Pushing for sex on first date low value?

BeTheChange

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In the past I've had a pretty poor return rate for chicks I've screwed on the first date.

It could be that they're just slvts looking to sample different men. Easy come easy go.

It could be they're more likely to get buyers remorse or assume the guy will only see them as someone to fvck and not to date (heard this one from women) and so they eject before they can catch feelings.

It could be they're just not that into you.

Either way I'm strongly considering whether pushing for sex on the first date is the best long term strategy for obtaining solid plates.

Have a date with a 22 year old blonde bombshell that on paper could make a decent plate. Unsure on how to proceed.

Of late I've found a lot of women I chat to are quite dismissive. I think a lot of women assume I'm a player. I'm pretty muscular, wear my hair in short dreads, and have a hoop earing (like a pirate) so maybe im giving off that vibe.
 
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Milano

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I have been having the same ideas and it can drive you crazy thinking about stuff that has no actual answer. On my last dates I have been trying to be more aggressive and get them home as quick as possible, not giving off any friend-vibes. I think at least for me I need to give girls more space for them to feel comfortable and not being afraid of either me being a player or a desperate low value guy.

Some kissing on the first couple of dates and taking it easy with the fuking is perhaps safe, no? Some girls ACTUALLY dont fuk on the first date, UNLESS they are drunk and out clubbing, which is so typical female logic. Its ok to suk a random guys dik in a club bathroom but not fuk a legit guy being sober on a first date-kind a thing
 

cola

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Don't get offended when I ask this..

Are you good in bed?
Really think about it.. When you have sex do they finish every time?

If a chick sleeps with me, she usually wants it again.
 

devilkingx2

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if you sleep with a girl on the first date while she's sober, if she doesn't return it was likely she's just a slvt who goes through men

if she was drunk and doesn't return, it was likely buyer's remorse through no fault of your own (unless you intentionally got her drunk to sleep with her easier)

all this is assuming she doesn't have some crazy backwards logic going on in her head (like sleeping with people on the first date and then not dating men who sleep with her on the first date lmao), and that you were good in bed, that she was single, that her ex didn't call her after the date, etc. etc.

Mystery had a 7 hour rule for situations like this http://www.pualingo.com/2009/05/30/7-hour-rule/
 

BeTheChange

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Don't get offended when I ask this..

Are you good in bed?
Really think about it.. When you have sex do they finish every time?

If a chick sleeps with me, she usually wants it again.
I'm good. No problem with ex gf or girls that took things more slowly. Had a girl fly half way round the world to be with me just to get the D. Yet in the past 5 years I can only think of one girl I slept with on the first date who ended up being a dependable plate.
 

fastlife

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I ran into the same wall for a couple months (and still do from time to time).

Two possible factors:
  • You're actually 'not enough of a player.' Somehow (probably based on your career success) you're sending conflicting signals. Wait, is @BeTheChange the guy I can have quick, hot, exciting, consequence-free sex with? Or is he the guy I need to lock down longterm? If he's a provider he'll be turned off that I'm too much of a slvt. But he's turning me on like a lover. Fvck, I slept with him--fvck, fvck, fvck. And she goes cold.
  • You are too much of a player. You're not conveying enough of your personality for her to be able to rationalize not feeling like a slvt. You're not qualifying her hard enough to feel like she's more than a warm hole to her.
Sound a little confusing & paradoxical? It totally is. But waiting for sex wasn't the solution for me lol (still lost the girls, since they were like WTF I thought this was the hot exciting guy who could make things happen for me). Here's what (my work in progress) adjustments look like:
  • Being super open about my views on sex, nonmonogamy, telling stories about other girls I've seen or am seeing. This sends a super clear signal of what I'm about and can expect from me. Girls can get down with any frame--but they have to have a solid sense of what that frame looks like going in (congruence).
  • Qualifying her heavily. Statements like, 'I love how you [whatever]. Most girls [opposite of qualification]. But I do this honestly--if a girl doesn't really have much to offer or I have no intention of keeping her around longterm I emphasize attraction and mention disqualifiers to let her know I can't stick around.
  • Disqualifying yourself as a provider. I tell girls I work at fastfood or have a gambling problem--this is very tongue-in-cheek. It's obvious (usually) that I'm not those things, but it sets the frame. I make fun of the guys who buy them drinks or slide in their DMs or fall madly in love with them. Again, I'm setting expectations.
  • Getting them to invest. My current pull is inviting girls over to help me make my bed. But you can also just buy a painting and tell her you're working on redecorating your apartment but you're not sure about it and need the advice of a fashionable girl. Talk about things you might not be good at but that she seems like she might be. This gives her the chance to display her value--if she feels like she could possibly be a valuable asset to your life, then it will make up any value differentials where she feels like you're just going to sleep with her and then treat her like a dirty towel or whatever.
  • Be super persistent. If you know you have tons of value, if girls generally like you, etc., then chances are she sees you as high value--and if she's flakey--she probably sees you as too high value--and is afraid that you'll just pump and dump her and make her feel even lower value. So if I meet a girl I like and she doesn't respond or is super distant--cool--I'll send her a value-offering text in a week or two. And then another one a week or two after that. And then another a week or two after that. This displays a super high degree of confidence, which is attractive. It shows my frame is nonreactive to hers (high value). And it shows that I'm going to be the same @fastlife whether she gets on board or not--and that even though we both know I'm seeing other girls, she left enough of an impression on me that I still welcome her into my life. Zero expectation. Zero butthurt. What generally happens is she'll start chasing at some point and then I'll push for a meetup. She'll probably flake. And I'll text her again in a week or two.
I met a beautiful girl (by @fastlife standards and not what you see thrown around SS lol) about a month ago. It was at a super unconventional place--and I only had about 15 minutes. I could tell she really liked me but was also super nervous and probably didn't have much experience with guys like me; she's also 18, so I knew going in that she'd be flakey. So I pushed for a meetup that week; she ghosted me. I teased her the next day; a little back & forth, she ghosted. Texted her a week later, she ignored it. Texted her a week after that--she starts chasing super hard. Reluctant to meet up. Texted her a week after that--nothing. Invited her over this week to help me make my bed lol--she was super responsive, she starts pushing for a meetup, she starts investing, she starts bringing up obstacles on her end that I help her solve (i.e. that I'm not a kidnapper or whatever). As of right now, she's coming over tonight. I'm not counting on it, but I think there's about a 75% chance she comes through. All upside, no downside.

Now, is it possible she's been seeing other guys this past month? I mean, probably--but it's nothing personal, since I know she doesn't really know me yet. Is it possible she flakes out? Yeah. But I'm seeing what kind of texts work & what don't for future situations. I'm building my tool-set. In fact, I had a very similar experience with a very similar girl last summer (except she was out of town for a month after I got her number)--and I got too reactive when she flaked and teased her a little too hard when she had already decided to submit. But I know I'm not pathetic; I know I'm not creepy; I know I'm good in bed; I know girls like me; I know I'm probably the best guy she'll meet in the next 5 years; I know she'll love me once she gets to know me; I know I'll meet other comparable girls in the future.

I know all this, so what does it matter if I chase a little bit on the front end or she ends up thing l'm a loser with no options? A text costs me very little; far less costly than the time investment it'd take on my end to meet another girl on her level (well, actually I've met a couple since I met her and closed with one and have another that is circling--but they don't grow on trees lol).

A good article on the subject: http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/10/24/being-too-much-player/
 
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ChristopherColumbus

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In the past I've had a pretty poor return rate for chicks I've screwed on the first date.

It could be that they're just slvts looking to sample different men. Easy come easy go.

It could be they're more likely to get buyers remorse or assume the guy will only see them as someone to fvck and not to date (heard this one from women) and so they eject before they can catch feelings.

It could be they're just not that into you.

Either way I'm strongly considering whether pushing for sex on the first date is the best long term strategy for obtaining solid plates.

Have a date with a 22 year old blonde bombshell that on paper could make a decent plate. Unsure on how to proceed.

Of late I've found a lot of women I chat to are quite dismissive. I think a lot of women assume I'm a player. I'm pretty muscular, wear my hair in short dreads, and have a hoop earing (like a pirate) so maybe im giving off that vibe.
Don't underestimate the role shame plays in people's minds... even in this day and age.
 

Bible_Belt

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I'm never pushy about sex. I like women who are into me enough so that I don't have to be pushy. Maybe I miss a few lays that way, but it screens out the women who are the least interested.
 

BeTheChange

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I'm never pushy about sex. I like women who are into me enough so that I don't have to be pushy. Maybe I miss a few lays that way, but it screens out the women who are the least interested.
Pushing is not the right word.

More like allowing. Or to put it better creating the right set of circumstances to facilitate quick sex. These chicks want to fvck me on the first date. That's the problem.
 

bigneil

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You should never push for it, but it should happen as soon as possible.

On my first date with my last girl, once we were alone on the couch I said "I have some bad news..." and she said "What's that?", sitting on my lap with her skirt hiking up just enough that I could see her panties. I said "I think we're going to have sex tonight... now listen, I don't like this anymore than you do... but... let's just get it over with..."

She said "Okay!!"
 

Tell her a little about yourself, but not too much. Maintain some mystery. Give her something to think about and wonder about when she's at home.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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