It is time to put the Alpha/Beta male mindset to rest

[Trainwreck]

This mindset is a black or white answer to a gray matter scenario. The alpha man character was fabricated by pua gurus to get yall to buy their books. In addition, this alpha man character can simply be proven false by walking outside. There's plenty of what you would call beta guys with girls, plenty of broke bums slaying women, race does factor in to dating, and etc. What has happened is that most guys that took this information to heart ended up becoming bitter pessimistic mgtows/red pills to compensate for their anger. Deep down they know the mindset is bullshvt, but they do not want to acknowledge this because everybody wants to be the victim in their own story. The best thing to do is to take and digest the few positive characteristics from the alpha/beta mindset and move on.

 

[Initiatedindenial]

I mildly agree.

When we like someone and we get dumped for whatever reason we hate to acknowledge that it was not under our control. It is easier to accept that if I behave in a certain way, I will not get dumped, and if I happen to detect lost of interest I walk out first to keep my pride intact.

Reality is that when relating with the other gender there are so many variables and most of them based on the two persons previous experiences that cannot be determined.

What PUA provides is a blueprint to avoid pitfalls that will result in lost of attraction due to culturally embedded behaviour.

Do you need to be the perfect alpha to have a fullfilling relationship? No. But the more alpha you are the more girls will be subconsciously attracted to you.

 

[wifehunter]

Is DJ vs AFC, anyway.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

Alpha-beta classification is employed throughout biological taxonomy and is therefore absolutely appropriate to classify humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomy_(biology)#Alpha_and_beta_taxonomy

The further I go along, though I also agree it's something of a grey area, the more I realise that there are definitely solid alphas and solid betas everywhere; the ultimate variable being, strength-weakness.

In today's society, I'd estimate that the broad measure of a man's strength-weakness quota is his level of supplication towards women.

There are Super, Greater and Lesser Alphas, and greater and lesser betas. The lines between these classes are of course blurred and a man can transit from one group to another at any given time for any given number of reasons.

Alpha-Beta, red pill-blue pill. It all means the same thing. You either feel personally successful with women, or you don't. You see a guy is successful or you see him fail. You feel trapped, or you feel free. That's the difference.

 

[zekko]

I'm no fan of PUA literature, classes/workshops, etc. precisely because it is too often presented in a black & white manner

You've hit the nail right on the head here. There is value in most PUA ideas, including the alpha/beta example. The problem comes in the presentation: People present the world in these black and white stereotypes, and a lot of new guys want to frame everything in real life in that light. Instead of seeing it as the teaching tool that it should be.

But I disagree when you say newbies shouldn't be told from the start that there are exceptions. This is dumbing down the material and talking down to newbies. I don't like the idea of teaching someone something, then going back a few years later and saying "Hey, remember when I told you x? Well, that isn't exactly true.".

Meanwhile, the kid has shot his mouth off all over the internet about alphas. Give them the right information to begin with.

 

[ThisNThat]

I'm no fan of PUA literature, classes/workshops, etc. precisely because it is too often presented in a black & white manner, whereas I believe and have always said the "rules" are merely guidelines and there are always exceptions. In fact, I personally believe a secure, alpha man who occasionally flashes a beta behavior now and then is the unicorn every woman wants.

The problem is when you try to introduce these ideas to men who struggle with women due to a high imbalance between alpha and beta behaviors. You can't tell a lonely chump that sometimes being alpha isn't always necessary or that sometimes beta can actually work, because in doing so they will come to believe they aren't really doing anything wrong and won't be as willing to adopt certain alpha traits and/or abandon certain beta behaviors to the extent that they need to in order to actually start succeeding more with women.

It's like you have to BREAK THEM first, until they see the light, then you can tell them where exceptions can be made, rules can be broken, etc.

I do not favorite either. Though I don't have dates lined up on a weekly basis, I have attracted women quite effortlessly, but in a less frequent manner. It's interesting, because there's a male "playa" I know, in his early 50s that gets a lot of women, but can't keep them. I think he does a lot of sleeping around.

Friend of mine told me to stay away from that guy's advice considering I proved him wrong in a sense by attracting women by just being myself and that being "beta" or whatever they call it in this generation was irrelevant to that.

 

[Glassguy]

I have learned a very easy lifestyle when it comes to women by just following a few important guidelines. I be myself, but I am an improved version of myself after a couple hard knocks relationship wise.

1.) Listen to your gut (its normally right) and do not ignore red flags. Red flags equal plate status and too many red flags equal dismissal.

2.) I game but I dont play games. When women start playing games, I dismiss them. The same goes for women who would openly flirt around me, have wondering eyes, still hung up on the ex, etc. My time is valuable as is any and all attention I give a woman. I will withdraw all of both immediately and without further explanation for these acts.

3.) Abundance- keep several plates on hand and if one acts as above, dismiss her. There are millions of fine looking women in this world to put up with one that constantly acts out of line. This is hand in hand with the ability to walk away at any time.

4.) Most importantly, do not lose frame. I used to argue with a chick when she would bait me into it. Not anymore. There are both spoken and unspoken expectations between me and the women I date. If they cross the line, I dont even bring it up. I just withdraw attention/NC. I am too wise to waste time and energy arguing with someone who runs off emotions instead of logic.

There are certainly a lot of gray areas, but the bottom line is if it doesnt feel right, it probably isnt. Dont let a woman break your frame and hold strong. If she wants to please you, she will come to her senses. If not, there are a million other women to sift through and have lots of fun along the way.

Have fun with dating, have expectations, communicate and if she cant fill your reasonable expectations, kick her @ss to the curb and give another hot chick a shot!

 

[old_skoolr]

A b!tch is a b!tch. That's pretty much it really.

 

[bigneil]

Plenty of broke bums slaying women.

True, but thank you for not aspiring to be a broke bum.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I half agree with everyone and all ideologies.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The PUA stuff that I use, and greatly enjoy, literally almost never uses these terms.

Guys always trash PUA on here. But it's always in vague, and useless ways.

If you field tested something, and found it to be the opposite of what you've found inset, then explain it.

Btw, as far as I know, it was Roissy that popularized the alpha term as we know it. Guy doesn't sell anything - it's a free blog.

PUA speak.

 

[zekko]

I honestly rarely see anything about alpha-beta on this board.

Really? When Pook King was here, his favorite phrase was "beta faggot". And he was probably the most influential poster on the forum.

I'm not against explaining to newbies that exceptions can often be made. What I don't advocate is getting into the finer details of it straight out of the gates. It can be confusing for them. That's all I'm saying.

I agree there's no necessity to get into finer details.

What irritates me is that when people point out exceptions, PUA gurus have a pocket response to dismiss them: NAWALT. Which means Not All Women Are Like That, for those who don't know. This implies that while there are exceptions, there are not enough exceptions as to be statistically significant. Another such phrase is "The exception proves the rule" (which is kind of dumb, when you think about it).

So if you say women ride the c0ck carousel until they are 30, and then panic and marry a "beta", how many women are we talking about if PUAs say that the exceptions are not in significant enough numbers to be concerned about? The truth is, in the US, half of all women have already been married by age 30, so you can put half the women in the NAWALT column right from the beginning. Ridiculing people for pointing out exceptions is just a tactic for pulling the wool over people's eyes.