How do you explain when guys do everything wrong but still get the girl?

[Trump]

I know at least two cases in the last few months.

In one case the guy literally turned up at the girls door crying after hearing she slept with someone else and proceeded to get comforted by her as she told him she just "wasn't ready for a relationship"

A month later they were in a relationship and have been for 4 months now with seemingly no issues.

The second case was similar but this girl was actually showing me the sappy texts this dude was sending her and laughing about it and just wanted him to "go away"

They were official a couple of weeks later and are now looking for a place together, again doesn't seem to be any issues.

Question is, I see this more often than you would think, guys who are a a point where all of us would say "Dude, give it up, it's OVER, YOU HAVE ZERO CHANCE" And the guy has no frame whatsoever and is firing off every beta move there is.

And then a few weeks later they are with that girl and my mind gets blown.

Obviously this doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen quite a bit.

What's the deal there

Maybe the guy wired $100,000 to her savings account in each case.

Come on bro, who the hell knows what happened. We teach here not to give up your self respect for any girl or relationship. Some guys think it's worth it because they get the relationship perks. Personally I'll give a lot on the small things but never on big things.

 

[hockeyfreak79]

It's just their turn. That is all.

 

[BeExcellent]

you are correct, since the pros have ratios of like 50% that's 20% away from where you could reach so aiming for 30% is setting your sights too low

Not really. Everybody here says "hot" women.

Ok. Anybody can get laid or get a girlfriend if you lower your standards.

Pro baseball players will clean up batting against minor league or college or high school pitchers. I'm not talking about lower standards.

Every man here can date if he looks far enough below a 7+

The hottest women have the most choices. So hot women pick based primarily on their own preferences and there is only so much a man can do about that.

Do dam sure do what you can about that! Lift, have style, be well groomed etc.

A man is either what the hot woman is looking for...or he isn't. And even if he is there are countless ways to blow it even after you get on the radar screen because there are always more men expressing interest in the hottest girls.

But even the hottest girls would rather have 100% success with the man of her choice as a general rule. If you are the man of her choice you get some leeway other guys don't get.

My point is be the man of a hot woman's choice. Then the hot girl shuts down the other men as she isn't interested in them because she is interested in you. This is similar to @Desdinova and his High Score Theory.

 

[Poon King]

Because like I've been saying for months now....there ARE NO RULES....just individuals.

- The "rules" and the "techniques" never and will never get the girl.

- It's the individual that gets the girl.

- That individual has ups and downs, highs and lows, good points and bad points.

It's why I continue to RAIL against the keyboard warrior, bullshyt, one-dimensional, women are all X and will all do Y theories on here. It's all bullshyt.

In real life, there is no Alpha or Beta. You have guys who have characteristics of both depending on the given day or the given circumstances. To succeed in anything in life, sometimes you have to Alpha and sometimes you have to be Beta. NOBODY is either or.

This might be true in Disneyland, but not in the real world. Its ignorant and naive to act like patterns don't exist when it comes to people.

• There is a reason 100% of rich men can get attractive sexual partners.
• There is a reason why some men have slept with hundreds of women while others stay virgins well into their 40's.
• There is a reason you don't see fat pigs in Playboy Magazine.
• There is a reason why homeless men are not dating hot female celebrities.

Men who want to pretend there are no patterns and its all "individual" are destine for failure. Everyone needs to WAKE UP and stop thinking feel good "everyone is equal" propaganda you tell small children will get you results in the real world. At some point you need to grow up and face reality.

 

[Tenacity]

This might be true in Disneyland, but not in the real world. Its ignorant and naive to act like patterns don't exist when it comes to people.

• There is a reason 100% of rich men can get attractive sexual partners.
• There is a reason why some men have slept with hundreds of women while others stay virgins well into their 40's.
• There is a reason you don't see fat pigs in Playboy Magazine.
• There is a reason why homeless men are not dating hot female celebrities.

Men who want to pretend there are no patterns and its all "individual" are destine for failure. Everyone needs to WAKE UP and stop thinking feel good "everyone is equal" propaganda you tell small children will get you results in the real world. At some point you need to grow up and face reality.

I don't believe SHYT you say until post a pic of you and a plate.

For example, it's NYE, what you doing tonight Poon King? Tenacity has 4 women that want to chill tonight but I'm just spending my time with only 1 of them.

I can post pics tomorrow afternoon through a photobucket link of my night tonight, you care to do the same? I mean come on, you're the King of Poon, you live in the "real world", and you are banging chicks left and right because you're an ALPHA MALE.....so producing pics of your NYE shouldn't be hard right?

(waits for Poon King to respond with a bullshyt response about why he won't/can't post pics)

 

[zekko]

.In one case the guy literally turned up at the girls door crying after hearing she slept with someone else and proceeded to get comforted by her as she told him she just "wasn't ready for a relationship"

I would never recommend this, just because I have too much self respect. But I think sometimes this kind of persistence can pay off because it makes the girls feel something. Remember, they teach that women are emotional creatures. I think it falls under the "Give her an emotional ride" category.

Of course, PUAs will always dismiss any sort of beta "success" by simply saying it doesn't count. Because they're betas, after all.

 

[Tenacity]

Of course, PUAs will always dismiss any sort of beta "success" by simply saying it doesn't count. Because they're betas, after all.

I 100% agree. I just don't get how guys like the King of Poon his sidekicks Deesade and BeTheChange can sit up here and promote this one-dimensional....only be ALPHA....bullshyt.

Nobody is 100% alpha and successful in life. Being 100% alpha gets you nowhere but in prison, because you think you can literally walk the fvck around all day long, without being accountable to anybody or anything. That's bullshyt.

Donald Trump isn't 100% alpha. The man made his fortune in business, which means he has customers, which means he has to SERVE those customers (which is beta) in order to succeed. Now of course he has to lay the vision and blueprint for his business (which is alpha) as well as lead/inspire his employees, vendors, and creditors (which is alpha), but Trump isn't 100% alpha.....NOBODY that succeeds in life is.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

The red pill is a guide not the ten commandments. Everyone is going to apply it differently to their lives with different results.
Maybe some women value commitment, love, loyalty and security more than a high SMV redpill man.
Maybe NAWALT.

 

[ubercat]

There s certainly a middle ground and it ebbs and flows. I paid for a short break over Xmas for us. My girlfriend bought me a watch yesterday and is coming around tomorrow to help me with house cleaning. Same day referred to silly men in text. I replied ...Who built the civilization u live in.

U don't need to be Alpha all the time..Just when it counts.

 

[raider87]

But I think sometimes this kind of persistence can pay off because it makes the girls feel something.

I once reverse charge called a girl about 10 times in a row. She finally answered and told me to f*ck off. The next day she showed up at my work dressed to impress. It's bizarre but women like to feel desired, so that afc stuff can actually work sometimes I think.

 

[devilkingx2]

I would never recommend this, just because I have too much self respect. But I think sometimes this kind of persistence can pay off because it makes the girls feel something. Remember, they teach that women are emotional creatures. I think it falls under the "Give her an emotional ride" category.

Of course, PUAs will always dismiss any sort of beta "success" by simply saying it doesn't count. Because they're betas, after all.

i think it's simple, as @Tenacity is always saying there are many types of women out there

however most PUA and red pill stuff is essentially focused on picking up a 22 year old HB9 (which is probably because all the other types of girls are either much easier to get or much less desirable in the first place)

however if you want say, a girl who's like an HB6 nerd who spends most of her day on tumblr, the game would be completely different and what works would be way different

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Men who want to pretend there are no patterns and its all "individual" are destine for failure. Everyone needs to WAKE UP and stop thinking feel good "everyone is equal" propaganda you tell small children will get you results in the real world. At some point you need to grow up and face reality.

Tenacity does have a good point. What works for me may not work for you. There are patterns, yes. But there isn't one or two or 3 specific methods that will work for all women. People have to realize to exist at the core of their very being. Being NATURAL. This is why Pook stressed nature's importance so much. Allow me to explain:

Let's say there are 3 people, 2 men and one woman. Both men look very much the same, have the same style, same hobbies, career, etc. The only difference is that Man A is trying to get the girl through behavior learnt from tips and tricks here on SoSuave, whereas Man B does these same tips and tricks naturally without giving much thought to them. The woman will gravitate more towards Man B and he will get the woman if he so desires. Why? Because that is who he is. As said in the movie Inception, "True inspiration is impossible to fake". Why is this the case though if Man A and Man B are still almost exact replicas including their actions? It will be the subtle things such as gait, your mannerisms, your voice/how you say something, your 'vibe', etc. The only way to fake all of these things is to actually become it, in which case you aren't really faking anymore.

Pook described this as well. Attraction is not voluntary for most people, it is not something you can logically feel towards someone ("logically feel"? That doesn't even make sense!), you can't force someone to be attracted to you. It is something inherent and instinctual; natural. If a man were to be completely natural with himself rather than calculating, a woman would find him to be more attractive than his competitors because attraction occurs naturally. This is why it comes down to individual. Desirable males are typically the most masculine of males (Pook stressed masculinity because it is something naturally occurring within us). They often share similar traits with one another and commit the same actions. The tips here mimic the actions of what a masculine (aka desirable) male would do. And here is the truth in Tenacity's post: traits/actions that are able to define your masculinity/true nature is not the same as traits/actions is able to define my masculinity/true nature, or anyone else's for that matter. Everyone is different, what is natural for me may not be natural for you or for someone else.

Pardon me if I sucked at explaining. It's pretty hard to explain nature of the sexes.

 

[zekko]

Nobody is 100% alpha and successful in life. Being 100% alpha gets you nowhere but in prison, because you think you can literally walk the fvck around all day long, without being accountable to anybody or anything.

I read one of those "How to be an alpha male" books. I can't even remember the name of the guy who wrote it, there have been so many books on alpha males. But he recommended that a man be about 70% masculine, 30% feminine. Women respond to the masculine, but his point was you can take things too far in one direction, and become unrelatable.

Maybe NAWALT.

The PUAs came up with the acronym NAWALT just so that if there was a situation that didn't fit their description of the world, they could dismiss it with NAWALT. Maybe the girl didn't respond correctly, but it doesn't "count".

Neil Strauss is one of the biggest names in the community, but when he found the girl he really wanted, she didn't respond to his PUA tactics. Mystery claimed he had a foolproof way of triggering women's attraction, but he also said that if women didn't respond to it, you should move on and try it on the next one. Doesn't sound very foolproof, does it?

Tenacity does have a good point. What works for me may not work for you. There are patterns, yes. But there isn't one or two or 3 specific methods that will work for all women. People have to realize to exist at the core of their very being. Being NATURAL

Even if a guy doesn't do everything right, the fact that he is being authentic can be attractive in itself. PUAs even tell you that being congruent and authentic is attractive. A guy being authentic might beat a guy trying to fake it by using PUA tactics or trying to mimic someone else's idea of being "alpha".

Sure, there are tendencies. But the type of women that I am most interested in are not the women who are going to fall for "bad boy" tactics. I want quality and exceptional women. Women have their individual differences, just like men do. They don't all necessarily respond to the same thing.

I'm not advocating supplicating, beta behavior though. Men are supposed to be strong. Men in my day were raised to be masculine. Being a man is good. That certainly doesn't mean you have to be an @sshole though.

 

[zekko]

There's a quality woman out there that won't fall for the "bad boy". That makes you feel more secure in your relationship.

I'm not concerned about my relationship. Women aren't perfect, and neither are men for that matter. If she starts to behave badly, I'll find some other girl. Relationships have shelf lives. Women are replaceable. I don't expect my girl to be perfect. But if you don't think there are degrees, you are mistaken. Some women are slvttier than others, for example.

I guess you are trying to say it's impossible for a woman to be attracted to me and my personality, they only go for guys with deesade's personality. Is that what you want to hear? Lol.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

You and I are men.

We may differ in so much as we have different tastes, lifestyles, hobbies, and the like. But, we have a certain understanding of each other based on sex/gender. That's how we can even communicate like we do on this website.

Why do so many men think women are any different? Why do you think that women aren't doing what you and I are doing right now?

I think that comes down to the old myth of women being some kind of magical entity that can never really be understood. It's men wanting to add some sort of fantasy and magic to seduction. It's blue-pill, and doesn't represent any sort of experience that I've had in my life.

I started to notice a lot of these patterns at just 20 years old without ever having known anything about the manosphere. It really isn't that difficult, and must take a hell of a lot of self-delusion not to.

That is what I mean. We as MEN are the same (with maybe slight variations), but we as PEOPLE are different. The same goes for women I suppose.

If everyone were being natural, men would be following their own sexual strategies rather than compromising them in favour of a woman's - believing that in doing so, the woman's strategy will encompass their own.

If each man were really being natural, this forum would lose 90% of it's content. Most threads come down to the exact same problem: you were following her strategy, not yours. Or, you weren't being natural.

Why is that? Either fear or laziness.

This explanation sounds better than mine

 

[Tenacity]

I actually think that the thing that gets women really hooked is a mixture of alpha and beta traits.

This is what I've been saying to you for months, but you have dismissed it every single time saying that I'm just in Disneyland, a beta f.aggot, and a white knight.

I have been saying that the real world isn't one-dimensional, with people being ANY one of the extreme cartoon characters (Alpha, Beta, Red Pill, Blue Pill, AFC, PUA, DJ) that's promoted in the Manosphere, and that the SUCCESSFUL man is a combination of all of the cartoon characters.

Why?

Because there's a time to be quote, unquote "Alpha" and a time to be quote, unquote "Beta". You can't just be "Alpha" all damn day, people will think you are a complete/utter jack a.ss and don't want to be around you. You can't just be "Beta" all damn day, cause people will think you are a push-over.

It's all about balance. I have been SAYING this shyt to you, Poon King, and BeTheChange for damn near 7 months and every time I said it........you dismissed it......but I'm glad you are finally agreeing with me.

Finally, this applies to women as well. Women aren't fvcking one dimensional, with these "theories" you guys push out that supposedly applies to EVERY SINGLE WOMAN. It's bullshyt. Women have a lot of problems, but they also bring to the table some good benefits as well. Men have a lot of problems, but we also bring to the table some good benefits as well. What it's about is BALANCING the good/bad, to make something workable for you and for your woman.

This is what I had to learn as it was the basis of my anger issues, I kept trying to find perfection, there's no perfection. Every woman has something wrong with her that's going to bug you at some point, instead of NEXTING everybody thinking that the "next woman" is going to be perfect, it might be in your best interest (if you can work through the problem) to try to make it work with the woman you have. I know that's some Disneyland shyt, but unfortunately, it's also how people make relationships work in the REAL WORLD. Relationships don't just work, you make them work.

 

[BeTheChange]

I had my own experiences, and weighed them up. I have considerably more experience since then, and I have done much reading.

Nothing has changed. The only people that push that frame are women and desperate provider men.

I'm not going to accept your gay frame, because I have no need. If what you reckon was the way things are, I would say "okay, but that isn't my thing".

As it stands, you are well out of touch. And my frame is correct, but you aren't accepting it.

This. Seems like a lot of the naysayers simply want to deny reality and substitute it with their own ideas of the way things "should be", even if their beliefs have been proven to be flawed, restricted in scope because of the inherent limitations in their perspective (i.e any female poster) or just plain retarded and often the primary determinant for their lack of success with women.

Ego investment is a strong thing.

Some of us here know what is and isn't ridiculous through experience, but we have a recent phenomena of basic (practically irrefutable) red pill concepts being challenged on a daily basis. I question the motivation of some of these "benign" posters.

Why is it that these sorts of conversations always come down to this sort of argument?

It's like a fig leaf that men hide behind.

There's a quality woman out there that won't fall for the "bad boy". That makes you feel more secure in your relationship.

It's a load of crap. Your woman is a slag. She is "impure". She has indiscretions.

She likely hasn't told you about them, if you consider her "low quality" for having had them.

You are living in Disneyland. Women pick up on that, and they don't ever drop the fourth wall. They pretend to live up to your nonsense.

Indeed. I always make it a habit to come across as completely non judgemental and sexually liberal and it's amazing some of the sh*t these girls will tell you with no hesitation. And these are the same women posters here probably think are "quality". Ok then mate.

I saw a facebook post of a woman, me and my two boys ran a train through a few years back. She's smiling and pregnant with her dutiful boyfriend with the caption "2017 is going to be a big year for us". If only he knew.

 

[Poon King]

Tenacity does have a good point.

Tenacity has never had a "good point".

What works for me may not work for you. There are patterns, yes. But there isn't one or two or 3 specific methods that will work for all women. People have to realize to exist at the core of their very being. Being NATURAL. This is why Pook stressed nature's importance so much. Allow me to explain:

Let's say there are 3 people, 2 men and one woman. Both men look very much the same, have the same style, same hobbies, career, etc. The only difference is that Man A is trying to get the girl through behavior learnt from tips and tricks here on SoSuave, whereas Man B does these same tips and tricks naturally without giving much thought to them. The woman will gravitate more towards Man B and he will get the woman if he so desires. Why? Because that is who he is. As said in the movie Inception, "True inspiration is impossible to fake". Why is this the case though if Man A and Man B are still almost exact replicas including their actions? It will be the subtle things such as gait, your mannerisms, your voice/how you say something, your 'vibe', etc. The only way to fake all of these things is to actually become it, in which case you aren't really faking anymore.

Pook described this as well. Attraction is not voluntary for most people, it is not something you can logically feel towards someone ("logically feel"? That doesn't even make sense!), you can't force someone to be attracted to you. It is something inherent and instinctual; natural. If a man were to be completely natural with himself rather than calculating, a woman would find him to be more attractive than his competitors because attraction occurs naturally. This is why it comes down to individual. Desirable males are typically the most masculine of males (Pook stressed masculinity because it is something naturally occurring within us). They often share similar traits with one another and commit the same actions. The tips here mimic the actions of what a masculine (aka desirable) male would do. And here is the truth in Tenacity's post: traits/actions that are able to define your masculinity/true nature is not the same as traits/actions is able to define my masculinity/true nature, or anyone else's for that matter. Everyone is different, what is natural for me may not be natural for you or for someone else.

Pardon me if I sucked at explaining. It's pretty hard to explain nature of the sexes.

Here is the bottom line:

Just like most men find hot sexy bodies attractive.. most women find "alpha traits" attractive. End of story.

Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure. There are people born with 6 fingers on each hand too. I don't talk about the weirdos and freaks.. I'm talking about the majority.

Men who want to pretend each individual person is DRAMATICALLY different from every other person are morons and destine to fail.

 

[TheFixer14]

Tenacity has never had a "good point".

I agree with this.

Here is the bottom line:

Just like most men find hot sexy bodies attractive.. most women find "alpha traits" attractive. End of story.

Are there exceptions to the rule? Sure. There are people born with 6 fingers on each hand too. I don't talk about the weirdos and freaks.. I'm talking about the majority.

Men who want to pretend each individual person is DRAMATICALLY different from every other person are morons and destine to fail.

I agree with this too. While everyone is different, we are all more similar than we are different. For example, it's fair to say that the majority of men want to **** Scarlett Johannsson right? There might be a few weirdos out there that don't find her attractive, but the majority of men do. Same with how the majority of women want to **** Brad Pitt. There might be some weirdo women who don't dig him. But the majority of women too.

Everyone has their own unique traits, but a lot of people respond to the same thing.

 

[Ratiocinative]

I've seen this happen too. Hottest woman in my MMA gym is dating the most beta guy there. Very scrawny, submissive, unsure of himself. From what I know they help run a BJJ club at the state university, so circumstance probably played a big role.

It's quite possible he behaves differently when it's just the two of them than he does around me, but in general I think that the best explanation is women make irrational and emotion decisions. Why do some women date and have kids with thugs? Why do some women stay with abusers? Why do some women date married men? Same reason some women date weak men.

I remind myself of this everytime I meet women. Self improvement is important and every guy should strive to be the best he can, but being the best choice doesn't automatically mean she'll want you. The weak beta guy can sometimes end up with a great women simply by being social and being in the right place at the right time.

Being a strong masculine male is great, but getting out there and meeting women is still going to be the biggest factor for success because women make irrational emotion decisions all the time.

Also, being in a relationship with a great woman right now doesn't mean the relationship will be great 10 years from now. You can get lucky and score a few dates with a great woman, but you're not going to get lucky and have a great LTR with a woman.