Every Woman Left On The Market Is Fvcked Up

[mrgoodstuff]

Quality is relative! Some may view lower quality in looks, others in reciprocated love, and others in different acts. The problem is that most men who are in LTR or marriage CHANGE their definition of quality to fit the relationship, hence why women have so many options. Once hypnotized by the sweet spot between her legs, his will accept A, B, C, and D instead of only accepting A from a woman

Women know they have this power and exploit it to the max. A quality woman will test the waters, but if a man retains his frame (which most do not), they will come to a compromise that works for both parties. If the man loses frame, this "quality" woman will be gradually shaped by her weak man into a low quality woman.

So, essentially, it is the weak men which are shaping the behaviors of women, allowing for bad behavior in hopes for constant access to the valuable resource between her legs. She keeps taking as long as he keeps giving...

It is not about women, it is human nature....

Can a man re-gain a frame after losing it and compromising his principles? IE: he folded and accepts A, B, C and D from a woman and he wants to get back to only allowing A...?

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Youre ignoring the time function. Yes, even the lowest quality dregs will act right for a guy they really like, but they simply cannot keep up the act over time.



True, but if and only if:

1. You can overcome your social conditioning and social pressure for monogamy

2. You can overcome your biological and/or psychological desire for monogamy

Red-pill propaganda? That the desires and pressures for monogamy are determined by 'irrational' forces.

How about the thought that a LTR is a rational form of excellence worthy of aspiring to?

It's all a matter of interpretation isn't it?

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Quality is relative! Some may view lower quality in looks, others in reciprocated love, and others in different acts. The problem is that most men who are in LTR or marriage CHANGE their definition of quality to fit the relationship, hence why women have so many options. Once hypnotized by the sweet spot between her legs, his will accept A, B, C, and D instead of only accepting A from a woman

Women know they have this power and exploit it to the max. A quality woman will test the waters, but if a man retains his frame (which most do not), they will come to a compromise that works for both parties. If the man loses frame, this "quality" woman will be gradually shaped by her weak man into a low quality woman.

So, essentially, it is the weak men which are shaping the behaviors of women, allowing for bad behavior in hopes for constant access to the valuable resource between her legs. She keeps taking as long as he keeps giving...

It is not about women, it is human nature....

Yes, men need to 'man-up'. The more women have easy access to it, the more their behavior will deteriorate.

There seems to be two paths out of the quagmire open to men; take the 'red-pill', which is an extremely individualist approach, or be both individually and socially minded by 'backtracking' to a more good old-fashioned approach. Taking the first approach will do nothing to improve society..... nor yourself I suspect. It comes down to your worldview; whether you consider yourself an isolated individual, or a social animal. And then whether you want to rule your passions, or have them rule you. And this then makes you wonder where true individuality lies.

 

[BeExcellent]

Can a man re-gain a frame after losing it and compromising his principles? IE: he folded and accepts A, B, C and D from a woman and he wants to get back to only allowing A...?

Yes but it is an uphill losing battle where you as a man must be prepared unequivocally to walk away. Most people (not just men) who accept unacceptable behavior (however it may be defined) do so gradually and in order not to "rock the boat". As a result they become too weak to walk away, so it's over.

The longer the duration the more unlikely recovering frame becomes.

If a man has slipped into weakness and supplication or leadership failure it is very hard to recover for a number of reasons including:

1. It erodes your own self esteem and leadership in the relationship in direct proportion to the duration of the matter.

2. It erodes the woman's respect entirely over time again in direct proportion to duration

3. It creates an unwanted relationship dynamic that gives rise to anger and resent on both sides: boss/subordinate; parent/child; teacher/student etc. with the man in the lesser role.

Once the relationship has devolved into an unhealthy dynamic over time the only thing that has any hope of working is empowerment and independent action where you are going to do "X" no matter the consequences. And you must do it over and over for a duration to establish a new dynamic.

But most men are by then too weak, numb, or depressed to take such consistent action so the woman (now fully in the lead role) must act.

That action is almost always a break up or divorce. Or I suppose cheating...(It never occurred to me to cheat so that option doesn't initially enter my mind - I edited to add).

This is why the LTR is the biggest sh1t test of all. To maintain a good LTR (only kind worth having) you must lead forever. This is why inner game is key. It must be WHO YOU ARE.

Just like the woman trying to entice a man cannot keep up a ruse forever (hiding her character flaws) nor can a weak man pose as a leader forever without his frame slipping. And thusly we arrive once again at self improvement to avoid the above results.

 

[Tenacity]

Guys, excellent discussion in this thread and Legend thanks for that analysis.

Okay, so I guess this will be a "Tenacity Personal Thread Part 2" after the Anger Issues Thread lol. This will probably go 20 pages as well.

Now, I've spent the entire day doing some soul-searching, reviewing previous analysis on me personally and I've been actually talking to some prior plates AND a major plate I JUST LOST....

And my conclusion is this when it comes to the Looks, Personality, and Finances situation:

- Looks: I'm a solid 7
- Finances: I'm a solid 7
- Personality/Internal World/Internal Game: I'm a 3 and didn't know it

I didn't know it. I thought I was a solid 6 this entire time internally but looking back over the previous years, speaking with prior plates, and having just LOST the major plate I had (the one I spent Christmas and NYE with), my Personality/Internal World shyt is fvcked up.

So I've got to fix this.

Guru was trying to tell me this shyt back in September in this post here and this post here. But I wouldn't listen, NOT because I'm not willing to do the work to fix what's wrong, but because I honestly didn't think there was anything wrong! I thought he was just talking shyt!

But a major plate I just lost.....literally REPEATED, word for word, the same shyt that Guru said and the same shyt that Legend said. Literally........word for word.

Then when I look back at other plates I've lost, I have lost decent women over just stupid a.ss shyt my "Internal World" would be centered on. I would randomly go the fvck off, for nothing, literally nothing.

Listen.....I've got to fix this and I'm going to fix it. I fixed every fvcking thing else in my life and I'm going to fix this shyt. Sorry Poon King and Deesade, I want a committed LTR with a chance of a legal relationship (kids and/or possibly marriage).

That's been my entire goal this whole time and I'm about to complete the final work on myself to fix my issues to bring this in. Then I would have achieved just about everything I sought out in life, I already have the Career/Finances down, the Fitness down, it's time to get this part down.

 

[BeExcellent]

And there gentlemen ^^ is humility & self reflection.

Congratulations @Tenacity

You will get where you are going.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

That's been my entire goal this whole time and I'm about to complete the final work on myself to fix my issues to bring this in. Then I would have achieved just about everything I sought out in life, I already have the Career/Finances down, the Fitness down, it's time to get this part down.

Herein is going to be your hardest battle. Because it is YOU against YOU. But if I could do it, then so can you.

Begin with forgiveness. This is key. Forgive everyone who ever fvcked you, and let them go. Release. This does not mean you need to connect with them. You forgive them for you, nor for them. Then when you are done forgiving those who wronged you, and you feel a little lighter, then forgive yourself.

 

[Poon King]

Sorry Poon King and Deesade, I want a committed LTR with a chance of a legal relationship (kids and/or possibly marriage).

That's been my entire goal this whole time and I'm about to complete the final work on myself to fix my issues to bring this in. Then I would have achieved just about everything I sought out in life, I already have the Career/Finances down, the Fitness down, it's time to get this part down.

Good for you baby girl.

I was honestly on the edge of my seat waiting to see what you would decide to do with your life.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Tenacity acts humble...

Did the sun rise in the west this morning?

You should print out your post and read it every day. I've seen many times when people gave you advice here and you blew it off or became belligerent.

I'm going to go check the news to see if the pope became a baptist overnight...

-Augustus-

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I never said its irrational. Im saying which conditions must hold true for Deesade's statement to be applicable. As long as you desire LTR, its not remotely applicable.

Sure, I just wanted to make the point that the desire for a LTR can be perfectly rational, and not arising from social pressure/ conditioning... unconscious biological drives etc. I think the 'red pill' worldview is too often driven by a 'hermenuetics of suspicion', where something on the surface is always to be interpreted by some 'reality' underneath.

 

[btownbuck2012]

There's also the fact that life has ups and downs, this is something no man can protect for. The reality is that unless the woman actually wants to help and support a man in a down time(extremely rare but I know some that get into relationships with disabled men etc), the woman will lose respect and probably leave. Life is not as black and white as alpha/beta or weak/strong.

I wonder if you would consider guys like Bill Burr and Tom Leykis to be weak men. They have achieved so much throughout many ups and downs but they still don't look too kindly on how they were treated by women during the downs.

This reminds me of the Teddy Roosevelt Quote: "Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

What you wrote above is so true and I think you're right on the money. The whole if you're alpha she'll stay and if you're beta she'll stray is way too black and white type cookie cutter thinking. When you're on a mission in life there is going to be ups and downs and gut punches from the universe. Some people aren't able to recover from them (http://imgur.com/gallery/7BlxP). When I was a kid I used to think that if you only worked hard enough you would get whatever it is you wanted to achieve in life. The reality of the situation is that you've got to get lucky, too. Your health could go, someone could screw you over at work, your finances could be lost trying to recover from a job loss or an illness or divorce. Mental illness could set it. There's a whole slew of sh*t that could get you.

My grandpa who was a world war 2 vet, a man who stormed the beaches of Normandy always told my mom that if you've got a few good friends in your life, a number you could probably count on one hand, then you should consider yourself lucky. Like you said in your post, most people drop you when things get rough, especially women. I had this happen to me recently. I had a good job as a manager for a data and analytics company in NYC and a year and a half LTR. She broke up with me because I caught her screwing around and it really hurt. My work performance suffered and I eventually got canned. All the "friends" I had at work could have cared less. I was born and raised in the midwest and went out to NYC on my own and it turns out all the friends I thought I had made in two years meant nothing when a hard time hit me. I was still alone. After I got fired I called her up and asked if I could just talk to her as she was the person I was closest to since I've been in the city. She simply said "Leave me alone". The cruelty and coldness of the situation still hurts.

 

[The Duke]

We're back to the quality thing again. You really don't get it.

I'm telling you that I had three women last year that I consider exclusive/marriage type quality. I'm sure when other guys dated them, and didn't get what they wanted from those girls, they had very different opinions.

For example, I also dated another girl that fvcked me around. She fvcked a lot of men around, by what I gathered. Yet, I know she took cooking lessons after her last boyfriend demanded it. She made a fuss about coming to my place, but would go to London to meet him. I don't consider her "low-quality, 99% trash". I considered her interest in me to not be sufficient, and just move along.

Bethechange's post is just one big DHV about how special she is. Get over yourselves, already.

Are we going to talk objectively about things, or not?

That's right, your explanation doesn't make much sense. First you say a woman's quality is only her looks. Then you go on a tangent about women doing/not doing what you wanted in an attempt to explain yourself. So is pleasing you a 2nd quality you look for? Earlier you said there was only one and that was "looks".

So what was it with those 3 women that made you consider them as marriage material? What were their qualities that made you say that?

Or are you saying that a woman's behavior is fluid/dependent on interest level in a certain man and if it pleases you, then that is marriage material?

 

[Steady Eddie]

Yes, men need to 'man-up'. The more women have easy access to it, the more their behavior will deteriorate.

There seems to be two paths out of the quagmire open to men; take the 'red-pill', which is an extremely individualist approach, or be both individually and socially minded by 'backtracking' to a more good old-fashioned approach. Taking the first approach will do nothing to improve society..... nor yourself I suspect. It comes down to your worldview; whether you consider yourself an isolated individual, or a social animal. And then whether you want to rule your passions, or have them rule you. And this then makes you wonder where true individuality lies.

A few months back I was on the bus and I overheard a conversation a woman was having on the phone with a friend.
She was talking about the date of a mutual friend of theirs. This mutual friend had complained to the woman on the bus about the fact her date didn't pay for her meal. But when asked why he hadn't she confessed she'd told him, she could pay for herself.
The woman on the bus blamed her friend for not allowing her date to pay. She said their mutual friend wanted to be strong and independent, but that she was her own worst enemy in that regard.

The red pill informs us despite what she'd said, she wanted him to pay for the date. It's called 'the burden of performance' in red pill parlance and it always falls on the man to assume.
This example is common to all women. They present a false image of themselves (quite literally) and hope men will figure out\accept the underlying reality.

The red pill depicts this reality. It informs us of his role, her role, her motivations and his own and the psychological, environmental and biological processes that underpin them. The red pill is simply the truth.

Although I'm aware some people can't handle the truth.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Hmmm... I think if truth had a color it would be white. For according to Newton, white is the combination of all colors [though I think Goethe had something to say about that], Which is to say there is an element of truth running through everything, red and blue.... and green etc. It is the analytical frame of mind that would reduce truth to one abstract Reality, to the way we would represent Reality to ourselves clearly and distinctly in cognition. Why we do this is that it creates the illusion of power over the world. In reality though this just impoverishes our world by reducing it to something like a bubble. And this is the world we largely live in today, a bubble of technology and ideology [take your pick].

In contrast to the analytical frame is imaginative synthesis... though more a complement if you are thinking in synthetic terms. There are now many aspects to truth, many interpretations, or rather, there are other considerations counter-balancing truth such as the other transcendentals of unity, the good life, and beauty. The task is to combine them in a coherent manner.

The reality is people want a simple truth they can believe in. Nescience, negative capability, or an enlightened skepticism, is more difficult to handle. True freedom is freedom of the mind, but, as some psychologists have argued, most feel the need to escape from that.

 

[fastlife]

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Regardless of family background and other traits. Self-serving as it might be, post-wall women's warnings about the nature of the youngest (hottest) women is not totally off base.

The post that @fastlife wrote is quite true. It's basically about women's social mores (and the malleability thereof) and how to "see" what is really going on. We would see it constantly at the nightclub. The "quality" good girl teacher or whatever by day & something more racy at night.

I think you are seeing the same thing just from a different angle. The PHD dating Ray Ray is not that different from the sheltered "good girl" doing relative dumpster diving for ONS.

Some women are rescuer types & some date down. This has to do with self esteem issues usually. Sheltered girls get curious sometimes. These behaviors occur most frequently in the 21-25 age range based on my own observations in the nightclub business.

But many women will come back to the core values they were raised with after an experimental phase. Whether that is acceptable or not a man will have to decide for himself.

The quality women have standards to come back to and will go on to lead more stable lives than the hot messes out there.

I think what you have to look at though, especially for 'quality women' who down the lines will probably make pretty decent wives by all appearances is: When their currency for male attention was highest, what kind of me did she spend this currency on?

Was it the guy who worked on himself and had actual credentials for long term stability a la @Tenacity? No, almost universally not. I know so many super high quality, solid, non-pushover guys that can't get a girl in that age group to save their life.

But let's take Ray Ray and Pookie or the frat star or the mysterious guy at the bar whose obviously a little too smooth, a little too comfortable sexualizing, who obfuscates and jokes with them and who they've seen leaving that bar with other girls. What do these guys offer them, specifically, that's so valuable?

• Absence of social pressure: Do you think any of these guys care about the things she worries about being judged on and why would she have to care about their judgments, anyway?
• They don't care: This sounds a little counter-intuitive--but imagine the reality of a beautiful girl in 2017 America: Everybody cares. If they post they're sad on FB, 20 guys will ask them why? If they stop responding to the guy on Tinder, they'll get questions like, "What did I do wrong? Please talk to me." If they sleep with a guy, he'll be insanely jealous and clingy. If the post a pic out of town on IG, 5 guys will ask when they'll be back it town.
• They're not easily impressed: Whether they're too dumb, jaded, or oversexed to see what a remarkable gal she is, this, again, makes him seem insanely valuable.
• They offer a definite narrative: The girl knows exactly what to expect and has seen movies, read books, etc. that make this narrative socially acceptable & possibly glamorous.
• The offer uncertainty & intense emotions: OMG someone pulled a gun on Ray Ray! OMG Billy Fratstar got drunk and threw the keg through the window! OMG if my mom knew I was seeing him! What is he about? Most girls and most guys have boring, structured lives they constantly fantasize about escaping.

And we're not talking about low quality, emotionally disordered girls, who of course go for these same guys as well. We're talking about the creme de la creme, who have absolute choice. We're living in the absolute freeest feminine primary sexual market place the world has ever seen: Antiobiotics have just about eliminated the threats of STDs; Birth control and government subsidization have just about eliminated any real consequences of unplanned pregnancy; Changing social mores and the disintegration of community have eliminated any longterm social risks for slvtting it up; Social media has allowed unlimited access to male suitors. And the market has spoken. Almost universally IME, at least for the 18-22 y/o age group (older than that and, obviously, their priorities have shifted a little bit).

I wish I could say just be a quality guy and a quality woman will appear--but it doesn't work that way. Being a quality guy might keep her around, but upfront it won't get her interested long enough to stick around to find out. And for the record, I do think there are 'quality women,' as far as there are women who are better behaved socially, generally kinder, more moral (where sex isn't involved), more selective, etc.--but, sexually, probably way more liberal than any relationship-minded guy would be comfortable with (fortunately, he'll probably never know).

As for the OP, @Tenacity could find higher quality by approaching IRL in environments where his types of girls are more abundant. Most of the hottest girls don't bother with OLD, too much validation already. Most girls might not like the idea of dating someone 10 years older and might filter them out entirely, though in person arousal can take care of that. In person, you can largely bypass the logical (largely hypothetical) filters girls have in place for who they would and wouldn't date.

 

[Tenacity]

This thread has been excellent. This "Market" thread along with Poon King's current "Market" thread is sparking the honest, quality, REAL discussions that we need to be having around here that help guys (including myself) going forward.

I just wanted to quickly add that while my desire for an LTR is here, I'm still uncertain on marriage. The entire structure still makes no logical sense for me for a variety of reasons:

- Women are still unpredictable and can be completely uncompromising if they want to be.

- We still have a No Fault Divorce Amendment, which means the woman can leave at any time for any reason or for NO reason

- I've built my wealth over the last 10 years and have gotten into a great position to continue building great wealth going forward. I did this WITHOUT HER. But getting married puts all of this at risk with her potentially getting a slice without having helped me build a damn thing.

To be 100% honest, the only SERIOUS thing I am strongly considering is making a baby with a woman. That's pretty much the main serious thing and I know that without "marriage", this becomes a little shakey to manage, but I still haven't figured all of the chinks out of this yet.

But I just don't see how marriage makes any sense for me personally. Plus, in addition to all of the listings above, if I get married at 38, am I really planning on staying with this SAME WOMAN until I die at let's say 88? 50 years? Just her? I don't know about that, and that's not just the 33 year old Tenacity saying that, I just don't know about that at all, PERIOD.

But as far as LTRs go? Yes, I want to do committed relationships that let's say last on average of 6 months to 3 years in duration. You can pretty much get all of the benefits of a marriage, such as deeper connections, closer ties, support system, more sex, etc.........but if the relationship goes downhill, if one doesn't love the other anymore, THEN YOU BOTH LEAVE. She doesn't have a right to my assets.

When it comes to the kid, yes, I have the child support system but again that's still in relation specifically to THE KID. I want to take care of my KID, I do not want to take care of another Adult. And I fundamentally mean that, I DO NOT want to take care of a Woman.

 

[TheFixer14]

I have been noticing more and more just how unsatisfactory most women are to me.

I really don't want to delve into this too deeply. But I believe that's why having a purpose is so important. Women come and go. But you are the only constant. I rather not engage in dating and even be celibate for a bit if it means that I can use that energy on myself and maximize my results.

I don't believe that you can truly be great and just be worrying aabout women. I doubt that Bill Gates was hitting the (disco) clubs when he was developing Microsoft.

Most women I see lately just fall into that basic b!tch category. I didn't care two years ago. But the older that I get the less engaged I become in them. Yeah I could fvck them. But the whole dating process just sucks and for what? A few minutes of bliss?

Something funny happened to me today. I was in Barnes and Noble and this decent looking woman was looking at a manga that I had just started watching the anime of. I was curious about what she had to say so we spoke. I wasn't even looking to pick her up or anything.

She spoke so damn much and just ****ted on some of my favorite anime (though we both like Attack on Titan). I don't even know why I asked her for her number, probably just force of habit. Anyway she said I could add her on facebook so I just pretended to write her name down LOL.

So, the women that have common interests with me aren't that appealing, and the women who don't aren't that appealing. I supposed that I am ****ed on both ends.

I think the key is to not take women seriously. One thing that MGTOW taught me was that they are basically over sized children. The government certainly set it up that way.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

What's in it for me?

You may be able to have a LEGIT "HELP MATE" for life. You get sex when and how you want to, the highest amplified feminine attention, cooked for, spend money on you, etc
don't have to worry about diseases or scheduling conflicts.

I'm sure you love women for their mind.

Some of us do. And some of them are good thinkers in their own right. Some women are extremely loyal to their man and will fight for him.

Attractive girls, great chemistry, very high-interest.

All of the other myriad of positives (same old sh*t):

• Good cooks (or at least willing in one case)
• Reliable
• Solid personal life
• etc etc

Those should be a bare minimum, as well as she fvcks you at least nightly. It's not if she FEELS like it, she gives it to you because she loves you and you are her man and she doesn't want you to go without. Selfless like that.

That's the fantasy many of us still hold onto.
[/QUOTE]

 

[TheFixer14]

You may be able to have a LEGIT "HELP MATE" for life. You get sex when and how you want to, the highest amplified feminine attention, cooked for, spend money on you, etc
don't have to worry about diseases or scheduling conflicts.




Some of us do. And some of them are good thinkers in their own right. Some women are extremely loyal to their man and will fight for him.


Those should be a bare minimum, as well as she fvcks you at least nightly. It's not if she FEELS like it, she gives it to you because she loves you and you are her man and she doesn't want you to go without. Selfless like that.

That's the fantasy many of us still hold onto.

[/QUOTE]
This is a good romantic fantasy story.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I have been noticing more and more just how unsatisfactory most women are to me.

I really don't want to delve into this too deeply. But I believe that's why having a purpose is so important. Women come and go. But you are the only constant. I rather not engage in dating and even be celibate for a bit if it means that I can use that energy on myself and maximize my results.

I don't believe that you can truly be great and just be worrying aabout women. I doubt that Bill Gates was hitting the (disco) clubs when he was developing Microsoft.

Most women I see lately just fall into that basic b!tch category. I didn't care two years ago. But the older that I get the less engaged I become in them. Yeah I could fvck them. But the whole dating process just sucks and for what? A few minutes of bliss?

Something funny happened to me today. I was in Barnes and Noble and this decent looking woman was looking at a manga that I had just started watching the anime of. I was curious about what she had to say so we spoke. I wasn't even looking to pick her up or anything.

She spoke so damn much and just ****ted on some of my favorite anime (though we both like Attack on Titan). I don't even know why I asked her for her number, probably just force of habit. Anyway she said I could add her on facebook so I just pretended to write her name down LOL.

So, the women that have common interests with me aren't that appealing, and the women who don't aren't that appealing. I supposed that I am ****ed on both ends.

I think the key is to not take women seriously. One thing that MGTOW taught me was that they are basically over sized children. The government certainly set it up that way.

A lot of us where just fcking and possibly catching feelings without thinking or analyzing the entire interaction. I think you need to go back to the basic male nature of getting pvssy and fvcking. Of course ensure it doesn't distract from the things that are important to you in life.