For those seeking successful ltr's....

[The Duke]

There are several on here looking for long term relationships and we've all made mistakes and learned from ones that have failed. I thought it might be beneficial to list a few things that one should take into account when trying to secure the best female candidates for ltr's. We can all save ourselves some heartache by screening out the bad apples before we are heavily invested.

1. Get her to open up about her childhood. If her childhood was less than ideal there's a good chance she never learned the skills necessary for a successful relationship.

2. Does she think highly of her parents? If the girl admires her parents, find out what it is she admires about them. If its the life skills she learned from them, its likely she will posess those as well and be able to conduct herself successfuly in a ltr.

3. If she is a "love bomber"....and dives in head first and can't get enough of you, run as fast as you can. Don't take this as "oh, she's just totally into me". Take this as, someone that can't modulate her emotions properly.

4. Ask her about the failed relationships in her past. If she doesn't accept any of the blame for the failures, she won't admit fault to the issues you and her will have together.

5. Don't put much stock into how great the first 3-4months are.

 

[5string]

Look in her medicine cabinet to see what medications she is taking.

 

[pdx1138]

Look in her medicine cabinet to see what medications she is taking.

The first time I get invited over to any woman's place, when I use the restroom, I do just that to see what I'm in for lol.

Good post Howie my last girlfriend: (it lasted 4 months)

1. her brother practically raised her. mom was always working, father absent.
which explained their unusually close relationship.

2. hated her father, wanted nothing to do with him.

3. not sure about 3, she wasn't that needy

4. I know the last guy she was with, bowed to her every wish and she
still left him without a second thought. I never did that and maintained the frame throughout.

5. very true. She was unwilling to "work it" instead told me she wanted to see other people after a few arguments.

 

[froznie]

In any LTR just be ready for when her friends start getting married and she wants the same thing

Don't become a chump. Marry her if and only if that's what you really want. Have kids only if and when you know you are ready. Don't do what you don't want to do out of fear of losing her or else you'll be her puppy forever and be miserable the rest of your life

 

[Desdinova]

3. If she is a "love bomber"....and dives in head first and can't get enough of you, run as fast as you can. Don't take this as "oh, she's just totally into me". Take this as, someone that can't modulate her emotions properly.

This is a bit borderline. Saying that high IL is a red flag is going to ensure that you are not successful in finding a good LTR candidate. The only time high IL should be a red flag is if she starts becoming extremely demanding and controlling because of it. If she's just spoiling the 5hit out of you, enjoy it and don't take it for granted.

 

[Die Hard]

This is a bit borderline. Saying that high IL is a red flag is going to ensure that you are not successful in finding a good LTR candidate. The only time high IL should be a red flag is if she starts becoming extremely demanding and controlling because of it. If she's just spoiling the 5hit out of you, enjoy it and don't take it for granted.

SMV is key here..If your SMV is significantly higher than hers, it could explain her diving in head first and not getting enough of you. But if you're not that much higher on the scale compared to her, then I tend to agree with Howiestern and believe her behavior should be regarded as a red flag.

 

[BeExcellent]

I agree with @Desdinova and his comment on this one.

One thing I find frustrating is the silly little dance at the very beginning of dating. I am a good decision maker. I like to have bold decisive people in my life. If a man is bold & decisve this is a big (+).

If I like a man & find him attractive I enjoy doing things to encourage him assuming he initiates contact.

I'd be great with a man I liked saying "You know I really like you let's see where it goes..." I'd respond "You know I really like you too, I'm in."

I for one would greatly appreciate that kind of cut through the BS transparency because I don't think a man with strong inner game gives up frame by doing that. Decisiveness is damn sexy. I know what I am seeking when it presents itself before me and I'm perfectly good to make a decision of "Yes please!" So if it's mutual I'd be great with having that sorted & move on forward.

But dating is not that straight forward. You have men waiting around for women to blow up their phones...(the best women don't do this & were taught that this behavior is too forward & too masculine)...and men too timid to make a decision and ask for what they want.

You have men & women both who are too afraid to seek depth with one person so they fiddle faddle around juggling plates & orbiters.

So men & women stare at each other
hoping something good will happen & hoping the one they fancy fancies them in return.

I'm happy to cook, entertain, help & be very loving to the kind of man I enjoy. I enjoy giving. But he's got to invite me to respond. There are women with much to give earnestly if only the man will grow a pair & speak his desire into existence.

But I'm not going to chase a man down if he hasn't indicated he would like my attention. I'm patient. I'm waiting for his cue.

So my advice for those seeking LTR is to make a decision and move in that direction. That is the most masculine thing to do in my view. Go in a direction, lead & invite her to follow.

 

[The Duke]

This is a bit borderline. Saying that high IL is a red flag is going to ensure that you are not successful in finding a good LTR candidate. The only time high IL should be a red flag is if she starts becoming extremely demanding and controlling because of it. If she's just spoiling the 5hit out of you, enjoy it and don't take it for granted.

High IL and "Love Bombing" are two different things. Please read up on the term "love bombing". You can visit any psychology site to learn more.

 

[btownbuck2012]

I agree with @Desdinova and his comment on this one.

One thing I find frustrating is the silly little dance at the very beginning of dating. I am a good decision maker. I like to have bold decisive people in my life. If a man is bold & decisve this is a big (+).

If I like a man & find him attractive I enjoy doing things to encourage him assuming he initiates contact.

I'd be great with a man I liked saying "You know I really like you let's see where it goes..." I'd respond "You know I really like you too, I'm in."

I for one would greatly appreciate that kind of cut through the BS transparency because I don't think a man with strong inner game gives up frame by doing that. Decisiveness is damn sexy. I know what I am seeking when it presents itself before me and I'm perfectly good to make a decision of "Yes please!" So if it's mutual I'd be great with having that sorted & move on forward.

But dating is not that straight forward. You have men waiting around for women to blow up their phones...(the best women don't do this & were taught that this behavior is too forward & too masculine)...and men too timid to make a decision and ask for what they want.

You have men & women both who are too afraid to seek depth with one person so they fiddle faddle around juggling plates & orbiters.

So men & women stare at each other
hoping something good will happen & hoping the one they fancy fancies them in return.

I'm happy to cook, entertain, help & be very loving to the kind of man I enjoy. I enjoy giving. But he's got to invite me to respond. There are women with much to give earnestly if only the man will grow a pair & speak his desire into existence.

But I'm not going to chase a man down if he hasn't indicated he would like my attention. I'm patient. I'm waiting for his cue.

So my advice for those seeking LTR is to make a decision and move in that direction. That is the most masculine thing to do in my view. Go in a direction, lead & invite her to follow.

You can be this way because you're a woman and you don't ever have to make the first move because you naturally have an abundance of men coming at you and trying to get your attention. Therefore, you can't talk about this kind of thing like it's a virtue on your part - i.e. "I can wait, I'm patient, etc.". Well men could act this way too if they were in your position.

A man being forward with you is a HUGE risk to that man and one of very little risk to you. The reason being is because for a man to get women to engage with him, he needs to cast a wide net and THEN screen what he catches. As a man you have to get women interested in you before you can even really start the screening process. Again, we're talking about HIGH INTEREST LEVEL. As a man you must have that before you can EVEN start filtering, and when a woman is highly interested she'll hide all kinds of crap from you. Love bombing is absolutely a red flag because it can mask poor character and damaged, dangerous women.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I continue to be amazed at how women pat themselves on the back for stuff that to a man is basic life skill stuff.

^This is all in the context of LTRs by the way, not red flags/screening when you're dating.

 

[BeExcellent]

You can be this way because you're a woman and you don't ever have to make the first move because you naturally have an abundance of men coming at you and trying to get your attention. Therefore, you can't talk about this kind of thing like it's a virtue on your part - i.e. "I can wait, I'm patient, etc.". Well men could act this way too if they were in your position.

A man being forward with you is a HUGE risk to that man and one of very little risk to you. The reason being is because for a man to get women to engage with him, he needs to cast a wide net and THEN screen what he catches. As a man you have to get women interested in you before you can even really start the screening process. Again, we're talking about HIGH INTEREST LEVEL. As a man you must have that before you can EVEN start filtering, and when a woman is highly interested she'll hide all kinds of crap from you. Love bombing is absolutely a red flag because it can mask poor character and damaged, dangerous women.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I continue to be amazed at how women pat themselves on the back for stuff that to a man is basic life skill stuff.

^This is all in the context of LTRs by the way, not red flags/screening when you're dating.

Actually I understand the landscape perfectly. I agree the man is expected to make the first move. Frankly I'd be fine with making the first move if I see someone I like (or think I might like) and that is exactly the problem. If I as the chick go and make the first move, three things happen and none of them are good.

1. I will never know if the guy ever actually liked me well enough to make the first move.
2. I will not respect him the as I would if he had the guts to make the first move.
3. I look too forward and perhaps desperate, which turns good men off.

Ask me how I know...I have gone the route of doing the approaching before (since I have no issue with it and figure nothing ventured, nothing gained) and I know from experience myself that it puts out the wrong vibe. If the woman makes the initial approach she is seen as too forward and too masculine. So for me, I can be as assertive as I like in a professional sense, and as fearless, but I am myself constrained by societal conventions because the men I like (dominant, assertive alpha types) actually prefer a demure, feminine woman and that is naturally what I am...but it sends entirely the wrong message in any number of ways if I, the girl, approaches. That is why I am so resolute that the woman's job is to respond.

Furthermore, assuming the man has made the first move that isn't really the issue so much as what comes after the ice gets broken. This business of "get the woman to chase you" is flawed WITH WOMEN WORTH HAVING. So from a chick perspective, the guy breaks the ice, makes the first move, maybe has a first meet-up & everything goes swell.

Then the same guy then goes silent (because he thinks now the woman ought to be running after him with her tongue hanging out) and he waits for her to contact him, at which point he plans to set up another date. This is where men lose high interest level women. Truly feminine women are polite enough to await initiation from the guy for the second date, for the 3rd, the 4th and so forth. High quality women are going to make the assumption that you didn't like them well enough to go out again and they will simply move on. They won't chase after men. High quality women were taught growing up that "Girls don't call boys"; "Ladies don't call gentlemen." I can hear my mother and grandmother now.

High quality women also have too many options to do the chasing. If a man isn't indicating he is interested by initiating contact she assumes HE has low interest and she will move on the the next guy who has expressed interest.

The way it should go it like so:

Man: Approach/Initiate
Woman: Respond positively
Man: Initiate
Woman: Respond

And onward like so. A wise old man once said to me that the secret to his happy marriage of 50+ years was they just kept repeating the first 3 months over and over and over.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Actually I understand the landscape perfectly. I agree the man is expected to make the first move. Oh sure, of course.. Frankly I'd be fine with making the first move if I see someone I like (or think I might like) and that is exactly the problem. If I as the chick go and make the first move, three things happen and none of them are good. This is just rationalizing a situation that you don't have to put up with. Nobody likes approaching. It's hard work. But with women it's always, 'we're equals......until it gets too hard'. Men don't have the too hard option. Women would love to believe that they choose not to approach or initiate, but the fact of the matter is they don't have to. Most (95%+ are too chicken sh*t to event think about doing it, let alone actually try.

1. I will never know if the guy ever actually liked me well enough to make the first move. Guys have the same problem, except we risk much more in just getting to the point to have any type of relationship with a woman that could potentially leave us asking that question.
2. I will not respect him the as I would if he had the guts to make the first move. And what if you weren't attracted to/impressed by the guy who made the first move? Do you lose respect for him? Do you still give him your number out of respect?
3. I look too forward and perhaps desperate, which turns good men off. That's you assuming how you would look and not actually knowing if that's how men think. Most guys would be way more impressed with a woman having the guts to approach them then women could EVER understand vice versa, because guys, at least the ones making an effort, actually know how hard consistent approaching is. Women have no clue nor could they even imagine. Again, you're able to conveniently hid behind "it's the man's job", here as opposed to admitting your fear of rejection. Men, again, don't have that option.

Ask me how I know...I have gone the route of doing the approaching before (since I have no issue with it and figure nothing ventured, nothing gained) and I know from experience myself that it puts out the wrong vibe. How do you know? Have you seriously had men turn down sex with you because you approached? Serious answer, please. If the woman makes the initial approach she is seen as too forward and too masculine. Again, hiding behind the "it's a man's job" here. Most men do NOT think this way. Period. This is you not wanting to acknowledge that women have it easy when it comes to meeting new partners for potential dating and relationships. Period. So for me, I can be as assertive as I like in a professional sense, and as fearless, but I am myself constrained by societal conventions because the men I like (dominant, assertive alpha types) actually prefer a demure, feminine woman and that is naturally what I am...but it sends entirely the wrong message in any number of ways if I, the girl, approaches. Constrained by societal conventions? Welcome to the struggle that is MAN. That is why I am so resolute that the woman's job is to respond.

Furthermore, assuming the man has made the first move that isn't really the issue so much as what comes after the ice gets broken. This business of "get the woman to chase you" is flawed WITH WOMEN WORTH HAVING. Again, completely irrelevant to cold approaching and pickup as quality is almost impossible to distinguish when interest level is high. The only way to get an idea here is if she blows you out of the water and tells you to f*ck off or calls your creepy. It's either that or you get a phone number. Neither one of those things gives you any idea if she's quality or not. The idea that you can distinguish a quality woman from a non quality woman on a cold approach is ridiculous.

So from a chick perspective, the guy breaks the ice, makes the first move, maybe has a first meet-up & everything goes swell.

Then the same guy then goes silent (because he thinks now the woman ought to be running after him with her tongue hanging out) and he waits for her to contact him, at which point he plans to set up another date. This is where men lose high interest level women. Truly feminine women are polite enough to await initiation from the guy for the second date, for the 3rd, the 4th and so forth. High quality women are going to make the assumption that you didn't like them well enough to go out again and they will simply move on. Again, because they have so many options. Has nothing to do with their character or interest level. They won't chase after men. High quality women were taught growing up that "Girls don't call boys"; "Ladies don't call gentlemen." I can hear my mother and grandmother now. How convenient. But you all sure as hell have first dibs on the life boats when the titanic is sinking.

High quality women also have too many options to do the chasing. If a man isn't indicating he is interested by initiating contact she assumes HE has low interest and she will move on the the next guy who has expressed interest. Exactly. No risk whatsoever here for women.

The way it should go it like so:

Man: Approach/Initiate
Woman: Respond positively
Man: Initiate
Woman: Respond
A-lot of stuff in life should go differently than how it actually does.

And onward like so. A wise old man once said to me that the secret to his happy marriage of 50+ years was they just kept repeating the first 3 months over and over and over.

 

[BeExcellent]

Well @btownbuck2012 you seem bitter. I'm not crazy about the way things work all the time either. But it's fine. Have to be positive & keep going forward.

The times I initiated I didn't go offering sex (not my style) and sure I was turned down. Just because I'm a hot blonde doesn't mean I'm every one's cup of tea. I don't appeal to every man who appeals to me.

Just like high value men aren't going to appeal to every woman. So it's always a bit of a crap shoot. That's the deal.

Hot women do have lots of options. So my point is be the man & make it clear that you have interest by being decisive and bold. If she's on the fence boldness can sway her your way. I'm in no way suggesting supplication. High value men don't act that way; they know what they bring to the table.

Be better; not bitter.

 

[FwoGiZ]

I am noticing that a lot of people on here do HEAVY screening and will bail out at any sign of POTENTIAL issues... Personally I don't screen much except for what they look like and if they're fun. The rest, I couldn't care much. Throw any kind of drama at me tho, then you're nexted and you get 1 strike. I just don't deal with drama but it'll take me SOMETHING to dump a chick, not just imaginary maybe possible flags...!
Just like at the very beginning you don't care, she probably doesn't either. You gotta prove yourselves to each others and you gotta be realistic too, which is also why I never promise sexual exclusivity and don't expect/ask for it.

Any man that gets married without a prenup is simply a chump and I'd go as far as to say this isn't just an opinion... That along with having a kid, are the 2 worst financial decision you can do in life. Women runs no risks, but as a men we're HEAVILY disadvantaged in a non prenup marriage when (8X% chance) the family splits. If you want a kid, you should do so while accepting that you will split and end up having to pay child support in 60% of the cases. If the mom of your kid earns good money then you are good I guess, but still gotta accept that it's more likely that you will split cause we're in 2017. If you are ok with that, by all means go ahead. I am too old school for that **** personally.

A man being forward with you is a HUGE risk to that man and one of very little risk to you. The reason being is because for a man to get women to engage with him, he needs to cast a wide net and THEN screen what he catches. As a man you have to get women interested in you before you can even really start the screening process.

What risks are you talking about exactly? Rejection isn't a risk. Also, just like I said, too much screening does more harm than good.

If I as the chick go and make the first move, three things happen and none of them are good.

1. I will never know if the guy ever actually liked me well enough to make the first move.
2. I will not respect him the as I would if he had the guts to make the first move.
3. I look too forward and perhaps desperate, which turns good men off.

Mostly agreed. You seems to understand and accept women and men are different! You must be sexist
A girl coming at me for a date wouldn't impress me. It happened before and nothing good came outta it. Usually hypergamy ruins it all (since I have high esteem of my SMV)

This business of "get the woman to chase you" is flawed WITH WOMEN WORTH HAVING. So from a chick perspective, the guy breaks the ice, makes the first move, maybe has a first meet-up & everything goes swell.

Then the same guy then goes silent (because he thinks now the woman ought to be running after him with her tongue hanging out) and he waits for her to contact him, at which point he plans to set up another date. This is where men lose high interest level women. Truly feminine women are polite enough to await initiation from the guy for the second date, for the 3rd, the 4th and so forth. High quality women are going to make the assumption that you didn't like them well enough to go out again and they will simply move on. They won't chase after men. High quality women were taught growing up that "Girls don't call boys"; "Ladies don't call gentlemen." I can hear my mother and grandmother now.

High quality women also have too many options to do the chasing. If a man isn't indicating he is interested by initiating contact she assumes HE has low interest and she will move on the the next guy who has expressed interest.

And here I TOTALLY disagree. Here's why. As a non-chump Alpha dude, it would disgust myself if I found out I am one of those guys that have uninterested or not so interested girls around me. I mean, ultimately I do not care as long as we're getting laid but we're talking LTRs here right? Well at some point, after the initial dating phase, the lady gotta give some kind of feedback. Showing interest in another date/meet does exactly that.
So basically if we pitch 5-6-7-8-9 dates/meet but then wait to see if you're actually interested enough for YOU to pitch one, we lack interest?

It also always make me laugh when I hear/read "I was raised to believe" "I was taught growing up" ... c'mon now. I am sure you are red pill enough by now to realize that pretty much 75% of the crap "you were told growing up" is all bluepill pure BS!!!

@btownbuck2012
Dude gotta learn how to quote replies and ya quite bitter indeed!

 

[Fruitbat]

Well @btownbuck2012 you seem bitter. I'm not crazy about the way things work all the time either. But it's fine. Have to be positive & keep going forward.

The times I initiated I didn't go offering sex (not my style) and sure I was turned down. Just because I'm a hot blonde doesn't mean I'm every one's cup of tea. I don't appeal to every man who appeals to me.

Just like high value men aren't going to appeal to every woman. So it's always a bit of a crap shoot. That's the deal.

Hot women do have lots of options. So my point is be the man & make it clear that you have interest by being decisive and bold. If she's on the fence boldness can sway her your way. I'm in no way suggesting supplication. High value men don't act that way; they know what they bring to the table.

Be better; not bitter.

Hot women don't just have options. Options are men who are showing interest which for hot women is almost every man on some level.

The issue for us is that some of these hot women are so spoiled for this, it's not just a case of us guys going "hey baby, want to go for some Java?" "No thanks not interested" "ok, bye!"

That crude example is not the dating game for many men. My own experience in the world of dating and women is that you have a host of reasons women have for NOT telling you anything straight and trying to put you in orbit, or even worse, trying to exploit you or just game you for attention and fun, "anther guys in to me" at the gym or whatever.

This happened to me a lot and it eventually makes you weary and apprehensive because you never know what her purpose or ideas are. You question a woman with a high IL as this is exactly how women attractive orbiters acts. For me, I've been strung along by several women who everything felt a bit off with and it seems that the majority of girls out there will take anything that comes their way on the basis of self esteem and attention. Now it's become really difficult to be bold as with these girls, being bold is what they want and they'll let you punch yourself out and leave you drained, confused and angry.

It's so easy to say "sorry mate not my type" but very few women ever say this. So many wasted hours with someone who just wanted me to get over a breakup, to make an ex jealous, or, the worst one, is the practice of "just flirting to make her feel wanted and verify her choice in man". The last bit is a real gut punch to know you're just a toy in the woman you admire's real love interest and you had your ego crushed to enhance their relationship. Happened to me twice. All sorts of reasons women do this.

Net result is it becomes dangerous and difficult to approach - not because I lack balls but my eyes have been opened to the sheer Machiavellian nature of women and their disdain for others.

Men have bad traits, all of which are illegal or socially taboo. This stuff has been the stuff of real life for years and there isn't even names for it but it's affect on me has been long lasting and I think other men may recognise the dangerous nature of approaching women and where boldness and initiative can get you.

 

[sazc]

T If she's just spoiling the 5hit out of you, enjoy it and don't take it for granted.

Enjoy but DONT get deeply invested in her spoiling behavior. Understand that this early spoiling is likely to be part of the honeymoon phase.

Spoiling should only be done unconditionally. Otherwise it will turn into resentment when the other person doesn't reciprocate. Be watchful for 'the turn' - when you realize that your partner is resentful because they feel as if they have invested (spoiled) more than you have and you arent reciprocating.....because you didnt know that was part of the agreement.

If the turn occurs, realize that you may not be dealing with someone whom is mature enough for a quality relationship.

I always get weary when spoiling (smothering) occurs early/often