BeExcellent: "Nothing short of marriage is exclusive to be perfectly honest"

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

I believe that what is happening now is what people call “gaslighting”.

 

[highSpeed]

Value and the why is very individual Richard.

I can't say WHY somebody besides me does what they do. I can't say what another person values. There are men who see value in marriage just as there are women who see value in it. Most of those men, to be fair, are not here. They don't need to be.

Some men see value in being married and having a family and creating deep intimacy with a life partner. Some don't. But barking about where's the value when you don't have the same value set is an exercise in silliness. Honestly. That's like ridiculing someone for having different political beliefs than yours. The other guy is entitled to his beliefs and will operate his life based on his beliefs, just as we all do. That's all that is going on here. Different people conducting their own lives based on their individual beliefs.

why are all of your comments based on some esoteric view of life from a woman's perspective that most other women simply don't have? you have this pie in the sky type of view, some rambling stream of consciousness that you think will make the men on this believe you have some level of wisdom. You don't. is your view of the universe why 2/3 to 3/4s of women initiate divorce? most "modern" women have been empowered by the state to behave badly, plain and simple. there are simply not enough "great" women, as you put it, to go around. successful guys were mentored by other successful guys to protect themselves, to hold out for a woman who is good but then also protect yourself and your resources before you enter into any sort of long term commitment. most men are not tutored in this way and our culture is suffering for it. in some idiotic attempt to "fix" marriage and even the balance of power with no fault divorces, they have destroyed the institution and incentivized bad behavior on the part of women. deal with it. this is going to push most good men away from marriage because they are afraid of being divorce raped. and that is the downfall of western society, women and our now feminized culture.

 

[guru1000]

Men, what's with all the implicit bashing? Is this the example of character (despite your discordance) we want to exact on the younger, impressionable minds?

If any of you have particular disagreements with words stated, address those words directly, rather than inappropriate sleights.

 

[Macaframalama]

I don't understand why everyone fails to see it and thought it was pretty common knowledge among men. I could have married a good woman a half dozen times over, but for the same reason I can't keep a woman for over a few years. She figures out she can't change me and they get tired of me waiting/refusing to escalate the relationship. Is it a difference in geographical location or something?

 

[Tenacity]

Oh for fvck's sake guys...

@deesade you are now making stuff up and assigning it to some "frame issue" that I am somehow trying to get men to submit too? Are you mad? You are assigning all sorts of things to me that I have never said (I don't care how fast you sleep with women - I am not like the women in your family - I make no judgement whether they are quality girls or not because you know them personally whereas I do not...) You are projecting a whole bunch of nonsense on me once again. Nothing personal but that is what is going on here. And for the record nobody taught me the female social dynamics until college. So no, I didn't grow up with all that. My biggest influence growing up was my father, my grandmother and my grandfather. My mother was never a social person so I myself had LOTS to learn about women but I've always understood men exceptionally well due to the way I was raised. I'm pleased to say that I now have many friends of both genders...and @MidnightCity I don't invite and encourage beta orbiters...but hot women always have admirers just as high value men have female attention constantly.

I could care less who gets married here and who doesn't. I could care less who you date and how fast you sleep together. I do think that "quality women", which much of the board defines as relatively chaste if not virgin, from good family, etc., etc., is something much of the board values and I do think women with stronger moral fiber behave differently than women with less moral fiber. None of that is my sole opinion. Desdinova has a whole theory based on those "quality" arguments, the High Score Theory. I simply made a comment about how many women think and WHY. You're not going to marry and that's fine. And I could care less. Do what makes you happy. That is what I say to you every time you start up this frame pushing delusion. You understand the game well enough that you know better but you think you've got to be the spin factory. Do you really think everyone else here is that dum and I'm that smart? You give me far too much credit. My views are actually pretty consistent, as is my posting style and the things I relate. It's all on here if people care to browse around and read. My posts stand just fine on their own.

If you don't like my content ignore me. Easy. All good.

How is it that a 48 year old chick has so much power that you guys feel compelled to pick what I say in this thread for example apart? Think about that. THAT is what is the REAL head scratcher here. As though all the other men running around this site have mush for brains, can't think for themselves, and might fall under my influence. Oh Dear.

I'm truly flattered @ImTheDoubleGreatest! and @MidnightCity that I'm so important...and it's always a good sparring match from time to time deesade, but I think the men here are plenty smart enough to figure things out all by themselves. They can read and they aren't stupid. @Augustus_McCrae asked a simple question and asked for a rationale. I gave the rationale which is a commonly held notion amongst women and people flipped out.

There are times when I give some of the toughest buckle your seatbelt advice on here. Sometimes things that some of the guys shy away from saying. And it is always intended to help in the given situation and I typically disclose that it's going to be extremely blunt tough love advice. But its just advice. Take it or leave it.

The idea that I'm somehow going to wear down the whole board? Laughable. Utterly ridiculous. If that's true then I'm in the wrong business doing healthcare & real estate! And my intent in being here is well meaning and uplifting and at times brutally unvarnished. There needs to be more MEN in the world folks. Men like my dad and my grandfather and uncles. Men's Men. It's a men's board, I know that, I understand folks may not like or appreciate me being here, some may not trust my motivation...and that's perfectly fine but at the end of the day I'm just one voice among many others.

I mean frankly just close the whole thread already if it's that big a deal. Augustus asked a question...I answered the question...simple. All this other silliness is just that.

And no its not because you guys are picking me apart. It seems the thread has devolved to a point of little value. If the mods disagree, leave it open. It matters not.

Cheers

I'm not sure why everyone is jumping on BeExcellent either lol. Jumping on BeExcellent for giving dating/relationship advice from the perspective of a "woman", would be like jumping on Bernie Madoff for giving financial management advice from the perspective of a "crook" lol.

BeExcellent nor 99.7% of women will NEVER tell you the raw, honest, truth of what they are attracted to because quite honestly........they can't verbalize it, they only react to it with certain feelings once they RUN across it.

So what type of advice are you expecting her to give? Are you expecting her to say ANY of the following below lol??

- Men, go fix your looks, workout, get a 6 pack like Tenacity, make sure you stay up to point on your dentist appointments, and SMILE.....all of which give you great "looks" because we women are very superficial when it comes to that stuff.

- Men, go get your money right by starting a business, moving up in corporate America, or whatever you have to do....to legally (preferred legally, but whatever) make around 6 figures a year because we women like to spend money like it grows on trees (just go to the store right now and see who is mostly shopping on Black Friday) so the more money YOU have, the more money I HAVE to spend.

- Men, make sure you fix your personality, attitude, etc., because we women like to be entertained and don't want some boring fvck-face around us.

- Men, make sure you know how to go down, eat pvssy, eat a.ss, and dyck us down right. You don't have to have a 18 inch DYCK but whatever the fvck you have, you better know how to use it and make us nut because us women LOVE to nut......and if you can't make me nut, trust, I will find someone who will (even if it's another woman).

- Men, don't be some push-over punk a.ss bytch. If we are out and some other dude disrespects me, I don't care how much bigger he is than you, I better see you TRY to step to that dude or I will forever lose respect for you.

- Men, don't embarrass us, you know I have my "career woman image" to maintain, so when I need you to put on a suit and come with me to a business function.......KNOW how to fvcking ACT around my business associates because if not, you will seriously piss me off.

BeExcellent would never, in a million years, say any of this lol. Neither will 99.7% of other women. But what I just listed above is what triggers attraction in women.

Always remember, women just RESPOND to what triggers them from an attraction standpoint, but they are completely incapable of fully detailing HOW they got triggered in the first place.

 

[BeExcellent]

The problem here is simply that these men are howling because someone reacted viscerally to the statement I made because it really bugs them on a deep level. You see some men here deep down actually WOULD like to be with a great woman for life. These guys are still carrying around that fantasy but some refuse to become good enough men and some say they are never getting married because of fear of failure. 50% of marriages fail? OK. That's the go to stat everybody likes to use around here. That means 50% succeed as well. Are you a winner or a loser? Can you screen and pick a great woman? Are you good enough in the looks/finances/status categories to attract a great woman? Can you manage risk? Some cannot wrap their brain around the fact that women worthy of marriage desire marriage. Period. Yes there is an agenda. Of course. Just like men who plan never to get married also have an agenda. I mean water is wet and grass is green. How is any of this a surprise?

Was I baited with this whole thread? Possibly. Do men run into the repercussions of being left behind by women who prefer at the end of the day to be married? Obviously. Don't whine. Get better. Become a man who has so much abundance it doesn't matter if one woman leaves you...you are sought after by others just like her. That is the message of this entire community. I have enough value that I have choices among high value men, yes even at my age, and yes, even though I have children already. So if something doesn't work out and I wish to date someone else? I have choices. Create choices for yourselves guys and then none of this discussion is going to affect you at all UNLESS honestly, deep down, you DO want a great woman who is some variety or ride or die/quality/worthy, etc.

@highSpeed said above that there are few good women. Well no shjt Sherlock. That means the law of supply and demand is working here. Great women are in high demand. Guess what? That means they get to name their price since they are very sought after. Their price in most instances, is marriage. And that, gentlemen, is where your own choice comes into play. You get to choose too. You can say Nope, marriage is too high a price...and the great women will say "OK. See Ya." Don't cry about it. Go get another woman!!! Right?

Oh wait. That's HARD because there are so few. OK you have 4 choices. Here they are:

1. Become such a sought after man that you have endless choice in the market place
2. Realize and accept that your relationships might end up being temporary once the girl finds you are not a marriage candidate and bolts
3. Reconsider your own stance regarding marriage
4. Date the remaning "trash" out there on the market and call it good.

Fact is most of you are option 3 guys deep down if you run into the woman who ticks all the boxes. A few of you are option 1 men, who have the luxury of choice, and the rest are option 2 guys (but some really deep down want their cake (the great chick - if they can find one) and eat it too (no marriage.) Good luck with that. Those guys are ticked they end up as option 4 guys.

What's laughable is that every beef these guys have with women has now been assigned to me personally along the way in the thread. My personal favorite is deesade saying that my stance is "don't think...FEEL". There isn't a single post I've made along those lines anywhere on SS that I'm aware of, so now we have guys who are liars assigning me things that I never did nor said, and spinning the things that I have said. So yes, there is plenty of gaslighting going on, I'm simply not the one doing it.

Marriage is a bad deal? Fine. Don't do it. And don't tell me how bad divorce court is. I've been there as the as the breadwinner & the one with assets on the line at the end of the day. So I was the one at risk. Because I already have children & my assets have things to fund (like college and retirement) it does not make since to put those assets at risk now because divorce court is a shjt show and nobody cares about morality there anymore (which I think is too bad.)

But understand that MANY if not MOST women, particularly of young child bearing age are NOT going to just date you indefinitely if you are a man who is never going to marry. Nope. If they have a need to get married to have babies and/or envision being a wife and mother one day, you'll lose them eventually whether they branch swing or break up with you. SORRY. You make your choices, they make their choices. That's just the way it is out there in the world.

Some of you guys are in relationships that are long standing where marriage may not be on the agenda. That's wonderful. But if marriage IS on her agenda then eventually she'll push for it, and when it becomes obvious that it isn't in the cards she'll be gone sooner or later.

 

[AJ84]

Don't confuse marriage with commitment. You can be committed and exclusive to someone without being married. They are two different things. However, women obviously feel differently because they have an agenda. And a man is the means to fulfilling that agenda.

Women want marriage when they feel it benefits them financially or socially. However, when their finances are at potential risk (BE, for example, is now concerned that it could hurt her financially) they won't push the marriage agenda because it could hurt them.

And with regard to BE getting "dumped on", my opinion is that she can handle herself just fine.

-Augustus-

I never confused marriage with a commitment. One can be in a committed relationship without getting married, I personally know couples who are.

Marriage is a preference for some women and also men. For those folks their focus is on finding someone to marry and that's what's important to them. It doesn't matter to you or I why that's important to them if their preference has zero impact on our lives.

I don't care what kind of relationships people look for. I only care what kind of relationships I look for. If some guy is wants to spin plates and believes other men should do the same I don't post here asking him to justify his preference and shame him for not wanting to settle down with one girl. I don't care.

Yes, many women have agendas, as do many men, hence the whole point of this site.

 

[AJ84]

You ignored that even women who want marriage have an intermediate "exclusive" boyfriend on the way to that marriage...which Beexcellent pointed it is not actually exclusive at all from her perspective (she would never tell her boyfriend this of course). That is the significance,a giant con game. The fact that women want to be married is not significant and would not warrant a thread.

What? Intermediate as in some dude she is seeing while waiting to meet the man she is going to marry?
Is that what you mean?

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

All threads end in the same place.

I can't get quality women, the world sucks.

The world doesn't suck, you suck.

No, no, you don't get it. I'm a high quality person, but I can't meet high quality people, so the world sucks.

No, no, you don't get it. I'm a high quality person and only high quality people know about how to find high quality people.

Bullshyte, show me pictures!

I don't need to show you pictures. I'm super awesome and my super awesome skills let me see the other super awesome people in the world.

Bullshyte. Everybody's trash. Every's scamming everybody. I'm awesome and the world's broken.

Nope, I'm awesome and there are awesome people! You just suck!

Fvck you!

No, Fvck you!

What's interesting (to me at least) is how people use so many goddamn words to repeat those same ideas over and over again. Reading between the lines is pretty fun. Like a hobby...

 

[AJ84]

Nah, changed my mind.

Not going to interrupt women relentlessly pushing marriage on a men's forum.

Have fun, ladies.[/QUOTE

I don't think BE nor I are relentlessly pushing marriage by stating that some women want marriage and won't settle on a guy who doesn't want that. Emphasis on some.

To be honest, I don't think marriage is the ideal relationship status that everyone should strive to arrive at. It's a personal preference based on realistic and unrealistic ideas of what marriage means. But for people who want that it's their choice and it doesn't matter why they choose it, but it helps explain why they don't settle for less than what they want.

People want what they want. Even if the reason seems dumb to us it doesn't change the fact they they behave in a way to get what they want. It's our choice whether we want to be impacted by that or not.

You meet a girl who you know wants to get married and you don't, find another girl who also doesn't want to get married.

 

[skinnyguy]

All threads end in the same place.

I can't get quality women, the world sucks.

The world doesn't suck, you suck.

No, no, you don't get it. I'm a high quality person, but I can't meet high quality people, so the world sucks.

No, no, you don't get it. I'm a high quality person and only high quality people know about how to find high quality people.

Bullshyte, show me pictures!

I don't need to show you pictures. I'm super awesome and my super awesome skills let me see the other super awesome people in the world.

Bullshyte. Everybody's trash. Every's scamming everybody. I'm awesome and the world's broken.

Nope, I'm awesome and there are awesome people! You just suck!

Fvck you!

No, Fvck you!

What's interesting (to me at least) is how people use so many goddamn words to repeat those same ideas over and over again. Reading between the lines is pretty fun. Like a hobby...

Lolll id give this 10 likes if I could.

 

[Roober]

There are a couple fallacies here that I am not going to completely dive into...

1. The divorce rate for first time marriages is actually closer to 25%. If you find divorces between couples of educated individuals that married later in their 20s, the rate is even lower. The high rate is due to those 2nd and 3rd marriages that fail. Additionally, the divorce rate has been on a steady decline over the past 20 years.

2. Divorce court is where men get ducked is completely false. Men are weak, have too much pride, or just plain lazy. I'm not going to dive into this, but almost every divorce is a cause of this.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Well let’s look at it like this: in order to find a gem, you have to go to a place where gems are found. Typically, you find them at your local jeweler. Well the men here are saying that there are no more real gems left, only the cheap Chinese generic kind. BE says that it’s not that it’s not the knock-off garbage, it’s just that the men can’t afford the $10,000 price tag of the jewels so they can’t find the value in them, and that in order to find said jewels, you need to have enough money for it (aka become high value).

Well the thing is though, everyone here is saying that even if they could afford the price tag, they still haven’t found any real gems. Even the men that are high value.

Another issue is that BE says ‘just become high value’ like it’s the easiest thing in the world. What she is saying is becoming even better than a 1% man. Like that’s easy to do. First off, it isn’t or else everyone would be high value. Second, if everyone is high value, then no one is. Third, there’s tons of stories where married women with children who still have boy toys on the side. Many of these boy toys are deadbeats that they wish they could fvck forever and ever but just can’t because they need the 1% man to provide for her.
_____________________________________
No, I say we get rid of the classical woman who is sweet and innocent as our ideal unicorn. I say we change this definition. A unicorn should be any girl who just is extremely in love with and attached to you for whatever reason. Essentially a woman whom you top her high score list. These women can still be sluts by the standard definition too (it’s 2017 guys, women love sex too; get used to it), but they are YOUR unicorn because they will still do anything (or almost anything) for you because of how much of an impact you’ve had on her. This is the way it’s supposed to be. Women have soulmates. Men do not. Oneitis is not natural. That is all.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

There are a couple fallacies here that I am not going to completely dive into...

1. The divorce rate for first time marriages is actually closer to 25%. If you find divorces between couples of educated individuals that married later in their 20s, the rate is even lower. The high rate is due to those 2nd and 3rd marriages that fail. Additionally, the divorce rate has been on a steady decline over the past 20 years.

2. Divorce court is where men get ducked is completely false. Men are weak, have too much pride, or just plain lazy. I'm not going to dive into this, but almost every divorce is a cause of this.

You’re gay.

 

[Tenacity]

All threads end in the same place.

I can't get quality women, the world sucks.

The world doesn't suck, you suck.

No, no, you don't get it. I'm a high quality person, but I can't meet high quality people, so the world sucks.

No, no, you don't get it. I'm a high quality person and only high quality people know about how to find high quality people.

Bullshyte, show me pictures!

I don't need to show you pictures. I'm super awesome and my super awesome skills let me see the other super awesome people in the world.

Bullshyte. Everybody's trash. Every's scamming everybody. I'm awesome and the world's broken.

Nope, I'm awesome and there are awesome people! You just suck!

Fvck you!

No, Fvck you!

What's interesting (to me at least) is how people use so many goddamn words to repeat those same ideas over and over again. Reading between the lines is pretty fun. Like a hobby...

So what's your solution ?

 

[BeExcellent]

There are a couple fallacies here that I am not going to completely dive into...

1. The divorce rate for first time marriages is actually closer to 25%. If you find divorces between couples of educated individuals that married later in their 20s, the rate is even lower. The high rate is due to those 2nd and 3rd marriages that fail. Additionally, the divorce rate has been on a steady decline over the past 20 years.

2. Divorce court is where men get ducked is completely false. Men are weak, have too much pride, or just plain lazy. I'm not going to dive into this, but almost every divorce is a cause of this.

Those stats are closer to accuracy actually but pointing that out simply ads fuel the those who are already screaming.

 

[BeExcellent]

No, I say we get rid of the classical woman who is sweet and innocent as our ideal unicorn. I say we change this definition. A unicorn should be any girl who just is extremely in love with and attached to you for whatever reason. Essentially a woman whom you top her high score list. These women can still be sluts by the standard definition too (it’s 2017 guys, women love sex too; get used to it), but they are YOUR unicorn because they will still do anything (or almost anything) for you because of how much of an impact you’ve had on her. This is the way it’s supposed to be.

There is wisdom in this post. If you find someone who loves you then you've got something special. Why not go from there? If you look at my unicorn post from a while back you'll see this very same dilemma was why I started that thread. That dilemma being the exact one that ITDG noted in his post above.

 

[Tenacity]

There are a couple fallacies here that I am not going to completely dive into...

1. The divorce rate for first time marriages is actually closer to 25%. If you find divorces between couples of educated individuals that married later in their 20s, the rate is even lower. The high rate is due to those 2nd and 3rd marriages that fail. Additionally, the divorce rate has been on a steady decline over the past 20 years.

2. Divorce court is where men get ducked is completely false. Men are weak, have too much pride, or just plain lazy. I'm not going to dive into this, but almost every divorce is a cause of this.

https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/32-Shocking-Divorce-Statistics.aspx

I never quite understood the "Men Are Weak" argument for why women initiate divorces. So are you saying that strong Men don't get divorced? If the man is weak, why did the woman marry him? What happened to for better or worse?

I just don't understand the arguments some of you guys make. Why not just keep this simple?

- Consider getting married if you have specific rewards, benefits, and social advantages in doing so (that's if you are a man or a woman)

- Don't even consider getting married if the above isn't present

It has nothing to do with someone being weak, strong, perfect, a unicorn, or any of this other "stuff" you guys keep talking about. Marriage is a damn BUSINESS CONTRACT people. A Contract! You only sign up for something that has particular benefits/rewards for YOU specifically in doing so. If you do not find the situation where getting married provides such rewards and benefits, then don't get married! This will be over 90% of the time for Men if they are being honest with the evaluation.

Having kids or wanting to have kids, does not require a Marriage Contract. Will it be a tougher sale? Yes. Will it likely be drama? Yes. But are you seriously saying that getting Married would ELIMINATE drama? Eliminate the stress? Eliminate having to negotiate/get "tough sales" through to women?

ANY legal relationship with women today (be it marriage, or having kids, and/or cohabitation) can bring drama. If you want to avoid all drama, do what I'm doing....which is to keep women in non-legal relationships and not making any kids.

You spin them on plates and you can even do committed relationships. But you can leave at any moment and if she starts DEMANDING you do a legal relationship with her in order to "keep her", then you just filter her out for another woman.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

So what's your solution ?

Humans are goal seeking organisms. The basic structure is like this:

1) Identify target.

2) Take action towards target.

3) Measure results of action.

4) Update as needed.

Everything else (forums, other people's opinions, misery sharing company,) is just noise.

All actions do one of two things:

Get you closer to your target

or

Not getting you closer to your target.

However, given the skill with which we deceive ourselves, this is much easier said than done.

You live, you try, you die.

Use your time wisely.

 

[AJ84]

No, I mean her boyfriend. She doesn't know if she will marry him at that stage. But that's obvious and your just being obtuse.

Many women know whether or not they are going to invest in someone fairly early on. For women with marriage on the mind, she will usually let him know.

I assume you are stating that some women string guys along before settling with someone else they choose to marry? That happens. Some men string women along who they have no intention of marrying. There are selfish men and women out there for sure.