Is it cheating if your wife cuts you off?

[Plums]

Yeah but the females have to have the "feels" to want it most if the time. And a controller won't even care. She gets off on denying it.

No she doesn't. A woman can have sex without really feeling like it. If she gets off on making her partner miserable then find the door and get someone who cares.

 

[highSpeed]

No she doesn't. A woman can have sex without really feeling like it. If she gets off on making her partner miserable then find the door and get someone who cares.

It's never that simple. Once you add in kids and alimoney (yes I meant to spell it that way, alimoney is better than alimony), if you make good money, you're going to get screwed. It's easy to say "Your mental health is more important than money" but we all know it's not that simple. Whoever initiates the divorce, the man is usually getting screwed because most of the time, he makes more money. If you make good money, say 200+, which I do, you're going to get really screwed over. My career took off through the roof shortly after I got married, so I didn't have a prenup. Extremely stupid on my part I know but hey, we all make mistakes.

All of this crap about men leading, it's crap. It's smoke and mirrors. You think you're leading someone who knows that can submarine you anytime they want? Think again. Women are not some dog you train, they are conniving. Yes, they may be more emotional than us and that clouds their thinking at times but they are usually more street smart than most guys. You think you're getting into a loving relationship and they using you for resources.

In many cases, the saying of cheaper to keeper is the best way overall. You think it matters who initiates the divorce? No, they're going to see you as the enemy and try to take all they can.I would almost never subscribe to saying get some on the side and keep it on the down low but in this case, it seems very unfair to the person not getting any to not at least consider it.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

No she doesn't. A woman can have sex without really feeling like it. If she gets off on making her partner miserable then find the door and get someone who cares.

We know a "good" wife or gf may do it when they don't necessarily "feel" like it and quickly get turned on after it starts up. A selfish controlling one never would do it "when" she doesn't "feel" like it.

 

[devilkingx2]

if your woman doesn't feel like having sex once in a while, that's okay, as long as it's okay if you don't feel like getting her a birthday present or don't feel like remembering the anniversary or don't feel like coming home one night and instead go party with the boys without telling her, or don't feel like spending time with her so you ignore her to watch netflix, etc.

if she's fair about it then it's fine.

if she's not having sex with you for any more than 2-3 days at a time, or more frequently than once in a while, immediately divorce her unless she can give you a really good reason why you're not having sex, otherwise she's not really into you anymore and probably just doesn't want to lose access to your house and car.

 

[Plums]

It's never that simple. Once you add in kids and alimoney (yes I meant to spell it that way, alimoney is better than alimony), if you make good money, you're going to get screwed. It's easy to say "Your mental health is more important than money" but we all know it's not that simple. Whoever initiates the divorce, the man is usually getting screwed because most of the time, he makes more money. If you make good money, say 200+, which I do, you're going to get really screwed over. My career took off through the roof shortly after I got married, so I didn't have a prenup. Extremely stupid on my part I know but hey, we all make mistakes.

All of this crap about men leading, it's crap. It's smoke and mirrors. You think you're leading someone who knows that can submarine you anytime they want? Think again. Women are not some dog you train, they are conniving. Yes, they may be more emotional than us and that clouds their thinking at times but they are usually more street smart than most guys. You think you're getting into a loving relationship and they using you for resources.

In many cases, the saying of cheaper to keeper is the best way overall. You think it matters who initiates the divorce? No, they're going to see you as the enemy and try to take all they can.I would almost never subscribe to saying get some on the side and keep it on the down low but in this case, it seems very unfair to the person not getting any to not at least consider it.

Some people are like that. Many are not. In my case for instance I have always had more money than any man I have dated. It isn't all about money. And it is often about choice. Men will choose a trophy wife if they have money so they miss out on decent girls in favour of fake boobs and a phoney smile. Its their choice and mistake. Even pretty gets boring if there is no love. If you flash your cash about to impress you are going to get sharks. Some women know they are attractive and can manipulate men easily. Probably it is time that men start to think with their brain and not their d*ick.

If you make babies you have to pay for them, the quality of their life is your choice. How well do you want them brought up. Do you want them to struggle while you have the good life. Do you want them to have a mother at home who cares for them, or a mother who has to work and struggle to give them time.

 

[Plums]

We know a "good" wife or gf may do it when they don't necessarily "feel" like it and quickly get turned on after it starts up. A selfish controlling one never would do it "when" she doesn't "feel" like it.

So you have a choice there.

 

[highSpeed]

Some people are like that. Many are not. In my case for instance I have always had more money than any man I have dated. It isn't all about money. And it is often about choice. Men will choose a trophy wife if they have money so they miss out on decent girls in favour of fake boobs and a phoney smile. Its their choice and mistake. Even pretty gets boring if there is no love. If you flash your cash about to impress you are going to get sharks. Some women know they are attractive and can manipulate men easily. Probably it is time that men start to think with their brain and not their d*ick.

If you make babies you have to pay for them, the quality of their life is your choice. How well do you want them brought up. Do you want them to struggle while you have the good life. Do you want them to have a mother at home who cares for them, or a mother who has to work and struggle to give them time.

So what exactly then is the woman responsible for then? So the man, the usual provider, is financially and legally responsible for other people. Now this person presents themselves as one particular type of person and then turns out to be someone else after you marry. So you're still responsible for them? Gee, that kind of hands a greater level of power to the female side of the relationship. It's not about simply thinking with your d*ck, it's about thinking you are getting one thing and ending up with another.

 

[Plums]

So what exactly then is the woman responsible for then? So the man, the usual provider, is financially and legally responsible for other people. Now this person presents themselves as one particular type of person and then turns out to be someone else after you marry. So you're still responsible for them? Gee, that kind of hands a greater level of power to the female side of the relationship. It's not about simply thinking with your d*ck, it's about thinking you are getting one thing and ending up with another.

I am not saying you should pay for her, but if you have children you should pay for their upkeep. They didn't ask to be born. That is your decision. The woman by nature will be responsible for protecting and nurturing your children. By nature the man is supposed to provide. That is the parent contract.
A man will think with his d*ick when he fools himself into believing that because she is a trophy that will be enough. If you go into a marriage and the person isn't the same person after the marriage as they were before then the man hasn't exactly been that careful in choosing his wife has he? Can't you tell when people are fake? Is it that you are so wrapped up in yourself that it makes you blind.
You can't blame the fire for burning you when you choose to jump in to it.
Get real. Go for quality rather than quantity of looks (most fake women have fake looks).
Its always worth asking your family and friends what they think of a partner as they can usually see what d*ick brains can't.

 

[Huffman]

You still don't get it.
1. You can't rationalize sex and desire. You can't have a conversation about it and make it better.
2. A guy can't sit down and say, "we don't have enough sex, we need to have more". How well does that go over? If a man brings that up, the female possesses all power in that situation and all the man can do is walk away. (I bet you're gonna say, well if the marriage is worth it, you'd make it work). A good relationship shouldn't have all this excess communication and problems.
3. If you're having that talk anyways it's leading to maintenance sex and a dead bedroom.
4. Does it say anywhere in your marriage contract that you're both privy to sex x amount of times a month? Marriage is a financial contract through and through. Men are never guaranteed sex even if we talk about it, or try and escalate to it.

All good points, but I believe it's possible to curb bad behaviour in its infancy. Let's go back and say the situation isn't totally f*cked up yet, you still love each other and enjoy the relationship, but she brushes you off a couple of times which irritates you. You gotta act on it fast and communicate that you're aggravated by this behaviour. OK, one shouldn't whine in the way you described, but what the hell. As long as you hold any power in the relationship, you will be able to make her acknowledge your needs, and she will want to find a solution together.

So, sure, "desire is either there or not". But even if she has no desire (hopefully temporarily), she should be interested to find a solution together. If instead she displays manipulative behaviour then it's not up to the man to somehow make her more horny, but to tell her off for it.

 

[CMNILS87]

All good points, but I believe it's possible to curb bad behaviour in its infancy. Let's go back and say the situation isn't totally f*cked up yet, you still love each other and enjoy the relationship, but she brushes you off a couple of times which irritates you. You gotta act on it fast and communicate that you're aggravated by this behaviour. OK, one shouldn't whine in the way you described, but what the hell. As long as you hold any power in the relationship, you will be able to make her acknowledge your needs, and she will want to find a solution together.

So, sure, "desire is either there or not". But even if she has no desire (hopefully temporarily), she should be interested to find a solution together. If instead she displays manipulative behaviour then it's not up to the man to somehow make her more horny, but to tell her off for it.

The divorce rate is something like 50% in the first 10 years. So the fact that people change over time is true regardless of fakeness or not. I find it very hard that any woman that has a marriage in a downward spiral would want to fight and fight for it, when they have nothing to lose and everything to gain from a divorce.. I've seen two aunts divorce due to unhappiness and everyone just went with it and said she should get out. No one even said anything about marriage counseling. The vows at a wedding are moot point and just words due to being wrapped up in emotions. Complacency on both ends kills the marriage. Not having to chase her anymore destroys that spark.

The point of correcting behavior is a bit interesting too, because if she's fallen out of love or just doesn't enjoy bring around you anymore, a woman will just balk at you trying to correct her. It's just fuel on the fire.

 

[Plums]

The divorce rate is something like 50% in the first 10 years. So the fact that people change over time is true regardless of fakeness or not. I find it very hard that any woman that has a marriage in a downward spiral would want to fight and fight for it, when they have nothing to lose and everything to gain from a divorce.. I've seen two aunts divorce due to unhappiness and everyone just went with it and said she should get out. No one even said anything about marriage counseling. The vows at a wedding are moot point and just words due to being wrapped up in emotions. Complacency on both ends kills the marriage. Not having to chase her anymore destroys that spark.

The point of correcting behavior is a bit interesting too, because if she's fallen out of love or just doesn't enjoy bring around you anymore, a woman will just balk at you trying to correct her. It's just fuel on the fire.

I don't want it to seem like I an disagreeing with everything you say, I don't in regards of many things. But I don't think people change over time, I think you stay the same type of person all your life.. Yes you have more experience as you get older and you learn but you will still laugh and cry at the same things, you will still have your characteristics. I think what happens is the fake side of them falls away or they just can't keep up the pretence anymore.
May be its a symptom of living in a consumer world that people spin a tale about themselves in order to sell themselves into a relationship.
People don't give themselves a chance to learn about another person before they take the plunge. They buy into the muscles, good job and fancy car. Or the fake boobs and blonde locks and how proud they will feel with the trophy on their arm.
You have to fall in love with the invisible but honest person. Not the wrappings.

 

[ThisNThat]

I don't want it to seem like I an disagreeing with everything you say, I don't in regards of many things. But I don't think people change over time, I think you stay the same type of person all your life.. Yes you have more experience as you get older and you learn but you will still laugh and cry at the same things, you will still have your characteristics. I think what happens is the fake side of them falls away or they just can't keep up the pretence anymore.
May be its a symptom of living in a consumer world that people spin a tale about themselves in order to sell themselves into a relationship.
People don't give themselves a chance to learn about another person before they take the plunge. They buy into the muscles, good job and fancy car. Or the fake boobs and blonde locks and how proud they will feel with the trophy on their arm.
You have to fall in love with the invisible but honest person. Not the wrappings.

Funny you bring this up. An old high schoolmate who is doing quite well for herself in NYC had an 11 year marriage. She wrote up a very succinct article regarding that she knows she'll NEVER Marry again. one of the parts on her list is the fact people in fact DO change over time.

She said she and her ex-husband were NOT the same people when they divorced (at 30) than she was the same person at 20 years old. It was as if they were two completely different people as their beliefs and other notions had changed in the course of a decade.

People change. The notion of permanence is romantic—that you feel so deeply and passionately about a person that you think marrying is the best way of expressing this. However, my life experience has confirmed a different narrative that is probably much closer to the truth: I have fallen in love with the perfect person for me in the perfect moment several times over. The two of us offered something important and unique that we both needed and found in one another, but we change, we evolve and we learn more about who we are. It’s almost silly to think that we can be everything to each other forever.

 

[Desdinova]

My thoughts on this are always controversial. If a woman isn't fulfilling her duty as a wife by withdrawing attention toward her husband, then he has good reason to find another woman who fills the void his wife has left.

Yes, I'm all for "cheating" if there's good reason to do so. If the wife is fulfilling her role and giving the man plenty of attention and he still cheats, then he's a greedy assh0le who shouldn't have taken any woman for a wife.

 

[ThisNThat]

You have to fall in love with the invisible but honest person. Not the wrappings.

This stands out big time and probably why I'm more friend zoned than anything. lol. With all these posts on how to "get and KEEP a woman's interest", like to throw that all in the garbage.

 

[ubercat]

The thing that really weirds me out about women is not them denying sex. It's that they will keep having sex with you when the relationship is on the rocks. I'd love to hear you guys thoughts on that one.

 

[Plums]

Funny you bring this up. An old high schoolmate who is doing quite well for herself in NYC had an 11 year marriage. She wrote up a very succinct article regarding that she knows she'll NEVER Marry again. one of the parts on her list is the fact people in fact DO change over time.

She said she and her ex-husband were NOT the same people when they divorced (at 30) than she was the same person at 20 years old. It was as if they were two completely different people as their beliefs and other notions had changed in the course of a decade.

People change. The notion of permanence is romantic—that you feel so deeply and passionately about a person that you think marrying is the best way of expressing this. However, my life experience has confirmed a different narrative that is probably much closer to the truth: I have fallen in love with the perfect person for me in the perfect moment several times over. The two of us offered something important and unique that we both needed and found in one another, but we change, we evolve and we learn more about who we are. It’s almost silly to think that we can be everything to each other forever.

She sounds like a person who didn't know herself too well at all. Her reasoning is an excuse because she made a mistake with her choice and is unable to face up to it.
Yes your opinions and views on life can change. Your behaviour can change. But your opinions, education and views are not your personality. Your personality does not change unless you have serious mental health problems. If you were prone to jealousy as a child, you still will be when you are elderly. If you were happy and smiley and laughed easy as a baby, you will be like that all your life.
If you are selfish at heart, you may be able to learn to control it, but you will never get rid of it from your personality. We are all unique and are born with good parts and bad parts, just like any other part of us. A short man cannot change and become a tall man. You are what you are. Our life lessons help us to deal with it.

 

[highSpeed]

Some people are like that. Many are not. In my case for instance I have always had more money than any man I have dated. It isn't all about money. And it is often about choice. Men will choose a trophy wife if they have money so they miss out on decent girls in favour of fake boobs and a phoney smile. Its their choice and mistake. Even pretty gets boring if there is no love. If you flash your cash about to impress you are going to get sharks. Some women know they are attractive and can manipulate men easily. Probably it is time that men start to think with their brain and not their d*ick.

If you make babies you have to pay for them, the quality of their life is your choice. How well do you want them brought up. Do you want them to struggle while you have the good life. Do you want them to have a mother at home who cares for them, or a mother who has to work and struggle to give them time.

You're not understanding the point. The point is many women get lazy after the marriage and after the kids. I didn't marry for boobs, looks or whatever else you are insinuating. Sex is important but certainly not the only factor when determining whether or not you want to marry someone. She could put out 10 times a day and if she is a royal b*tch, I don't want her. She could look like the s#xiest woman in the world, but if she doesn't put out and/or is a royal b*tch, doesn't matter what she looks like. She could have the greatest personality in the world and do everything else but have s*x and I still wouldn't want her. Same goes for the guy too.

This isn't a rant against women but they have essentially been empowered by society to screw over the guy. Look, get over it, she's going to get a good bit of money if she divorces, even if you have a solid prenup. H*ll, the judge can throw out your prenup if they think it is unfair. Remember, family court and divorce law don't have the same level of rights that you do in a civil or criminal trial. Many of the civil rights afforded defendants in those areas don't apply in family court.

Look, kids need a tremendous amount of resources and I realize that their needs are going to take priority at times and completely support and accept that. But many women simply don't pay attention to their husbands after marriage and kids. They assume that since you have invested to them to that degree that there is an excellent chance you're going to stick it out. They know that because they know that you know that they will be rewarded should they choose to leave while the man will be punished. Kind of encourage women to behave badly doesn't it? Imagine if you still got half of your paycheck, couldn't be fired and didn't have to show up for work. How often do you think most people would go to work?

Lastly, it's nice to know that someone like yourself has never been fooled or regretted a decision you couldn't get out of once you accepted it. It's nice to know that you are so much smarter than the rest of us that you could never be taken advantage of. Look, get over yourself, you can be fooled too it simply hasn't happened to you yet. I only wish I could be there when it does happen so I could tell you, "Gee, you should have been more aware, too bad for you."

 

[ThisNThat]

She sounds like a person who didn't know herself too well at all. Her reasoning is an excuse because she made a mistake with her choice and is unable to face up to it.
Yes your opinions and views on life can change. Your behaviour can change. But your opinions, education and views are not your personality. Your personality does not change unless you have serious mental health problems. If you were prone to jealousy as a child, you still will be when you are elderly. If you were happy and smiley and laughed easy as a baby, you will be like that all your life.
If you are selfish at heart, you may be able to learn to control it, but you will never get rid of it from your personality. We are all unique and are born with good parts and bad parts, just like any other part of us. A short man cannot change and become a tall man. You are what you are. Our life lessons help us to deal with it.

Good points. She has mentioned that she got pregnant in high school, got married at 19 and thinks that she didn't become a member of the high school student body government for that reason...but figures it was for the best because that situation has made her who she is now...and she's become quite successful.

To me that list is just a long-form rationalization of her how she devalues marriage. The irony in all this is that some of her family members are pretty conservative Christians and it seems her experience had turned her quite liberal.

Take it from her article where she considers having gotten pregnant as a teenager was the BEST thing that ever happened to her. That she had learned, through a friends mother, that her high school life was "ruined".

I would have to agree with the mother. She was expected, per her other article, that ties nicely into her anti-marriage ideals, to become home coming queen and part of the governing system in the school...that is, BEFORE she was pregnant. (Some would use the berating "knocked up" in this case). Here's another excerpt:

I was a pregnant teenager, yes, but I was still struck by the perverse joy this mother clearly took in seeing what she perceived as the social demise of a popular, straight-A, Christian student who was a cheerleader.

In some ways, my friend’s mother wasn’t so far off. I ran for vice president of the student government and lost. (Silly me—my mother always told me to shoot for the top. What was I thinking?) And then I failed to land a spot on the homecoming court (my older sister had been crowned queen, and everyone had expected me to follow in her footsteps—at least before I got pregnant.). So yes, my high school life had, indeed, been ruined.

Personally I think even though SOME benefit came from all of this, on the other hand, there looks to be admissible, irreparable damage to her and has become part of the problem and why women can so easily pack up their things, while the husband comes home with a shocked expression on her face as he sees all her bags packed and ready to leave him.

It's a form of rebellion, I think, in the guise of female empowerment...and this attitude has been damaging to marriages all over. Women as you know are always initiating most of the divorces. So her article is an attempt, I think, to sugar coat her inability to keep a relationship, marriage even, from continuing on.

I mean, it wasn't like he cheated on her, substance abuse, physical abuse, etc...you know, the things that actually DO justify a marriages demise...but the good ol' platitude of "We just grew apart". That...doesn't hold water for me, never did when I was young...and never has now.

So basically that article is a long form version on justifying "growing apart".

So this is such an example of the rationale women have...calling it "empowerment" when it's really just shirking working on your marriage and find it so easy to dispose of your partner.

She has no shame and she should be ashamed and she admitted she was...at that time. But now she writes an article on how it was "the best thing that's happened"? (Teenage-aged pregnancy)

Now, I'm not saying she is a bad person or anything, I mean nobody is perfect, but to THINK you came out ahead via a teen pregnancy, then follow it up with an article about why marriage is something you don't value (at least that's how I interpreted the article)...I say..shame on her for that.

She's an example of a lot of women who don't value marriage or relationships if you walk out for that reason. I mean, if she's not willing to change along with whatever changes that are going on as they get older...then that tells me she doesn't value marriage or undervalues it.

 

[Plums]

I agree with what you say.
Its a shame that women like her get the opportunity to air their misguided views and a woman who values marriage never gets the chance because society will look down on a woman who puts her family first.
I suppose at least she had her baby and didn't murder it. It would have served society better if she had been honest and explained how her unplanned accidental pregnancy, her mistake, did actually negatively affect her life because other young women may learn from this. Not that I am saying a baby is a mistake, they are all to be cherished, but as this fraud stumbles through life, blind to her own faults. She is hurting people including her child who now is separated from the man she considered her father.
Man and woman who love each other honestly and respect each other's sexuality, and children born to that unity in marriage is the strength society should be built on.

 

[Plums]

You're not understanding the point. The point is many women get lazy after the marriage and after the kids. I didn't marry for boobs, looks or whatever else you are insinuating. Sex is important but certainly not the only factor when determining whether or not you want to marry someone. She could put out 10 times a day and if she is a royal b*tch, I don't want her. She could look like the s#xiest woman in the world, but if she doesn't put out and/or is a royal b*tch, doesn't matter what she looks like. She could have the greatest personality in the world and do everything else but have s*x and I still wouldn't want her. Same goes for the guy too.

This isn't a rant against women but they have essentially been empowered by society to screw over the guy. Look, get over it, she's going to get a good bit of money if she divorces, even if you have a solid prenup. H*ll, the judge can throw out your prenup if they think it is unfair. Remember, family court and divorce law don't have the same level of rights that you do in a civil or criminal trial. Many of the civil rights afforded defendants in those areas don't apply in family court.

Look, kids need a tremendous amount of resources and I realize that their needs are going to take priority at times and completely support and accept that. But many women simply don't pay attention to their husbands after marriage and kids. They assume that since you have invested to them to that degree that there is an excellent chance you're going to stick it out. They know that because they know that you know that they will be rewarded should they choose to leave while the man will be punished. Kind of encourage women to behave badly doesn't it? Imagine if you still got half of your paycheck, couldn't be fired and didn't have to show up for work. How often do you think most people would go to work?

Lastly, it's nice to know that someone like yourself has never been fooled or regretted a decision you couldn't get out of once you accepted it. It's nice to know that you are so much smarter than the rest of us that you could never be taken advantage of. Look, get over yourself, you can be fooled too it simply hasn't happened to you yet. I only wish I could be there when it does happen so I could tell you, "Gee, you should have been more aware, too bad for you."

I am not disagreeing that men come out worse than women financially quite often in divorce. I have male friends that have been screwed by women. Lived in wonderful homes and ended up in bedsits because the courts will give the home to the wife if she has children. My own brother, veteran of four marriages is being treated the same way by his current wife who has her eyes on the house and cash. All his money is from his business, she gave up work when she married him. No kids together. She still lays claim to his money and its disgusting.
All I am saying is that not all women are like that. I can tell you that I could have told my brother that his current and previous wife were after his money. It was obvious they are glamour girls. However his love life is his own matter and I am wise enough to know he would not have taken any notice of me.
Luckily my brother has me to protect his business so when they get divorced. She will walk away with what she came in with and no more. You see I am clever.
And I have regretted decisions I have made, of course I have. But as I say I am clever so don't repeat my mistakes.
It takes two people to make a good relationship. A woman can't make a good relationship on her own and neither can a man. You are defensive so I obviously hit a raw nerve. I didn't do so to get at you but just to give you another way of looking at things that might make you explore your own views.
What I am saying to you is that you should take care when choosing a partner, the more that person suits you the more love you will invest in them. The more love you invest the greater the rewards will be and the kinder you will be to each other.