Woman asked me how come I never texted her when I got home from our date.

[QuadDeuces]

Next her, if she wanted to talk to you she could have texted you first.
Drama queen.

 

[BeExcellent]

BeExcellent is raising her daughters not to be obnoxious texters? Good luck with that.

I disagree. Think of the man as her would-be employer and the date as an interview. You don't get to say thank you in person and not send a thank-you note (in writing) after the interview. The boss might not have heard you say thank-you.

It is common knowledge that it is bad practice (and often costs you a job) if you don't send a thank-you note after a job.

You might say I'm not her boss, but if I'm paying for dinner, that is the nature of the relationship.

You are welcome to disagree. I'm not dating you. What I'm doing is working fine and my calendar is as full asI can handle. And yes, I'm raising my girls not to be obnoxious texters.

More importantly I'm raising my girls to be patient and observant. This is the best way for a woman to gauge interest level in a man. If a woman is not patient and does not wait for a man's initiative then how can she tell if the guy likes her and would make the (honestly fairly small) effort of reaching out?

A wise woman chooses from among those men who show interest in her. If you are attractive men will show interest. The more attractive the more & better choices a woman has, especially if she offers desirable attributes in addition to looks.

A woman is smart to have enough patience & self restraint to wait until a man she really fancies shows interest in her. For attractive women it's not a long wait...

But relatively few women have that kind of patience. That I would certainly acknowledge.

 

[bigneil]

If a woman is not patient and does not wait for a man's initiative then how can she tell if the guy likes her and would make the (honestly fairly small) effort of reaching out?

A wise woman chooses from among those men who show interest in her. If you are attractive men will show interest.

If a man is not patient and does not wait for a woman's initiative then how can he tell if the girl likes him and would make the (honestly fairly small) effort of reaching out?

A wise man chooses from among those women who show interest in him. If you are attractive women will show interest.

Why should the male version of this take precedence over the female version? BECAUSE THE MAN PAID FOR DINNER.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I've dated beautiful girls since 1987, you know that, right?

I'm blowing leads with girls with low interest. You know that, right?

I'm tired of Betas here promoting texting first.

That's a strawman. I didn't promote texting first. I thought I was clear, if she specifically asks to text when you get home, I say go along with it. It's a courtesy text, not a conversational text.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'm with @EyeBRollin here. Have some nads guys. Expecting women to pursue is passive. I don't like my men passive, so I sort for the men who reach out first. Then I respond and go on dates. This is what many feminine women do, even young ones, even in 2017.

You're taking what I said out of context in order to promote your agenda. Women don't pursue in the first 2-3 dates, but they absolutely do most of the pursuing once their feelings are involved. It's actually healthier for the relationship that way. When she's pursuing, she isn't leaving. That would be a contradiction.

I agree with @bigneil in principle, I just don't think expecting every woman to pursue right away is an efficient way to go with maximizing leads.

 

[BeExcellent]

You're taking what I said out of context in order to promote your agenda. Women don't pursue in the first 2-3 dates, but they absolutely do most of the pursuing once their feelings are involved. It's actually healthier for the relationship that way. When she's pursuing, she isn't leaving. That would be a contradiction.

I agree with @bigneil in principle, I just don't think expecting every woman to pursue right away is an efficient way to go with maximizing leads.

I don't have an agenda per se. Once its an official LTR or marriage then it evens out as far as who contacts who first. In early stage and in non-exclusive dating it's not a good idea for women to chase after men. Women worth having really don't do that. It's intrusive into a man's life. The man I'm dating now texts me as he chooses. I always respond. I quite like him, but he's busy & I'm secure that I'll hear from him when he's available. And I do.

The last man I dated a while initiated 90% of the time throughout the affair. I saw him for 18 months. He liked that I wasn't constantly inserting myself into his day. When he reached out I always responded. If he called I answered. Often plans arose from the ensuing conversation.

These are secure men with accomplished lives. They are busy running businesses, doing various "man stuff". Women are a secondary concern to them. They don't like all the attention an insecure woman requires. They expect some autonomy & self sufficiency in a woman. My father was also this way. I was taught to deeply respect a man's time and that chasing/attention seeking is actually disrespectful and needy.

Insecure women make up 90% of the female population however so that makes sense and is consistent with what y'all see. There are plenty of insecure men running around too honestly so that makes sense too.

 

[BeExcellent]

If a man is not patient and does not wait for a woman's initiative then how can he tell if the girl likes him and would make the (honestly fairly small) effort of reaching out?

A wise man chooses from among those women who show interest in him. If you are attractive women will show interest.

Why should the male version of this take precedence over the female version? BECAUSE THE MAN PAID FOR DINNER.

Ok. Do what works for you. I'm a traditionalist & it works very well for me. Weeds out the sex only men & qualifies the rest.

It's the strategy fathers advocate for their own daughters, even here. Wonder why that is.

The highest value women are always going to have a wide range of choices. So expecting one to chase you actually tells her you aren't interested in her. So she picks from her other good choices who do show interest. She has no need to chase men. She simply is receptive to those with the initiative to approach her.

It's a matter of scale regarding abundance. I don't think you guys really understand this.

Men run around trying to figure out how to be seen as having enough value to get a woman to have sex with them. Women run around navigating all the men who want to have sex with her at any given time.

A man's value is in his initiative; a woman's value is in her restraint. Really think about that.

It's impossible to explain to y'all what that is like. Those of you with daughters can see it.

Men look at all women through a sexual lens. Women look at few men through a sexual lens. Entirely polar opposite perspectives.

 

[bigneil]

Ok. Do what works for you. I'm a traditionalist & it works very well for me. Weeds out the sex only men & qualifies the rest.

It's the strategy fathers advocate for their own daughters, even here. Wonder why that is.

The highest value women are always going to have a wide range of choices. So expecting one to chase you actually tells her you aren't interested in her. So she picks from her other good choices who do show interest. She has no need to chase men. She simply is receptive to those with the initiative to approach her.

It's a matter of scale regarding abundance. I don't think you guys really understand this.

Men run around trying to figure out how to be seen as having enough value to get a woman to have sex with them. Women run around navigating all the men who want to have sex with her at any given time.

A man's value is in his initiative; a woman's value is in her restraint. Really think about that.

It's impossible to explain to y'all what that is like. Those of you with daughters can see it.

Men look at all women through a sexual lens. Women look at few men through a sexual lens. Entirely polar opposite perspectives.

I fed you your own words.

Anyhow, I had the highest value woman (the most beautiful woman I ever saw in my life, who was 20 at the time, and from a rich family) for 9 out of the last 10 months. The fact she was 25 years my junior shows how far ahead of women my age I am. This week I seduced two 45 year old women - they are relatively easy.

Spare me the "If only you were enslaved to the mother of other women" line.

I for one am tired of you pretending there is this new echelon of hotter women who underwrite your theories. Prove it. Show us some photos.

 

[BeExcellent]

I fed you your own words.

Um yes Neil darling, I can read.

The avatar is a photo of me. I'm sure you've checked so you know its real. I have no need to post photos of myself here and I have no need to show off.

The 20 year old is/was a married woman. That means she was cheating with you, which I don't find to display great character and she has since vanished from you. She was never yours. She was using you Neil. I hate to be the azzhole here but you fell in love with a woman that used you. I'm sorry that happened and I know its painful to get over, but that is the real deal.

I'm not pretending about anything at all. Don't be ridiculous. I'm simply relating things from my own life

 

[bigneil]

That means she was cheating with you, which I don't find to display great character and she has since vanished from you. She was never yours. She was using you Neil. I hate to be the azzhole here but you fell in love with a woman that used you. I'm sorry that happened and I know its painful to get over, but that is the real deal.

• Wait, so she cheated on me with husband?? The one she eventually did divorce? Hmm... this sounds like I pissed off a middle aged woman who is trying her hardest to hurt be back.
• Oh, boo hoo. I only got to f*ck a 20 year old supermodel for 9 months. Maybe I should have chose a 45 year old? No.
  
• You do realize the last text in our thread 30 days ago was her asking me out, correct? You know I turned around and walked away and never looked back within 3 hours of learning she had someone else? How many men here have ever ended a relationship that fast with a girl they loved that much?
  
• You know she is 7 (mostly) 20-something girls back in my phone list, correct?
  
• I can only hope that more gorgeous 20 year old models use me for sex.
  
• In the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

 

[bigneil]

What we see is BeExcellent trying to hammer home her point that older men can't really date younger women. She wants to make it seem like I ended up really hurt and it was a terrible overall experience. She desperately wants to undo any great memories I have, again she is angling for the "men should date middle aged women instead" theme.

It's not going to happen.

She missed the point that in my dating the youngest, most beautiful woman who I ever saw, for nearly a year, my life changed in so many ways for the better. First, my last girlfriend (defined as someone you have a long romantic relationship with) healed me physically. I had several issues in my mid 40's. I was starting to get ED (try looking at a naked woman my age and see why that happens). I had performance anxiety, stage fright, I hadn't had sex in 8 months, I was fidgety and I was overweight. I had trauma anxiety from being circumcised. I was picking up a lot of women but they were all blowing me off, many after a kiss. I had never truly made love to a woman, but didn't know it.

From the moment I met this girl I felt like I was enveloped inside a healing sphere. We had great sex on the first date which cured my slump. She cured my performance anxiety over the first 4 months. She cured my stage fright. I am no longer fidgety (she told me on the second date I was - she would always tell me about myself that way). Then after 3 months she showed me what making love was, it's when it actually feels better just to hold a person than it does to have sex with them, but you have sex anyway. This part sounds strange but one night when we had sex on her period I realized she removed stress I had in my body since I was 1 year old, and realized I had been traumatized as a child when I was circumcised (most of us men are and that is the root of our problem with women). She inspired me to hire a physical trainer, to lose 15 pounds (I can now seduce almost every woman I see) and she inspired me to move to a much better apartment, to create the ultimate bachelor pad, to start my own radio station, to be a photographer, to learn about photo editing, to get a better car, and to date younger women. During my time with her I overlapped 3 jobs, billing out 14 months in a 6 month span, and saving the extra 8 months pay (over $100,000, my first nest egg). She also was the first to say "I love you" and for a long time she proved it. But most of all this was a woman who I had a connection with to the point where I literally knew where she was (I ran into her by chance 7 times at 3 venues 20 miles from where I live). I now have a portfolio that would impress Heather Locklear. My parents loved her.

More importantly was how I helped her. I didn't tell her she was beautiful, I proved it. I showed her how a lady should be treated. I took her to the finest resorts in the state. I got her off the wrong path which had her heading to Vegas. I got her to do modeling and her photos scored off the charts, to the point where she was proud enough to show her dad who it turns out was a multi millionaire. Her life had been hell since she was 14 when she met her now ex husband. She went from spoiled trustafarian to medicated to homeless to kicked out of high school to married to a gay man to working in a sleazy strip club. By the time she left me she was sleeping on a 3 bedroom, 3 bath yacht with her daddy and she thanked me for everything I did for her. Her dad loved me. She asked me if she could live with me and I said yes, and then she filed a divorce and things were never the same. I walked away 30 days ago. But I have no regrets.

Guys, the best thing you can do is find a super young, super hot girl and let her use you until you are a new man like I am.

 

[BeExcellent]

You're over it, obviously. It doesn't matter who you date Neil. Do whatever makes you happy.

I agree if you got her out of stripping & back with her family that is good.

 

[devilkingx2]

More importantly I'm raising my girls to be patient and observant. This is the best way for a woman to gauge interest level in a man. If a woman is not patient and does not wait for a man's initiative then how can she tell if the guy likes her and would make the (honestly fairly small) effort of reaching out?

shouldn't you teach them not to play stupid games? not "go ghost on men you like to make them chase and hope this doesn't scare away men with an iota of sense who aren't desperate" lol.

as you can see from this thread, most guys rightfully see a girl who doesn't want to reach out as a girl who isn't interested, teaching your daughters to not show interest is foolish.

I remember one time I talked to a cute girl who showed a lot of interest, but then we didn't see each other for a week and I couldn't get her number at the time (didn't have my phone on me I think), so when I saw her after a week or two, she basically didn't even look in my direction or say hi or anything, so I just assumed she forgot about me and moved on with my life.

fast forward to 3 months later or so I said hi and she was like "finally! where have you been?" she proceeded to explain that she always waits for boys to talk to her first because that's how it's supposed to be or something. I was so confused.

 

[BeExcellent]

shouldn't you teach them not to play stupid games? not "go ghost on men you like to make them chase and hope this doesn't scare away men with an iota of sense who aren't desperate" lol.

as you can see from this thread, most guys rightfully see a girl who doesn't want to reach out as a girl who isn't interested, teaching your daughters to not show interest is foolish.

I remember one time I talked to a cute girl who showed a lot of interest, but then we didn't see each other for a week and I couldn't get her number at the time (didn't have my phone on me I think), so when I saw her after a week or two, she basically didn't even look in my direction or say hi or anything, so I just assumed she forgot about me and moved on with my life.

fast forward to 3 months later or so I said hi and she was like "finally! where have you been?" she proceeded to explain that she always waits for boys to talk to her first because that's how it's supposed to be or something. I was so confused.

Here's what you are missing. I'm not teaching my girls to play games at all. I'm teaching them to be feminine, to be submissive, to await directive, to respond. I'm teaching them to look at actions, because actions display intent.

At the same time I am teaching my son to lead, to take action, to make decisions and to observe response to his actions.

These are different but complimentary roles. Whoever ends up with one of my daughters is going to get a woman who knows what it means to be a woman, is going to know how to care for a man. I just spent most of last weekend with a man and he kept telling me how nice it was to have a beautiful woman looking after him, how masculine he felt around me.

I cannot for the life of me see why this is so tough for some of y'all to understand. Perhaps some of you were raised by feminists, I have no idea. There are threads here complaining about women becoming more masculine...and then at the same time complaining that women don't come chasing after you, initiating contact and assuming the aggressive, leadership, masculine role. Feminine women don't come chasing after you. They DON'T. I'm not the least bit surprised some of y'all complain about there being no feminine women. They are there all right, sometimes right under your nose. But you don't realize it because you don't take the male role. Go read @narcissist and his thread about 100 sets. He is transforming his dating life by going out and being the man and going after women he wants. I'm sure some of the women he meets do chase after him. But others probably don't. I'm betting the ones who chase less and await his initiative more are the ones he finds himself thinking about. The chasers are too easy after a while and become passe. That is human nature.

Your example @devilkingx2 is a perfect one in your quote above. That woman is simply making the assumption that you, the MAN had no interest in her the WOMAN because you took no initiative. It sounds to me like she likes you a bit. She is a feminine girl who waits until she has something to respond to. You should ask her out and then see her on the date. That is leading, which the man is SUPPOSED to be doing.

I know y'all roll your eyes at me in some cases but everything I say is utterly consistent. Just be the man, lead, take the initiative, and get on with it. Men here who whine about women not chasing them and blowing up their phone are just that...whiners. Whiners are not leaders.

In plumbing and electrical work and medicine and other places you have "male" and "female" connectors. The "male" connector always inserts into the "female" connector. Put another way the "female" connector must always receive the "male". Go look at a wall receptacle. It is stationary. It is a female connector that receives the insertion of the male connector, which is free to be plugged in wherever. Sex is the same way. Males insert and females receive.

Men initiate (lead or dominate) and women respond (follow or submit). That is the way of things.

Why some here insist upon going against the natural order of things I have no idea.

I challenge @devilkingx2 to ask that woman out, take the leadership role and see where it goes. You might be in for a nice surprise. No games necessary.

 

[devilkingx2]

I will preface this by saying that I can see your point if and only if you think women should make sure to show as much interest as humanly possible to make up for waiting for the man to do everything, to balance out how low interest waiting for the guy to do all the work is.

I will also say that assuming it's a first interaction the guy doing the initiating is obviously the expected thing (you expect the guy to approach, to ask for the first date, to get the number, to send the first text, etc.) but everything after that, interested girls would show initiative too

Here's what you are missing. I'm not teaching my girls to play games at all. I'm teaching them to be feminine, to be submissive, to await directive, to respond. I'm teaching them to look at actions, because actions display intent.

think of it like this. when girls go after the guys they like, that's a sign of interest, when girls go ghost on a guy, only responding if and when he hits them up that's usually a sign of disinterest. doesn't matter what any individual person means when they do it, if you do it you're intentionally running the risk of being perceived the way that most people who do it are perceived, an interested girl who isn't playing games (barring stupidity/inexperience) isn't going to want to look uninterested

now you can argue that it's more important to be feminine and play coy than it is to actually get the guys you like, but I'd argue that's like when males new to the game overgame girls by getting too into their badass persona instead of just sealing the deal

I cannot for the life of me see why this is so tough for some of y'all to understand. Perhaps some of you were raised by feminists, I have no idea. There are threads here complaining about women becoming more masculine...and then at the same time complaining that women don't come chasing after you, initiating contact and assuming the aggressive, leadership, masculine role. Feminine women don't come chasing after you. They DON'T. I'm not the least bit surprised some of y'all complain about there being no feminine women. They are there all right, sometimes right under your nose. But you don't realize it because you don't take the male role. Go read @narcissist and his thread about 100 sets. He is transforming his dating life by going out and being the man and going after women he wants. I'm sure some of the women he meets do chase after him. But others probably don't. I'm betting the ones who chase less and await his initiative more are the ones he finds himself thinking about. The chasers are too easy after a while and become passe. That is human nature.

I never said I wanted the girl to do all the chasing, I don't think any guy on here except maybe a select few wants to just lounge in their pool while the fangirls climb the fences, I just think that the girl should show interest if she's interested, guys have to learn that exact same lesson (you get friendzoned and passed over if you show no interest), good example, today I didn't text any girl first, two of them hit me up the first chance they got, care to take a guess which two are the most interested?

also there are exactly two types of guys who prefer to have to chase interested women: complete morons and hardcore players. the former because they haven't learned not to waste time, energy and effort chasing women. the latter because they bang girls for sport like they're hunting or playing a video game so the challenge is fun to them, once they conquer the girl they get bored and look for the next challenge.

as for the lack of feminine women, I don't think anyone who complains about that is talking about what you're talking about.

Your example @devilkingx2 is a perfect one in your quote above. That woman is simply making the assumption that you, the MAN had no interest in her the WOMAN because you took no initiative. It sounds to me like she likes you a bit. She is a feminine girl who waits until she has something to respond to. You should ask her out and then see her on the date. That is leading, which the man is SUPPOSED to be doing.

alternative theory: she was obviously lying about actually wanting me to talk to her because she waited for 3 months for me to say hi, nobody has that kind of patience, she didn't give one single fvck if I ever spoke to her again lmao. The reason I didn't initially say hi isn't that I was waiting for her to walk up to me (I was 100% sure she wouldn't do that) it's because she didn't say hi or look at me whenever we passed by each other (it's totally possible she didn't see me from 5-10 feet away, I suppose.), nowadays I've seen literally strangers smile at me and stare because I looked at them and smiled, so it's not really an unreasonable expectation.

I challenge devilkingx2 to ask that woman out, take the leadership role and see where it goes. You might be in for a nice surprise. No games necessary.

that was a long time ago, I barely ever talked to her again(the whole year was practically over by the time that i talked to her so I barely had a chance to say a word because she didn't show any interest, if she liked me I hope she learned a lesson lol), I go back and forth between whether or not she screwed up and lost me or whether or not I was the one who screwed up my chance to get laid, but considering that it has been like 3 years and that memory still sours me on her, it's safe to say that she's the one who screwed up lol.

 

[devilkingx2]

looking back on it, while I disagree with @bigneil 's philosophy on never ever texting a girl first after a date, I can state that my life experiences corroborate his point, I have never once in my life met an interested girl who would rather never hear from me again than text first. and the only girls I've ever seen that would wait for you to text first indefinitely weren't very interested, so it's probably a solid strategy that has a 90+% success rate I'd imagine (I can't imagine he lost more than a single digit amount of girls doing that)

 

[Dr. Reed]

Just getting over oneitis from some woman, I came off too needy, probably drove her away so I went out on a 1st date with a new woman in her 30's last weekend. We really hit it off. I was following the advice of some members on here to not text her to check to see if she got home okay from the date. Anyway, I waited three days to contact her to say hello and to set up another date, she responded with " why didn't you contact me to make sure I got home ok? This was the first time anyone has ever not contacted me." After receiving this message from her, I told her my phone died and couldnt find the charger. She said, "bull****, you didnt have time to contact me for three days, I dont play games" At this point, I told her I had a nice time and lets set up a date this Friday. I have yet to hear back from her. **** test or did I mess up? I was thinking of giving her a call or should I forget about it.

Ignore her inquiry, do not engage a discussion on the topic. I never text/call the next day unless I just had sex with her. Just wait a gfew days, call her, ask her out if she says yes, date her, no throw her number away. It seems she has high interest if she is worried about your call. She could also be a nut case. You will find out in either case.

 

[Dr. Reed]

Update:

She texted me today saying she will consider hanging out on Friday now but she will let me know when the day gets closer. Women! haha I have to tread lightly with this one because she is in law enforcement and I dont want to get shot.

Text back, say sorry you are busy this weekend. If she counteroffers fine. This women does not look like a very good prospect, IMO. How many other women are you dating? How many numbers are you getting? Why are you seeing her on Friday? I never date my best prospects on the weekend.

 

[BeExcellent]

I will preface this by saying that I can see your point if and only if you think women should make sure to show as much interest as humanly possible to make up for waiting for the man to do everything, to balance out how low interest waiting for the guy to do all the work is.

Absolutely and unequivocably. She should show him in no uncertain terms that she likes him, appreciates him, values him, and is pleased to be with him. I will kino, take a man's hand, stand or sit close to him, listen to him and encourage him. I will encourage and respond to his sexual advances but exercise restraint for a while, again, not out of game playing, but out of discretion and weeding out the drive bys. Women who like you will not play games, they will be good company and they are easy for a man to be with. They will exhibit caring toward you.

 

[kenpiffyjr]

I agree with @bigneil in some foundational skills type of way to help you curate the mentality you need to get to...

...but @BeExcellent is right. And this is my opinion how:

When you get to the level of having value as a man who seeks quality out of life and has a true genuine mentality of your goals and objectives come first....if you like spending time with a woman...WHO CARES....text her! The thing is that the men who argue not to text the woman first and actually still operate on a system...recognize that they need that crap so it puts them in the positive on the score card.

For example. A guy who's still not at the peak mindset of a man who really has abundance and really cares about his personal goals and objectives first uses the "she text first" bc it is a positive point to what could potentially be a negative (or in easier SS terms "beta") point later on because he's not operating at the peak mindset of a DJ. It's flat out a security blanket.

But take a all black wearing alpha who leads an interesting life by day, has an abundance of females keying for his time and wants to make time to spend time with a woman at night....his following date text would be in the same category of him taking a piss that day. It doesn't matter if it rules out the discovery of her interests because in his mind it's high interest or she's mentally retarded. Then there's no potential of it balancing a negative point later because there's no negative points like beta neediness, desperation and oneitis hidden fees in any of his interactions. His mind is overtaken by his goals and objectives. His mind is worrying about how he's gonna beat his friend in their next i10 hwy race. His mind is on getting to that tiny tiki bar in the Carribean to have a drink with their cool staff again. This post text is more of a invitation to let her know she is moving in the right direction of being of value enough to let her in to your inner circle. Then move on.

You want the girl, go get her...but if you genuinely feel like you can't operate in this peak abundance/dj mentality....yes....@bigneil system helps you find high IL females who will be patient with your potential future negative learning moments.