot him, why escalate? Man, sometimes I am so greatful that we don't have blacks in Russia, en mass. It gets lost quick, the fact that there isn't any, but then I remember Miami, craaaaap! Those people really do have mental issues.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Zimmerman was justified in his self defense.

Only in Florida, and only because of their fvcked-up laws.

He has become quite the poster child for the modern hate movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zimmerman

He's also a good pick for a celebrity death pool candidate. There's no way that guy is going to die of natural causes. He's been shot in the face once already, beaten up, and been in a string of domestic violence incidents. He just loves waving that gun of his around. He has had amazing luck so far, but that luck can't last forever.