Turning 40

[sazc]

I agree with what you're saying Guru, but the only problem I have is with all of the testosterone, HGH, anti-hair loss chemicals, botox etc.

As I'm sure you already know, men aren't judged by the same beauty standards as women.. so I'd have thought that things like that are your personal preference. I don't think I buy into the idea that it really makes that much difference to women, assuming they're already dressing well, taking care of their health and everything else is in order.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though.. @BeExcellent @LiveYourDream @sazc I'd be interested to hear your opinions on this.

I cant speak for anyone but me. I'm the kind of female that cares more about personality than a full head of hair. Being bald/balding doesn't bother me as long as the head/hair style is maintained (no comb overs, etc). I am also the kind of female who is healthy, and I need my man to want to be healthy. Eat well, be active, be a normal weight, no beer belly, spare tire, etc. I'm not overweight, I don't expect him to be.

I actually am very attentive to my skin, which has really paid off. I don't care if my man is, but I would be impressed if he chose to take care of himself in that manner, as long as he is a "man". I like my man to be well dressed, but only when we go out. When we are in, I want to be able to be in pajama pants, pony tail, bra less, relaxed. I wouldn't dream of expecting more from him - but we are home, and should be comfortable, and should be snuggling on the couch watching tv.

One of my things is teeth, so he has to have good teeth, and he has to care about his smile and take care of it. I expect my man to be employed gainfully, the longer the more impressive. I expect him to be responsible. I expect him to have a solid handle on his money, have a savings and retirement.

aaand, I literally jus described myself....without testicles....with chesticles

@guru1000 has a great regimen/standards for himself, and I'm willing to bet his routine pays off. He feels great when he goes out, like a top notch man. This gets back to confidence and how feeling confident about yourself radiates to everyone around you, is attractive and draws them in. Whatever you do, find a routine that makes you feel confident. Identify where you feel weak and address these areas.

 

[sazc]

I actually agree with @guru1000 I have a sneaking suspicion that low testosterone levels in older men play a larger role in many health issues (outside of the ones that we all know about), as well as those spare tires, sleep quality, and even overall mood and feeling of well being. I dont think men realize this and I do think, if there were more studies done, men could opt to be on some sort of hormone replacement as well.

 

[SteR]

Okay this has started to become convoluted so I'll stick to the main point I'm trying to make:

I agree 100% with you that men need to take care of themselves. They need to stay in good shape, dress well, educate themselves, be financially successful etc. They have to strive to be their best selves in order to get the highest calibre women.

What I am against however, is going beyond and taking unnecessary risks. Things like getting a haircut, getting new clothes, eating well, none of these carry any risks.

Taking hormone therapy, taking hair-loss drugs, getting hair plugs, botox etc, all these things carry far greater risk, and they're not necessary. I'm sure some women may want these things, and in this case you may consider it worth the risk, but the idea you need to go through all of this just isn't true.

@sazc said it herself. Those things don't matter to her. I'm not saying that'll be the case for all women, but certainly the majority.

Finally, read this - Correlation is not causation. A decrease in testosterone levels is not necessarily due to ageing.

 

[sazc]

Okay this has started to become convoluted so I'll stick to the main point I'm trying to make:

I agree 100% with you that men need to take care of themselves. They need to stay in good shape, dress well, educate themselves, be financially successful etc. They have to strive to be their best selves in order to get the highest calibre women.

What I am against however, is going beyond and taking unnecessary risks. Things like getting a haircut, getting new clothes, eating well, none of these carry any risks.

Taking hormone therapy, taking hair-loss drugs, getting hair plugs, botox etc, all these things carry far greater risk, and they're not necessary. I'm sure some women may want these things, and in this case you may consider it worth the risk, but the idea you need to go through all of this just isn't true.

@sazc said it herself. Those things don't matter to her. I'm not saying that'll be the case for all women, but certainly the majority.

Finally, read this - Correlation is not causation. A decrease in testosterone levels is not necessarily due to ageing.

I hear you, these are your personal preferences. I am a BIG cheerleader that people need to do what makes them feel good. If you are insecure about your hairline and want hair plugs, more power to you. Hate your nose and want a nose job? Do it. We only have one life to live, we need to feel good. As long as you are being safe, go for it.

@SteR your article highlights the importance of ensuring you take your health seriously. This is the single most important thing all people ignore. Man, we got a 25 year old new hire who is so obese he feels as if walking 1/4 mile from building to building is a difficult chore. Nice guy, no game, and he has a long and difficult life ahead of him. idk why ppl do that to themselves.

 

[sazc]

I would argue that the best external (outside the brain) methods are exercise, building muscle, getting a good night's sleep, and eating right. And even then, you have to train your mind not to default to the biological survival urge to see the negative in everything.

It is SO important for you to have complete control over your passive and active thoughts. This is the one single thing that can make a WORLD of difference. Most people never get self introspective enough to even realize they put themselves down constantly and kill their own self esteem.

 

[guru1000]

Finally, read this - Correlation is not causation. A decrease in testosterone levels is not necessarily due to ageing.

Study is flawed, as it monitored T levels for three months to conclude that T levels did not decrease within those three months--and then erroneously broadly concluded that T levels do not decrease with age. There is a plethora of research which evinces that T levels drop gradually as we age. Whether that "gradual" be every six months, year, bi-annual, five or ten years is not established--but it is well established that T levels do drop with age.

Your remaining objections have already been addressed, adequately.

You should read Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz. He was a plastic surgeon who observed that most patients' sense of self-worth did not increase post-surgery, with the exception of those people disfigured by accidents. His book is about the best kind of empowerment, which comes from the mind, not from external applications.

I'm not discounting your argument outright because I believe many things can help in moderation. But it's easy to slide down the slope of cosmetic "improvements" without any improvement on one's personal happiness or sense of worth. Hair loss is a great example because it's joked about on TV and in movies, but you know and I know that a man with inner game and confidence does not need hair. Other deficiencies like testosterone can be improved through exercise.

I would argue that the best external (outside the brain) methods are exercise, building muscle, getting a good night's sleep, and eating right. And even then, you have to train your mind not to default to the biological survival urge to see the negative in everything.

Once could find self-worth and happiness in asceticism, dressed in rags, no hygiene, sleeping on the street, with no women. Yet, this is not what I would recommend.

This is a Don Juan forum. Men come here with the intent to learn how to seduce women. Whether that seduction is to induce sex or a worthwhile LTR, good men come searching for answers to improve themselves physically, psychologically, mentally, financially, and spiritually.

Notice, in all my posts, I do not advocate to improve only physically. Rather, I have hundreds of posts describing how to build a 7-figure net worth; how to augment mental paradigms and release strongholds and restrictions; how to use “frame” and understand value; how to invest into thinking greater than ourselves to transcend ostensibly debilitating circumstance.

No one in this forum could ever say that my recommendations were one-dimensional as I strongly encourage all to be well-rounded.

This thread is titled, “Turning 40,” where the OP is searching for answers in how to pull young (hopefully hot) women for the more mature man. In response to the aging process, I delineated methods that I personally have used with huge success to date 9s, 15-20 years my junior--consistently. My recommendation is not: "Think and these women will magically manifest at your door!"

My methods may be not be orthodox, but they work. I teach what works.

 

[BeExcellent]

I agree with what you're saying Guru, but the only problem I have is with all of the testosterone, HGH, anti-hair loss chemicals, botox etc.

As I'm sure you already know, men aren't judged by the same beauty standards as women.. so I'd have thought that things like that are your personal preference. I don't think I buy into the idea that it really makes that much difference to women, assuming they're already dressing well, taking care of their health and everything else is in order.

Please correct me if I'm wrong though.. @BeExcellent @LiveYourDream @sazc I'd be interested to hear your opinions on this.

It really depends on the woman. Young hot women typically want to be seen out with a prestigious man if they are going to date older.

Think Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas.

I work with and manage lots of physicians. I'm here to tell you men can be just as vain as women when they are looking to compete with young bucks. I know male doctors who have had face lifts, plastic surgery, skin peels, sclerotherapy and Coolsculpting not to mention dental procedures, skin care regimes and the whole 9 yards. For those in the entertainment industry it's particularly common. You are at a serious disadvantage NOT to do this sort of thing...but most people can afford it in that line of work too. Watch Botched sometime. Very interesting stuff (and notice what happens when you don't pick a good surgeon )

Coming from a medical background I am very conservative about surgical modifications. Thank God I have buxom natural boobs because the idea of a boob job scares me half to death. Are there tiny things I might tweak if utterly zero risk was involved? Maybe. But I love what I look like & wouldn't want some doctor to screw up my appearance. That would be my biggest worry.

As far as men go I like a man who is fit (what @guru1000 describes is perfect). I like a man who wears clothes well and don't care at all for the muscle head bulked up look. I like lean and I like stylish. A good head of hair is nice but there are lots of men like Sean Connery who are plenty sexy without it.

I've dated a model and men who are handsome enough to model. I've dated men who were not that universally attractive (and dumped the model to date/marry one - although he was nice looking...not as good looking but sexier to my taste than the model). I like the gray hair at the temple; I frankly like the gray hair on the chest. It says "seasoned" & "sexy".

Nose hair, ear hair and eyebrows that grow straight out should be groomed; and please guys... a bit of a manscape below the belt. Doesn't need to be ridiculous but cut the grass people!

ZZ Top is correct. Every girl is crazy for a Sharp Dressed Man. I know men in their 40s who routinely date hot 20 something women...I know men who tried that & went back to older women who are better lovers & have better intellect & wisdom. It really depends on what you most value.

Once you can get sex essentially on demand you start looking at what else matters. The hottest women can always get sex on demand. That's a given. They may or may not have sex whenever they could...certainly the higher quality women or higher value women don't...and thus they can afford to be quite choosy.

Become a man who experiences such abundance sexually that you start looking past sex at whatever is really important to you and your goals. The way you get to that point of abundance is by upping your appearance and presentation so you can pull as you see fit.

My ex husband is trim, fit, stylish & well spoken. He's a sophisticated man. He has no trouble pulling 20 something women (who love his worldly presentation.) He's also in his early 50s and largely bald. He is handsome but not stop the press handsome. But he's always impeccably groomed, dressed in a stylish but relaxed manner, trim shirt, good shoes, and people gravitate to him because of his cool easy demeanor. He doesn't have much money. It doesn't hamper him in the slightest with attracting women. He has a quick wit and makes it clear he is doing the selecting.

The artist I'm dating is similarly in his early 50's. He's short in fact (which some men think is a huge disadvantage...) but he has a very handsome face, thick hair he wears well, is sexy & doesn't care that in heels I'm taller than he is. He's perfectly confident in himself, at complete ease with a beautiful woman & has been there done that with the young girls. He does have the success piece that I so appreciate in a man's life experience although he is not formally educated. Rather he is well connected and self taught. Very ambitious.

He has a funkier style than lots of guys (think lots of artsy sterling rings) and is a little off beat & eclectic...but it fits who he is and he completely owns who he is.

My point TLDR is:

If you own who you are you are going to attract women. For the very hottest women you need to max out whatever it is you bring to the table & do so without apology or hesitation. Could DiCaprio pull ANY woman? Actually no. But certainly he could pull most, including models & actresses. If you aren't DiCaprio, whose celebrity is going to do much of the work for him, then do whatever you can within your means to improve your odds. Just don't tell your dates all about your man maintenance. Trust me we'd rather not know.

 

[SteR]

If you own who you are you are going to attract women. For the very hottest women you need to max out whatever it is you bring to the table & do so without apology or hesitation. Could DiCaprio pull ANY woman? Actually no. But certainly he could pull most, including models & actresses. If you aren't DiCaprio, whose celebrity is going to do much of the work for him, then do whatever you can within your means to improve your odds. Just don't tell your dates all about your man maintenance. Trust me we'd rather not know.

Very true.

But I want to try and highlight something here to emphasise the point I'm making: Let's take someone like.. Bruce Willis, in his prime years as an example. Something like this

Now imagine him juicing and with with a full head of hair. Do you seriously think there would be many woman who would turn down Bruce Willis A (no steroids, shaved/balding) over Bruce Willis B (ripped and full head of hair), with everything else being equal. Same character, same clothes, same status. So basically it's exactly the same guy but in slightly better physical shape and hair. Better yet: Let's imagine the whole process of him meeting a woman and going through the process of seduction in parallel unvierses.. so exactly the same flow of conversation, same gestures, everything. I don't believe there would be any woman that would dismiss one over the other.

The point I'm getting at is these extras... these things like hormones, botox, surgery are all such meaningless superficialities when confronted with the real person. A physical human person in front of you, with all their charisma, confidence, personality is like a radiating energy. Nobody's looking at that person or in conversation with them thinking "****, his body fat is 15% instead of 5%.. disgusting" or "look at those crows feet, how revolting"... they're completely swept up in the engagement and the exchange, especially as a woman engaging with a man. Confidence and charisma completely trumps these minor 'flaws'.

Now where I would advocate these things is if it fuels that particular person's confidence/charisma. If they're holding themselves back because because of some flaw then they need to address it. If someone had an ugly nose (as sazc mentioned earlier) or some other physical flaw that made them self-conscious then by all means get it corrected. But hopefully people can see it's not the physical flaw in itself that's causing the problem, it's the dent in that person's confidence caused by the belief that this physical flaw was ugly.

If that same person was able to be completely comfortable in their skin, without any concern then I highly doubt it'd make any difference to their attractiveness to the opposite sex.

So going back to what @guru1000 said, I'm not disagreeing with him using hormones and anti-hairloss treatment if that work's for him. Clearly he feels it impacts his confidence and abilities so he should go for it. But surely we can see the underlying issue is that it gives him confidence. Telling every guy that they should do the same, when others may not have the same insecurities, is what I disagree with.

 

[guru1000]

Physicality works on a point system. If you don’t meet the minimum threshold of a girl’s taste, you are out. Some tastes are unique and esoteric; most tastes are ubiquitous. What follows is the ubiquitous point system of attraction. I will use arbitrary numbers to demonstrate a point and then we can superimpose these numbers with that of, Francis Palmer, a renowned Beverly Hills plastic surgeon.

Looks are judged on its totality in an instant. We begin with a 10, and each “imperfection” counts as a subtraction from the 10:

• Bald: ½ pt
• Weak chin: ½ pt.
• Weak jaw: ½ pt.
• Asymmetrical nose: ½ pt.
• Asymmetrical facial aesthetic: 1pt.
• Thin lips: ½ pt
• Misaligned eyes: ½ pt.
• Cheek atrophy: 1 pt.
• Temple recession: 1 pt.
  
• Overweight: 3-5 pts.
• Average physique: 2 pts.
• Averagely Fit: 1 pt.

These subtractions are entirely arbitrary, used to demonstrate how attraction works. Attraction or dismissal happens in an instant after the subconscious mind analyzes the face/body at lightning speed.

Now here is Palmer’s facial pt. system:

THE “BIG THREE” DETERMINANTS OF YOUR FACE NUMBER:

Facial Feature Points Possible Comment

Cheeks 75 points Women: Full and round

Men: Narrow and angular

Eyebrows/Eyes: 10 points Women: High and arched Men: Flat and low

Lips: 7 points Both men and Women: Full and plump, with upper lip 75% as full as the lower lip

Total “Big Three” 92 points Out of a possible 100 points

I disagree with Palmer’s point designation of the cheek area, as I believe he overemphasizes the cheek region with motive to augment his collagen/fat injection practice.
While I don’t believe his point system is entirely inaccurate, what Palmer does demonstrate is that the totality of the individual’s facial appearance matters.

Now let’s go back to your example:

But I want to try and highlight something here to emphasise the point I'm making: Let's take someone like.. Bruce Willis, in his prime years as an example. Something like this

Based on this photo of Bruce Willis face, I would assign him an 8, assuming he had a perfectly lean and muscular physique. Now your question is:

Now imagine him juicing and with with a full head of hair. Do you seriously think there would be many woman who would turn down Bruce Willis A (no steroids, shaved/balding)

Let’s say Bruce Willis was not a celebrity (Willis as a celebrity is 10 by virtue of his celebrity status). If Willis had a full hear of hair, we could give him ½ pt addition. Accordingly, a 8.5.

In arguendo, let’s say Willis was testosterone deficient, and thus carried a sloppy physique, which brought him down to a 6. Willis meets a girl who seeks a minimum looks threshold of a 7. With a sloppy physique, Willis is a 6, and thus does not meet the girl's minimum looks threshold and gets dismissed as a contender.

Now, Willis desires to do something about his looks. Willis is 50 yo, and so takes a blood test and discovers he is T deficient. Willis enters TRT, and creates a lean and muscular physique, bringing him to a 8. Willis meets another girl who seeks a minimum looks threshold of a 7. Because Willis is an 8 while holding a lean and muscular physique, Willis meets the girl’s minimum threshold.

None of the foregoing is to be misunderstood that an older man must enter TRT, but rather many older men might be T deficient. If a man's total and free T are not deficient, TRT is not necessary.

Let's go on.

So going back to what @guru1000 said, I'm not disagreeing with him using hormones and anti-hairloss treatment if that work's for him. Clearly he feels it impacts his confidence and abilities so he should go for it. But surely we can see the underlying issue is that it gives him confidence. Telling every guy that they should do the same, when others may not have the same insecurities, is what I disagree with.

Here, you put the cart before the horse. What creates insecurity in a person is de-validation. What creates confidence is validation. If one is constantly getting devalued about a specific physical attribute, he will grow insecure in that attribute. If one is constantly getting validation about a specific physical attribute, he will grow confident in that attribute. Confidence cannot exist absent application and success in that application.

I actually never had an insecurity about my hair. I just preferred not to lose it when it began to thin, as I knew that everything matters in the totality. Now does this mean that bald guys cannot get 9s? No. It does mean bald guys might take a 1/2 pt hit or so from the totality, with the exclusion, of course, being a bald guy who had an incredibly shaped head which looked better without hair.

As to the physique, I believe and teach men to maximize their attributes. The easiest method of maximizing one’s appearance is the physique.

SteR, does any of this make sense to you or do you still feel you are in an alternative universe?

 

[BeExcellent]

To simplify the matter @SteR let me explain it this way. The problem with your Bruce Willis analogy is that you are looking at it from the perspective of Bruce Willis.

That is the mistake you are making. As in you are NOT the arbiter of what attracts another person; you are not the arbiter of someone else's vanity (what is important or attractive to someone else.)

Now. To be fair most men do not date models. Most men also have no idea just how vain and image driven the fashion industry is. Models are valued only for their beauty. Even that beauty is subjective. In other words let's say Dolce and Gabbana is doing a runway show in NYC. They need 20 models. So they call up Ford or Elite (the two top flight agencies) and order 60 women. Those women go over to D & G, line up and one by one get an up or down vote.

Yes. No, too pale. No, boobs too big, Yes, No, hate the hair, Yes, No, too many freckles, etc., etc., etc., until 20 girls are selected. The other 40 are turned away. This is 60 of the most beautiful women in the world picked apart on the tiniest things...subjective things at that.

So, it ought to be somewhat apparent that women who are judged so harshly on their appearance day in and day out might be pretty vain. They might want equal physical perfection in a man and might be dismissive based on small subtle things that a man like @guru1000 is actually aware of and paying careful attention to.

I'll give you an example from my own life to illustrate further how your premise falls apart. I'm a hot girl. When I was in my 20s I ran 40 miles a week, had an athletic swimsuit model 5'6" build and wore a size 2 dress with bust/waist/hip measurements of 36:24:36. That is better than a perfect hour glass figure. I had very long thick blond hair, 10% body fat, a great personality and was smart, funny & quite popular socially. I always had tons of men wanting dates

But....in grade school the class bully had tripped me. I had fallen face first on my class 5 overbite permanent front teeth, cracking them. This required root canals. The dentist did not pack the root canals properly so over the next 18 years through orthodontics, high school & college my natural front teeth slowly yellowed.

It happened gradually so I didn't really notice. My family never stressed cosmetic beauty so I never realized it was an issue...and I was still dating top notch men so I didn't see an issue.

Until 2 things happened in very close proximity to each other. First, my oldest male friend, always platonic, said to me over drinks one night "Can I ask you something?" I said "Sure".

He then said: "I am sick and tired of all my buddies asking what's up with your teeth & whether or not you are bulimic or have an eating disorder (apparently bulimics get dis colored teeth from vomitting constantly...and I was quite thin.)

I was horrified. Apparently everyone but me saw my darker front teeth (and they weren't all that much darker) and judged me as having an issue I didn't have...the very next week I was in NYC and on a date with a cosmetic dentist (complete coincidence) who was on faculty at NYU as well as in private practice. He asked me during dinner what was up with my teeth. I said well obviously something!

Needless to say my dentist lover (we dated about a year) fixed the problem, and since we were dating (he often dated models & had models for patients), he was extraordinarily picky about correcting my teeth just so, as my teeth were a direct reflection on him and his vanity. He did a great job (and yes I paid him family discount but still expensive.)

So it had nothing to do with me. I didn't know I had a problem that leapt out at men because plenty of men were asking me out or wanted to date so I didn't see any issue.

So what guru does is as much to appeal to elite women as it is for himself. He can't know if some woman might pass him over for thinning hair or a brow furrow. So he chooses to take impeccable care of his appearance to have the most choices he can with his target group.

There are men at SS who won't date women with big hands, who won't date women with second toes longer than big toes, who won't date women with tattoos, etc. We all pick potential lovers based on our own unique criteria. Women pick according to their lists of physical criteria too.

Guru is simply stating his method of casting the widest net possible among the choosiest and most sought after of women. Some will DQ him based on age as it is. He knows that so he makes effort to minimize adverse disqualification based on age.

I know that was long but I hope it makes more sense.

 

[guru1000]

Excellent post BE.

I also forgot to mention that naturally I am a good looking guy (better looking than Bruce Willis) and am very financially successful.

Given the above, why would I have the "need" to be focalized on my physicality to such a degree? Think about it.

 

[BeExcellent]

Know why my handle is BeExcellent? That is what I stand for & what I aspire to in every facet of life.

Guru is the same in that way. He expects the best and makes the effort to create and warrant the best in all aspects of his life.

Now I'd acknowledge that having the blessing of natural genetics and good looks is good fortune...but how you look after yourself is anything but an accident.

And how well you care for yourself over time translates into how well you age.

 

[SteR]

I think it's best we just agree to disagree here. I've said my piece. This thread is going round in circles.

 

[guru1000]

What I refuse to believe is that you need to go down the route of surgery/hormone therapy etc to land beautiful women. Simple as that.

In the broad context of this statement you put forth, absent qualifiers, you don’t.

But, in our discussion, if we were to add some qualifiers such as:

Men in their 40s, 50s who are not celebrities who want to date top models in their early to mid 20s need to ensure that their physically is at its absolute best to possibly be in the radar to date these type of women.

I provided mature men with a c0cktail of possibilities to optimize their appearance. Choose all, choose some, choose none. Ultimately, the DJ will choose how high in the sexual marketplace he wishes to position himself, compete, and date.

Then why are you?

Am I surprised this point flew beyond you? Three words: Because appearance matters. Each component as well as the totality of your appearance matter.

Want to forgo hair? Go ahead.

Want to forego an incredible physique with declining T levels? Go ahead.

Want to forego tighter skin as your skin loses elasticity? Be my guest.

Come back to this thread in 15 years, and let us know how you are doing with top 9s in their early-mid 20s. Yet, I have a hunch that at a ripe, prime 32 yo, you still don't date these kind of women. So I'm not sure which horse you have in this race, when you are in a different race altogether.

 

[SteR]

Come back to this thread in 15 years, and let us know how you are doing with top 9s in their early-mid 20s. Yet, I have a hunch that at a ripe, prime 32 yo, you still don't date these kind of women. So I'm not sure which horse you have in this race, when you are in a different race altogether.

I wasn't going to rise to the bait, but on this occasion I will.

The whole reason I'm so vehement about my beliefs is because I AM dating this calibre of women. I've dated models, strippers, you name it. I've also see how how these women behave and how insecure and sick of being judged by their appearance they are. In my personal experience rather than all this bull**** conjecture, these girls have cared even less about my appearance than any other girls I've dated.

The only problem, and this I openly admit, is that I'm not a 40+ male. But I do have experience, which is why I'm trying to get my points across.

 

[guru1000]

We are in a marketplace; a sexual marketplace (SMP). Where you are positioned in the SMP is exactly who you will attract (give or take a pt).

If you don't meet a woman's minimum looks threshold, you are disqualified. Period. No amount of game will change her position. And the higher her SMV, the higher her looks threshold is. There are outliers, but we are discussing in how to consistently attract, not how to gamble.

You allege you date these type of women. Did it ever occur to you that you might be a good-looker yourself, so relations with these women organically develop?

Your point of reference collapses when you fail to acknowledge that as you age, your looks will depreciate and the age gap between these women and yourself will widen, pushing you out of their radar.

 

[SteR]

Look, I understand the point you're making. Never have I denied that taking care of your appearance is important - I completely agree with you.

But there's so much more to attraction than physical appearance, especially with women, which is why I keep harping on about applying female beauty standards to men. Maybe you're talking about internet dating here, where you're explicitly judged by photos? I don't know. In that case, you're completely correct.

But if you're meeting these women face to face, you know as well as I do that these factors aren't as significant. Your dress, status, charisma, presence dwarfs everything. I'd be telling men to work on improving those things rather than forking out money for hormones and surgery - they're not necessary.

You say 'If you don't meet a woman's minimum looks threshold, you are disqualified', well that's not true.. look at all the super wealthy old men dating young models.

If you want to talk about this further then I suggest we take this to PM. We've both laid out our opinions and I feel this is turning into a head-to-head rather than a discussion

 

[guru1000]

I prefer to keep this discussion right here. Our exchange is not a personal investment for me, but rather an explication to all mature (and young) men who are reading, to accentuate the significance of appearance.

Sexual Market Value = Looks + Status + Wealth

You say 'If you don't meet a woman's minimum looks threshold, you are disqualified', well that's not true.. look at all the super wealthy old men dating young models.

Even using this hyperbole as an example, doesn't alter that the superwealthy by virtue of their wealth hold high SMV and thus can be in the radar of women with high SMV.

But if you're meeting these women face to face, you know as well as I do that these factors aren't as significant. Your dress, status, charisma, presence dwarfs everything

What men can directly control is their appearance, which includes style and their physicality. What men cannot directly control with reasonable assurance is becoming a celebrity or billionaire. Hence, why I don't solicit to just become a celebrity or billionaire.

SteR, I have yet to see any practical advice which you have offered to men in their 40s and 50s to attract model-type women in their 20s other than just become a man of celebrity status. Wonder why? Because you have zero practical experience as a mature man.

 

[SteR]

SteR, I have yet to see any practical advice which you have provided to men in their 40s and 50s to attract model-type women in their 20s other than just become a man of celebrity status. Would you like to know why? Because you have zero practical experience as a mature man.

I've echoed what's already been said by people in this thread: That a man needs to improve himself in every facet of his life.

If a man does this ie. If he's physically fit, he dresses exceptionally well, he's successful in his career and has good finances and great social skills then he will be in position to date the women we're speaking of.

Adding hormone therapy, surgery, anti-hairloss.. all of this.. the difference made will be negligible to a woman if the above is already taken care of.

You say I have no experience of this as a mature man, maybe so as I'm not in my 40s yet, but I AM dating the exact women we're discussing here, so my experiences with them and their opinions are valid. Stop trying to dismiss my views.

 

[guru1000]

You say I have no experience of this as a mature man, maybe so as I'm not in my 40s yet, but I AM dating the exact women we're discussing here, so my experiences with them and their opinions are valid. Stop trying to dismiss my views.

Ok, let's not dismiss your views and take the position that you do have have personal experience about the specific discussion we are having.

Answer these questions then:

Are you bald or significantly balding?
Do you have low T levels?
How old do you look?