Worst Job?

[Tenacity]

In all due fairness, in the POF thread, 9Volt trolled me, with entire straw arguments. I literally cut and paste "Show me where I said," and "More antagonist words" 16 times before he got warned. No substantive arguments there. FYI, 9volt is 19 years old.

I didn't know he was 19 years old, but even so, if the guy is trolling you then ignore him.

At the end of the day, the marketplace is only as strong as what it is willing to pay you, and as we have middle-class wages over 250k/yr. in Manhattan, we certainly don't have those type of salaries in MI in such mass numbers.

That's incorrect. Considering the size of Michigan, when you get over here in the Suburbs where I'm at, you have many people making well over $200,000 per year. Manhattan benefits greatly due to WALLSTREET and that drives up the incomes over there in my opinion. But here in Michigan, despite the Auto Industry being gutted, you have a lot of Technology, Service, Energy, and Financial Services companies over here where people are doing very well AND enjoying a low cost of living.

We further established there are no investment opportunities from which to proliferate in Michigan

We in no way established this because this is in no way true.

,.....so the ideal of becoming a millionaire in the short-term is a stretch there.

Where and how does anybody become a millionaire in the short term, if they don't have a trust fund or an established network of capital?

Diametrically in NY, all you needed in 2005 was 75k for a 10% down payment on a 750K condo, and today you would be a millionaire today.

Legend I want you to read this quote from yourself again.....slowly.....then answer these questions:

- Does the AVERAGE guy have $75,000 laying around for a down payment?

- Can the AVERAGE guy afford the payments, maintenance, repairs, etc. on a $750,000 condo?

When I say the AVERAGE guy, I'm talking the majority of Americans. The only guy doing the deal you outlined would be a guy already in the Top 5% of individual income earners in the country. Which means he's already making good money, already has a network established, and has capital to STORE in real estate.

95% of Americans can't do what you just outlined Legend and I reckon that about 99.9% of guys ON THIS BOARD can't do what you just outlined either.

Yes, location matters.

Yes, it matters based on your skillset and the market demand for said skillset....and WHERE in the country those skills are in demand. That might be NYC, that might be Sterling Heights, MI, that might be (another high as hell living area) Silicon Valley, it might be Dallas, TX, etc., etc.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Some juice here. This is what I expect of you:

.
That's incorrect. Considering the size of Michigan, when you get over here in the Suburbs where I'm at, you have many people making well over $200,000 per year. Manhattan benefits greatly due to WALLSTREET and that drives up the incomes over there in my opinion. But here in Michigan, despite the Auto Industry being gutted, you have a lot of Technology, Service, Energy, and Financial Services companies over here where people are doing very well AND enjoying a low cost of living.

If we exclude all rent-stabilized residents and students, there would be a huge disparity pro rata in $250k/yr earners between MI and NY. You cannot compare the earners in the financial capital of the world with MI.

We in no way established this because this is in no way true.

No? I showed you a 2600 percent return in Manhattan for the average condo bought 12 years ago. Show me any comparable investment opportunities in MI. I'm waiting.

Where and how does anybody become a millionaire in the short term, if they don't have a trust fund or an established network of capital?

I already demonstrated an example, with real estate.

Legend I want you to read this quote from yourself again.....slowly.....then answer these questions:

- Does the AVERAGE guy have $75,000 laying around for a down payment?

As 250k/yr is middle class income in this city, although the cost of living is higher, one could simply rent for a year or two and save 75k easily. Herein is my whole point. Even if the cost of living were 100% higher in Manhattan, the middle class income of 250/yr supersedes the highest median income in any city in MI by 400%.

Again:

100% higher COL
400% higher income

Translation: More monies saved in Manhattan.

- Can the AVERAGE guy afford the payments, maintenance, repairs, etc. on a $750,000 condo?

Yes! Middle class income is 250k/yr!

95% of Americans can't do what you just outlined Legend and I reckon that about 99.9% of guys ON THIS BOARD can't do what you just outlined either.

Because they reside in dead areas like many cities in MI. Hence, move to areas where investment opportunities are replete.

Yes, it matters based on your skillset and the market demand for said skillset....and WHERE in the country those skills are in demand. That might be NYC, that might be Sterling Heights, MI, that might be (another high as hell living area) Silicon Valley, it might be Dallas, TX, etc., etc

Miss the entire point. Market demand is higher in areas where cost of living (COL) is higher, as there must be enough output to service the COL. Hence, higher income. Hence, higher population. Hence, greater demand for housing. Hence, great real-estate opportunities and ease to reach 7-figure net worths.

Hey listen, I invested in other states. So I am well aware of many investment markets in the U.S. I have arrived at one significant conclusion in building a strong net worth: Location matters.

 

[Tenacity]

Some juice here. This is what I expect of you:


If we exclude all rent-stabilized residents and students, there would be a huge disparity pro rata in $250k/yr earners between MI and NY. You cannot compare the earners in the financial capital of the world with MI.

Sir, you can't go excluding certain portions of the population to try and make a point . Now if I were to do that for the Michigan area you would throw a fit! You have to include them ALL in the demograhic study and for NYC the median income is LOWER than Sterling Heights, MI, and NYC has a MUCH higher cost of living. It's bad, bad, bad, bad.

No? I showed you a 2600 percent return in Manhattan for the average condo bought 12 years ago. Show me any comparable investment opportunities in MI. I'm waiting.

The investment in your example is inaccessible for 95% of people in this country and 99.99% of people on this forum. You can't use investments that only the Top 1% or so can utilize, then try to make them be examples of investment vehicles that MOST people can participate in.

As 250k/yr is middle class income in this city,

An individual will be middle class in Manhattan making $120k - $150k per year. These articles here backup my research and commentary:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...arning-500000-manhattan-make-you-middle-clas/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/realestate/what-is-middle-class-in-manhattan.html

although the cost of living is higher, one could simply rent for a year or two and save 75k easily.

If an individual (with no family, no kids, etc.) is making $250,000 - $350,000 per year than I can understand that. But that's a significant amount of money and I just showed you the demographics that the majority of people in NYC are NOT making that level of money. Most there are struggling due to the high cost of living. And NO you can't pick and choose which sections of the population you want to focus on to try and make your point . That would be like me excluding Detroit, Flint, and Saginaw from the Michigan numbers, and only using the Suburbs in the calculation!

Market demand is higher in areas where cost of living (COL) is higher,

Are you talking in general, across the board? Come on Legend man....I know you aren't making this argument dude.

Hence, higher income. Hence, higher population.

Sir, I just showed you that NYC has a LOWER median income and a HIGHER cost of living index than Sterling Heights.

Hence, greater demand for housing. Hence, great real-estate opportunities and ease to reach 7-figure net worth

Right because number one, everybody in NYC are real estate developers/investors, and number two, everybody in NYC is loaded with capital to do these deals . The ONLY people doing the real estate deals you describe are in the Top 5% or quite honestly, perhaps the Top 1%. 95% - 99% of people can't even DO the shyt you are talking about Legend.

 

[Pandora]

Worst job ever is toll booth collector in the Washington DC/MD/VA area. Hot in the summer, cold in the winter, either busy as fu** or slow as fu*k. You get cussed out by strangers, you get to play with dirty money, you have to do math all day long, people give you foreign coins, you sometimes pay for peoples toll because they start crying etc etc. You only make around $12 an hour. Yeh i would rather go to jail.

 

[Epicwinguy]

Can ya add "labor office employee" to the list?

Worst **** ever. Shoveling mud out in the heat alongside meth addicts for minimum wage.

 

[Julian]

Sweet lord in the name of all that is good on these forums can you guys PLEASE stop arguing about median household incomes between NY and michigan and whatever other useless crap you are arguing about? Please stick to the thread topic. wtf is a mod to come regulate on this hoe ass behavior. arguing on here like some bishes. STFU please and thank you. @Tenacity @l_e_g_e_n_d

 

[AlexKaiser]

I don't think most people on here own property yet, or even have a passive source of income like rentable properties.

 

[Tenacity]

I don't think most people on here own property yet, or even have a passive source of income like rentable properties.

Not everybody wants to own real estate either. I could have been purchased a house, but I honestly don't think I ever will.

The math doesn't make sense, I like having the freedom to move whenever I want, plus I have no "kids" (it's just me) so not sure why a house is even needed.

I can break down why the math makes no sense if you like.....

 

[GoodOne123]

I have property. I Inherited it.

I believe that you can move anywhere you want if you have rented properties, the way to do it is to have a property manager. But I have no experience of doing this.

Anyone have any experience with property managers? Is using one any good?

 

[BeTheChange]

Sosuave moderator.

 

[AlexKaiser]

Not everybody wants to own real estate either. I could have been purchased a house, but I honestly don't think I ever will.

The math doesn't make sense, I like having the freedom to move whenever I want, plus I have no "kids" (it's just me) so not sure why a house is even needed.

I can break down why the math makes no sense if you like.....

I get why the math doesn't make sense in the simple terms.

But when it comes to somebody like me, with no degrees and having experience only at gas stations, FF restaurants and grocery stores, going to a place like NY seems like a dangerous task financially. Wouldn't know how much to bring or where to go. I don't even know what a condo is.

 

[guru1000]

Not everybody wants to own real estate either. I could have been purchased a house, but I honestly don't think I ever will.

The math doesn't make sense, I like having the freedom to move whenever I want, plus I have no "kids" (it's just me) so not sure why a house is even needed.

I can break down why the math makes no sense if you like.....

Ya, of course R/E makes no sense.

It makes no sense to buy multi-unit R/E with rents that provide positive monthly cash flow after paying your mortgage, taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, and property managers (so you don't need to invest much time) and giving you a free place to live--bought with a 20% down payment and 80% mortgage to be paid in 20 years in an area with no property appreciation for a 400% return in 20 years (Equity / Down Payment) or in a strong municipality with burgeoning economics and growing population with historical returns of properties appreciating at 300% every 20 years for a total 1200% return (Equity / Down Payment).

Yes you are right, better to squander your money on rent and lose $250,000-$500,000 (over 20-30 years) in rent money as opposed to investing those rent monies into the vehicles outlined above for a net return of $3 - $6 MM not including the positive cash flow you would receive each month nor the the potential of your pulling cash out as you build equity to buy more properties with the same stratagem.

Yes, further, as you so naively mention, there is no freedom buying R/E. If you decided to move, it's not like you could actually keep the property as an investment or sell the property.

Let's also not forget the deep tax write offs you attain through "depreciation," "maintenance," and "improvements." We just all love to pay taxes instead of saving tax money to invest into more R/E.

Your idea is brilliant! Keep striving for that 1MM (1/3 mil NPV over 30 years!)

 

[Tenacity]

Ya, of course R/E makes no sense.

It makes no sense to buy multi-unit R/E with rents that provide positive monthly cash flow after paying your mortgage, taxes, insurance, maintenance, utilities, and property managers (so you don't need to invest much time) and giving you a free place to live--bought with a 20% down payment and 80% mortgage to be paid in 20 years in an area with no property appreciation for a 400% return in 20 years (Equity / Down Payment) or in a strong municipality with burgeoning economics and growing population with historical returns of properties appreciating at 300% every 20 years for a total 1200% return (Equity / Down Payment).

Yes you are right, better to squander your money on rent and lose $250,000-$500,000 (over 20-30 years) in rent money as opposed to investing those rent monies into the vehicles outlined above for a net return of $3 - $6 MM not including the positive cash flow you would receive each month nor the the potential of your pulling cash out as you build equity to buy more properties with the same stratagem.

Yes, further, as you so naively mention, there is no freedom buying R/E. If you decided to move, it's not like you could actually keep the property as an investment or sell the property.

Let's also not forget the deep tax write offs you attain through "depreciation," "maintenance," and "improvements." We just all love to pay taxes instead of saving tax money to invest into more R/E.

Your idea is brilliant! Keep striving for that 1MM (1/3 mil NPV over 30 years!)

Says the guy who:

- When I ask him to provide full details of HIS plan, he runs off, yet he will spend 2 weeks criticizing my plan.

- Who snaps on me in Private Messages saying he's going to "sue me" if I criticize him on the forum again. How's that lawsuit coming along BTW? Remember you said you and your "attorney friend" like to sue people for fun.

- Who has two accounts, the Guru one and the Legend one, which if Poon King is going to be banned for having multiple accounts, then why are you still allowed to be here? You clearly are Legend as well.

- Who frauded people out of money in a stock scam, went to jail for it, now gets up preaching to people how they can become "millionaires" by flipping real estate and day trading, which are two of the most complex investment strategies ever with the VAST majority of people losing their fvcking "shirt" over it.

Sorry, I don't take you seriously anymore.

Fraudsters push bullshyt snake oil on the gullible and the people (sorry to say, like BeTheChange) who are in a HURRY to build wealth, as if real wealth is built overnight. People like that are the only people who fall for your bullshyt fix/flip scams, day trading scams, and other crap, as they are the ones who attend these "seminars" on fix/flip B.S. along with day trading B.S. They are the ones who pay for the "workshops".

The vast majority of people with Wealth do it my way, so if I'm "stupid" then I'm in good company.

 

[guru1000]

Thanks for supporting my argument. Ad hominems only expose the weakness of your position, WHICH IS you have no logical position for renting other than naivete.

The vast majority of people with Wealth do it my way, so if I'm "stupid" then I'm in good company.

Bemoans one sheep of the herd.

 

[Tenacity]

Thanks for supporting my argument. Ad hominems only expose the weakness of your position, WHICH IS you have no logical position for renting other than naivete.

Bemoans one sheep of the herd.

Look at Guru/Legend snapping at nearly 4 am in the morning, in this thread here: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/beware-the-life-coach.239547/page-6#post-2416711. You got my bro's thread locked? Because you can't take the FACT that people on the internet don't agree with your investment theories?

If you have a problem with 9Volt then why don't you ignore him? Why don't you ignore BlueAlpha? You are so fvcking "rich" yet you can't control your emotions and continue to FLIP out like this?

And stop with your racist "monkey" comments towards me. Maybe I need to just put you on Ignore myself.

 

[guru1000]

It's in your best psychological interest to ignore me as I direct you the truth of your own ignorance. After all, ignorance is bliss, but 1MM (1/3 MM NPV over 30 yrs.) isn't.

 

[Tenacity]

It's in your best psychological interest to ignore me as I direct you the truth of your own ignorance. After all, ignorance is bliss, but 1MM (1/3 MM NPV over 30 yrs.) isn't.

No, hold on, let's look at what you said in that other thread....

Mods, if you delete this post which I have already copied, I will paste it right back into this thread. If you lock this thread, I will create another thread and paste it.

This is troll behavior.

If you permit a troll like 9Volt to run amok in this forum, this is the type of quality to expect. So ban me and keep 9Volt now.

- 9Volt is one user out of 81,813 other users on this forum.

- Explain to me how you are so rich, so Alpha, so perfect, yet 9Volt gets under your skin like this to the POINT........where you ask the Moderators to ban yourself from the forum?

- A forum of which, I mind you, that you told to me in Private Message that you make money off of through consulting "clients" on here. Remember, you were going to sue me for criticizing you on the forum because I was making you lose said clients.

You know what's so sad? I actually have put my REAL life on this forum. My real experiences, my real pain, my real success, my real pics, real women I'm dating, my real city, everything. Yet, I'm surrounded by a bunch of people who are just fvcking FAKE all the way around.

Maybe I'm on the wrong forum?

 

[guru1000]

No, hold on, let's look at what you said in that other thread....
This is troll behavior.

Exactly. You treat a troll with troll behavior. And ANY thread that 9Volt decides to troll from now on, he will be met with the same.

- 9Volt is one user out of 81,813 other users on this forum.

- Explain to me how you are so rich, so Alpha, so perfect, yet 9Volt gets under your skin like this to the POINT........where you ask the Moderators to ban yourself from the forum?

- A forum of which, I mind you, that you told to me in Private Message that you make money off of through consulting "clients" on here. Remember, you were going to sue me for criticizing you on the forum because I was making you lose said clients.

You know what's so sad? I actually have put my REAL life on this forum. My real experiences, my real pain, my real success, my real pics, real women I'm dating, my real city, everything. Yet, I'm surrounded by a bunch of people who are just fvcking FAKE all the way around.

Maybe I'm on the wrong forum?

Weak diversion (for a lost position). Let me repeat the subject matter, in case you are honestly confused:

Show me WHY renting is a more lucrative investment than buying primary-residing multi-family R/E purchased with due diligence (which includes but is NOT limited to positive cash flow after paying ALL expenses, strong municipalities with burgeoning economies and growing population at a minimum 80/20 Debt to DP & extreme tax savings).

 

[Tenacity]

Exactly. You treat a troll with troll behavior. And ANY thread that 9Volt decides to troll from now on, he will be met with the same.

So it's that easy for a guy to control your actions? All he has to do is "troll you" and you will start trolling back? And you don't think that's weak?

Show me WHY renting is a more lucrative investment than buying primary-residing multi-family R/E purchased with due diligence

Whether or not someone buys real estate should depend upon how long they are going to be in an area. If you plan on moving within 5 years, the transaction costs will leave you in a losing position the vast majority of the time. Yes, you can have someone else manage the property, but that's an entire different headache that MOST people (including myself) don't want to deal with.

- Right now I am in a Suburb area paying $760 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment. With Rent comes a full size gym that's on our complex, lakefront patio, a pool resort upfront, free personal fitness training classes, a yoga room, a business conference room, AND included in rent is our Natural Gas, Water, and Trash. Then of course, you get the standard maintenance, uptake of the property, uptake of the area, etc., that's included.

- Seeing as though I want to only stay in a Suburb, to purchase a house, I would need to look no smaller than a $200,000 house purchase. Assuming a 4% rate on a 30 year fixed, I'm looking at a $955 per month payment BEFORE you bring in taxes, insurance, maintenance, repairs, ALL of the utilities (including water, trash, gas), the fact that I would have to purchase a gym membership, etc.

- So my total housing costs will GO UP, they would at least increase by 2.5 times. Now, this is great if I want to "invest in real estate", but what if I don't want to invest in real estate? Real estate appreciation hasn't been that great and seeing as though I have NO kids (it's just me), as long as I continue to rent efficiently like I am now.......I'm actually in a much better situation.

But again, this is my personal situation, I'm not telling guys that my situation applies to their situation. The decision to purchase real estate or not should come down to the individual, not some "standard" bullshyt rule that "renting is always throwing money away". That's bullshyt.

 

[guru1000]

Whether or not someone buys real estate should depend upon how long they are going to be in an area. If you plan on moving within 5 years, the transaction costs will leave you in a losing position the vast majority of the time. Yes, you can have someone else manage the property, but that's an entire different headache that MOST people (including myself) don't want to deal with.

Strong R/E investments are entirely irrelevant to how long you intend to live in an area. If you do you due diligence and secure multi-family properties with cash flow (after ALL expenses), while you live in the property expense free and thus saving rent money--if you do decide to leave the neighborhood, you can rent your unit for additional monthly cash flow, hold the property for 20-30 years paying down the mortgage and building equity while rents in the area will continually increase thus building greater cash flow over time.

Accordingly, this rebut is without merit.

- Right now I am in a Suburb area paying $760 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment. With Rent comes a full size gym that's on our complex, lakefront patio, a pool resort upfront, free personal fitness training classes, a yoga room, a business conference room, AND included in rent is our Natural Gas, Water, and Trash. Then of course, you get the standard maintenance, uptake of the property, uptake of the area, etc., that's included.

- Seeing as though I want to only stay in a Suburb, to purchase a house, I would need to look no smaller than a $200,000 house purchase. Assuming a 4% rate on a 30 year fixed, I'm looking at a $955 per month payment BEFORE you bring in taxes, insurance, maintenance, repairs, ALL of the utilities (including water, trash, gas), the fact that I would have to purchase a gym membership, etc.

A one-family property is not the subject matter. Again, the argument is:

Show me WHY renting is a more lucrative investment than buying primary-residing multi-family R/E purchased with due diligence (which includes but is NOT limited to positive cash flow after paying ALL expenses, strong municipalities with burgeoning economies and growing population at a minimum 80/20 Debt to DP; extreme tax savings; with no rent expense for yourself).

- So my total housing costs will GO UP, they would at least increase by 2.5 times. Now, this is great if I want to "invest in real estate", but what if I don't want to invest in real estate? Real estate appreciation hasn't been that great and seeing as though I have NO kids (it's just me), as long as I continue to rent efficiently like I am now.......I'm actually in a much better situation.

In arguendo, if you did not do your due diligence and purchased in weak municipalities with struggling economies and no population growth, and thus the property had no appreciation over 20 years, you still gain the following advantages:

• Extreme tax savings by "depreciation," "maintenance," "improvements." The other tax savings for mortgage, tax, insurance, and "extras" goes directly against the rental income for a wash;
• Pay down of a mortgage that is 400% of your down payment, which still leads to a 400% return over the amortization with zero appreciation of the property;
• No rent expense, and thus extra monies to invest elsewhere;
• First-hand knowledge and experience of the R/E market and vehicle to be aware of other lucrative investments in other areas to capitalize upon.

Accordingly, this rebut, too, is without merit.

But again, this is my personal situation, I'm not telling guys that my situation applies to their situation. The decision to purchase real estate or not should come down to the individual, not some "standard" bullshyt rule that "renting is always throwing money away". That's bullshyt.

The only thing that is "bvllshvt" here is your analysis.

Think harder. I would like you to research professional objections online and come back to this thread. I'll be back in 48 hours.