mellow_yellow
Don Juan
I've been on and off here for a long time. After discovering this site, I've become much more social, determined, and self-aware. My b*llsh*t tolerance is low through my own experience with women and hearing members' stories here. I also stay true to who I am and don't bend myself just to fit into a group. But I can't figure out why I'm still struggling in getting dates and getting laid. I've reflected on my issues from multiple angles and I can't figure out what's holding me back.
My Background
I'm a 5' 10", 185 lb. guy living in Los Angeles. Recently laid off, but was working as a manager in an online business. Average body so yes I need to work out to get rid of a small gut and achieve muscle definition -- current work in progress.
How I Met Women
Until now, I've been slammed at work, working late until 3 am, so could not meet as many women as I liked. Also, I didn't want to keep talking to women at bars because it got old and they were never interested. When I did approach women, I kept it simple. I said hi, made a comment / asked a question, had a brief chat with some joking, and exited with a number. When using online dating apps for a few months, I only got 1 girl out while the rest of them were just using it to get validation and flake. When meeting women through friends, got nothing through that; I showed my personality, led the group conversation, and was outgoing, but never saw any interest. So I didn't bother pushing to get any numbers because low interest doesn't go anywhere.
The Last 4 Dates & Interactions
What's my self-defeating pattern?
I met Monica through a social event. We were in line waiting to get in. She turns around to me and we begin chatting about whatever. Didn't get the number because I'd probably see her at a future event. I was right though I should've gotten the number the 1st time. At the next event I see her at, we hung out getting food & drinks at the different booths. I got her number and said we should meet up to try new foods & get drinks. It's hard to say if she thought this was a date or hangout. We met up for 2 dates. First date: we talk about each other's future, what we like and dislike about food & alcohol, and I kinoed whenever I could. I cracked some jokes and lightly touched her arm / back. She took the touches, but was completely neutral and didn't react. I didn't get a longer than usual gaze or any touches from her. Second date was similar and I felt weird about even trying for a kiss. Tried to meet up at a music festival so I texted her, but she didn't seem interested in seeing me. As soon as I saw that, I moved on and we haven't talked to each other since.
I met Stacy through friends of a friend. Our entire group (me, my friend, his friends including her) went out to a concert in SF. We all contributed to the group conversation. I was rolling during the concert so at one point, I put my arm around her to sing with the music. At the corner of my eye, I've noticed her other friends smiling at each other like they knew I was interested in Stacy. I didn't see Stacy again until a few months later when 2 friends in the group were getting married. I got a last minute wedding invite so I went for the hell of it. I talked to everyone at my table though I felt like an outsider since everyone else already knew each other. Once the dance floor got started, a few of Stacy's friends tried matching me up with Stacy by bringing her over. I kept it cool and danced a little bit with her and the group. Near the end of the night, Stacy lost interest so I knew I didn't go in to get what I wanted and escalate.
I met up with this Korean girl through a dating app called Coffee Meets Bagel. Met her at a Thai restaurant and the conversation was boring. I tried to ask her a bunch of questions and talk about books, my experiences, and the world, but felt like I was playing 20 questions with her. We move over to a bar across the street and she's buzzed from one drink. We talk a little bit more and the conversation is still boring. I end the date and she comes back to me a minute later saying she forgot $2 to pay the valet. I give her a weird look and just give her the $2. I wonder if I could've just pushed to just get a one night stand if I played it right. She definitely used me for dinner so I learned never to do dinner dates again until after I get laid.
I was introduced to Jean when a friend and his group were eating a restaurant, close to my office. I drop by and say hello. The entire group starts to leave and Jean wants to hang out with me. She's drunk and was interested in me. I was shocked since I haven't met a girl who openly showed interest in me for like 5 years or something. She sat right next to me and tension was building. I touch her lightly and suggest we drink more at my office since I have a bottle of whiskey in my drawer. I pour us some drinks and we talk. Eventually I drive her back since she's along the way for me. I ask to come in for water. I sit down next to her on her couch and rub her back since she seemed groggy. It looked like Jean sobered up because she gave me a "wtf are you doing?" look. No easy lay here so I just say bye and don't see her again.
My Best Guess on What I'm Doing Wrong
I think I'm coming off too friendly and my first impression isn't sexual enough. The issue is when I make my interest known, I may be too direct because I'm not interested in texting back and forth with attention wh*res. My goal is to get the number, set up the date, and then do my best to escalate. I might not be aggressive enough when I escalate. When I kino, I just don't get any signs that she wants more. I don't want to just keep pushing the kino until I just straight up grab her ass.
Also, I get bored really easily and I haven't met my intellectual match. I enjoy talking about different foods, types of alcohol, how the world works, how people work, and all those topics. I'm probably shooting myself in the food and boring the hell out of the girl. If that's the case, then what the hell is there to talk about? I can only ask so much about what she does for fun and why she loves puppies. Then again, I just want to get laid so if I can get pointers on how to get fluff conversation going until I bring the girl back, that will help. I want to develop a deeper conversation with people not just women however I feel like it's not going that deep or going anywhere for that matter.
Next thing is I may be trying too hard. I'm telling jokes and keep the interaction fun and upbeat. In the back of my mind, I feel like I'm pandering to her. I've read on here that the correct approach is to be the cool, slow-moving man who has the woman pander and prove herself to him. I guess this ideal man tells a few c*cky & funny jokes and is no rush? So after drinks, he suggests that she come back with him to his place so he can f*ck her.
Yes, I know. I need to approach way more and get a thicker skin to handle more rejections. At the same time, the return is so low from the flakes that I wonder why I (and other men) even bother swinging the bat. I'd rather develop myself to the top 20% man and have the women come to me. Girls know if they'll f*ck within 5-10 minutes so what's the frame I need to be this man?
Few More Thoughts
I don't know. This is whole dating game is supposed to be straightforward, but it's not. I mean you approach a woman who is showing interest or at least develop the interest if the woman is neutral to you. You get the date, get some drinks, escalate until she's feeling good, take her back, and smash her. The process should be smooth yet I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. I may be lengthening the early part of the process too long...I feel like I'm sitting around logically dissecting everything when it should be so simple -- just get out there and get laid.
I was trying to become a "good guy" rather than the "manly assh*le", but I don't think women respect good guys along with AFCs. I think they value good guys after they get the urge to marry after running through the c*ck carousel. So I think I'd rather be the "manly assh*le" who's so busy with his work and rotations that he doesn't return her calls. Women get off on this sh*t so I don't think it's worth trying to pursue a balance in becoming a good guy. After I figure this out, I probably will never get married and get as much play as I can despite how emotionally damaged women are becoming from riding the carousel. It's not my problem right? It's an issue with feminist society right now and I can't save it.
This dating market, especially in LA, is very difficult, but I'm not using this as an excuse. I'm not interested in being a MGTOW hermit so I gotta do something about this. I need to get rock solid experience now so I can enjoy my 30s. So far, my sex life has stagnated in my 20s so I'm concerned that my 30s won't be any better unless I'm at the top of game and learn all of this correctly right now.
I appreciate your guys' help and input. I should've posted about my hang-ups sooner.
My Background
I'm a 5' 10", 185 lb. guy living in Los Angeles. Recently laid off, but was working as a manager in an online business. Average body so yes I need to work out to get rid of a small gut and achieve muscle definition -- current work in progress.
How I Met Women
Until now, I've been slammed at work, working late until 3 am, so could not meet as many women as I liked. Also, I didn't want to keep talking to women at bars because it got old and they were never interested. When I did approach women, I kept it simple. I said hi, made a comment / asked a question, had a brief chat with some joking, and exited with a number. When using online dating apps for a few months, I only got 1 girl out while the rest of them were just using it to get validation and flake. When meeting women through friends, got nothing through that; I showed my personality, led the group conversation, and was outgoing, but never saw any interest. So I didn't bother pushing to get any numbers because low interest doesn't go anywhere.
The Last 4 Dates & Interactions
What's my self-defeating pattern?
I met Monica through a social event. We were in line waiting to get in. She turns around to me and we begin chatting about whatever. Didn't get the number because I'd probably see her at a future event. I was right though I should've gotten the number the 1st time. At the next event I see her at, we hung out getting food & drinks at the different booths. I got her number and said we should meet up to try new foods & get drinks. It's hard to say if she thought this was a date or hangout. We met up for 2 dates. First date: we talk about each other's future, what we like and dislike about food & alcohol, and I kinoed whenever I could. I cracked some jokes and lightly touched her arm / back. She took the touches, but was completely neutral and didn't react. I didn't get a longer than usual gaze or any touches from her. Second date was similar and I felt weird about even trying for a kiss. Tried to meet up at a music festival so I texted her, but she didn't seem interested in seeing me. As soon as I saw that, I moved on and we haven't talked to each other since.
I met Stacy through friends of a friend. Our entire group (me, my friend, his friends including her) went out to a concert in SF. We all contributed to the group conversation. I was rolling during the concert so at one point, I put my arm around her to sing with the music. At the corner of my eye, I've noticed her other friends smiling at each other like they knew I was interested in Stacy. I didn't see Stacy again until a few months later when 2 friends in the group were getting married. I got a last minute wedding invite so I went for the hell of it. I talked to everyone at my table though I felt like an outsider since everyone else already knew each other. Once the dance floor got started, a few of Stacy's friends tried matching me up with Stacy by bringing her over. I kept it cool and danced a little bit with her and the group. Near the end of the night, Stacy lost interest so I knew I didn't go in to get what I wanted and escalate.
I met up with this Korean girl through a dating app called Coffee Meets Bagel. Met her at a Thai restaurant and the conversation was boring. I tried to ask her a bunch of questions and talk about books, my experiences, and the world, but felt like I was playing 20 questions with her. We move over to a bar across the street and she's buzzed from one drink. We talk a little bit more and the conversation is still boring. I end the date and she comes back to me a minute later saying she forgot $2 to pay the valet. I give her a weird look and just give her the $2. I wonder if I could've just pushed to just get a one night stand if I played it right. She definitely used me for dinner so I learned never to do dinner dates again until after I get laid.
I was introduced to Jean when a friend and his group were eating a restaurant, close to my office. I drop by and say hello. The entire group starts to leave and Jean wants to hang out with me. She's drunk and was interested in me. I was shocked since I haven't met a girl who openly showed interest in me for like 5 years or something. She sat right next to me and tension was building. I touch her lightly and suggest we drink more at my office since I have a bottle of whiskey in my drawer. I pour us some drinks and we talk. Eventually I drive her back since she's along the way for me. I ask to come in for water. I sit down next to her on her couch and rub her back since she seemed groggy. It looked like Jean sobered up because she gave me a "wtf are you doing?" look. No easy lay here so I just say bye and don't see her again.
My Best Guess on What I'm Doing Wrong
I think I'm coming off too friendly and my first impression isn't sexual enough. The issue is when I make my interest known, I may be too direct because I'm not interested in texting back and forth with attention wh*res. My goal is to get the number, set up the date, and then do my best to escalate. I might not be aggressive enough when I escalate. When I kino, I just don't get any signs that she wants more. I don't want to just keep pushing the kino until I just straight up grab her ass.
Also, I get bored really easily and I haven't met my intellectual match. I enjoy talking about different foods, types of alcohol, how the world works, how people work, and all those topics. I'm probably shooting myself in the food and boring the hell out of the girl. If that's the case, then what the hell is there to talk about? I can only ask so much about what she does for fun and why she loves puppies. Then again, I just want to get laid so if I can get pointers on how to get fluff conversation going until I bring the girl back, that will help. I want to develop a deeper conversation with people not just women however I feel like it's not going that deep or going anywhere for that matter.
Next thing is I may be trying too hard. I'm telling jokes and keep the interaction fun and upbeat. In the back of my mind, I feel like I'm pandering to her. I've read on here that the correct approach is to be the cool, slow-moving man who has the woman pander and prove herself to him. I guess this ideal man tells a few c*cky & funny jokes and is no rush? So after drinks, he suggests that she come back with him to his place so he can f*ck her.
Yes, I know. I need to approach way more and get a thicker skin to handle more rejections. At the same time, the return is so low from the flakes that I wonder why I (and other men) even bother swinging the bat. I'd rather develop myself to the top 20% man and have the women come to me. Girls know if they'll f*ck within 5-10 minutes so what's the frame I need to be this man?
Few More Thoughts
I don't know. This is whole dating game is supposed to be straightforward, but it's not. I mean you approach a woman who is showing interest or at least develop the interest if the woman is neutral to you. You get the date, get some drinks, escalate until she's feeling good, take her back, and smash her. The process should be smooth yet I feel like I'm not getting anywhere. I may be lengthening the early part of the process too long...I feel like I'm sitting around logically dissecting everything when it should be so simple -- just get out there and get laid.
I was trying to become a "good guy" rather than the "manly assh*le", but I don't think women respect good guys along with AFCs. I think they value good guys after they get the urge to marry after running through the c*ck carousel. So I think I'd rather be the "manly assh*le" who's so busy with his work and rotations that he doesn't return her calls. Women get off on this sh*t so I don't think it's worth trying to pursue a balance in becoming a good guy. After I figure this out, I probably will never get married and get as much play as I can despite how emotionally damaged women are becoming from riding the carousel. It's not my problem right? It's an issue with feminist society right now and I can't save it.
This dating market, especially in LA, is very difficult, but I'm not using this as an excuse. I'm not interested in being a MGTOW hermit so I gotta do something about this. I need to get rock solid experience now so I can enjoy my 30s. So far, my sex life has stagnated in my 20s so I'm concerned that my 30s won't be any better unless I'm at the top of game and learn all of this correctly right now.
I appreciate your guys' help and input. I should've posted about my hang-ups sooner.
Last edited:
