Is This Guy Alpha?

[taiyuu_otoko]

I mean you can argue it is dependent on status but that status is subjective.

It's certainly a confusing term, especially when everybody uses it slightly differently.

In any group, there is always one singular alpha, which is situational.

Then there is "alpha-ness" which the more of it you have the more groups in which you'll be the singular "alpha."

If you have a good idea of your own relative status, you can sort of control how often you are the singular "alpha," by controlling the other people you associate with.

I suppose one objective (or desire) of being male is to increase the amount of situations in which you are the natural "alpha"

(This could be the same "masculinity" that @zekko was talking about.)

This can lead to confusion. How "alpha" are you could be taken to mean how many time are you the singular alpha in any given group.

In that regard, the label "alpha" could be a single label for a single individual, or an adjective with variable measurement, like "strength."

 

[Rainman4707]

He's artificially alpha, for sure, because he has options. Rollo Tomassi used to say this about himself back when he was playing in a band or something, he would get groupies and such due to being socially alpha. But when he's wife came around he found out that he was mush on the inside.

So who knows what this guy is like deep down. Kid Rock was an alpha too until Pamela Anderson came along and left him quivering in the corner.

All depends on how you're going to define alpha.

How did pam leave Kid rock quivering in a corner?

 

[Cambridge]

How about this guy?

voted yes. pretty solid frame, no?

Plenty of studies show that when you stick a bunch of strangers in a room, they WILL organize according to a hierarchy. It seems that humans can't NOT "judge" who is the dominant "human" in any group.

I think it's valuable to know where one "stacks up" among others, for plenty of reasons other than dating. if only for basic situational awareness.

is the hierarchy even real or just a mental construct?

in the case of neymar, he is at the top of the food chain in his circle and is currently enjoying global celebrity status. also, dude is wicked talented! maybe a better question to ask is: is he a worthwhile case study for me?

back to the topic of the "hierarchy", a weird experience I had just this Sunday:

I was at a local church with my 2 girls. We're experiencing a heatwave and the afternoons have been reaching triple-digits; people are melting. fans are selling out. good times. the church had thrown a last minute bbq and water-slide thing for kids (Gosh I love this church and all their free BBQs and kid programs). I'm wearing a church-branded t-shirt (i'm not religious but I run a book through them) and just enjoying the heat and watching the girls as they play on a huge inflatable water-slide. it's a wonderful day. meanwhile at the other end of the table I'm sitting at are some older people (maybe 10 years on me, in their 40s) chatting and enjoying a conversation which is clearly organized around one "alpha", a millionaire who owns a large ranch, businesses and he's drumming on and on about his latest vacations, recent vacation home purchases as well as his "escapades" with multiple girlfriends. this guy would probably qualify for most of our definitions of alpha: he has more money than he knows what to do with and has multiple plates. hell, he is even concurrently dating multiple women. he just recently "kicked out" his current live-in girlfriend because she was too "sensitive" because "its just not worth my piece of mind". he came across as confident and about moving his life forward and didn't seems to hesitate one inch to anything to further all of his goals and prospects.

Clearly this guy had lessons to teach ME! so... I decided to join the conversation and see what I could learn and add. (It's actually pretty rare to find this level of kick-ass in the medium-sized city in which I reside)

What happened next was that the alpha hat INSTANTLY shifted to me the second I joined. The pretty wife in her 40s at the table and all males instantly knew that I was in charge -- judging by their change in tonality, increased fidgeting, apparent desire to impress me and their eye-tells. sigh. if they only knew that I came here to learn from the other guy...

I could speculate as to why this happens (not the first time) but this guy kicks my ass in women and money but apparently his frame isn't that strong?

ANYWAYS the point is maybe alpha is BOTH dimensional and hierarchal, if it even exists.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

is the hierarchy even real or just a mental construct?

It's definitely real, not only in humans but pretty much every other animal. Study after studies show that humans and other animals organize into hierarchies, with one dude in charge and the rest falling in line.

It's pretty subtle, so it's easy to purposely ignore if you don't believe in it, but it's something girls definitely pick up on, again subconsciously.

 

[Cambridge]

It's pretty subtle, so it's easy to purposely ignore if you don't believe in it, but it's something girls definitely pick up on, again subconsciously.

physical attributes are heavily weighted during first impressions but in the case of, say, a work environment or the home where you see the same people every day, these have diminishing returns. Imagine if in that bar-drink-stealing scenario if the guy getting his drink stolen by the big guy was Conor McGregor: as soon as he crushes the big guys frame and the big guy can sense the skill and certainty, his size (and local status) will be irrelevant in that physical space.

Where it gets interesting is if you replace Conor McGregor in my example above with Aziz Ansari. He will probably also crush the big frame with the same efficacy as Conor, but now we've jumped from linear alpha enumeration into something that is more dimensional.

This academic exercise is moot when it comes to women lol

 

[RichardTheFrog]

It's definitely real, not only in humans but pretty much every other animal. Study after studies show that humans and other animals organize into hierarchies, with one dude in charge and the rest falling in line.

It's pretty subtle, so it's easy to purposely ignore if you don't believe in it, but it's something girls definitely pick up on, again subconsciously.

But you're talking about a tribe of 60 people. We now live in a world of over 7 billion.

Is there ONE alpha male here? Who has the power?

Governments? Banks? Corporations?

It's not Mr. Muscle Gym guy making $30,000/year.

It differs depending on where you go. If you go to rural Guatemala, you're probably ****ed no matter who you are.

 

[Cambridge]

but now we've jumped from linear alpha enumeration into something that is more dimensional.

Alpha then, is the belief that everyone can be ranked hierarchically beneath a singular dominant male.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Alpha then, is the belief that everyone can be ranked hierarchically beneath a singular dominant male.

I believe it's much more instinctive than any conscious ranking. It's just something we pick up on, like we sense which foods look better, which girls look better, and which guy in the room, based on the context is the alpha.

If you could somehow do an experiment by stopping time and looking side inside any girl's brain while inside any social situation, they would have a common guy they would choose, given the choice. It wouldn't be exact, but one guy would get most of the votes, and it would likely be very skewed.

It's instinctive to self-organize according to hierarchies, and this requires having a sense of who is alpha and who is not. Since humans are so complex, then a guy may be only alpha for a few minutes, but the continuous subconscious ranking of everybody in a group is something that's always happening automatically. Knowing how you stack up against others, depending on the context of the situation, is important.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

But you're talking about a tribe of 60 people. We now live in a world of over 7 billion.

Is there ONE alpha male here? Who has the power?

Studies have been done, (Cialdini) and they take a bunch of random dudes and put them in a room, ten each. There's always a guy in charge. Then they take those guys in charge, and put the "leaders" in a room, and there is again a guy in charge. Even when those dudes meet for the G8 or meetings at Bilderberg, the same thing happens. But it's highly contextual. For dudes on SoSuave, it's just about knowing where you stand within groups (where you are on the social hierarchy) and doing anything you can to work your way up. Income, social skills, conversation skills, leadership skills, all these are required to be a guy in the top 10% who has the most choice with the average girl you'll meet in average places.

But most of the power in the world really does sit with a small group.

Blow this up and look at the dudes in the center. (source) These guys are more or less the alpha of Earth.

 

[Cambridge]

It's instinctive to self-organize according to hierarchies, and this requires having a sense of who is alpha and who is not.

I take your point that it is part of the programming in our croc brains, but like most croc brain programming if you can wire in new beliefs, they will override primitive programs like this one. Haven't you ever experienced someone smashing through an alpha even though the alpha outranked them in virtually every aspect? If your goal is to rank high on these primitive ladder systems then you need merely to believe that you are the greatest, and convert others to this belief. Most people can't jump straight to belief without the skills or achievements.

my initial wiring is based on looks, strength, size, success and influence but as my beliefs change I've begun to see skill, wisdom and understanding which has changed my inner certainty considerably.

Also, many adept DJs and PUAs have learned that you merely need to act the part well-enough so that you convince others and you will enjoy the alpha benefits.

 

[Cambridge]

It's instinctive to self-organize according to hierarchies, and this requires having a sense of who is alpha and who is not.

I take your point that it is part of the programming in our croc brains, but like most croc brain programming if you can wire in new beliefs, they will override primitive programs like this one. Haven't you ever experienced someone smashing through an alpha even though the alpha outranked them in virtually every aspect? If your goal is to rank high on these primitive ladder systems then you need merely to believe that you are the greatest, and convert others to this belief. Most people can't jump straight to belief without the skills or achievements.

my initial wiring is based on looks, strength, size, success and influence but as my beliefs change I've begun to see skill, wisdom and understanding which has changed my inner certainty considerably.

Also, many adept DJs and PUAs have learned that you merely need to act the part well-enough so that you convince others and you will enjoy the alpha benefits.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

If they just want sex or fun alpha might not be the top choice.

 

[bigneil]

Studies have been done, (Cialdini) and they take a bunch of random dudes and put them in a room, ten each. There's always a guy in charge.

Exactly! Alpha is a relative term. Unless you're Trump (who is married to a woman 25 years his junior I might add), you are not always Alpha. With just your cat, yes, you are Alpha.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

like most croc brain programming if you can wire in new beliefs, they will override primitive programs like this one.

The programming to sort for alpha is the same programming that makes us eat more than we need.

So the amount of fat people you see around is an indication of just how hard it is in theory to "rewire our croc brain."

You will NEVER be able to rewire your hunger response to food, and you will never be able to rewire your deep tendency to organize in hierarchies, which is present in all mammals.

Despite how simple it sounds in theory, in any contest of conscious brain vs. unconscious programming, cave man brain wins ever single time.

(this is the reason behind the common, "attraction isn't a choice" thing. The idea of consciously rewiring our ancient programming is like trying to consciously program yourself to get a boner from a fat smelly girl.)

If we could rewire our ancient brains, nobody would cheat and nobody would be fat and nobody would respond to these silly social proof signals on sosuave.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

The programming to sort for alpha is the same programming that makes us eat more than we need.

So the amount of fat people you see around is an indication of just how hard it is in theory to "rewire our croc brain."

You will NEVER be able to rewire your hunger response to food, and you will never be able to rewire your deep tendency to organize in hierarchies, which is present in all mammals.

Despite how simple it sounds in theory, in any contest of conscious brain vs. unconscious programming, cave man brain wins ever single time.

(this is the reason behind the common, "attraction isn't a choice" thing. The idea of consciously rewiring our ancient programming is like trying to consciously program yourself to get a boner from a fat smelly girl.)

If we could rewire our ancient brains, nobody would cheat and nobody would be fat and nobody would respond to these silly social proof signals on sosuave.

Then how do you explain that not everyone is fat?

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Then how do you explain that not everyone is fat?

That's missing the point. Most of the non-fat people aren't thin because they've successfully rewired their caveman brains. Their thin for other reasons beyond their control. (Genetics, upbringing, etc.) When you look at fat people that TRY to be thin, it's nearly impossible. Studies have shown that less than 2% of fat people who lose weight ever keep it off for more than a year or so.

That's the main point. Fighting against caveman programming is very difficult, and few people can do it sustainable.

Most alphas are alphas because of genetic programming or other environmental reasons beyond their control.

Most thin people are thin because of genetic programming or other environment reasons beyond their control.

You can't "decide" to become alpha if you're not any more than you can "decide" to be thin if you're fat.

You can shift from less alpha to more alpha, but it takes a ton of consistent effort, just like a fat person becoming thin.

And no, I'm not saying thin people are the same as alpha. That is just a metaphorical comparison to illustrate how hard it is to fight against genetics and environmental factors, which are mostly out of our control.

I'm also not saying you should give up. Strive to be the small percentage who can slowly improve and keep the gains.

 

[Alvafe]

if that little prick is alpha then you are pretty much tossing character of the window as a good trait for a dude, he is 25 still act like a kid, love to fake, and toss himself to the ground with just a strong breeze, playing on barcelona was easy since he had the whole barcelona team to help him, I'm curious to see what he will do now

 

[Cambridge]

You will NEVER be able to rewire your hunger response to food,.

the rising obesity rates in North America disprove this since no statistically significant change in human biology has occurred in the last 20 years. People aren't getting fatter because humans are evolving, they are getting fatter because of lifestyle changes, environment changes and the like.

Another example, a guy once fasted for a year straight (scotland in the 70s) without any health side effects and kept the weight off permanently. I believe we CAN rewire our "nurturing" and optimize our "nature".

I'd rewrite your above statement as: "you will NEVER be able to organically rewire you basic body chemistry and composition but you can optimize it"

You can't "decide" to become alpha if you're not any more than you can "decide" to be thin if you're fat.

I think of Bruce Lee's early videos before he reached his peak - he wasn't 100% comfortable in his skills and it showed up on camera sometimes. If you rewound the clock to his early 20s I doubt any of us could have predicted how strong, powerful and alpha he would become by the time he was 30.

But now I'm conflating my definition of alpha which has nothing to do with hierarchy and everything to do with raising every skill, trait and opportunity to its zenith.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

the rising obesity rates in North America disprove this since no statistically significant change in human biology has occurred in the last 20 years. People aren't getting fatter because humans are evolving, they are getting fatter because of lifestyle changes, environment changes and the like.

I think you misunderstand my point. Humans get hungry. You can't ever change that. That was my point. You can't "rewire" your hunger response. It will always exist. You can manage how you respond to it, how to satisfy it, but it will always be there.

Bruce Lee didn't "decide" to become alpha.

He worked his a$$ off for several years to BECOME alpha. And even then he wasn't alpha in very many situations.

I believe we CAN rewire our "nurturing" and optimize our "nature".

One guy "maybe" fasted for a year. One guy out of seven billion.

Giving singular examples doesn't change the fact that most people are SLAVES to their hunger.

As most women are SLAVES to their response to an alpha who happens to be present (attraction isn't a choice).

 

[RichardTheFrog]

I think you misunderstand my point. Humans get hungry. You can't ever change that. That was my point. You can't "rewire" your hunger response. It will always exist. You can manage how you respond to it, how to satisfy it, but it will always be there.

Bruce Lee didn't "decide" to become alpha.

He worked his a$$ off for several years to BECOME alpha. And even then he wasn't alpha in very many situations.



One guy "maybe" fasted for a year. One guy out of seven billion.

Giving singular examples doesn't change the fact that most people are SLAVES to their hunger.

As most women are SLAVES to their response to an alpha who happens to be present (attraction isn't a choice).

Bruce Lee is a pus$y compared to a gun.