She leaves the message on "seen"

[btownbuck2012]

it depends on whether they were ever high interest at any point in your interaction.

Yes, "smooth sailing" from the outset is possible and ideal, and that will give you the best reward in the medium run(but also often a red flag when it seems too good to be true). The "normal" girl at or above your value will NOT be like this. So if you want to play in that arena then you have to play by those rules. Please try hard to not invest in any one of them in the meantime.

This is great advice. I have to remind myself of this sometimes, too.

 

[guru1000]

I get the dynamics and I am OK with the dynamics, but in most cases, women playing these kind of games never ended up materializing in anything, that's why I was implying that when a woman decides to play it like that, I mostly decide not to play at all.

Sometimes. I had a girl a few months back who went ghost when I asked for the date. I deleted her number. Two week later, she texted me a pic of her with an arbitrary message. I ignored. The following week, she texted again. I ignored. Two weeks later, she texted again (yes, she was persistent). I responded with scheduling the date. It turned into a first-date lay.

Lizardking, you're a young guy, and judging from this and the other thread where you responded to me, I sense that you have incorporated all the Manosphere "rules," and apply them universally. So I'll cut you some slack here.

I have debunked the following Manosphere "rules of engagement." The Manosphere states:

If a girl doesn't kiss you on the first date, she is not into you. My last LTR rejected my kiss attempt five times on the first date.

If a girl doesn't fvck you within the first three dates, she's not sexually into you. My last two LTRs took 5 and 10 dates respectively.

If a girl doesn't respond to your text, she has low IL. See above.

If a girl doesn't exhibit high IL, she has low IL. Most professional models I have dated, didn't show any IL, and, in fact, had very high IL.

If a girl doesn't call you after the first date, she has low IL. A girl who doesn't call you may think you are too good for her, and thus may think you are not into her. Or she may be of a traditional background where only men initiate.

Never tell a beautiful girl she is beautiful. Beautiful women are the most insecure, and by withholding a genuine compliment, you are feeding her in-validation, and thus disqualifying yourself.

The list goes on and on.

Manosphere "rules" are simply guidelines for newbies. When you become more seasoned in your "game" and with enough women, you will find that you can break all the rules, as most no longer apply. The "game" then wraps around your frame and you can do anything you want ... naturally, and be extremely effective.

 

[derby1]

Agreed, especially women 8+. They use absences, often due to other men, to "ping" their own interest in you.

3+ nowadays lol

 

[lizardking82]

First of all, it is a nice thing we can get a discussion going here, it is learning I am here for and I am eager to listen to experiences and points of view from some of the older and more experienced guys here.

@LARaiders85 you are one of the posters I like the most here, genuinely. I totally understand what you're saying. Lately, my own SMV has been going up and that is why I have found it easier to get lays and some plates coming my way without even working a lot to get them. But you are right, there a lot of other women whose SMV seems or is higher than mine that will play it out differently and there have been cases where I have proceeded just as an experiment, to see what happens. However, maybe you agree with me on this one that it is a bit frustrating at times that proceeding is merely not talking at all to them when they decide to give you the silent treatment for no reason whatsoever LOL

@TheMonkeyKing you are absolutely right in this one. I have seen a lot of my friends go balistic when their plate or girlfriend gave them the silent treatment and sometimes, it happens to confuse me just a bit when they pull that off, but I go into DGAF mood quite soon now and literally do not wonder anymore what it might be and just let them initiate themselves.

@guru1000 I take some of the guidelines of the manosphere into account, but I don't obey to them as rules LOL I go with the flow in a lot of cases, but I am curious, are you saying one should go against the "rules" of the manosphere? I think it's more situational.

Here, let me give you guys an example. I have this girl who I know through social since about a year. Started out quietly, she loves my work, I am a photographer and I posted it in social media and she was always a fan until a couple of weeks ago when she writes to me tells me that the manager of the hotel she works for is interested in hiring a photographer for a personal event and tells me she has suggested me there. I was a bit surprised, but I liked the fact she had thought of me although there are more photographers in that zone that she surely knows. I went there, she came out of the hotel hall to greet me and then greeted me when I left as well. I have been low-profile flirting with her very casually and she has this thing that is sometimes quite warm and seems very submissive, but then goes into this mood where she answers short and cold texts LOL

Now, my instinct tells me that she has a likeness towards me, but I am in a bit of a dilemma how to play it. We have planned a shooting for December, she is paying for it. Let's see how that goes, I think I shouldn't flirt with it much until after the work.

 

[TheGambino]

Kill that desperation!

 

[lizardking82]

@TheGambino there is no desperation. Just having a discussion.

 

[derby1]

this was a discussion i was having the other day women are now becoming expert DJ's naturally simply because they have endless men after them without leaving the sofa....and in the UK the government is there Husband ie weekly money for having a kid.....

even my old neighbour bless her the fat mess shes at least spinning 8 plates of men i mean wtf shes a 2 pissed at most, she leaves blokes messages on "read" ..........this is the joke shes a total jabba hut

 

[guru1000]

The "normal" girl at or above your value will NOT be like this. So if you want to play in that arena then you have to play by those rules.

When the shoe is on the other foot, it resonates clearly. One girl I'm seeing, some days I have high IL in her; after meets, my IL wanes. Then she distances herself, and my high IL ignites again. But the polarity of IL is constant. If she were to push while my IL waned, my IL in her would likely collapse altogether. It's all an unconscious process; not deliberate on my end.

Scarcity or challenge creates value. What's easily accessible or easy creates disregard. This is one fundamental I never abandoned.

 

[lizardking82]

She wants you around on her terms only. Low interest, other men around(esp when you text her and get a snappy response).

Yeah, well that ain't happening them. But different guys here would maybe give different perspectives on a small, little story like this.

 

[Staticus]

A lot of great information in this thread. It goes to show that there are different ways to play your game. I didn't mean to offend you lizard, by stating that I use my phone for dates, times and locations. That's how I keep my fish on the hook. Not everyone is the same. I play small game on my phone, if I have her number that means I had a face to face experience with her. I find it hard to make time for text games and don't play into them with this day and age female. It's always worked for me. That's the beauty of the game.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

Now, my instinct tells me that she has a likeness towards me, but I am in a bit of a dilemma how to play it. We have planned a shooting for December, she is paying for it. Let's see how that goes, I think I shouldn't flirt with it much until after the work.

I would go for the work and text her about going out just the two of you after that's done. You could even tell her face to face, after you finish the work; you're more likely to get a straight answer that way as well, or at least be better able to gauge her reaction in person.

The last thing I can say about texting and e-communication (as has been said many times before) is really to keep it to an absolute minimum. I barely go more than 5-10 messages between dates (and often not even that much), never really engage in e-conversation, and rarely directly answer questions when asked. The phone/email/messenger is for setting dates.

Example conversation from date at weekend. This girl had previously text me about any new jobs I had coming up 'that she should know about'. I completely ignored the question on the text.

During the date....
TMK: 'I have been offered two jobs and have another interview next week. So I'm waiting to make a decision.'
GIRL: 'OMG. Why did I not know about this??'
TMK: 'Well, I'm telling you now aren't I...? '

The result of this is threefold. I have given us something to talk about when face to face; I have maintained mystery and enabled her wonderment about me when absent; I have forced her to qualify her interest in my personal situation.

Electronic communication should only ever facilitate face to face communication. Face to face communication is the only communication that truly facilitates seduction.

The only time I increase electronic communication briefly is if I know that a face to face is not on the cards for a week or two. Even then it's only a brief check in once or twice a week.

 

[Staticus]

I would go for the work and text her about going out just the two of you after that's done. You could even tell her face to face, after you finish the work; you're more likely to get a straight answer that way as well, or at least be better able to gauge her reaction in person.

The last thing I can say about texting and e-communication (as has been said many times before) is really to keep it to an absolute minimum. I barely go more than 5-10 messages between dates (and often not even that much), never really engage in e-conversation, and rarely directly answer questions when asked. The phone/email/messenger is for setting dates.

Example conversation from date at weekend. This girl had previously text me about any new jobs I had coming up 'that she should know about'. I completely ignored the question on the text.

During the date....
TMK: 'I have been offered two jobs and have another interview next week. So I'm waiting to make a decision.'
GIRL: 'OMG. Why did I not know about this??'
TMK: 'Well, I'm telling you now aren't I...? '

The result of this is threefold. I have given us something to talk about when face to face; I have maintained mystery and enabled her wonderment about me when absent; I have forced her to qualify her interest in my personal situation.

Electronic communication should only ever facilitate face to face communication. Face to face communication is the only communication that truly facilitates seduction.

The only time I increase electronic communication briefly is if I know that a face to face is not on the cards for a week or two. Even then it's only a brief check in once or twice a week.

This right here.

 

[lizardking82]

I just don't think this texting this is so black and white. I believe it is OK to keep texting short when you've already met and banged yet, but before banging, you have to talk to the girl and especially so if she is young. There is almost no chance you can get her going crazy about you by just staying and using the phone to set dates.

I understand what @TheMonkeyKing is saying and that is something I use as well in quite some cases, instilling interest and curiosity, but if you do that all the time, you come off as a player and that's a turn off for most women. This is something you can integrate and I think if you are in control of the situation and leading it where you want to, texting and many other things will do no harm and are just part of the equation.

 

[Staticus]

@lizardking82 this is true, girls these days are very tech savvy, making texting a heavy option. I just approach it differently and would rather keep it to a bare min. I guess my perspective is if I have her number, we have already met and spoken for a night, maybe ONS depending on the flow. You want more let's meet up, but keep them interested with small game through the phone. Women like to be chased but also like to do some chasing. I keep my dates fun and exciting,sex after if the case, then I hear from her later that week or next day. It may be a player outlook, but if you're not looking for LTR then why worry. the woman you're talking is probably into you anyway so don't worry about my input. Good conversation though. I just hate texting

 

[lizardking82]

Not worried at all, just wanted to have a discussion and we had one, got some nice perspectives out of it.

 

[lizardking82]

One more thing I am curious about: I strongly agree that it is useless giving them attention, but do you guys use social media sometimes and go around liking pics or none of that ****?

 

[Staticus]

i cant tell you how many times ive exchanged only a few lines with girls that just died out only to run into them elsewhere and made an easy kill.

@MidnightCity This is the best scenario yet. It's fuel to a fire. Works almost everytime. But in some of your other statements, are you stating put more time into texting and social media, or be the guy who doesn't and be different? I would think you'd become more desireable to a woman because of that difference than your above statement, "they have guys texting them trying to weasel their way into their panties all the time". Like a breath of fresh air.

 

[Staticus]

One more thing I am curious about: I strongly agree that it is useless giving them attention, but do you guys use social media sometimes and go around liking pics or none of that ****?

I always like to have them as friends and have that option. But I don't like every thing they post just pick strategically. You can usually tell which post a woman puts up that she is connected to, one that is more meaningful to her. Use that social media friendship to keep her connected with your life, to see your success and adventures.

 

[Staticus]

But this could be dangerous if you've gotten more than one woman, which most of us do. Women like to post who they are with or check in with this person or that person. That could bite you in the A** real quick. My younger brother ate that mistake. I just keep it casual, that's what privacy settings are for he he.

 

[Staticus]

i simply meant theres no harm in trying because sometimes you never know. a girl could have been hoping for a long time you hit her up or you could be/have something she specifically likes in a guy and feels an elevated attraction for you, but women arent gonna initiate. thats your job and then thats when the game starts

the difference is you shouldnt be a text buddy. thats what her girlfriends and orbiters are for. if nothing comes from your initial online approach, you shouldnt dig your grave deeper and keep trying to seduce via text if its not leading anywhere. i suppose this is why im not big on picking up women on social media. although i have plenty of success, i find it annoying in that your making your own life harder for no reason. these chicks are constantly bombarded with messages. i dont have time to entertain women until they make up their minds while they weigh options nor the inclination to take high quality and impressive pictures. put these chicks in the same room as me tho and they dont stand a chance.

And this is what I was getting at in my previous comments. Im an in person guy. I really don't see how anyone can really show emotion or meaning through texting or social media. I call that small game. Some people got that gift though, if it works for them go for it. I joke with a buddy of mine who is all about social media and texting, one day he's going to meet the woman in person and she's going to think you're someone else, not who she was texting haha. But You hit the nail on the head my friend.