What is the rate of success of Pro Don Juans

[pancakepalace]

I've recently got back in the game after a long hiatus. Was married for a while, then sick for many years. Healthy now. Use to be good player 15 years ago, always had many girls at once, now getting back into it step by step.

Started again like 3 weeks ago. Been approaching lots. Getting numbers. I managed to the the numbers of 2 different girls at a party, then invite them both to an afterparty and they both came. I called them a few days later for dates. One gave an excuse, the other said yes, but then stood me up the day of the date.

I'm wondering what is your rate of success when you get numbers? The girl seems interested, she gives you her number. What is the percentage of this that leads to getting a date? I'd like to know from the best Don Juan, as a way to gauge how I am doing.

 

[bigneil]

According to Louis and Copeland 2000 a successful seducer gets a phone number from 1 in 10 women he likes, and has sex with 1 in 4 women he dates, so he seduces 1 in 40 women he likes, or 2.5%.

 

[Dr. Reed]

Let me know if I can be of help. I am a seduction coach, but I do not take business from this forum. I come here to vet my ideas and get feedback on my book. Also, the DJ Bible is an EXCELLENT resource. I have integrated some of it into my book.

Are you reading the Bible? You should. I am a real Ph.D with a degree from a tier one University. I say this, not to brag, but because I am immersed in both academia and seduction forums. When I say something is good, it is good.

Read the Bible.

I have been thinking of coaching someone on the boards for free, although I would have to get approval from the mods.

If you are closing only 10% then you have a HUGE problem. I would have to look at your approach, rapport building etc. Guys I coach are hitting a 50% mark early on.

I have posted some field reports, please read them.

By the time I finished fine tuning my system I was number closing at least two of the three women I approached that day. I would get the date with more than 80% of the woman. Of those women I kiss closed more than 65%. Of that 65% I would have sex with 80%.

Before I was married I ran a 3 woman rotation. I had a Tuesday night gal, a Thursday night gal, and a Sat night gal. I had sex at least 3 times with each of these women. That equals 10 times a week. These were all high quality women who wanted marriage.

That was 12 years ago (I stopped seeing other women once I committed to my wife) but I made her earn it. I have never cheated on my wife, but I still open women all time. I perfected my system 12 years ago. Today, everything is natural for me. I have 22 years utilizing my system. As I said, I still game women, otherwise my confidence would fall and I would become needy and weak. I get a lot of numbers still because I try and get these women to pay me for personal training or martial arts training.

Keep in mind, I taught college for 10 years. That means I was in front of a ton of beautiful women lecturing, every day. Gaming women, closing...It is like breathing, I do it naturally.

I am not really very special. My success comes from my system, and most importantly not making mistakes.

Any guy could do it I he worked hard enough and was disciplined.

I have seen that in the men I have coached (I can give examples if you wish). They use my system, do great, but then stop doing the things I taught them.
I coach men to run a 3 women rotation. The use my program, but then stop using it once they start dating a gal they got.

 

[fastlife]

Super small sample size. But phone numbers mean less now than they ever did (you're putting yourself in a queue with all the validation & dopamine in the world)--and girls give out their number to everybody. I don't keep track of percentages, but if I had to guess it would go something like this:

• If I approach 10 girls, I'll get 9 #s
• Of those 9 #s, 8 of them will respond to the first text
• Of those 8 #s, 4 of them will stop responding before or immediately after an invite to hangout
• Of those 4 #s, 3 of them will flake on the first 'date' (I have a higher % inviting girls straight to my apt than I do trying to get them out for drinks or coffee)
• So 10 approaches = 1 solid lead (though usually I can get 1 of the flakes to show up for a meetup later), so we'll say 10 approaches = 1.5 dates
• Not all of those hangouts lead to sex, though I close probably about 33% of the time

So something like 20-30 approaches for one lay--or 3-5%, close to @bigneil's figure (though I approach tons of women I have no intention of closing with just for fun & to warm up). And I think you'll do way, way better to prioritize having fun experiences & meeting cool girls over worrying about your batting average or whatever.

That said, the only sure chance you have of ever seeing a girl again, is to fvck her the night you meet her. This isn't always possible due to logistics or whatever else--but it should always be what you go for. And for the record, I pretty much only talk to girls in the 18-21 y/o range & I have high standards, so I'm probably dealing with the flakiest of the flakes.

Girls haven't really changed that much, but logistics have. Tons more exposure & validation & competition in general. So the worst thing you can do is take it personally. Some of these girls will be totally in love with me the night I meet them and then never respond. Is what it is.

 

[Red Legg]

I am in an LTR now (7 months) but when I was approaching regularly I could definitely get about 4 numbers out of 10 approaches. I think a background in sales helped me in my approaches.I used to be (years ago) a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman.I had to talk my way into a house and then sale a 2000 dollar vacuum,I challenge anyone to try that sometime.I got salesman of the month repeatedly from the vacuum company.This experience helped me in cold approaching in which I am absolutely fearless.I have pulled 10 numbers in a day before and ended up fvcking 7 of them,but as every salesman knows it's the law of averages.

 

[Dr. Reed]

Super small sample size. But phone numbers mean less now than they ever did (you're putting yourself in a queue with all the validation & dopamine in the world)--and girls give out their number to everybody. I don't keep track of percentages, but if I had to guess it would go something like this:

• If I approach 10 girls, I'll get 9 #s
• Of those 9 #s, 8 of them will respond to the first text
• Of those 8 #s, 4 of them will stop responding before or immediately after an invite to hangout
• Of those 4 #s, 3 of them will flake on the first 'date' (I have a higher % inviting girls straight to my apt than I do trying to get them out for drinks or coffee)
• So 10 approaches = 1 solid lead (though usually I can get 1 of the flakes to show up for a meetup later), so we'll say 10 approaches = 1.5 dates
• Not all of those hangouts lead to sex, though I close probably about 33% of the time

So something like 20-30 approaches for one lay--or 3-5%, close to @bigneil's figure (though I approach tons of women I have no intention of closing with just for fun & to warm up). And I think you'll do way, way better to prioritize having fun experiences & meeting cool girls over worrying about your batting average or whatever.

That said, the only sure chance you have of ever seeing a girl again, is to fvck her the night you meet her. This isn't always possible due to logistics or whatever else--but it should always be what you go for. And for the record, I pretty much only talk to girls in the 18-21 y/o range & I have high standards, so I'm probably dealing with the flakiest of the flakes.

Girls haven't really changed that much, but logistics have. Tons more exposure & validation & competition in general. So the worst thing you can do is take it personally. Some of these girls will be totally in love with me the night I meet them and then never respond. Is what it is.

First, you are a smart guy who obviously has his head together. I am not criticizing you. However, your closing should be higher. Your primary problem is you use texting. There are times when texting is good, but not to set the first date.

Texting is a weak form of communication. When you text a woman instead of calling her she thinks "why is this guy texting me, is he not man enough to call and talk to me?"

Texting is WORSE if you go back in forth. Who does a pretty woman text back and forth with? her Girlfriends. Texting is a fast track to the friend zone. Early communication is via the phone and limited. If she wants to talk to you, she has to see you, face to face on a date.

There are only 2 situation when you should text. When getting the number, and right before the date. You don't ask if she is going to make it, you just confirm the location.

There is a post in the Bible about texting. I think the guys name is Amante Silvestre

 

[Dr. Reed]

I am in an LTR now (7 months) but when I was approaching regularly I could definitely get about 4 numbers out of 10 approaches. I think a background in sales helped me in my approaches.I used to be (years ago) a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman.I had to talk my way into a house and then sale a 2000 dollar vacuum,I challenge anyone to try that sometime.I got salesman of the month repeatedly from the vacuum company.This experience helped me in cold approaching in witch I am absolutely fearless.I have pulled 10 numbers in a day before and ended up fvcking 7 of them,but as every salesman knows it's the law of averages.

Date like a Samurai, my fearless friend.

 

[fastlife]

First, you are a smart guy who obviously has his head together. I am not criticizing you. However, your closing should be higher. Your primary problem is you use texting. There are times when texting is good, but not to set the first date.

Texting is a weak form of communication. When you text a woman instead of calling her she thinks "why is this guy texting me, is he not man enough to call and talk to me?"

Texting is WORSE if you go back in forth. Who does a pretty woman text back and forth with? her Girlfriends. Texting is a fast track to the friend zone. Early communication is via the phone and limited. If she wants to talk to you, she has to see you, face to face on a date.

There are only 2 situation when you should text. When getting the number, and right before the date. You don't ask if she is going to make it, you just confirm the location.

There is a post in the Bible about texting. I think the guys name is Amante Silvestre

With all due respect, already field tested all that. You think an 18 y/o will pick up the phone for a guy she just met? HINT--this isn't 2005; she barely has the social skills to talk on the phone. It will go straight to voicemail; chances are her VM isn't even set up. Now, if you have established some rapport via text & she's chasing but a little wishy washy, a phone call can be super useful since you can put in more subcommunications, etc., but it's a near 0 percentage play starting out.

Or let's say you meet a girl Saturday night and don't have another time slot until Wednesday. You text her when you get her number and then schedule the meetup on Sunday. Then you disappear. You know what happens between Sunday and Wednesday? SHE FORGETS--even if she was really excited about you Sunday. This isn't 2005. I like talking to girls I have over about what kind of DMs they get on Instagram or whatever. A lot of them show me their phone (since it lets them DHV). Take two of the girls I had over this summer--one of them had like 250 unread text messages, 400 Instagram notification, 600 Snapchat notifications (she's C-level IG famous); the other, who has a much more modest social media presence, still had 150 unread texts. Think about that for a minute.

Between Sunday and Wednesday she's received more validation & more offers for her time than your wife did in 12 months, or possibly ever. If she's even responding to your texts, you're in the top 1%; but disappear and see if it even registers.

I've gone on record as saying the DJ Bible is outdated in 2017. The mindsets & core advice is timeless, but the practical application advice is pretty much handing guys bows & arrows when everyone else is using drones. I don't pretend to have things anywhere close to figured out--but you can always tell who has their boots on the ground & what level of girls they're dealing with. That's not a knock on you, but things are changing at a ridiculous rate.

 

[bigneil]

"Guys I'm coaching get 50%". Note I was talking about women you LIKE. That is, women who walk by on the street, etc.

For me it's like this:

• Women I like: I get to talk to 1 in 4 times.
• Women I talk to: I get phone number 3 in 4 times.
• Women who give their number text back 2 of 3 times.
• Women who text back agree to date 1 in 2 times.
• Women on date have sex 1 in 3 times.

So if I meet 256 women:

• I talk to 64
• I get 48 phone numbers.
• 32 text back.
• 16 go on a date.
• 5 have sex.

So roughly 1 in 50 women who I like (note - I only like HB8 or HB9 women half my age) have sex with me.

 

[pancakepalace]

So roughly 1 in 50 women who I like (note - I only like HB8 or HB9 women half my age) have sex with me.

That seems crazy low. I was getting way way way better numbers than that back in the day. Maybe things have changed?

 

[BeTheChange]

First, you are a smart guy who obviously has his head together. I am not criticizing you. However, your closing should be higher. Your primary problem is you use texting. There are times when texting is good, but not to set the first date.

Texting is a weak form of communication. When you text a woman instead of calling her she thinks "why is this guy texting me, is he not man enough to call and talk to me?"

Texting is WORSE if you go back in forth. Who does a pretty woman text back and forth with? her Girlfriends. Texting is a fast track to the friend zone. Early communication is via the phone and limited. If she wants to talk to you, she has to see you, face to face on a date.

There are only 2 situation when you should text. When getting the number, and right before the date. You don't ask if she is going to make it, you just confirm the location.

There is a post in the Bible about texting. I think the guys name is Amante Silvestre

This advice is terrible.

 

[Dr. Reed]

.

With all due respect, already field tested all that. You think an 18 y/o will pick up the phone for a guy she just met? HINT--this isn't 2005; she barely has the social skills to talk on the phone. It will go straight to voicemail; chances are her VM isn't even set up. Now, if you have established some rapport via text & she's chasing but a little wishy washy, a phone call can be super useful since you can put in more subcommunications, etc., but it's a near 0 percentage play starting out.

Or let's say you meet a girl Saturday night and don't have another time slot until Wednesday. You text her when you get her number and then schedule the meetup on Sunday. Then you disappear. You know what happens between Sunday and Wednesday? SHE FORGETS--even if she was really excited about you Sunday. This isn't 2005. I like talking to girls I have over about what kind of DMs they get on Instagram or whatever. A lot of them show me their phone (since it lets them DHV). Take two of the girls I had over this summer--one of them had like 250 unread text messages, 400 Instagram notification, 600 Snapchat notifications (she's C-level IG famous); the other, who has a much more modest social media presence, still had 150 unread texts. Think about that for a minute.

Between Sunday and Wednesday she's received more validation & more offers for her time than your wife did in 12 months, or possibly ever. If she's even responding to your texts, you're in the top 1%; but disappear and see if it even registers.

I've gone on record as saying the DJ Bible is outdated in 2017. The mindsets & core advice is timeless, but the practical application advice is pretty much handing guys bows & arrows when everyone else is using drones. I don't pretend to have things anywhere close to figured out--but you can always tell who has their boots on the ground & what level of girls they're dealing with. That's not a knock on you, but things are changing at a ridiculous rate.

Like I said, you seem to be a good guy, you just don't understand how the female mind works. You are probably charismatic in person, but there are so many mistakes here I will only touch upon the largest. When you say women have changed between 2005 and 2017 are you implying that they have evolved, that their brain structure is new?

No, we have not changed much in the last 8 thousand years. The principles of generating romantic love are the same. Newer techs like text messaging have not changed the mind one bit. If you understand brain chemistry and evolutionary hard wiring you will understand how and why text messaging early on in a relationship creates problems AND kills interest level.

I advocate running a three woman rotation (Tue, Thursday/Sat) because (among other things) it creates situations an feelings that work on the female brain

Our brains are fundamentally different. Have you studied evolutionary psychology/biology? Do you understand how more than 100,000 years of evolution have structured the mind? Before you do anything you must first understand these differences. My system is based upon the science of the human mind

Grey matter areas of the brain are information to action centers. Grey matter contains lots of cell bodies and relatively few myelinated axons, while white matter contains relatively few cell bodies and lots of of myelinated axons. White matter affects learning distribution and coordinates communication between different brain regions. It is more process oriented. That is why females operate from what I call a “Process Oriented Paradigm.” You must understand how women operate.

You say you "field tested all that." What do you mean? Here are the basics you need to reject understand my position. Do you understand the basic structural and operational paradigm that women have? It is different from men. There is an article in the Bible regarding texting you should read. Yes, when you are getting a woman's number, text her while you are still in front of her to make shure the number is legit, but absolutely no more. You don't set up the date, you disappear for 3 4 days then you CALL. TYexting is weak. Women have a biological drive created by evolutionary adaptations to pair bond with only the strongest men! Texting is weak, weak, weak. Be a man, call.



You illustrate this point perfectly: Fastlife: "Or let's say you meet a girl Saturday night and don't have another time slot until Wednesday. You text her when you get her number and then schedule the meetup on Sunday. Then you disappear. You know what happens between Sunday and Wednesday? SHE FORGETS--even if she was really excited about you Sunday. This isn't 2005. I like talking to girls I have over about what kind of DMs they get on Instagram or whatever. A lot of them show me their phone (since it lets them DHV). Take two of the girls I had over this summer--one of them had like 250 unread text messages, 400 Instagram notification, 600 Snapchat notifications (she's C-level IG famous); the other, who has a much more modest social media presence, still had 150 unread texts. Think about that for a minute.

Please re read what you posted...she is getting 1,500 texts, Instagram, Snapchats a week. Of course she is going to forget someone who texts, you are competing with 14,999 other guys. Weak! Texting says "I am too scared to actually call you up, so please go out with me please, please, please!"

Women want men.

Only two men called her, and those are the ones she will remember. The have larger balls, the are men. Remember "Machete don't text" he knows because textingh is for weaklings.http://search.myway.com/search/video.jhtml?n=78392288&p2=^BSB^xdm061^S19519^us&pg=video&pn=1&ptb=37F65452-E89C-4584-AC28-39C5C6F2E840&qs=&searchfor=machette+don't+text&si=COj-2MPMptECFQREhgodsP0DYw&ss=sub&st=tab&tpr=sbt&trs=wtt

Women are biologically driven to find men who can hunt/gather, and protect. Texters don't hunt, gather, or protect, they run away and live in their parents basement.

If you call you have much better prospects. Finally, if a woman forgets you that means she never had any interest you in the first place. You MUST game them properly from moment one, go look at some of my openers. hardly any women ever forgot about meeting me, and if she did I would drop her right then and there as she was never interested in you in the first place. When you have generated interest in a woman, she will remember.

I game women so that they will NEVER (or at least for a long time) forget me. Go read the field report I made yesterday....Actually, I will post it up

 

[Dr. Reed]

Here is a recent example of an open I did 2 days ago. I get at least 3-4 of these a week. I would number close a lot more if I were still single. I only do it now to keep my game strong to avoid "oneites" with my wife. That is her pic on my avatar. I am 55 and ugly, but I still successfully open women every day.

I won't post it publically, but I could show the FB page of the 20 year old I number closed 6 weeks ago (I ended up training her). To someone who would not post it publically.

I still open women. All day every day. Yes, I am married. No, I have never cheated on my wife. Why do I open? Because it keeps my game strong, keeps me confident, and also because I love it. I am 55 and ridiculously ugly but I still open women daily. If they want personal training I number close. I usually get the number without even asking. I have never cheated on my wife.

It is all a matter of practice and confidence. I still open women because if I did not, there would be only one woman in my life, my wife. My brain would then go into scarcity mode. I would become clingy, needy. Her interest level would drop. I would call during the day just to “check up” which translates as insecurity

I stay active because it keeps my wife in love with me. If she left me I would have a new woman on my arm in less than a day.

To illustrate, I was at the pharmacy last night. A gorgeous young woman was working the cash register. Her back was to me, and she had very, very long straight black hair (I love long black straight hair). It was braided and down to her butt. Like I said she was turned away from me. I said “Rapunzel, hello, can I get 5000 boxes of Sudafed?” Sudafed is used to make methamphetamine.

She wheeled around and said “sir we cannot sell more than 2 boxes at a time!”

I replied “I promise not to make meth out of it, I swear. I just have a really runny nose.”

Now I had her attention. She laughed and said “what can I get you?” I said “Seroquell. With my insurance I pay $2, but I sell them at the nightclub for $35. I sell meth to people going out to party, and the Seroquell is to bring them down.

BTW, you are really helpful, sorry about calling you Rapunzle. Is your hair longer than Mary’s?” (Mary is the head pharmacist who also has very long black hair).

She said “about the same.” I said “want to hear a story about black hair?” She said “sure.”

When I was dating my wife 12 years ago, she found a long black hair in my sock drawer. She demanded “whose is this?” I said, “yours sweetie.” She said “no, it is 2 inches longer than my hair.” Fortunately, I had only been dating my wife for 5 weeks at that time. I did not (and you should not) commit to monogamy until the 8 week mark. My wife used to park down the street and stalk me. One time she knocked on my door 5 minutes after another gal left.

The pretty counter gal said “you are so bad!” I said “you are lucky I am married. Were I not, I would be hitting on you right now, even though I am old and really ugly. Count your blessings.” She replied “you aren’t that ugly.”

Now I had her laughing. I asked “do you want to be a pharmacist?” She said “no I want to be a dentist.” I said “EWW, that means your fingers are going to be in someones mouth all day, ickey.” Speaking of fingers, your hand is tiny. I said “compare it to mine.” I have large hands. She put her hand up and pressed it against mine.

I told her “ha, you just fell for my kino test.” She asked “what is that?” I said “I got you to touch me.” “When you touch me your interest level increases.”

She asked “how do you know all this?” I said “I am a seduction expert.” I am writing a book. If you are a really, really good girl I will give you a copy. Then I walked away. If I were single I would most certainly have number closed.

So, that is an example of a natural game opening. This was last night. Obviously I do not take it further, but it keeps my confidence high. My face is so red and ugly that I frighten small children and animals. I have the body of a big bodybuilder, but my face is pretty repulsive. I can barely believe these young pretty women give me the time of day, but they do.

If I can do it, you can too.

 

[Dr. Reed]

Here is the opener on a gorgeous 20 year old I ended up personal training:

I have a massage therapist I see, she works at a place that is also a tanning facility. They normally have a very pretty gal working the front desk. If so, I run my The Kim Kardashian opener (I despise the Kardashians, but the opener works).

The salon always has a very pretty twenty something gal working at the front desk, usually a new one every month or so.

I have your stereotypical Irish skin that is very red. The last thing I need is to tan. Nonetheless, I will walk up to the front desk and start inquiring about tanning products, invariably starting off with the “Kardashian Glow” products and moving on to the “Snookie” and “JAWOW products. They are all ridiculously expensive, more than $100 each. I will rack up hundreds of dollars worth of their products stacked up next to the cash register.

I act super excited “Oh wow, I love those JWOW products”, or whatever overpriced crap they are selling. It almost always takes a while for the pretty gal to realize that it is all a big joke. I have used this same structured line repeatedly and I have personal trained (weights and martial arts) three different women from my salon. The last one was 20 and beautiful.
It almost always takes a while for the pretty gal to realize that it is all a big joke. I keep saying, oh, let me see that one, eventually I have 8 bottles (over $1k) until the gal realizes I am playing with her.

The moment she realizes what is going on I say "You are having a blond moment. You are lucky I only like brunettes or otherwise I would be hitting on you.

I number closed her I trained and her for a bit, but even at my discounted rate she could not afford to pay. Did I mention that I am 55 years old and ugly? I have a bodybuilders physique, but my face frightens small children and animals.

It is all about your level of game. If you get good, she will not forget about you.

 

[Dr. Reed]

 

[Dr. Reed]

That ^ is the 20 year old I ran the Kim Kardashian Opener on. I am going to take it down in a bit.

 

[Dr. Reed]

I think you guys are over valuing phone game. I've slept with hundreds of women and never had phone game in my life. I ask women to "hang out" when I am talking to her in person, I don't ask for phone numbers.

The woman has to remind me that she has to give me her number so that we could keep in touch until the date. Even then I don't use it to communicate with her until the day of the date for confirmation.

If you value a woman's number, she is going to think you are a loser.

But I do agree about the calling part. Women always call me to confirm. They wanna hear my voice on the day we are supposed to hang out.

There is something creepy and unsettling for women you've never dated when confirming a date on text.

I am not saying have an artistic 30 min convo with her. Just call her to confirm with your reassuring voice.

The key is to be like the male version of a hot woman. If a hot woman wants you, she asks you to hangout with her. She doesn't try to get your number so that she could game you on the phone. That's low value behavior.

Even when I was a pickup artist and approached tons of women back in 2010, every interaction ended with "let's get together" or "I'm gonna take you on an adventure". If anything I ended up flaking on countless women because I would overbook myself without even caring.

That's how you beat the game.

You overbook yourself with dates in person and you have to cancel on women.

You are definitely coming from a place of strength, that is for sure. Asking for a date when you meet her is definitely manly. The only problem is, I am a very busy guy. I need to go over my schedule first before I can make the date plan. I do so and make sure I have the available opening. She might be busy on the day you want to see her. If so she has to counter offer (is she does not, forget about it). If she does counter offer you then have to make sure she does so on a day you are also free.

It takes me about 5 minutes to review my schedule, and I must do so prior to asking her out. You cannot do that in the nanosecond you have when you first meet her. Back when I was single I had a full time University job, a lot of driving and I trained every day. I had very little free time, especially since I already had a Tuesday, Thursday, Sat rotation schedule.

Your solution is to overbook. Personally, I would never do so. First, I do not set up a date in a women I am marginally interested in. Second, do you like getting stood up? Why would you intentionally do it to someone? We are Don Juans, but also gentlemen.

 

[wifehunter]

100%

 

[bigneil]

That seems crazy low. I was getting way way way better numbers than that back in the day. Maybe things have changed?

Wait, you are saying if you see 50 HB8.5 women who are half your age, you can have sex with WAY more than 2? I don't think you're doing the math right. You mean back in the day when you were 20? I'm 47.

I'm not talking about 50 dates, I'm not talking 50 girls from your high school, I'm talking about 50 girls you see somewhere in the world who you don't know.

Several of us came out with numbers between 1 in 20 and 1 in 40.

 

[RangerMIke]

If you are worrying about your rate of success you are wasting time. Women who will not go out with you are NOTHING. At some level if you are worrying about success rates you care about the ones that reject you. Fvck them.... they do not exist.

If you have trouble making dates then work on self improvement, change your approach. You start to see a pattern on what kinds of chicks dig you and you just focus on them.